Am I burnt out or do I hate my job?

[neurotic_cow]

Howdy folks! Happy Wednesday! Bear with me, word-vomit coming your way re: burnout v. senioritis v. I picked the wrong career path

As a psychologist, I feel like I should have a better handle on this topic but genuinely curious about how one tells the difference between burn out and just not liking my career. At this point, there's no turning back or changing careers at least for awhile, since I'm just finishing up with postdoc and I'm just now emerging from the hell that has been my life for the past 7 years of grad school, internship, and postdoc. For the past several months, I have just absolutely dreaded going to work, I can't seem to focus, and I struggle with being productive at work. Some days I literally just sit and stare at my computer for hours and don't actually get anything done. It feels like "groundhog day" a lot of the days and I feel like I'm doing the bare minimum to get by, which is a terrible feeling and I feel like I'm letting my patients down, though I'm still caring more for my patients than my supervisor does. I don't LOVE my job or what I do like I did in grad school when everything was exciting and interesting and I only had like 1 case a week to focus on. For reference, I have been doing around 6-8 neuropsych evals a week (with doing some of my own testing) for the past 2 years of postdoc, which is the highest workload I've ever had to handle on top of everything else that postdoc entails. I've also been trying to get myself to study for board certification and can't seem to get any motivation whatsoever to do that. I passed the EPPP a year ago and just have checked out completely but I find plenty of motivation doing basically anything else: cleaning, quilting, baking, hiking, etc. I have about 2 months of postdoc left.

All of this to ask, is this normal/common? Am I just burnt out? Is this a professional version of senioritis? Does it get better?

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[szymk1sm]

That is a pretty heavy postdoc caseload, so I'm wondering if this is burnout / senioritis?

I remember feeling really burnt out towards the end of postdoc (finalized a job offer in early Feb and then things shut down with the pandemic soon after) and couldn't wait to move on to the next phase. I found the first year of work to be extremely challenging for a variety of reasons (moved during height of pandemic, didn't know co-workers, different culture, not learning certain billing / RVU things, having to increase productivity, etc). Second year has been infinitely better, as I have more support and have found my groove (for now at least).

All this is to say that this feeling is common (at least with my group of friends / colleagues), year 1 of work may also be challenging (but in a different way), and it does get better.

I would hold off on studying for boards until at least Jan or Feb of next year - get your feet wet at your new position, figure out how much time you have to actually study, then decide when is the best time to do so - knowing that work will only get busier as time goes on. Happy to send you the study guide I used - I started studying I think Feb 1 and took the written exam end of May last year. I think i was studying about 1 hr / day, 4 days / week (but I also over prepare b/c of my test taking anxiety).

 

[R. Matey]

+1 for burnout. That workload sounds pretty high to me and it sounds like you're not the greatest fan of your setting. I'm no neuropsych, but I can imagine you will have greater autonomy to decide how much you feel like you can realistically take on in a few months and, spoiler, it's probably not 6-8 reports per week. Agree with @szymk1sm (how do you pronounce that?), that taking a step back from boards likely won't kill you. Now, if only you could quilt your reports....hmm...

 

[AcronymAllergy]

6 to 8 full outpatient neuropsych evals per week? And I'm guessing you're primarily responsible for writing all of those reports, with your supervisors then reviewing?

My take: that's an exceedingly high workload for a postdoc, even with some testing support. Certainly seems like you could be experiencing burnout.

Edit: btw, if my math is right, assuming you worked 48 weeks/year and did 3 evals on your own and 3 evals with a tech, using Medicare rates from a year or two ago, you'd be grossing about $245k (non-facility).

Mind you, you'd then need to subtract expenses and what not.

 

[summerbabe]

Agree with others that this sounds like workload related burnout.

What are your plans after postdoc? Is there the option for a brief break before jumping into the job (even if a start date has already been identified)?

I had about 3 months off between postdoc and my job and it was really helpful.

 

[neurotic_cow]

Now, if only you could quilt your reports....hmm...

If only...

 

[neurotic_cow]

6 to 8 full outpatient neuropsych evals per week? And I'm guessing you're primarily responsible for writing all of those reports, with your supervisors then reviewing?

My take: that's an exceedingly high workload for a postdoc, even with some testing support. Certainly seems like you could be experiencing burnout.

Edit: btw, if my math is right, assuming you worked 48 weeks/year and did 3 evals on your own and 3 evals with a tech, using Medicare rates from a year or two ago, you'd be grossing about $245k (non-facility).

Mind you, you'd then need to subtract expenses and what not.

Yeppers, and sometimes a pre-implantation spinal cord stimulator psych eval or two thrown in. A few of those are dementia evals (maybe 2-3 per week), which are a little shorter, but I'm still spending a LOT of time writing reports. At the beginning of postdoc I was very highly distressed about the fact that I have been doing all this work and not being compensated fairly for it, but I feel like maybe now I've settled into a learned helplessness sort of state, which might be contributing to what I'm experiencing. I know that that is not uncommon for postdocs to be treated like cheap labor.

 

[neurotic_cow]

Agree with others that this sounds like workload related burnout.

What are your plans after postdoc? Is there the option for a brief break before jumping into the job (even if a start date has already been identified)?

I had about 3 months off between postdoc and my job and it was really helpful.

I'll be taking a little over a month off in between postdoc and my new job. I wanted to take more, but financially can't swing it any longer without an income without completely depleting my limited savings. But as others have mentioned, I will have some more autonomy at my new position, which I hope will help. I think the pay bump might help some as well.

 

[PsyDr]

A. Welcome to Psydr Burnout Level 2. It gets much darker if you don't intervene.
1) Not surprisingly, I've reviewed the burn out literature. So this isn't just made up, personal experience.
2) But I have a ton of personal experience in being burnout.

B Conceptually, burnout comes from
1) Demands that exceed one's ability to meet those demands
2) One's abilities, which fluctuate in response to the above.
3) Difficulties, not impossibilities, in changing those demands

You have to change one of those. It is similar to the rat, electric shock literature.

C Bad days are relative.
1) You define bad, relative to the good. Bad days are bad because you usually have good ones. Remember that.

D. Basic CBT.
1) Anything can be endured if you have an end date. You have 60 days left in post doc. Which is really 8 weeks, or 40 work days. Of which the last 5 days are going to be dedicated to administrative duties, and likely some bad sheet cake. Because of scheduling for feedback and report writing time, you can't see new patients in week 6. That leaves 5 weeks, or 25 days. If you're in trouble, call in sick for one day with diarrhea in week 4 (no one questions the poops). Now we are down to 24 days. Maybe throw in some days for a job interviews. You're almost free.
2) Read the Sweet survey. Does your experience represent the modal experience for students? No. It doesn't even compare to the modal experience of most seasoned neuropsychologists. What is the modal emotional response to extraordinary situations? Compare your emotional responses.
3) Get your post doc documentation, now. Once that is in your hands, the danger is over.

E. Invention
1) Teach yourself that there is an end date. Ask your supervisor for the plan for your departure, NOW.
2) Take a behavioral approach to the problem. Conceptually, they are assigning you work because you can do it without effort from them. Change that. Start asking a ton of questions for EACH report. Tell them you can't finish the report until you get that answer. You've now interrupted the rewards for their behavior.
3) Exert your own control over things. You are at a point where you should be able to modify your battery, your report style, create your own interview style, have your own neuro exam style, etc. Doing your own thing, modifying it, and exploring new interests, will help you find some enjoyment in your work. I've gone through dozens of different things, mostly to entertain myself.
4) Practice boundary settings. You're accepting the idea the premise they created. Unless you are in a specialized area, some of these referrals have to be outside of your area of expertise. Some of these reports need an extra day. There is no shame in saying "no". Indeed, it is the ethical thing to do.
5) Outside of work: Schedule social activities. You can rely upon taking classes, volunteering, or season tickets for scheduled social activities, if you can't create those boundaries yourself. Sleep on a schedule. If that is messed up, camping has some empirical support. Exercise, preferably outdoors for sunlight exposure. If you are religious, go do religious things because it has some support. Get some human touch, because the skin is the largest neuroendocrine system out there.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

And just to add on to what PsyDr recommended, I don't think I'd be worrying about studying for boards right now. With everything else you have going on, including what sounds like the need for more personal time and care outside of work, that can wait. The information will still be fresh after you finish. And if it's not, there are always review books and sites and groups. I don't think I actually buckled down and started studying for maybe a few years afterward, and it took me another year or two after that to get it together for my practice samples (caveat: I can be a slacker so don't follow my example, but it just shows it can be done).

 

[erg923]

and I'm just now emerging from the hell that has been my life for the past 7 years of grad school, internship, and postdoc. For the past several months, I have just absolutely dreaded going to work,

This says alot to me. I didn't really like grad school either but certainly wouldn't call the training/learning experience hell or anything close.

Combined with the above statement, I might differ from others in the sense that if you "dread going to work"....and actually dread doing the work (e.g., hours at work spent not doing it), then you may actually NOT like the work? I understand everyone's inclination for pep talks since you are not even out of post-doc, but I also think it is ok to admit that alot of what clinical neuropsychologists do on a daily basis can be repetitive, sedentary, constricting, sometimes boring, and many times thankless. Yes, yes, every patient is different but it doesn't always feel that way, right? You didn't mention significant friction with supervisors or colleagues and you said you cope and function well outside work. So...again, I'm going to say yes, its the work. This does not equate to "career" necessarily mind you. But, outpatient neuropsychology practice in the private sector is always going to be subject to productivity requirements that require more than just 2 or 3 evals per week (unless you are doing presurg and epilepsy batteries that are 10 or 12 hours each?) and may very well end up being much of the same kind of thing day in and day out.

 

[borne_before]

Howdy folks! Happy Wednesday! Bear with me, word-vomit coming your way re: burnout v. senioritis v. I picked the wrong career path

As a psychologist, I feel like I should have a better handle on this topic but genuinely curious about how one tells the difference between burn out and just not liking my career. At this point, there's no turning back or changing careers at least for awhile, since I'm just finishing up with postdoc and I'm just now emerging from the hell that has been my life for the past 7 years of grad school, internship, and postdoc. For the past several months, I have just absolutely dreaded going to work, I can't seem to focus, and I struggle with being productive at work. Some days I literally just sit and stare at my computer for hours and don't actually get anything done. It feels like "groundhog day" a lot of the days and I feel like I'm doing the bare minimum to get by, which is a terrible feeling and I feel like I'm letting my patients down, though I'm still caring more for my patients than my supervisor does. I don't LOVE my job or what I do like I did in grad school when everything was exciting and interesting and I only had like 1 case a week to focus on. For reference, I have been doing around 6-8 neuropsych evals a week (with doing some of my own testing) for the past 2 years of postdoc, which is the highest workload I've ever had to handle on top of everything else that postdoc entails. I've also been trying to get myself to study for board certification and can't seem to get any motivation whatsoever to do that. I passed the EPPP a year ago and just have checked out completely but I find plenty of motivation doing basically anything else: cleaning, quilting, baking, hiking, etc. I have about 2 months of postdoc left.

All of this to ask, is this normal/common? Am I just burnt out? Is this a professional version of senioritis? Does it get better?

1. It gets infinitely better once you are your own boss.
2. That's too much work.
3. The end is near - you can either count the days down or set a boundary.
4. You rock - you can do this. Just get it done.

 

[Sanman]

To echo what others have said, I don't think you need to change careers before ever having the actual career. Instead, enjoy the month off, continue to practice self-care at your new position, and remember that from now on you have the power to manage your life. If the productivity level you are currently working at is too much, lower it. If you need to throw some alternative work into the mix to not be bored/burnt out do it. Work is a marathon, find your pace. We all get a little caught up in salaries and money, but that will come. No one in this profession is struggling to keep a roof over their head or food in their mouth. We are just deciding how nice that roof and that food will be.

 

[Mojito_15]

If solidarity is helpful- I'm also towards the end of my postdoc, working in community health, applied for a license & already passed EPPP, just waiting for the state to process the application, and also feeling pretty burnt out. Have also been trying to figure out a way to use my license and enjoy the work. Don't have a great answer or advice yet- but working on it...

 

[R. Matey]

If solidarity is helpful- I'm also towards the end of my postdoc, working in community health, applied for a license & already passed EPPP, just waiting for the state to process the application, and also feeling pretty burnt out. Have also been trying to figure out a way to use my license and enjoy the work. Don't have a great answer or advice yet- but working on it...

I think SDN might be in need of a postdoc support thread similar to that of VA thread.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I'm leaning a little more to ERGs side on this one as far as maybe it is the work that you don't like. Of course, if I had to do even one assessment report weekly, I would probably be dreading going to work so maybe a little projection on that. I love psychological assessment, I just hate writing up stuff. There are aspects of any job that we don't like and the secret is to maximize the parts we like and minimize the parts we don't. I would suggest a self-assessment of sorts to figure out what is going on for you. As Sanman said, don't quit on it yet, but take that time off to figure out that next step. The beauty of our field is that there are lots of different paths to take and I doubt if you got this far without having what it takes to be successful in the field in some way. Maybe be an expert witness for high-profile cases involving celebrities is your path. Who knows?

 

[deleted1100659]

if you find that you have to ask yourself multiple times a week "Do I like my job here?" then you already know the answer deep down. Fear of change often keeps us bound to crappy situations. Also people often just accept unpleasant circumstances, and we become complacent. This was my situation this year and eventually I had to be honest with myself and will be pursuing a new job in a couple months.

 

[neurotic_cow]

I really appreciate everyone's input and thoughtful responses! It's been super helpful. After doing some reflection, I do think I might be burnt out and there are definitely aspects of the career that I don't love. I went to grad school with the plan of going into neuropsychology, but in reality, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Either way, I definitely enjoyed neuropsych a lot in grad school and throughout my practica, though looking back it was only something I did a few days a week, not the only thing I did, day in and day out. Looking back, the problems started when my workload went way up. Thankfully, my new job does include some rehab work and inpatient consulting, which might be good to get a little variety.

I think SDN might be in need of a postdoc support thread similar to that of VA thread.

I think that's an awesome idea!

 

[neurotic_cow]

if you find that you have to ask yourself multiple times a week "Do I like my job here?" then you already know the answer deep down. Fear of change often keeps us bound to crappy situations. Also people often just accept unpleasant circumstances, and we become complacent. This was my situation this year and eventually I had to be honest with myself and will be pursuing a new job in a couple months.

Fair point! I think I'm gonna see how it goes with my new job and re-evaluate.

 

[erg923]

I really appreciate everyone's input and thoughtful responses! It's been super helpful. After doing some reflection, I do think I might be burnt out and there are definitely aspects of the career that I don't love. I went to grad school with the plan of going into neuropsychology, but in reality, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Either way, I definitely enjoyed neuropsych a lot in grad school and throughout my practica, though looking back it was only something I did a few days a week, not the only thing I did, day in and day out. Looking back, the problems started when my workload went way up. Thankfully, my new job does include some rehab work and inpatient consulting, which might be good to get a little variety.


I think that's an awesome idea!

Full-time clinical work is often not made into an actual reality for us until... it is too late, right? At which time one may think why didn't I make my pub CV bigger, do other things, or just get an MBA and specialize in Healthcare Administration The later is by far the biggest pay out after Ph.D. Again, I think we need to normalize the fact that in a clinical science and research-oriented profession (if you are Ph.D. anyway), seeing patients all day may not be the best fit for a rewarding "career."

 

[MAClinician]

I also wouldn’t discount or minimize the impact of doing this work in the middle of a 2 year freaking pandemic has had either. Changes to our everyday routines that are emotionally isolating at times and draining can also affect how we respond to things, on top of how hard you had worked for the years leading up to this point. Hope you figure out a good plan to get to a place you feel better, whatever that might look like!

 

[szymk1sm]

I really appreciate everyone's input and thoughtful responses! It's been super helpful. After doing some reflection, I do think I might be burnt out and there are definitely aspects of the career that I don't love. I went to grad school with the plan of going into neuropsychology, but in reality, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Either way, I definitely enjoyed neuropsych a lot in grad school and throughout my practica, though looking back it was only something I did a few days a week, not the only thing I did, day in and day out. Looking back, the problems started when my workload went way up. Thankfully, my new job does include some rehab work and inpatient consulting, which might be good to get a little variety.


I think that's an awesome idea!

I was very research heavy in grad school and got burnt out on that - switched to pursuing primarily clinical neuropsychology (internship, postdoc) and got burnt out / bored with seeing patients all week. I'm now in a position that has an 80 / 20 split (R / C) and I'm so much happier. I get to do both of the things I enjoy but neither are my sole focus.....

so fingers crossed for you that the variety at your new job is what you need to stay engaged. Good luck!

 

[cara susanna]

I think SDN might be in need of a postdoc support thread similar to that of VA thread.

For sure! I also want to add that VA post docs/interns/prac students are welcome to post in our VA thread.

 

[hum1]

I am a psychologist from another country who had to get re trained when I moved to the US because my credentials were not accepted.

In the third year of my doctorate for the first time ever I became fed up of psychology and was getting quite discouraged in pursuing a career in psychology. Classes and teachers were not interesting nor inspiring, practicum was good but demanding, and I was teaching psychology full time while doing the PsyD program. That year we had comps in the program. For the first time I could not even think about psychology or read anything related with psychology. Actually the doctorate program was so bad that it was taking away my passion for psychology! But I kept alive in my mind the things that I wanted to do, and my clinical interests, and those were very important through those dark times. I am not sure if I am fully recovered or will ever be. If I could go back I am not sure if I would go through the same thing again.