Alternatives to the beaten path that is Medical School

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Shnurek

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Just wanted to inform pre-meds that there isn't only one pathway to the pursuit of happiness. I am going into Optometry so obviously I am biased but if you want to learn more then feel free to ask.

Optometry

Pros:
1) Scope of practice enlargement almost every year: (http://newsfromaoa.org/2012/03/23/1...ory-of-scope-expansion-into-medical-eye-care/)
2) You can hire a technician to do the classic "1 or 2" thing.
3) Income per hours worked is almost on par with primary care physicians.
4) Ability to do laser surgery in two states, scalpel surgery in Oklahoma.
5) Ability to prescribe oral medications in 47/50 states.
6) Ability to prescribe narcotic pain killers in 43/50 states.
7) Ability to treat glaucoma in 49/50 states.
8) Ability to diagnose and treat many forms of eye disease in all 50 states.
9) Relatively lower cost of schooling compared to Dentistry and Medicine.
10) This profession is best practiced in a more rural/suburban setting. So if you are an urbanophile then this profession will still allow you to sustain yourself but you will not likely excel that much.
11) In some rural areas Optometrists are even hospital Attendings.
12) Ability to get on almost all major medical insurance plans.
13) Only 4 years of post-graduate education with an optional 1 year residency.
14) Ability to do minor surgical procedures such as draining cysts or pulling out eyelashes or irrigating and dilating the tear ducts or removing foreign bodies from the eye.
15) Reimbursement parity with Ophthalmology on Medicare and many private insurances.
16) Optometrists are the same rank as Dentists and Medical Doctors in the military when starting out. Captains usually.

Cons:
1) Commercial encroachment.
2) Constant battle with Ophthalmology. (Good for us because we are winning but a bit stressful)
3) Inability to do LASIK in all 50 states. 1 state we can do PRK.
4) The public doesn't know that we can diagnose and treat a lot of eye diseases and sometimes call us "not real Doctors". But this is usually the case in states such as NY or FL or MA where Optometry is more limited. So if you are willing to move to states with less population density this is a very good profession.
5) Oversaturation in urban areas.
6) Less profit from selling glasses and contacts nowadays so the profession is turning more medical.

Dentistry

Pros:
1) High income per hours worked. On average as high as primary care physicians.
2) Ability to specialize and make per hours worked as much as certain medical specialties.
3) Only 4 years of post-graduate education if willing to work as a General Dentist.
4) 75% of dentists own their own practice.
5) Dental insurance companies are kept in line unlike vision and medical insurance companies.

Cons:
1) High tuition/instrument cost.
2) Some midlevel/commercial encroachment.
3) Have to learn about/deal with teeth but I've talked to many people and you can learn to enjoy it if you do not already.
4) High business overhead.

Podiatry is 4+3 years and is also a good career choice.
Pharmacy is 4 years or 2+4 with 2 of college and is also good but you are not a provider.
Anaesthesiology Assistant is also good but they can only practice in 15 states if I am not mistaken.
Physician Assistant is great.
Nursing --> Nurse Practitioner --> Doctor of Nursing Practice also alternative.
 
I like how you listed 16 pros for optometrists, only 5 for dentists, and then just kinda gave up.

You're in optometry school? Ya don't say...

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11) In some rural areas Optometrists are even hospital Attendings.

May I ask for examples?

I find this hard to believe, considering "hospital" implies there to be at least one MD/DO on staff.
 
if i ever had to choose between optometry and dentistry then dentistry it is. i dont want a career in which there is somebody better trained to do what i do. And there is no chance in hell you are going to be an attending with an optometry degree.
 
Optometry's salary is less than pharmacy and the market is equally as bad if not worse. Furthermore the scope of practice is extremely limited, and frankly optometrists doing LASIK is disconcerting.
 
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This is sort of like nurse practitioners and PAs expanding their scope of practice in primary care (except they are more qualified than optometrists imo). These careers are there to alleviated the strain on the physicians but having these degrees does not make someone a physician.
 
I think this is a good thread because too many kids believe it's medical school or bust when they could be happier doing something else. There are a ton of options out there that are lesser known, so it's good to keep an open mind about these things.
 
I think this is a good thread because too many kids believe it's medical school or bust when they could be happier doing something else. There are a ton of options out there that are lesser known, so it's good to keep an open mind about these things.

I agree
 
The PT/OT route is another alternative to consider. They get a lot of patient contact and are able to work in both an inpatient and outpatient setting, and I hear that the work is extremely satisfying.
 
I think this is a good thread because too many kids believe it's medical school or bust when they could be happier doing something else. There are a ton of options out there that are lesser known, so it's good to keep an open mind about these things.

2 year RN degree and start off making $22/hour. Work for a few years and save up money for an accelerated BSN progam, then work your way up to CRNA school and pull down $100k/year+. 👍
 
2 year RN degree and start off making $22/hour. Work for a few years and save up money for an accelerated BSN progam, then work your way up to CRNA school and pull down $100k/year+. 👍

The market for CRNA's is awul and getting worse. This advice 10 years ago was gold. And the salary is more like 180k+.
 
The market for CRNA's is awul and getting worse. This advice 10 years ago was gold. And the salary is more like 180k+.

The national market? I'd imagine it's like anything else: saturated in certain areas, booming in others.
 
This is sort of like nurse practitioners and PAs expanding their scope of practice in primary care (except they are more qualified than optometrists imo). These careers are there to alleviated the strain on the physicians but having these degrees does not make someone a physician.

RN's take 4 years of college. NP's take 2 years of graduate school after their RN degree.
PA's take 4 years of college and 2 years of graduate school.
Optometrists take 4 years of college and 4 years of graduate school.

I think this is a good thread because too many kids believe it's medical school or bust when they could be happier doing something else. There are a ton of options out there that are lesser known, so it's good to keep an open mind about these things.

Exactly. Its more about being happy in your life rather than joining Medicine for example just for the money and prestige and then hating your life.

May I ask for examples?

I find this hard to believe, considering "hospital" implies there to be at least one MD/DO on staff.

The Joint Commission (the major organization that accredits most of America's hospitals) added Doctors of Optometry to the definition of a Physician in 2009.

Great article: http://www.healio.com/optometry/practice-management/news/print/primary-care-optometry-news/%7Bb0e9e71b-6f50-4d2f-87ab-564eff242723%7D/patients-hospitals-ods-can-benefit-from-hospital-staffprivileges

HospitalF1_400_381_90307.jpg


Here is a guide for Optometrists to get Hospital Priviledges:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNF1XEYbCv38sOWBChb_T0H3UlrM8g&cad=rja

Examples: http://www.bgeyecare.com/doctors.html
"She is an attending Optometrist at Children Memorial Hospital Division of Ophthalmology in Chicago and is working toward her fellowship within the American Academy of Optometry."

http://www.sunyopt.edu/index.php/si...ams/primary_eye_care_ocular_disease_optometry
"There will be 1:1 direct supervision of the resident by an optometry attending at all times."

http://www.ico.edu/fulltimefaculty/item/378-heather-cleod
"Dr. McLeod is an attending optometrist in the Primary Care Service, Urgent Care Service, and Advance Care Service at the Illinois Eye Institute."
 
As a doctor, I want to have the kind of autonomy to make groundbreaking decisions for my patients and treat a wide range of diseases. All the options are limited.
 
Either way, you guys are just another violent midlevel group that are desperately trying to expand out of the reality that your only future employment prospects are working for 15$ an hour at Walmart Optical.

So uncalled for. I'm going back down the pre-med path after several years in an unrelated field, and I think it's wise to keep all options open, but the whole "medicine or nothing" mindset was definitely present when I was in school.
 
So uncalled for. I'm going back down the pre-med path after several years in an unrelated field, and I think it's wise to keep all options open, but the whole "medicine or nothing" mindset was definitely present when I was in school.

It's fine to explore alternative pathways, but to also accept the negative aspects associated with that pathway. The reality is that optometry is over saturated and even if you go down to our optometry forum many optometrists now vocally state that they regret going down that field due to decreased income and autonomy as well as the reality that optometrists are being overproduced.
Furthermore it is true. Optometrists have violently despite the reality that they are not trained and may harm their patients fought for lasik and other laser treatment privileges. It is akin to letting nurses function as autonomous PCP's because they have related training and experience.
 
If you're good at spreadsheets or sales, I hear that McKesson is hiring.
 
It's fine to explore alternative pathways, but to also accept the negative aspects associated with that pathway. The reality is that optometry is over saturated and even if you go down to our optometry forum many optometrists now vocally state that they regret going down that field due to decreased income and autonomy as well as the reality that optometrists are being overproduced.
Furthermore it is true. Optometrists have violently despite the reality that they are not trained and may harm their patients fought for lasik and other laser treatment privileges. It is akin to letting nurses function as autonomous PCP's because they have related training and experience.

Oh, I completely agree that everybody should become familiar with both the pros and cons of any field in consideration. However, calling optometrists "midlevel" practitioners who are destined to work at Walmart was simply immature.
 
As a doctor, I want to have the kind of autonomy to make groundbreaking decisions for my patients and treat a wide range of diseases. All the options are limited.

I respect your desire to be autonomous. But you have to also realize that in most states Optometrists are able to function basically as "internal medicine doctors for the eyes". They can prescribe visual aids, eye drops, oral medications and perform minor surgical procedures.

When a patient requires surgery for example, the Optometrist will refer out to an appropriate, preferably fellowship trained, ophthalmologist or a neurologist if a non-secreting pituitary adenoma is found for example based on visual field testing.

It's fine to explore alternative pathways, but to also accept the negative aspects associated with that pathway. The reality is that optometry is over saturated and even if you go down to our optometry forum many optometrists now vocally state that they regret going down that field due to decreased income and autonomy as well as the reality that optometrists are being overproduced.
Furthermore it is true. Optometrists have violently despite the reality that they are not trained and may harm their patients fought for lasik and other laser treatment privileges. It is akin to letting nurses function as autonomous PCP's because they have related training and experience.

I disagree with you quite violently 😀 I'd be willing to put any medical graduate against any optometry graduate about how to treat eye disease. Optometry students know far more about eyes than any M.D. or D.O. recent graduate. The reason is that the training it more direct and specific to the career path. With the need for increased future efficiency, this type of pathway will just become more prevalent and desirable.

Optometry is not meant to be a pathway of "You did not get into medical school so now you can try your luck in other career pathways." Some people make that mistake and regret it later on. You have to have a passion for science, optics, human vision and just eyes in general. And sure there are some Optometrists that have a strong desire to do surgery. Just like many Internal Medicine or Family Medicine Doctors may lust after being able to do surgery as well.

The profession may be over saturated in urban areas just how medical doctors and DOs are usually over saturated in urban areas.
 
I respect your desire to be autonomous. But you have to also realize that in most states Optometrists are able to function basically as "internal medicine doctors for the eyes". They can prescribe visual aids, eye drops, oral medications and perform minor surgical procedures.

When a patient requires surgery for example, the Optometrist will refer out to an appropriate, preferably fellowship trained, ophthalmologist or a neurologist if a non-secreting pituitary adenoma is found for example based on visual field testing.



I disagree with you quite violently 😀 I'd be willing to put any medical graduate against any optometry graduate about how to treat eye disease. Optometry students know far more about eyes than any M.D. or D.O. recent graduate. The reason is that the training it more direct and specific to the career path. With the need for increased future efficiency, this type of pathway will just become more prevalent and desirable.

Yes, but an ophthalmologist vs an optometrist?
 
I think this thread is well intentioned. There are other professional schools people don't consider: Podiatry is something that hasn't been mentioned. It has a great lifestyle and many of the same privileges as M.D.s and D.O.s.
 
I think this thread is well intentioned. There are other professional schools people don't consider: Podiatry is something that hasn't been mentioned. It has a great lifestyle and many of the same privileges as M.D.s and D.O.s.

I don't know about you, but now that I know that people can get into podiatry school with a 20 on the MCAT, I'm deeply suspicious of any podiatrist. I know an airhead that got a 22, and the thought of her doing any kind of surgery really scares me. I personally witnessed her label the left lung the "left ventricle" and the right lung the "right atrium." Oh my lawd she is smoking hot though... :meanie:
 
I don't know about you, but now that I know that people can get into podiatry school with a 20 on the MCAT, I'm deeply suspicious of any podiatrist. I know an airhead that got a 22, and the thought of her doing any kind of surgery really scares me. I personally witnessed her label the left lung the "left ventricle" and the right lung the "right atrium." Oh my lawd she is smoking hot though... :meanie:

Aren't you applying to DO schools?

If someone said, "now I know that people can get into DO schools with a 22 on the MCAT, I'm deeply suspicious of any DO physician", how would you respond?
 
Yes, but an ophthalmologist vs an optometrist?

He does not seem to get it. i am not trying to bash any profession, but that was a really tacky analogy he used. "Internal Medicine for the eyes." If that was the case, wouldn't they be able to do major surgery. I cannot be an optometrist without compromising that.
 
Aren't you applying to DO schools?

If someone said, "now I know that people can get into DO schools with a 22 on the MCAT, I'm deeply suspicious of any DO physician", how would you respond?

I think there are students currently at DO schools who are not qualified to be physicians (or have not shown it yet). If there are students there whose MCAT score is 22 ( I say "if" because I don't know anyone applying or in DO/MD school with an MCAT score that low), I think a reasonable argument can be made they are not intelligent enough to be a physician. Obviously there are exceptions, but in my opinion it holds true generally.

Having said that there is definitely a chance I end up at a DO school. The above opinion is more dependent on the individual, not the institution.
 
I think there are students currently at DO schools who are not qualified to be physicians (or have not shown it yet). If there are students there whose MCAT score is 22 ( I say "if" because I don't know anyone applying or in DO/MD school with an MCAT score that low), I think a reasonable argument can be made they are not intelligent enough to be a physician. Obviously there are exceptions, but in my opinion it holds true generally.

Having said that there is definitely a chance I end up at a DO school. The above opinion is more dependent on the individual, not the institution.

Unqualified by what standards exactly? Failing to pass the boards or classes? or having a substandard mcat? A mcat score is important, but there are significantly more important things.
 
Unqualified by what standard exactly? Failing to pass the boards or classes? or having a substandard mcat? A mcat score is important, but there are significantly more important things.

Unqualified as in not having a baseline level of intelligence that is required to have an adequate comprehension of the massive body of medical knowledge required to be a physician. As I said before, having a 22 does not preclude someone from being above this threshold, but is just one of many possible indicators.
 
Aren't you applying to DO schools?

If someone said, "now I know that people can get into DO schools with a 22 on the MCAT, I'm deeply suspicious of any DO physician", how would you respond?

I did apply DO. As backup. I withdrew my DO apps as the MD interviews came in.

The separation between MD and DO is much smaller than the ravine between MD/DO and podiatry. You made a good effort at a straw man though. 3/10.
 
I did apply DO. As backup. I withdrew my DO apps as the MD interviews came in.

The separation between MD and DO is much smaller than the ravine between MD/DO and podiatry. You made a good effort at a straw man though. 3/10.

Ballsy.
 
Speaking of scary, podiatry residents do months of medicine during residency...
 
He does not seem to get it. i am not trying to bash any profession, but that was a really tacky analogy he used. "Internal Medicine for the eyes." If that was the case, wouldn't they be able to do major surgery. I cannot be an optometrist without compromising that.

I mean that's what I was comparing it to. Just as an analogy. Perhaps it is a hyperbole, perhaps not. As of now ODs can't do major surgery except in 2-16 states or so if you consider eye injections major surgery. Only 2 states then if you do not. Yes, our scope of practice is fairly limited but the bonus we get for that is being a lifestyle specialty. Our school is basically 9-6 or so for 4 years and then when you are out and practicing its also usually 9-5 or 10-6 or so.

Some ODs strongly desire for the laws to change and we actually learn more about how lasers work than ophthalmologists (presumably because they don't take formal classes). We take formal optics classes for 2 years and many of us are strong in physics from undergrad. The current trend is that laws are changing and the scope of practice is enlarging for Optometrists.
 
I don't know about you, but now that I know that people can get into podiatry school with a 20 on the MCAT, I'm deeply suspicious of any podiatrist. I know an airhead that got a 22, and the thought of her doing any kind of surgery really scares me. I personally witnessed her label the left lung the "left ventricle" and the right lung the "right atrium." Oh my lawd she is smoking hot though... :meanie:

Please do not judge the entire profession of podiatry on one girl as well as the average MCAT score. It's easy to get into podiatry school but not so easy to finish. I did bad on the MCAT but consider myself to be excelling in school, which is not a walk in the park because we really are trained to be an expert at the foot and ankle.

I don't normally actively defend my profession on these forums, but it bothers me when people get the wrong impression of podiatry 😎
 
Yes, but an ophthalmologist vs an optometrist?

Not even a comparison, opthalmology is a very competitive specialty. Even in the unlikely scenario that optometrists get the right to perform cataract surgery, which is the bread and butter of ophthalmology, most people would choose to get it performed by an ophthalmologist anyway.
 
Bio-medical engineering might also interest people who are interested in biology/medicine but are unsatisfied with the salary of a normal researcher.
 
Optometry's salary is less than pharmacy and the market is equally as bad if not worse. Furthermore the scope of practice is extremely limited, and frankly optometrists doing LASIK is disconcerting.
Either way, you guys are just another violent midlevel group that are desperately trying to expand out of the reality that your only future employment prospects are working for 15$ an hour at Walmart Optical.

😱 Dang, where'd that come from?
 
:whoa:

Jeez it's chaos in here.

MD vs DO vs OD vs DDS vs cRNA

Never a dull moment on SDN! Nothing against optometrists, but if I were really interested in eyes, I would specialize in opthamology. I always thought ophthalmologists were basically MDs (or DOs), but optometrists were more like trained technical specialists...
 
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