Am I blacklisted for Canadian & American schools?

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KaLe88

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So, this is my story. No judgment please.

I'm currently a resident of Canada, and applied for a certain Canadian med school in Western Canada in 2011. On the application, I made what turned out to be a devastating typo. I had an odd job which started in 2008 and finished in 2009. For some reason, I put down 2011 as the completion time (out of habit???? I applied in 2011). I double, triple checked my application, but for some reason, this error escaped me (probably because I never cared much about this one little odd job). Now, I was one of those people who emailed my write-up (dates, hours, explanation, etc) to each and everyone of my verifiers to double check, and what do ya know, my verifier didn't catch it either.

It was just my luck that out of the many applicants for that school, my verifiers were picked, AFTER my MMIs. Out of the many activities I had on my application, this verifier was contacted. Upon checking, the verifier noticed the error. When I was contacted by adcom, that was the 1st time I noticed what I had done. I 'fessed up to the "crime", and admitted that it was honestly just a mistake. I know that an error like that looks sketchy, and the reason of it being a "typo" is weak. I knew how it looked, but it seriously was just a slip that escaped both my(mostly) and the verifier's attention. My verifier backed me up on this, and I included my initial communication with the verifier with my application. I had good grades (top 3 in my program), all kinds of ECs that WERE verifiable, what I felt was a decent interview, MCAT score of 37, glowing references, etc. There was simply no need for me to do this intentionally.

Anyways, my application was thrown out (deservingly) with a message along the lines of"a note was placed on your file". It was a huge blow to me, but I thought I came back from it quite well. I accepted the decision; I graduated with flying colours; I travelled to 3 different countries; I got a good job with good pay; I hung out with friends; I kept up with the ECs that I found meaningful. However, I still haven't given up on my dream of being a doctor. That's something I've worked so hard for so long. This year, I'm thinking about applying again, but I still can't stop thinking about that mistake from all those years ago (feels like a long time ago).

1. Will an issue like this cause me to become "blacklisted" somehow? At the very least, this shows carelessness, so I can accept not being accepted by that original school in the future. I'm just concerned that I'm now on one of those "cheater" lists and won't get into a good Canadian or American school, ever. Is there any official way to find out if I'm on this blacklist? (A phone call to Admissions to find out was not helpful).

2. My friends are telling me that I should have voluntarily withdrawn my application before my verifier got back to the adcom about this mistake. (He probably wouldn't have sent that "clarification" if I had told him that I was withdrawing). It would have looked highly suspicious, but they wouldn't have had any real evidence of wrongdoing. This option still seems like lying to me, but do you think this would have been the right thing to do? Obviously, it would have been nice if I had noticed it earlier, and withdrawn before the university discovered it, but would withdrawing at that point still have made any differences?

3. I looked into schools in the Caribbeans and Australia, but those don't seem to be viable options if I want to practice in Canada (or even stay and practice there given Australia's intern crisis). I'm seriously willing to give up my job and take out a loan if that means I can be a doctor, but it seems silly to do that if it's only a long-shot. Does any have any updated information on the status of IMGs?

Thank you for all your help.

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Btw, this is what I found on the OMSAS website.

"It is your responsibility to ensure that your application information and all supporting documentation is truthful, complete and correct, and that your autobiographic and personal submissions are authored solely and entirely by you. The OUAC and the universities reserve the right to verify any information provided as part of this application. If any information in your application is determined to be false or misleading, concealed or withheld, or written by a third party, at the absolute discretion of the OUAC and/or a university, your application may be invalidated. This could result in its immediate rejection or in the revocation of an offer of admission or registration at a university. Any such information may be shared by the OUAC or by universities and colleges with the Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada (AFMC), and with other universities and colleges across Canada."

I didn't find any corresponding passages in the application package for my school, but I assume policies are similar. Do you think this extends to American schools as well?

Thanks.
 
why did they make such a big deal out of it? I mean it's just a typo.

Did you say you were like chief financial officer instead of laboratory technician?
 
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OP, you didn't "deserve" this nonsense imo. it was clearly an honest mistake (and a minor one at that), and i am so sorry that you had to go through this.

i don't know whether you'll be blacklisted in the system, so here's a bump hoping other SDN members can chip in.

but definitely dont give up!
 
why did they make such a big deal out of it? I mean it's just a typo.

Did you say you were like chief financial officer instead of laboratory technician?

I think maybe it looked bad because I effectively tripled my hours (accidentally). So far I haven't been able to find out exactly how they classified this, and not knowing anything is driving me insane.

OP, you didn't "deserve" this nonsense imo. it was clearly an honest mistake (and a minor one at that), and i am so sorry that you had to go through this.

i don't know whether you'll be blacklisted in the system, so here's a bump hoping other SDN members can chip in.

but definitely dont give up!

Thank you for your support!
 
I think maybe it looked bad because I effectively tripled my hours (accidentally). So far I haven't been able to find out exactly how they classified this, and not knowing anything is driving me insane.



Thank you for your support!

I suppose if you were a health care worker you effectively tripled your clinical experience. If it was something mundane like lab tech or unrelated to med school ECs I can't see why it would be a big deal.

You probably won't have to disclose something like that on AMCAS, what did they do just rescind your acceptance?
 
I sympathize with you. This kind of situation can really suck. I'm not familiar with Canadian schools at all. Unless they are a part of AMCAS, I doubt that anyone would communicate with each other. In the US, AMCAS and AACOMAS for osteopathic schools are completely separate. So if you apply in the US, you will probably be okay and never have to disclose that you were previously an applicant. Of course you must make sure that you aren't breaking any rules, so don't take it from me!

And while I feel for you with situation, you also need to see it from the ADCOM's perspective. Their hands are tied, and they are usually following protocol. Even though a lot of people on SDN would deny embellishing things like volunteer hours, a large amount of people do it. I'm sure that ADCOMs don't look at this kindly. Even though you said it was a mistake, you still need to see it from the other perspective.

When I used to work in the airline industry, it seemed that every other person was an "exception to the rule." Everyone would want their bag fee waived or free upgrade. I'm also a big fan of the Airliners.net forum, and remember a thread about a woman who was completely out of money and was not allowed to board her flight because she couldn't pay the bag fee. You had a big divide between people who thought that US Airways was at fault because they were so heartless, and those who thought that she was no exception to the rules that everyone else paid. Or how about that terminally ill veteran who picketed Spirit despite the fact that he didn't opt in for the travel insurance?

What do airlines have to do with this? It just shows that lots and lots of people make mistakes (or not). When an applicant is unfortunate enough to have embellished activities verified, what do you think they'll say when they are caught? "Oh you've caught me red handed, please give me my punishment." I doubt it, I think someone will say, "Oh my God really?! How could I have been so stupid with my math? Obviously I've either misplaced a number or something. I'm sorry." So in the end, whether this was intentional or not, the ADCOMs will never know. They have to deal with this a lot I'm sure, and I'm also sure that over 90% of the applicants who get caught try to come up with some excuse. So you're not the only one, and it's doubtful that you would be treated as an exception to the rule. Because if everyone's mistakes were forgiven on the application, then I'm sure everyone would start embellishing their activities even further because there would be no negative consequences.

I really hope I didn't come off as really harsh... But we're all in a big boat together, and the ADCOMs are probably unlikely to make everyone an exception to their rules, which they also take seriously. So if you're able to apply to US MD and DO schools without ever acknowledging that you applied to Canadian schools (since you never attended, you don't need to check the box saying you actually attended another medical school), then by all means go do it. This is very unfortunate, and sometimes this is the curve ball that life throws us. 🙁
 
I sympathize with you. This kind of situation can really suck. I'm not familiar with Canadian schools at all. Unless they are a part of AMCAS, I doubt that anyone would communicate with each other. In the US, AMCAS and AACOMAS for osteopathic schools are completely separate. So if you apply in the US, you will probably be okay and never have to disclose that you were previously an applicant. Of course you must make sure that you aren't breaking any rules, so don't take it from me!

And while I feel for you with situation, you also need to see it from the ADCOM's perspective. Their hands are tied, and they are usually following protocol. Even though a lot of people on SDN would deny embellishing things like volunteer hours, a large amount of people do it. I'm sure that ADCOMs don't look at this kindly. Even though you said it was a mistake, you still need to see it from the other perspective.

When I used to work in the airline industry, it seemed that every other person was an "exception to the rule." Everyone would want their bag fee waived or free upgrade. I'm also a big fan of the Airliners.net forum, and remember a thread about a woman who was completely out of money and was not allowed to board her flight because she couldn't pay the bag fee. You had a big divide between people who thought that US Airways was at fault because they were so heartless, and those who thought that she was no exception to the rules that everyone else paid. Or how about that terminally ill veteran who picketed Spirit despite the fact that he didn't opt in for the travel insurance?

What do airlines have to do with this? It just shows that lots and lots of people make mistakes (or not). When an applicant is unfortunate enough to have embellished activities verified, what do you think they'll say when they are caught? "Oh you've caught me red handed, please give me my punishment." I doubt it, I think someone will say, "Oh my God really?! How could I have been so stupid with my math? Obviously I've either misplaced a number or something. I'm sorry." So in the end, whether this was intentional or not, the ADCOMs will never know. They have to deal with this a lot I'm sure, and I'm also sure that over 90% of the applicants who get caught try to come up with some excuse. So you're not the only one, and it's doubtful that you would be treated as an exception to the rule. Because if everyone's mistakes were forgiven on the application, then I'm sure everyone would start embellishing their activities even further because there would be no negative consequences.

I really hope I didn't come off as really harsh... But we're all in a big boat together, and the ADCOMs are probably unlikely to make everyone an exception to their rules, which they also take seriously. So if you're able to apply to US MD and DO schools without ever acknowledging that you applied to Canadian schools (since you never attended, you don't need to check the box saying you actually attended another medical school), then by all means go do it. This is very unfortunate, and sometimes this is the curve ball that life throws us. 🙁

now your profile pic makes a lot more sense...
 
I suppose if you were a health care worker you effectively tripled your clinical experience. If it was something mundane like lab tech or unrelated to med school ECs I can't see why it would be a big deal.

You probably won't have to disclose something like that on AMCAS, what did they do just rescind your acceptance?

Oh it was totally mundane. It was one of those meaningless part-time jobs I had to take to make money in UG. Whenever I think of this, I ask myself why I even put it on my resume.

They sent me an email through the application system to inform me that they would not be able to proceed with processing my application, and that a note has been placed on my file. It was a very harsh-sounding email, and I got the impression that they didn't believe the whole "mistake" excuse I gave. Can't remember the exact wording though (trying hard not to think about it).

What do airlines have to do with this? It just shows that lots and lots of people make mistakes (or not). When an applicant is unfortunate enough to have embellished activities verified, what do you think they'll say when they are caught? "Oh you've caught me red handed, please give me my punishment." I doubt it, I think someone will say, "Oh my God really?! How could I have been so stupid with my math? Obviously I've either misplaced a number or something. I'm sorry." So in the end, whether this was intentional or not, the ADCOMs will never know. They have to deal with this a lot I'm sure, and I'm also sure that over 90% of the applicants who get caught try to come up with some excuse. So you're not the only one, and it's doubtful that you would be treated as an exception to the rule. Because if everyone's mistakes were forgiven on the application, then I'm sure everyone would start embellishing their activities even further because there would be no negative consequences.

I really hope I didn't come off as really harsh... But we're all in a big boat together, and the ADCOMs are probably unlikely to make everyone an exception to their rules, which they also take seriously. So if you're able to apply to US MD and DO schools without ever acknowledging that you applied to Canadian schools (since you never attended, you don't need to check the box saying you actually attended another medical school), then by all means go do it. This is very unfortunate, and sometimes this is the curve ball that life throws us. 🙁

Thanks for all the information. I can totally see it from their perspective. I understand that a mistake like that looks very very bad to the adcom, and probably makes the rest of my application look a little suspect as well. That's why I didn't protest at all when they dropped my application that year. I won't even mind too much if that particular school will never accept me again. You make mistakes in life, and you pay for it. I don't see it as unfair at all.

Right now, it's the lack of information about the consequences of their decision that's gnawing at me. I can't seem to shake off the fear that because I made that one typo, my medical career will be over completely before it even began, and that there is nothing I can do to make things better. I know these things can happen in life, and it's not the end of the world, but it's still incredibly upsetting to have my dreams dashed this way.

My friends are also telling me that the fact that this activity is so minor compared to everything else, and that I sent that exact same information to my verifier when I asked if he's OK with it will be in my favor. *fingers crossed*

You're not being harsh at all, and I really appreciate you taking the time to type such a helpful reply. I never seriously considered American schools before, but I'll definitely do some research on both MD and DO options for this cycle.
 
If you do come to the US for a med interview, wear a suit. I remember a Canadian posting about wearing dark jeans and a dress shirt to a US allo med school interview.... Yikes.
Also Canada sounds harsh. I hope a new app means a fresh start for you. Good luck.
 
If you do come to the US for a med interview, wear a suit. I remember a Canadian posting about wearing dark jeans and a dress shirt to a US allo med school interview.... Yikes.
Also Canada sounds harsh. I hope a new app means a fresh start for you. Good luck.

Or better yet...

tumblr_mdyrasCC4s1qhft5ko1_r1_1280.jpg
 
If you do come to the US for a med interview, wear a suit. I remember a Canadian posting about wearing dark jeans and a dress shirt to a US allo med school interview.... Yikes.
Also Canada sounds harsh. I hope a new app means a fresh start for you. Good luck.

I recently just skimmed the avg stats of ll the Canadian med school. All I have to say is wow. 😱

OP, I am really sorry dude for your mishap. From the opinions gathered in this thread, I would say that it is safe for you to apply US MD and/or DO, particularly in the northern US where many Canadian applicants are welcome. 😀
 
I recently just skimmed the avg stats of ll the Canadian med school. All I have to say is wow. 😱

OP, I am really sorry dude for your mishap. From the opinions gathered in this thread, I would say that it is safe for you to apply US MD and/or DO, particularly in the northern US where many Canadian applicants are welcome. 😀

They took our residency spots!

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik[/YOUTUBE]

20120215204652!South_Park_715_-_It%27s_Christmas_in_Canada_0001.jpg
 
Thanks for all the information. I can totally see it from their perspective. I understand that a mistake like that looks very very bad to the adcom, and probably makes the rest of my application look a little suspect as well. That's why I didn't protest at all when they dropped my application that year. I won't even mind too much if that particular school will never accept me again. You make mistakes in life, and you pay for it. I don't see it as unfair at all.

Right now, it's the lack of information about the consequences of their decision that's gnawing at me. I can't seem to shake off the fear that because I made that one typo, my medical career will be over completely before it even began, and that there is nothing I can do to make things better. I know these things can happen in life, and it's not the end of the world, but it's still incredibly upsetting to have my dreams dashed this way.

My friends are also telling me that the fact that this activity is so minor compared to everything else, and that I sent that exact same information to my verifier when I asked if he's OK with it will be in my favor. *fingers crossed*

You're not being harsh at all, and I really appreciate you taking the time to type such a helpful reply. I never seriously considered American schools before, but I'll definitely do some research on both MD and DO options for this cycle.

Hey KaLe88, sorry for going off on the Canada tangent... South Park has definitely changed our perspective on Canada forever. :laugh:

But on a serious note, I found some potentially bad news... I tried to find the governing agency for Canadian medical schools, and I think it is the AAMC? This is the same as US schools. 🙁

https://www.aamc.org/about/medicalschools/

Unfortunately, if you are blacklisted at one school, all of the other ones will find out as well. It's not like you can have a major issue come up with one school, have an offer rescinded/receive punishment, and then apply to other schools the following year. So your best bet now, before you go on any further potentially wasting your time, is to find out if the US allopathic schools are aware of what happened. I would highly recommend you PM LizzyM, who is SDN's favorite school administrator. If schools find out about this, then you can't just sweep it under the rug like it never happened, which I suggested earlier assuming Canadian schools were completely independent of the AAMC and AMCAS application.

So that's what I would do first... Contact people that actually know the system. From that point on, assuming that the US schools will know about this incident, perhaps you can contact medical schools individually and explain the situation. I don't know how optimistic I'd be about this, given that anyone that has been caught with a significant discrepancy in their application would likely try to pass it off as a mistake with multiple excuses. But that's just me, and I'm not an ADCOM, nor am I God.

I think that given the fact that you applied via AMCAS (please correct me if I'm wrong), you'll be considered a reapplicant. You'll need to explain yourself on the future AMCAS application and I believe AACOMAS as well. Please tell me how you applied to these schools. Did they also have an individual application? If so, this might change your situation.

But as you can see, this is a VERY confusing situation. The moral of the story is: Does AAMC know about this? If not, then you might get away with sweeping it under the rug. Then again, you can get into serious issues if anyone finds out. Once again, I am not an expert on this topic.

As you said earlier, it really sucks that this tiny error may have cost you your medical education. But in fact, that's what happens in life... One thing leads to another. Going out to the clubs instead of studying for that one test, deciding to drive home drunk from the bar just that one time, or any other seemingly minor event can change the course of the rest of your life...
 
wow, I'm really sorry this happened to you. Honestly I think the school red flagging your file is taking it a bit far. I understand the school's decision to reject you post-interview based on this, but preventing you from getting into another med school seems harsh, particularly because it was clearly an honest mistake, you owned up to it and even had your verifier to back you up

this should be a lesson to other applicants though, be very very careful with what you put on your application because schools do sometimes email verifiers to check what you wrote
 
OP, you didn't "deserve" this nonsense imo. it was clearly an honest mistake (and a minor one at that), and i am so sorry that you had to go through this.

i don't know whether you'll be blacklisted in the system, so here's a bump hoping other SDN members can chip in.

but definitely dont give up!
yeah I agree. This is a pretty crazy story, I wonder if this has ever happened with an american applicant/US schools?

OP, when the adcom contacted your verifier, do you know what he or she initially said? Maybe the verifier told the school something sketchy before they talked to you about the situation?
 
Haha wow who would pick a random job you had during the school year to verify? Of all the things to lie about...pretty sure that would be the one with the least payoff. I mean you didn't even actually get paid for all those hours :laugh:

It's like the guys at the zoo who check my ID against my unsigned credit card as if the first thing someone is gonna do with a stolen CC is go to the zoo...but then I go to Target and buy $500 bucks worth of stuff and scribble on the keypad no questions asked.
 
wow, I'm really sorry this happened to you. Honestly I think the school red flagging your file is taking it a bit far. I understand the school's decision to reject you post-interview based on this, but preventing you from getting into another med school seems harsh, particularly because it was clearly an honest mistake, you owned up to it and even had your verifier to back you up

this should be a lesson to other applicants though, be very very careful with what you put on your application because schools do sometimes email verifiers to check what you wrote

In regards to the part I bolded, what about the applicant that said they volunteered for 350 hours instead of 300? Is that an honest mistake? Or an applicant that added another year to their activity? Is that an honest mistake? They might be honest mistakes, or might not. Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, not everyone can be the exception. In the airline industry, every single passenger thinks that they are the exception. And if everyone is an exception, then what is the purpose of having rules in the first place?

As bad as things have gotten for the OP, I don't think that people can reasonably expect ADCOMs to make exceptions for everyone. I know I sound cruel, but anyone would say they made an honest mistake, whether they actually made an honest mistake or were purposely fudging the numbers. The ADCOMs will never know, but one thing is for sure, they are extremely serious about the rules they follow.

Haha wow who would pick a random job you had during the school year to verify? Of all the things to lie about...pretty sure that would be the one with the least payoff. I mean you didn't even actually get paid for all those hours :laugh:

It's like the guys at the zoo who check my ID against my unsigned credit card as if the first thing someone is gonna do with a stolen CC is go to the zoo...but then I go to Target and buy $500 bucks worth of stuff and scribble on the keypad no questions asked.

LOL yeah I've been asked for ID at Taco Bell. If I were to use a stolen credit card at a restaurant, it wouldn't be Taco Bell!

I've had this happen to me too regarding a "stupid" job. At my last job, I needed to fill out my work history entirely through the past however many years. I was missing just a few months at the end, so I inserted the under the table pizza delivery job I did. They had trouble verifying it because my former boss quit a while back as well. It was all fine in the end when they contacted my old boss finally, but it was annoying. I also wonder if they would have rescinded my offer regarding a job like that, considering that I was honest about the things that are actually important like education and "real" employment.

The fact that the OP got screwed on a "stupid" job shows that the OP is truthful, at least in my opinion.
 
OP: Can you ask for a meeting with the dean of admissions? The goal of the meeting not being to appeal the rejection, but to appeal their "note".
 
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