Am I ready to be a Doctor?

[NexusMD]

So after reading multiple posts about people regretting med school, and after reading and researching the grueling hours that most people encounter during third year and most of the pg years.
I personally am not into money THAT much. If i can make 160-180k a year, I think I'd be pretty happy. I am not looking to make 900k a year working 90 hours a week.
If I could make 160-180k a year, working 40-50 hour weeks it would be ideal. I am big into family, and I am already engaged and want to get married after I graduate from college (before med school).

I know med school takes a lot of time, and everything, but is it even possible? To be recently married, in hopes of attending med school?

And is it possible to find a speciality that can allow me to take 160-180k and not have to work ridiculous hours? Even for residency, I dont want to be in a hospital 24/7. Anyone have ideas?

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[MonkeyNuts!]

It's a tough job. Whether you can have a family let alone sustain a marriage while in medical school depends highly on what school you go to. You will have an easier time going to a school with block scheduling instead of a traditional 9-5 class schedule. Some schools, like UT Galveston, are even outright supportive of med student families - during the interview day, a student on the panel talked about how UT Galveston found his wife a job in the area so that she could move down with him.

As for the specialty, well family med docs have an average salary of around 149K, although their hours vary a bit. Psychology is a 9-5, as is Derm, also I think Radiology and Pathology have decent hours. If all else fails, go do academic research... usually 9-5 unless you turn into a labrat.

 

[mintendo]

Psychiatry

 

[szhao]

no your obviously not ready to be a doctor, i think you should be a coal miner in west virginia

 

[NexusMD]

It's a tough job. Whether you can have a family let alone sustain a marriage while in medical school depends highly on what school you go to. You will have an easier time going to a school with block scheduling instead of a traditional 9-5 class schedule. Some schools, like UT Galveston, are even outright supportive of med student families - during the interview day, a student on the panel talked about how UT Galveston found his wife a job in the area so that she could move down with him.

As for the specialty, well family med docs have an average salary of around 149K, although their hours vary a bit. Psychology is a 9-5, as is Derm, also I think Radiology and Pathology have decent hours. If all else fails, go do academic research... usually 9-5 unless you turn into a labrat.

I knew about derm, but psychiatry? Although I enjoy studying behavior disorders and such, im not sure if I would actually do that. I also heard some things about PM&R being able to possibly have a good lifestyle.
As of right now, family is more important to me then career, I'd rather be a business man with a family, then a Dr. w/o one. But right now I want to be a Dr. with a family, and I am just worried that may be asking for too much.

 

[nursetodoc]

Honestly, I think its possible to balance being a doctor, and family man. It depends on what your priorities are, and if family is your priority I am confident that you will be able to balance your time between the two. I think that a lot of times doctors have no time for family b/c it's a choice that they themselves make. For example Dr. Rey on 90210. How much more time do you think he could have with his family if that was a priority for him? Now, don't get me wrong medicine is very demanding, as well as family, but with good time management, and planning ahead, I think it's very possible.

 

[sweet2th]

try imagining this from a female perspective...Moms take maternity leave, dads don't have to...moms carry around a large belly of baby and ward of morning sickness, dads don't. I am married and want a family and it seems very complicated with my career choice. I have read tons of examples of people doing it, so I assume it can be done. I can't imagine being pregnant, trying to take care of my body while battling school and studying ungodly hours. Personally, I feel being a younger mom is ideal so my fantasy of having a baby in the summer before 3d yr med school is still alive, but the reality of taking Step 1 at that time could pose a problem. I might have to wait until residency...when I'm in my 30's. Message...it can be done, and feel lucky you are a dude!

 

[sirus_virus]

So after reading multiple posts about people regretting med school, and after reading and researching the grueling hours that most people encounter during third year and most of the pg years.
I personally am not into money THAT much. If i can make 160-180k a year, I think I'd be pretty happy. I am not looking to make 900k a year working 90 hours a week.
If I could make 160-180k a year, working 40-50 hour weeks it would be ideal. I am big into family, and I am already engaged and want to get married after I graduate from college (before med school).

I know med school takes a lot of time, and everything, but is it even possible? To be recently married, in hopes of attending med school?

And is it possible to find a speciality that can allow me to take 160-180k and not have to work ridiculous hours? Even for residency, I dont want to be in a hospital 24/7. Anyone have ideas?

Why dont you go rob a bank and call it a day.

On a more serious note you won't be the first to have a family and a medical career. The fact that you are concerned about your family means you are likely to succeed in that department. But I warn you--financial problems is the leading family breaker, so if you do choose another profession make sure you got the money thing covered.

 

[NexusMD]

Why dont you go rob a bank and call it a day.

On a more serious note you won't be the first to have a family and a medical career. The fact that you are concerned about your family means you are likely to succeed in that department. But I warn you--financial problems is the leading family breaker, so if you do choose another profession make sure you got the money thing covered.

lol, i know its a bit funny and maybe unrealistic. Im just saying, working 40-50 hours a week and make enough to support a family, not exactly those exact numbers.

As for being a female in it, im sure it is more difficult. I thank god i dont have to physically deal with pregnancy. And the more I read about it, the more I know its possible but it'll take a lot of time managment and compromise from both sides.

I was wondering, doctors that work ungodly hours constantly, thats their choice? Why would someone put themselves through that? Money cannot be the only reason can it? Its scary that money carries that much weight on peoples mind.

 

[MWK]

Do Emergency Medicine if you are that concerned with the hours. Once your shift is up, you're gone. You do 12 hour shifts, so you get stuck with some nights, but its only a 1+3 residency. Its interesting work because of the sheer patient load too and you can easily meet your salary.

You dont have to come in at 5 and do rounds, etc. You might work 4 12 hour shifts a week.

 

[njcaldwell]

Im with your Nexus, I have some of the same questions.

However my desire is to do international health care... Im pulling for a nurse So I can spend time with her at work

 

[sirus_virus]

lol, i know its a bit funny and maybe unrealistic. Im just saying, working 40-50 hours a week and make enough to support a family, not exactly those exact numbers.

As for being a female in it, im sure it is more difficult. I thank god i dont have to physically deal with pregnancy. And the more I read about it, the more I know its possible but it'll take a lot of time managment and compromise from both sides.

I was wondering, doctors that work ungodly hours constantly, thats their choice? Why would someone put themselves through that? Money cannot be the only reason can it? Its scary that money carries that much weight on peoples mind.

Not really. Most if not all doctors want to work low hours for good money, but somewhere between medschool, USMLE and the great match most will land somewhere they dont like, and that is the beginninng of life's frustrations. I am yet to meet a disgruntled dermatologist, but the competition to get into a derm residency is ridiculous, so realistically you can't go in hopping to become a derm(if it happens then great). If you want extra time for family you should look seriously at pathology, PM&R, psych, Radiology(competitive though). Or just work part-time in the other time consuming specialties. A guy like you probably needs to run as far away as possible from primary care.

 

[NexusMD]

Not really. Most if not all doctors want to work low hours for good money, but somewhere between medschool, USMLE and the great match most will land somewhere they dont like, and that is the beginninng of life's frustrations. I am yet to meet a disgruntled dermatologist, but the competition to get into a derm residency is ridiculous, so realistically you can't go in hopping to become a derm(if it happens then great). If you want extra time for family you should look seriously at pathology, PM&R, psych, Radiology(competitive though). Or just work part-time in the other time consuming specialties. A guy like you probably needs to run as far away as possible from primary care.

Really? Didnt know primary care was that bad. I was thinking about PM&R, but what about MWK said about emergency medicine?

 

[Cirrus83]

Why dont you go rob a bank and call it a day.

On a more serious note you won't be the first to have a family and a medical career. The fact that you are concerned about your family means you are likely to succeed in that department. But I warn you--financial problems is the leading family breaker, so if you do choose another profession make sure you got the money thing covered.

It's not entirely impossible for him to hit his goal...if he studies hard enough and can nail some impressive USMLE scores and get into a sweet specialty...

Seriously, a dermatologist could pull off those hours and still make at least that much.

Of course it's also hard as hell to get into it to begin with haha.

BTW, if you really just don't care about money then you could pretty much do any specialty and be happy with whatever hours you end up doing. It's not a very popular decision, but you could just work part time as a PCP and still pull in like 90K a year, which isn't super sweet but it's not like you're in the damned poorhouse. "Oh no, I only drive a Lexus ES350 and not the LS460! How will my children be able to look me in the eye."

Seriously, if family really matters to you, you'll find a way even if it means not driving that S550.

 

[tdkneo]

So after reading multiple posts about people regretting med school, and after reading and researching the grueling hours that most people encounter during third year and most of the pg years.
I personally am not into money THAT much. If i can make 160-180k a year, I think I'd be pretty happy. I am not looking to make 900k a year working 90 hours a week.
If I could make 160-180k a year, working 40-50 hour weeks it would be ideal. I am big into family, and I am already engaged and want to get married after I graduate from college (before med school).

I know med school takes a lot of time, and everything, but is it even possible? To be recently married, in hopes of attending med school?

And is it possible to find a speciality that can allow me to take 160-180k and not have to work ridiculous hours? Even for residency, I dont want to be in a hospital 24/7. Anyone have ideas?

Youre definitely not ready to become a doctor.......

 

[Pkboi24]

Do Emergency Medicine if you are that concerned with the hours. Once your shift is up, you're gone. You do 12 hour shifts, so you get stuck with some nights, but its only a 1+3 residency. Its interesting work because of the sheer patient load too and you can easily meet your salary.

You dont have to come in at 5 and do rounds, etc. You might work 4 12 hour shifts a week.

4 12 hour shifts for close to 200 grand a year? That sounds a little too good to be true. I've been looking into EM and knew the hours were good, but THIS good? 48 hrs a week, 200 grand a year, you're making around $80 an hour.

 

[45408]

4 12 hour shifts for close to 200 grand a year? That sounds a little too good to be true. I've been looking into EM and knew the hours were good, but THIS good? 48 hrs a week, 200 grand a year, you're making around $80 an hour.

$80 an hour isn't *stunning* for a doctor. Think how much more money they're making from you. I'm sure it costs at least $150 for the ER doc to step into your room, which may take all of five minutes. A nurse can make $30-40 an hour after they've been working for a while. My wife makes $37/hr when she's on overtime.

Anyways, go into PM&R. It's not a very competitive residency, and the PGY2 I know in PM&R says he rarely works more than 50 hours a week (AS A RESIDENT!).

 

[xucardsfan08]

Radiology is also another possibility.

My aunt made $200k+ right out of residency and I shadowed her for a week and she got to work about 6:30am and left around 3:30pm-4:30pm depending on the day.

 

[NexusMD]

Radiology is also another possibility.

My aunt made $200k+ right out of residency and I shadowed her for a week and she got to work about 6:30am and left around 3:30pm-4:30pm depending on the day.

I heard radiology is becoming more and more competative, but PM&R isnt, and both produce pretty solid hours. I'm more conccerned with hours then I am with salary. If I have to take a pay cut to be with my family thats fine. Im weird like that

 

[Law2Doc]

Radiology is also another possibility.

My aunt made $200k+ right out of residency and I shadowed her for a week and she got to work about 6:30am and left around 3:30pm-4:30pm depending on the day.

Well 6:30 to 4:30 is 50 hours right there. And most people will have periodic call and weekend work on top of "normal hours", bringing up the average hours worked. So this person is probably working closer to an average of 60ish hours per week, when all is said and done, even if the week you saw was not that bad. Not too shabby, but certainly outside of the OP's range.

Truth of the matter is it's rare to find a position in medicine that both pays well and lets you work 40ish hours a week. As more and more people seek lifestyle positions each year, yet current market forces (reimbursements) force practices to work more hours to net the same money, these jobs are likely to be harder and harder to come by each year. Unfortunately people often find you cannot have it all, and have to sacrifice on one aspect or another.

 

[^=^]

no your obviously not ready to be a doctor, i think you should be a coal miner in west virginia

LoL ""they want to interview me, but probably just to reject me""

It's in your mdapplicants

 

[45408]

I heard radiology is becoming more and more competative, but PM&R isnt, and both produce pretty solid hours. I'm more conccerned with hours then I am with salary. If I have to take a pay cut to be with my family thats fine. Im weird like that

Radiology is VERY competitive. If you don't care about the money, you won't have too much trouble finding a lifestyle-friendly specialty. The problem is, most people want big bucks and easy hours, so those are competitive specialties.

 

[jillibean]

4 12 hour shifts for close to 200 grand a year? That sounds a little too good to be true. I've been looking into EM and knew the hours were good, but THIS good? 48 hrs a week, 200 grand a year, you're making around $80 an hour.

I was curious about this myself, and I think it is even better than that, check out these jobs....

http://www.comphealth.com/permanent...tion/0e39e1c234a147ae0010f0a0ac12cdd6c93283ae

http://www.comphealth.com/permanent...tion/0e39e45f2aa147ae0010f0a0ac12cdd6287fd1a8

http://www.comphealth.com/permanent...tion/0e39e49fa5a147ae0010f0a0ac12cdd634a54db1

... and there are lots more in every state

 

[TMP-SMX]

Love your wife, don't be an idiot, and buy her lots of diamonds... The secret(s) to a happy marriage.

O yeah... Add to that knowing you are wrong before arguments start and that it's up to you to make the sex any good.

Bliss

 

[instigata]

I was curious about this myself, and I think it is even better than that, check out these jobs....

http://www.comphealth.com/permanent...tion/0e39e1c234a147ae0010f0a0ac12cdd6c93283ae

http://www.comphealth.com/permanent...tion/0e39e45f2aa147ae0010f0a0ac12cdd6287fd1a8

http://www.comphealth.com/permanent...tion/0e39e49fa5a147ae0010f0a0ac12cdd634a54db1

... and there are lots more in every state

wait a second let me get this straight...12 - 12/11 hour shifts??? at 125/hour that gets to ~216,000! Do they only work for 12 days or do they have to help out in the hospital the rest of the time?

 

[jillibean]

wait a second let me get this straight...12 - 12/11 hour shifts??? at 125/hour that gets to ~216,000! Do they only work for 12 days or do they have to help out in the hospital the rest of the time?

All the ER docs I know only work 12-14 days/month... the rest of the time they can hang out with their family.

 

[NexusMD]

All the ER docs I know only work 12-14 days/month... the rest of the time they can hang out with their family.

Wow, thats incredible. That seems to be something I could handle. with 12-16 days off, it would be ideal. I'm ok with that. I didnt know EM paid that well with good hours (relatively). I dont mind long shifts, as long as I get time off as well.

 

[Law2Doc]

Wow, thats incredible. That seems to be something I could handle. with 12-16 days off, it would be ideal. I'm ok with that. I didnt know EM paid that well with good hours (relatively). I dont mind long shifts, as long as I get time off as well.

Bear in mind that the 12 hour shifts (or longer) are not daytime hours in many/most cases. So you spend a lot of the following day sleeping in. The pay is good because the business hours are less desirable.

 

[NexusMD]

Bear in mind that the 12 hour shifts (or longer) are not daytime hours in many/most cases. So you spend a lot of the following day sleeping in. The pay is good because the business hours are less desirable.

Really? Wouldnt it seem more intelligent to have them be split 50/50 daytime/night time hours?

 

[nursetodoc]

Love your wife, don't be an idiot, and buy her lots of diamonds... The secret(s) to a happy marriage.

O yeah... Add to that knowing you are wrong before arguments start and that it's up to you to make the sex any good.

Bliss

 

[nursetodoc]

Bear in mind that the 12 hour shifts (or longer) are not daytime hours in many/most cases. So you spend a lot of the following day sleeping in. The pay is good because the business hours are less desirable.

Gotta tell ya, RN here who works 12 hr shifts. Night shifts are a bit tough, but working 16 days a month as a physician whether day or night=priceless!

 

[Cirrus83]

Really? Wouldnt it seem more intelligent to have them be split 50/50 daytime/night time hours?

lol it is sort of split...it's a really long shift usually.

Anyways, truth is that by the time you're like 40, pulling those crazy long all nighters is probably gonna hurt a little more than you think it will now.

On a side note, I'm a guy and I totally wouldn't mind the physical side of being pregnant. Well, I wouldn't be ultra happy about bloating up, but I wouldn't really be distressed methinks. Plus, all those nice hormones help keep your mood fairly stable during pregnancy so I'll be quite happy

And I'd probably try to give birth without an epidural...cuz I'm hardcore yo =p (plus my mom did it without an epidural, so I can't really be a wuss about it).

 

[NexusMD]

Gotta tell ya, RN here who works 12 hr shifts. Night shifts are a bit tough, but working 16 days a month as a physician whether day or night=priceless!

Yea, im sure night shifts are hard, and 12 hour shifts are brutal as well, but being off for about half a month has to be great. How is the lifestyle for PM&R? I heard it was quite good. I heard good things about opthamology as well, but apparently thats extremely competative also.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yea, im sure night shifts are hard, and 12 hour shifts are brutal as well, but being off for about half a month has to be great.

It's not like you are off in a block, in general. You have three 12 hour shifts per week. So we are talking about almost every other night, often from early evening until dawn. And not necessarilly weekends off -- the shifts of days on and off just alternate right through. At least that's the schedule of the ED doc I know who works such a job. You go home, sleep it off, have a day off and then back to work. The pay is cushy for the hours, at least partly because the hours are less desirable for many. But I suppose it does maximize your time at home during the day (awake or not) if eg you have small kids.

 

[Terpskins99]

Radiology is notorious for being lifestyle friendly.

Pathology (hah, some of those guys don't report to work till noon).

Different fields of medicine require different amount of work schedules. But generally speaking, yes... most disciplines in medicine (keyword: DISCIPLINE) will require you to wake up a little earlier than some of your non-physican buddies, along with dealing with being on-call every couple of nights a month (if not every other week like the interventional cardiologists).

Honestly, if its just the money and the recognition that attracts you to this job, I'm telling you... that'll grow old REAL fast.

 

[Law2Doc]

Radiology is notorious for being lifestyle friendly.

Pathology (hah, some of those guys don't report to work till noon).

Different fields of medicine require different amount of work schedules. But generally speaking, yes... most disciplines in medicine (keyword: DISCIPLINE) will require you to wake up a little earlier than some of your non-physican buddies, along with dealing with being on-call every couple of nights a month (if not every other week like the interventional cardiologists).

Honestly, if its just the money and the recognition that attracts you to this job, I'm telling you... that'll grow old REAL fast.

Here's a JAMA table showing average hours for a variety of specialties from a couple of years ago. Still fairly accurate today, I believe. Most of them factor in much more senior folks and so are skewed lower than you will find yourself working right out of residency, and for quite a few years thereafter. But as you can see, Radiology is not actually at the low end, "notorious" or not. Derm and Path are, followed by EM, Optho and psych.

 

[nursetodoc]

It's not like you are off in a block, in general. You have three 12 hour shifts per week. So we are talking about almost every other night, often from early evening until dawn. And not necessarilly weekends off -- the shifts of days on and off just alternate right through. At least that's the schedule of the ED doc I know who works such a job. You go home, sleep it off, have a day off and then back to work. The pay is cushy for the hours, at least partly because the hours are less desirable for many. But I suppose it does maximize your time at home during the day (awake or not) if eg you have small kids.

yeah, i'm definetely speaking from the point of view of someone having small children.

 

[NexusMD]

Here's a JAMA table showing average hours for a variety of specialties from a couple of years ago. Still fairly accurate today, I believe. Most of them factor in much more senior folks and so are skewed lower than you will find yourself working right out of residency, and for quite a few years thereafter. But as you can see, Radiology is not actually at the low end, "notorious" or not. Derm and Path are, followed by EM, Optho and psych.

Where is this JAMA table located?

As for EM, I guess it has its ups and downs, but for the majority of residency and beyond (if all goes accordingly to plan), I'll have kids. Path may be interesting, no patient interaction, decent hours, and decent pay. And I heard most on-call for path can be done from the home.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

I knew about derm, but psychiatry? Although I enjoy studying behavior disorders and such, im not sure if I would actually do that. I also heard some things about PM&R being able to possibly have a good lifestyle.
As of right now, family is more important to me then career, I'd rather be a business man with a family, then a Dr. w/o one. But right now I want to be a Dr. with a family, and I am just worried that may be asking for too much.

psych is 9-5, relatively good hours and decent pay depending on what exactly you are doing.

 

[sweet2th]

psych is 9-5, relatively good hours and decent pay depending on what exactly you are doing.

I have a friend going into pain medicine...a specialty of psych. her 1st yr residency is brutal!!! i don't think this girl ever sleeps. i can't imagine what it is like for internal med.

 

[sirus_virus]

I have a friend going into pain medicine...a specialty of psych. her 1st yr residency is brutal!!! i don't think this girl ever sleeps. i can't imagine what it is like for internal med.

1st year is brutal regardless of specialty

 

[NexusMD]

1st year is brutal regardless of specialty

Yep, definately heard that as well. Not looking forward to that at all

 

[Law2Doc]

Where is this JAMA table located?

As for EM, I guess it has its ups and downs, but for the majority of residency and beyond (if all goes accordingly to plan), I'll have kids. Path may be interesting, no patient interaction, decent hours, and decent pay. And I heard most on-call for path can be done from the home.

Oops. http://www.medfriends.org/specialty_hours_worked.htm

 

[MahlerROCKS]

Anyone have ideas?

My Dad does EM and my mother does path: my Dad only works 4 days a week, and my Mom has VERY flexible hours. You might also want to consider rheumatology--the pay isn't that great, but you set your own hours. Personally, I hate children and never plan to start a family, hence why I plan to do an MD, PhD.

 

[NexusMD]

My Dad does EM and my mother does path: my Dad only works 4 days a week, and my Mom has VERY flexible hours. You might also want to consider rheumatology--the pay isn't that great, but you set your own hours. Personally, I hate children and never plan to start a family, hence why I plan to do an MD, PhD.

How many days per month does your dad work? And how long are his normal shifts?

Rheumatology is a speciality of IM right? Its more flexible? I've never heard that, perhaps I'll look into it.

 

[Terpskins99]

Here's a JAMA table showing average hours for a variety of specialties from a couple of years ago. Still fairly accurate today, I believe. Most of them factor in much more senior folks and so are skewed lower than you will find yourself working right out of residency, and for quite a few years thereafter. But as you can see, Radiology is not actually at the low end, "notorious" or not. Derm and Path are, followed by EM, Optho and psych.

Well, I never said radiology was notorious for having low hours. I said it was lifestyle friendly. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a radiologist that would disagree (maybe some of the interventional guys).

 

[Law2Doc]

Well, I never said radiology was notorious for having low hours. I said it was lifestyle friendly. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a radiologist that would disagree (maybe some of the interventional guys).

Most people consider shorter hours to be equivalent to lifestyle friendly. Certainly that's what is meant when speaking about, say, derm. In that respect, radiology is not in the same league. But radiology is certainly still not surgery.

 

[45408]

Personally, I hate children and never plan to start a family, hence why I plan to do an MD, PhD.

time to get sterilized

 

[oxeye]

lOn a side note, I'm a guy and I totally wouldn't mind the physical side of being pregnant. Well, I wouldn't be ultra happy about bloating up, but I wouldn't really be distressed methinks. Plus, all those nice hormones help keep your mood fairly stable during pregnancy so I'll be quite happy

Okay, a little thread hijack here - but DUDE!! I hope you were kidding!! I've never been more all over the map emotionally in my life than when I was pregnant.

 

[NexusMD]

Most people consider shorter hours to be equivalent to lifestyle friendly. Certainly that's what is meant when speaking about, say, derm. In that respect, radiology is not in the same league. But radiology is certainly still not surgery.

lol, thats pretty much exactly what i consider a better lifestyle. Shorter hours and a more fixed/controllable schedule is ideal.