Allopathic schools that favor non-trads with strong post-bacc

[Nasem]

I am trying to compile a list of 10 to 12 MD schools to apply to... ~ my instate schools will be MSUCHM, Wayne State, and Oakland (new for 2010 starting year)

Just to make myself clear, I am not applying this year, but waiting until June of 2009, this will be the first year I apply.

A little history about myself, I graduated in 2004 as a double major in Computer Science & Mathematics, overall GPA 3.01, science about 3.13-ish.
Been doing post-bacc since spring of 2007 while working a fulltime job, I have accumulated about 30 credits of post-bacc so far (straight 4.0), by time I apply next year, I'll have approx 45 credits of post-bacc with (estimated) post-bacc GPA of about 3.8-4.0
Unfortunately, no matter how well you do on your post-bacc, as you all know, it is VERY difficult to raise the undergrad GPA, even with those 45 credits; my overall will be 3.2-ish with a 3.4-ish science

I understand that all schools look for high achieving students with stellar GPAs / MCATs.... But have anyone heard (even a rumor) about specific schools that favor non-trads with strong post-bacc performances.... Of course I haven't taken the MCATS yet and won’t until July of 2009, but let’s just assume I'll end up with a score of 30

My plan is to apply to about 10-12 DO & 10-12 MD, I've already composed a list of DO schools, I just need a little help with MD schools

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[fireflygirl]

I am trying to compile a list of 10 to 12 MD schools to apply to... ~ my instate schools will be MSUCHM, Wayne State, and Oakland (new for 2010 starting year)

Just to make myself clear, I am not applying this year, but waiting until June of 2009, this will be the first year I apply.

A little history about myself, I graduated in 2004 as a double major in Computer Science & Mathematics, overall GPA 3.01, science about 3.13-ish.
Been doing post-bacc since spring of 2007 while working a fulltime job, I have accumulated about 30 credits of post-bacc so far (straight 4.0), by time I apply next year, I'll have approx 45 credits of post-bacc with (estimated) post-bacc GPA of about 3.8-4.0
Unfortunately, no matter how well you do on your post-bacc, as you all know, it is VERY difficult to raise the undergrad GPA, even with those 45 credits; my overall will be 3.2-ish with a 3.4-ish science

I understand that all schools look for high achieving students with stellar GPAs / MCATs.... But have anyone heard (even a rumor) about specific schools that favor non-trads with strong post-bacc performances.... Of course I haven't taken the MCATS yet and won’t until July of 2009, but let’s just assume I'll end up with a score of 30

My plan is to apply to about 10-12 DO & 10-12 MD, I've already composed a list of DO schools, I just need a little help with MD schools

I have a very good friend that had similar stats, perhaps a slightly higher BCPM, but rocked her MCAT and post-bac and got interviews at some great places including UMich (where she is now going), Pitt, Jefferson, Emory, Mt. Sinai. Eventually she ended up getting into UMich, Pitt, and Emory. For her however, she was big into research and had a strong research background, so that did help her. Just something to keep in mind if you are interested in applying to big research schools.

Other schools, in my own experience that like non-trads with strong post-bac experiences include Pitt, Drexel & GW (note that these schools though get some of the most applications of all schools so it can get fairly competitive), Jefferson, Temple, NYMC, and Virginia Commenwealth. Those are the few that I can think off the top of my head. Might want to check out the MSAR to compare stats or see if you can find some other school ideas.

 

[thoffen]

What state are you a resident of? It makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Nasem]

Im from Michigan

thank you fireflygirl, i'll defenetly look into that list,
and no, I am not into research, and thats why I am not putting U of Mich in my list, I don't think there is a way I'll get into that school with a 3.2 and 30.... but the other schools on your list seem like a pretty good choice

 

[fireflygirl]

Im from Michigan

thank you fireflygirl, i'll defenetly look into that list,
and no, I am not into research, and thats why I am not putting U of Mich in my list, I don't think there is a way I'll get into that school with a 3.2 and 30.... but the other schools on your list seem like a pretty good choice

so then what about michigan state???

 

[Nasem]

so then what about michigan state???

Oh defenetly, both MSUCHM and MSUCOM are on my list, I mentioned it in the first line of my initial thread...

The only MD schools I have on my list so far are my michigan schools ~ Wayne state, MSUCHM, and the new Oakland (brand new class opening for 2010 cycle)

 

[QofQuimica]

No school is going to "favor" nontrads with strong post bacs, particularly when there are plenty of nontrads with excellent UG records. Assuming you have a competitive MCAT score, I think many schools will give you a fighting chance if you at least have a 3.0 cum and a stellar post bac record (which you do). That's really all you can ask for.

It's pretty tough to give you many specific school suggestions without an MCAT score. That being said, if you are a MI resident, you should definitely apply to all the MI schools (including U Mich), and maybe to some of the schools in surrounding states (IN, OH, WI) as well. IMO, it is a bit short-sighted to automatically cross U Mich off the list. First, you do not have to be a future physician scientist to go to U Mich; they have excellent clinical training there as well. Second, you have no way to predict what you are going to make on the MCAT right now. Third, I found U Mich to be very nontrad-friendly, actually. They will even give you telephone counseling on how to increase your competitiveness if you're interested.

 

[Nasem]

you know what, now that I think about it, applying to U of Mich woun't cost me anything, its like 45 minutes away from where I live.... I dunno what I was thinking, thank you Q

The only thing that scares the crap out of me is the MCAT verbal, English is the 4th language I had to learn (started learning it when I was 13, before that, I spoke German, Arabic, and Chaldean) and I am 26 now.... I am not making excuses, I actually think my english is good, but my reading is more on the slower side, and no matter how many books I take and read, it just doesn't seem to speed me up a whole lot

 

[njbmd]

you know what, now that I think about it, applying to U of Mich woun't cost me anything, its like 45 minutes away from where I live.... I dunno what I was thinking, thank you Q

The only thing that scares the crap out of me is the MCAT verbal, English is the 4th language I had to learn (started learning it when I was 13, before that, I spoke German, Arabic, and Chaldean) and I am 26 now.... I am not making excuses, I actually think my english is good, but my reading is more on the slower side, and no matter how many books I take and read, it just doesn't seem to speed me up a whole lot

Reading slow is not much of a problem as long as your comprehension is good. You can take some courses and increase your speed but if this comes at the expense of comprehension you are better off going slow. Many people feel "pressured" to speed up but there is only so far that most people (without specific speed reading coursework) can do without sacrificing comprehension.

Most non-native English speaker have far better comprehension than folks who are native English speakers as comprehension is the major part of the language-learning experience. Rather than focusing on your reading speed which isn't tested on the Medical College Admission Test, focus on your comprehension which is tested and of which you have a slight advantage if your english skill are good. Your experience with MCAT is largely due to how you mentally approach the test. Don't approach it with any negatives that are likely not there for you especially if you learned three languages prior to learning English. You have a plus here and not a minus.

 

[Law2Doc]

Reading slow is not much of a problem as long as your comprehension is good. You can take some courses and increase your speed but if this comes at the expense of comprehension you are better off going slow. Many people feel "pressured" to speed up but there is only so far that most people (without specific speed reading coursework) can do without sacrificing comprehension.

I don't know if I agree with this. There are many times in med school when reading slow is a big impediment, and anything you can do to get yourself "up to speed" is going to be worth it. The Step exam is a bit tough to get through if you don't read fast. And then when you get to third year of med school and have to take shelf exams, they are absurdly timed such that you have to either have astounding reading speed or be really good at skimming to get through. Sure some people get by just looking for key words and phrases, but you lose a few points here and there where they are red herrings. So I would keep up reading and doing whatever you can to increase speed. It matters.

 

[QofQuimica]

I don't know if I agree with this. There are many times in med school when reading slow is a big impediment, and anything you can do to get yourself "up to speed" is going to be worth it. The Step exam is a bit tough to get through if you don't read fast. And then when you get to third year of med school and have to take shelf exams, they are absurdly timed such that you have to either have astounding reading speed or be really good at skimming to get through. Sure some people get by just looking for key words and phrases, but you lose a few points here and there where they are red herrings. So I would keep up reading and doing whatever you can to increase speed. It matters.

Agree with L2D. The best test-takers (and med students) are people who can both read quickly *and* comprehend what they're reading. It's also helpful if you are adaptable enough to try new strategies for different subjects. The skills needed for learning anatomy are not the same as the skills needed for learning physiology, just as learning biology is not like learning physics. There is definitely some trial and error that comes into play here.

The good news is that reading comprehension and speed are both skills that can be improved with practice. Nasem, you have plenty of time between now and next summer to work on your reading skills if you feel that this is a weaker area for you. I'm glad you're going to add U Mich to your list--you should consider taking advantage of their app counseling service too if you haven't already. They'll flat-out tell you what they think you should do to increase your competitiveness. You don't even have to be a Mich. resident; I called them from FL, told them I was interested in applying, and got an appointment to be counseled over the telephone.

 

[thoffen]

Yes, but nothing on the MCAT is going to be difficult to comprehend. The challenge there is remaining interested in the subject. One passage could be a really interesting look at the science of sleep. The next passage could be about 14th century fashion. That's not a bogus example -- it's how it went on my MCAT.

 

[Nasem]

I don't know if I agree with this. There are many times in med school when reading slow is a big impediment, and anything you can do to get yourself "up to speed" is going to be worth it. The Step exam is a bit tough to get through if you don't read fast. And then when you get to third year of med school and have to take shelf exams, they are absurdly timed such that you have to either have astounding reading speed or be really good at skimming to get through. Sure some people get by just looking for key words and phrases, but you lose a few points here and there where they are red herrings. So I would keep up reading and doing whatever you can to increase speed. It matters.

that sounds very intimidating haha

 

[Nasem]

The good news is that reading comprehension and speed are both skills that can be improved with practice. Nasem, you have plenty of time between now and next summer to work on your reading skills if you feel that this is a weaker area for you. I'm glad you're going to add U Mich to your list--you should consider taking advantage of their app counseling service too if you haven't already. They'll flat-out tell you what they think you should do to increase your competitiveness. You don't even have to be a Mich. resident; I called them from FL, told them I was interested in applying, and got an appointment to be counseled over the telephone.

I didn't even know they had such service, I will defenetly get in touch with them and see what I get... I'll post back everything I hear...

One thing I wanna ask you guys is, based on what L2D and Q said, it seems like reading fast (along with good comprehension) is a must have for medical schools... do you guys feel that today, your able to read + comprehend things wayyyy better than when you were pre-meds ...basically, did medical school curriculum indireclty force you guys to improve your reading/comprehension speeds ? Or is thing something your either got it when you start, or you don't

 

[Nasem]

Yes, but nothing on the MCAT is going to be difficult to comprehend. The challenge there is remaining interested in the subject. One passage could be a really interesting look at the science of sleep. The next passage could be about 14th century fashion. That's not a bogus example -- it's how it went on my MCAT.

approx, how many words are there is each essay in the verbal section?

 

[QofQuimica]

I didn't even know they had such service, I will defenetly get in touch with them and see what I get... I'll post back everything I hear...

Yeah, call their admissions office and ask about app counseling. That's what I did four years ago before applying.

One thing I wanna ask you guys is, based on what L2D and Q said, it seems like reading fast (along with good comprehension) is a must have for medical schools... do you guys feel that today, your able to read + comprehend things wayyyy better than when you were pre-meds ...basically, did medical school curriculum indireclty force you guys to improve your reading/comprehension speeds ? Or is thing something your either got it when you start, or you don't

I would say it was a little of both in my case. There is a learning and adjustment process, and even people who are naturally good at tests and coursework will still learn new skills and improve old ones through consistent practice. The long and short of it is that if you do more reading, you will get better at it. Since you will almost certainly spend your first two years in medical school doing a lot of reading, yes, your reading skills will improve due to the med school curriculum *directly* forcing you to improve. At the beginning of first year, I wasn't nearly as efficient at studying as I was at the end of second year, even though my performance in school was uniformly good throughout the two years. What did change was that the expectations kept getting higher, and I had to adjust to that. I remember being a first year and feeling like it was really a lot of work. It made me mad when some second years told me that first year was a breeze compared to second year. Once I was a second year, I told the first years the exact same thing. But you have to understand that to a first year, the load of first year *is* really hard. You'd never be able to handle the second year courseload when you first get to med school. But by the time you get to second year, you're able to handle it.

Don't get yourself too worked up about not being able to keep up in med school, Nasem. Nearly everyone makes it through if they really want to and they put in the time and effort. You don't have to be a genius to do reasonably well in med school, but you do have to work hard. Also, if you do find that you're having trouble, man (or woman) up and ask for help. Med schools invest a lot into the students, and they don't want people to flunk out if it's preventable. You can ask on your interviews what services are available to help students who are having academic difficulty. Some schools offer things like tutoring services, deceleration, repeating a course, or even repeating a year. It's not like you fail one test (or even one class) and then they send you packing. Getting into med school is very hard. But once you get here, they will do everything in their power to ensure that you stay here if you are putting in a sincere effort to get through the curriculum.

 

[thoffen]

approx, how many words are there is each essay in the verbal section?

Gonna have to go to the AAMC for that information.