Allopathic overrated

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Hi,
Is the medicine today becoming a bit too radical & unnecessary? There have been some great innovations over the years, but have these innovations not become abused? We rely so much on drugs being manufactured by these billion dollar companies as well as going under surgery. Are these mechanisms not a bit radical. Clearly it is more radical then telling a patient something simple such as walking 10,000 steps everyday and informing them of nutrition & exercise to treat diabetes. After all, most diseases come from an excess of certain type of modalities such as over eating, too much sugar, too little or even zero physical activity.

We give patients all these pills for certain type of diseases which arguably can be treated without using these innovative methods. One might ask why won't a doctor just tell a patient to walk 10,000 steps and cut back on the sugar as opposed to giving the patient some pills to treat diabetes type II. Is walking 10,000 steps more radical than a surgeon cutting your chest open?

Why don't we use certain remedies that have been working for more than 2,000 years with herbs, honey, cinnamon, and natural ingredients as opposed to constantly just giving patients pills to keep the disease at bay, yet still existing. A man had severe bronchitis and he went to many doctors and they gave him pills but nothing worked. Then he reads a book on medicine almost more than 800 years ago by some muslim author who recommends 2 teaspoons of honey, a teaspoon of tumeric and half a teaspoon of cinnamon and it cured his bronchitis. I understand that its a remedy but when have remedies become so far fetched? Are remedies not another form of medicine? I have noticed that the P. companies have such a major influence over medicine to such a degree that we continue to research in convoluted methods that we forget to just look at the basics.

I'm a bit upset that doctors TODAY lack a certain type of creativity because they are constantly being drilled by supervisors and P. companies to practice medicine a certain way, and who knows maybe this creativity is what we need to treat a lot of these deadly diseases killing so many people every year. Mind you these diseases aren't viral or bacterial, but just diseases like cardiovascular, diabetes, etc.. that I believe can be easily treated with a proper education of more nutritional & wellness as opposed to learning about drugs all the time in medical schools.

Obviously, drugs, antibiotics, have been the greatest tools to civilization but these are becoming so abusive that we aren't even practicing medicine anymore, but rather just a game which is being propelled by certain companies.

Again drugs are great, research is great, to treat diseases such as viral & bacterial like Hep C. but when it comes to basic diseases being stemmed from what goes into our mouth, it doesn't require all these artificially modified "things" to treat a patient suffering from said diseases.

Food for thought, a mini rant nonetheless,

Medicine is vast so let's stop being so obtuse.
-Biotic
 
BioTic said:
Hi,
Why don't we use certain remedies that have been working for more than 2,000 years with herbs, honey, cinnamon, and natural ingredients as opposed to constantly just giving patients pills to keep the disease at bay, yet still existing.
Click to expand...

which brand of honey should I get at the store to cure diabetes, hepatitis, HIV?
 
This isn't as stupid as it sounds at first. After doing some research, I found quite a few anecdotes that really made me re-evaluate my skepticism. For example, it is said that Paul Bunyon was periodically afflicted by episodes of the Cancer, but after once drinking a concoction composed of special herbs and the purest forest honey, he was back felling 'dem big oaks the very next day and never suffered a recurrence. Cured his Consumption too, apparently.
 
Lifestyle modification is always discussed. The next patient I see that changes their lifestyle based on a doctor's recommendation will be the first. Or maybe there are people who follow them, get healthy and never follow up?

But yeah enjoy your honey poultice. Just don't bring a lawyer on my doorstep when you realize what you did was dumb and try to blame me
 
There is something to be said about the US performing way more operations per capata compared to other countries. I'm sure we also spend a lot more on medications that have little impact on outcome (i.e. Chemotherapy with maybe 2-3 month survival benefit). Same goes for spending in the six months of life.

while prevention is better than any intervention, we live in a society where people want to live life their way and then come to you with problems that need drugs or surgery to control or cure these conditions.

Finally, there is a strong niche for vodo medicine in the US. So, if that's your thing, there's a market for it
 
BioTic said:
Why don't we use certain remedies that have been working for more than 2,000 years with herbs, honey, cinnamon, and natural ingredients as opposed to constantly just giving patients pills to keep the disease at bay, yet still existing.
Click to expand...
I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain life expectancy was shorter over most of the last 2,000 years. Not sure medicine from that time should be held up as a shining example of what we should be doing today.

Also, OP I'm guessing you've never had "the talk" with a patient that diet and exercise is The Way. People don't just up and change their lives because you tell them their habits are making them sick. Heck, I've had trouble convincing people they're overweight. I had one woman tell me she couldn't possibly be obese (BMI>45) because she "had a waist". And she proceeded to lift up her shirt to make sure I understood what she was talking about.
 
Last edited:
At the end of the day we can't control people and force them to change their lifestyle. When that happens what do you suggest we do?
 
Psai said:
You can't really sense sarcasm on the internet
Click to expand...

If you know how the poster comments on issues, you can get an idea most times. If not, then what you're saying is correct. Then again my comment was meant more as an inside joke.
 
CarlVsCarl said:
Hey man
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hqdefault.jpg
 
lazymed said:
There is something to be said about the US performing way more operations per capata compared to other countries. I'm sure we also spend a lot more on medications that have little impact on outcome (i.e. Chemotherapy with maybe 2-3 month survival benefit). Same goes for spending in the six months of life.

while prevention is better than any intervention, we live in a society where people want to live life their way and then come to you with problems that need drugs or surgery to control or cure these conditions.

Finally, there is a strong niche for vodo medicine in the US. So, if that's your thing, there's a market for it
Click to expand...

By far the greatest expenditure by medicare is after a catastrophic event in a geriatric patient. The vast majority of the time there is absolutely no hope for quality of life after the incident but that doesn't stop hospitals from "doing everything possible to help grandma." It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the American Hospital Association and their lobbying efforts are the primary driver behind the healthcare crisis in this country. They, after all, own a vast collection of Congressional democrats.
 
There's a reason that 400 pound diabetic got that way in the first place, and it's not because he didn't know that McDonald's every day and no exercise is bad for you.
 
BioTic said:
Hi,
Is the medicine today becoming a bit too radical & unnecessary? There have been some great innovations over the years, but have these innovations not become abused? We rely so much on drugs being manufactured by these billion dollar companies as well as going under surgery. Are these mechanisms not a bit radical. Clearly it is more radical then telling a patient something simple such as walking 10,000 steps everyday and informing them of nutrition & exercise to treat diabetes. After all, most diseases come from an excess of certain type of modalities such as over eating, too much sugar, too little or even zero physical activity.

We give patients all these pills for certain type of diseases which arguably can be treated without using these innovative methods. One might ask why won't a doctor just tell a patient to walk 10,000 steps and cut back on the sugar as opposed to giving the patient some pills to treat diabetes type II. Is walking 10,000 steps more radical than a surgeon cutting your chest open?

Why don't we use certain remedies that have been working for more than 2,000 years with herbs, honey, cinnamon, and natural ingredients as opposed to constantly just giving patients pills to keep the disease at bay, yet still existing. A man had severe bronchitis and he went to many doctors and they gave him pills but nothing worked. Then he reads a book on medicine almost more than 800 years ago by some muslim author who recommends 2 teaspoons of honey, a teaspoon of tumeric and half a teaspoon of cinnamon and it cured his bronchitis. I understand that its a remedy but when have remedies become so far fetched? Are remedies not another form of medicine? I have noticed that the P. companies have such a major influence over medicine to such a degree that we continue to research in convoluted methods that we forget to just look at the basics.

I'm a bit upset that doctors TODAY lack a certain type of creativity because they are constantly being drilled by supervisors and P. companies to practice medicine a certain way, and who knows maybe this creativity is what we need to treat a lot of these deadly diseases killing so many people every year. Mind you these diseases aren't viral or bacterial, but just diseases like cardiovascular, diabetes, etc.. that I believe can be easily treated with a proper education of more nutritional & wellness as opposed to learning about drugs all the time in medical schools.

Obviously, drugs, antibiotics, have been the greatest tools to civilization but these are becoming so abusive that we aren't even practicing medicine anymore, but rather just a game which is being propelled by certain companies.

Again drugs are great, research is great, to treat diseases such as viral & bacterial like Hep C. but when it comes to basic diseases being stemmed from what goes into our mouth, it doesn't require all these artificially modified "things" to treat a patient suffering from said diseases.

Food for thought, a mini rant nonetheless,

Medicine is vast so let's stop being so obtuse.
-Biotic
Click to expand...

Before I write a longer response to you, let me ask you a few questions to clarify your understanding.

1) Are you a physician, a medical student, or something else?
2) Do you understand how T2DM works and why we "give pills" for it?
3) Do you know how effective "telling patients to change their lifestyle" is and what the outcome of that type of intervention is in the majority of cases?
4) When you say most diseases, do you really mean "most diseases" literally or do you mean the diseases that are most commonly thought of?
5) Do you know why that surgeon might be "cutting your chest open"?
6) Do you know why medicine is "practiced a certain way"?
7) Do you really think all cardiovascular disease can really be cured by nutrition and wellness alone?

I ask these questions seriously and I ask you to answer them seriously so that I might be able to better understand your position here.
 
smokn said:
Pre-dental's trolling allo boards now? Nice.
Click to expand...

In that case let me put it in a context OP might understand: my dentist has been telling me to floss for the past 10 years, I know that flossing helps prevent future problems/complications, my dentist asks me about flossing and gives me a lecture about it every single time I go in for a cleaning. I have never flossed. Why? Because I never got in the habit of doing it and lifestyle change is extremely difficult. It's not that I don't know that flossing is beneficial. I have 3 or 4 fillings as a result. Once the damage is done you have to deal with it.
 
MeatTornado said:
In that case let me put it in a context OP might understand: my dentist has been telling me to floss for the past 10 years, I know that flossing helps prevent future problems/complications, my dentist asks me about flossing and gives me a lecture about it every single time I go in for a cleaning. I have never flossed. Why? Because I never got in the habit of doing it and lifestyle change is extremely difficult. It's not that I don't know that flossing is beneficial. I have 3 or 4 fillings as a result. Once the damage is done you have to deal with it.
Click to expand...
Also it hurts and bleeds like a MF for a few weeks, further discouraging people.
 
When a natural remedy is proven safe and effective, it becomes a part of mainstream medicine. Physicians don't elect not to use your 2,000-year-old honey concoction because of some bias against natural cures. They don't prescribe it because in its 2 millennia of existence, no one has actually proved that it works (if I'm wrong about this, feel free to provide a reference). On the other hand, ancient willow bark concoctions turned out to actually have some basis, and we use aspirin to this day as a result.
 
Because for >2000 years, we didn't have antibiotics, statins, beta blockers, ACE inhibitors, serotonin uptake inhibitors, tyrosine kinase inhibitors, anti-coagulants or monoclonal antibodies. To name a few.


Radon, belladonna and arsenic are natural too.

Getting bored in your respawn, Batman?
Why don't we use certain remedies that have been working for more than 2,000 years with herbs, honey, cinnamon, and natural ingredients as opposed to constantly just giving patients pills to keep the disease at bay, yet still existing.
 
Terry Toma said:
When a natural remedy is proven safe and effective, it becomes a part of mainstream medicine. Physicians don't elect not to use your 2,000-year-old honey concoction because of some bias against natural cures. They don't prescribe it because in its 2 millennia of existence, no one has actually proved that it works (if I'm wrong about this, feel free to provide a reference). On the other hand, ancient willow bark concoctions turned out to actually have some basis, and we use aspirin to this day as a result.
Click to expand...

In no way do I support or agree with OP, but there is some research out there to suggest honey may be more effective than certain antibiotics in vitro: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24772182

I don't believe these studies have been done in vivo though.
 
An example of how modern medicine has improved our lives... the case of FDR (one of our greatest presidents):
- He had paralytic polio, a disease now eradicated in the US because of a vaccine created and distributed by a pharmaceutical company
- He died while in office in 1945 (only 70 years ago) at the age of 63 of a hemorrhagic stroke due to uncontrolled hypertension and had decompensated heart failure; at the time doctors prescribed fresh air and bedrest. Nowadays he would have been taken to the hospital, gotten IV diuresis and one of several IV blood pressure medications to prevent his hemorrhagic stroke. He would have also been on one or several blood pressure meds, a diuretic, a beta blocker, an ACE inhibitor (and probably a few others) for years and he would've survived through his 4th term and likely well into his 70s or even 80s.
 
MeatTornado said:
An example of how modern medicine has improved our lives... the case of FDR (one of our greatest presidents):
- He had paralytic polio, a disease now eradicated in the US because of a vaccine created and distributed by a pharmaceutical company
- He died while in office in 1945 (only 70 years ago) at the age of 63 of a hemorrhagic stroke due to uncontrolled hypertension and had decompensated heart failure; at the time doctors prescribed fresh air and bedrest. Nowadays he would have been taken to the hospital, gotten IV diuresis and one of several IV blood pressure medications to prevent his hemorrhagic stroke. He would have also been on one or several blood pressure meds, a diuretic, a beta blocker, an ACE inhibitor (and probably a few others) for years and he would've survived through his 4th term and likely well into his 70s or even 80s.
Click to expand...

he should have just alkalinized his blood
 
MeatTornado said:
An example of how modern medicine has improved our lives... the case of FDR (one of our greatest presidents):
- He had paralytic polio, a disease now eradicated in the US because of a vaccine created and distributed by a pharmaceutical company
- He died while in office in 1945 (only 70 years ago) at the age of 63 of a hemorrhagic stroke due to uncontrolled hypertension and had decompensated heart failure; at the time doctors prescribed fresh air and bedrest. Nowadays he would have been taken to the hospital, gotten IV diuresis and one of several IV blood pressure medications to prevent his hemorrhagic stroke. He would have also been on one or several blood pressure meds, a diuretic, a beta blocker, an ACE inhibitor (and probably a few others) for years and he would've survived through his 4th term and likely well into his 70s or even 80s.
Click to expand...

True, but whether he (or anyone) would have actually been better off by having to endure lingering into extreme old age is an open question.
 
Brahnold Bloodaxe said:
True, but whether he (or anyone) would have actually been better off by having to endure lingering into extreme old age is an open question.
Click to expand...

I would hardly call 64 extreme old age...

I think the country is better off when a wildly popular president serves his full term rather than an unelected vice president.
 
MeatTornado said:
I would hardly call 64 extreme old age...

I think the country is better off when a wildly popular president serves his full term rather than an unelected vice president.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, but my point was clearly about the general idea of living longer than people have "naturally" tended to, rather than the optimal political environment of the WWII era United States.

I don't think 64 is necessarily extremely old if you're in good health, but if you're relying on a plethora of "allopathic" interventions to keep you alive by then, it may or may not behoove you to call it quits at some point. I'd say by the time you're spending a large part of your daily energy on the basic effort of "not dying," it's probably not worth it. As for those living into their 80's, I guess it's fine if you're in perfect health, but you better have a strong taste for religion cause what else is there to look forward to...
 
Brahnold Bloodaxe said:
Well yeah, but my point was clearly about the general idea of living longer than people have "naturally" tended to, rather than the optimal political environment of the WWII era United States.

I don't think 64 is necessarily extremely old if you're in good health, but if you're relying on a plethora of "allopathic" interventions to keep you alive by then, it may or may not behoove you to call it quits at some point. I'd say by the time you're spending a large part of your daily energy on the basic effort of "not dying," it's probably not worth it. As for those living into their 80's, I guess it's fine if you're in perfect health, but you better have a strong taste for religion cause what else is there to look forward to...
Click to expand...

n=1, but idc how terrible of health I'm in, it behooves me to stay alive as long as I can at least watch and comprehend TV. If I can't do that, then yeah I'm done here. But otherwise? Lemme watch Netflix til I die.
 
ButterButter said:
I always thought it was thyme for HIV, but maybe I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

I think you're getting it confused with the association between honey and HIV infected Ashkenazi Jews and developing a THYMOMA. Common mistake. Honey is always the answer.


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I think that heart failure patients could really benefit from this herb called foxglove . . . Oh wait . . .

Seriously, though: there are herbs that work and those herbs are what we make medicine from.

There are some specific eastern medicine practices that have shown some promise in double blind controlled trials (such as acupuncture with trials using sham acupuncture), but for the most part "alternative medicine" is garbage.
 
Before you prescribe healthy diet you have to tell them where to find healthy food. Not that easy. I think the less you eat out the healthier your diet will be..
 
Considering this thread was started by a Pre-med who just two months ago was considering Anesthesiology, I'm going to deem OP an unintentional troll. Good luck pursuing a highly "allopathic" specialty - centered on drugs. Unless you are looking anesthetize people with adjustments.
 
sloop said:
I think that heart failure patients could really benefit from this herb called foxglove . . . Oh wait . . .

Seriously, though: there are herbs that work and those herbs are what we make medicine from.

There are some specific eastern medicine practices that have shown some promise in double blind controlled trials (such as acupuncture with trials using sham acupuncture), but for the most part "alternative medicine" is garbage.
Click to expand...

Sort of off topic but acupuncture is amazing. Maybe I got placebo'd to hell but I had chronic migraines that I tried everything for, and after acupuncture I've been migraine free for 5 years now.

Yeah n=1, and part of me still feels like its voodoo (I only went to appease my wife), but the pain seriously had me borderline suicidal at times and I couldn't care less how it worked.
 
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