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You’re fine. Work hard, be personable. Speak when spoken to.Level 1: 55*
Level 2: pending
I’ve got 3-4 auditions at historical DO programs set up now
Thanks man, it just feels surreal honestly.Apply broadly. It’s not over until the match email says it’s over
Home program would be an affiliated program with OP’s school? Since very few DO schools have true home programs, for example my school has “home program for surgery “ but it’s just a community former AOA program that’s one our core sites and likes taking our students. OP should def do one of their Sub-I’s at such an affiliated program.Alright, I'm going to be the cold water here: https://public.tableau.com/app/prof.../ChartingOutcomes_osteo_2020/ChartingOutcomes . For a US DO student with a Level 1 score 550-599 and step 1 220-229, your chance of matching is abut 63%. When you add in a step 2 score of 220-229, your chance of matching falls to 20% (out of only 5 applicants who even bothered applying with those scores over the last 5 years). You are on the low end of the 550-599 range.
Neither 63% or 20% are zero... but you are taking a massive risk if you choose to apply. This is where knowing about the rest of your app and how well-liked you are by your home program plays a huge role into what you should do here. By far, your best shot is going to be if your home program loves you and seems willing to help you out because they believe you're better than those scores. If the feedback from your home program is tepid at best, then you need to be realistic and ask how you can reasonably expect another program that DOESN'T know you to take a chance on you. The cold truth is that there are more students that want to go into surgery than spots in surgical residencies, and not everyone gets the specialty they were hoping for.
You need to pick one of four paths:
-The easiest (and possibly smartest) path is changing specialties.
-Option 2 is dual-apply to surgery and a less competitive specialty; this will increase your chances of matching overall, but may diminish your chances at surgery since you're not going to spend the next two months maximizing your surgery app because you're throwing together a secondary application.
-Option 3 is go all-in for surgery, do your best to ingratiate yourself at your home program, and apply to every community program in the country; this will maximize your chances of surgery, but you accept the risk of either SOAPing into something else or winding up with an unplanned gap year. You should talk to your school NOW if you're considering this path to figure out if they would allow you to extend your graduation in case you fail to match or SOAP.
-Finally, option 4 is looking into the feasibility of pulling out of 4th year and do a research year. This would allow you to demonstrate commitment to surgery, ingratiate yourself with your home program, and gauge whether or not they like you well enough to keep you. Then you can pick from among the first 3 options at the end of the research year. The obvious downside is you are spending a year of your life without assuring yourself of any payoff at the end.
Tough spot to be in. Best of luck to you.
Yes that’s what I mean by home program in this case. Basically a place that may know him better and be willing to take a chance despite scoresHome program would be an affiliated program with OP’s school? Since very few DO schools have true home programs, for example my school has “home program for surgery “ but it’s just a community former AOA program that’s one our core sites and likes taking our students. OP should def do one of their Sub-I’s at such an affiliated program.
As I said above—talk to your school NOW about a contingency plan of what your options will be if you fail to match and/or SOAP. This is a rational choice, as at least you will be able to sleep at night knowing you took your shot. But you need to have plan B lined up.I appreciate the responses everyone. I have been thinking long and hard and think I am going all in with general surgery + a bunch of prelims.
This is not the way I wanted to go but I cannot talk myself into applying to anything else.
Yeahtotally random question. Why do people only give a range of their board scores when they report them on SDN? Isn't 220 a big difference compared to 229?
I would apply to 40. Try and find places that have a track record of placing their prelims. Some places simply use the prelims as scut monkeys for a year and will not help you get a spot.Thanks everyone.
What is a healthy number of prelims to apply to in my situation because I honestly don't know?
Should I only apply to places where I applied to their categorical?
Privacy.totally random question. Why do people only give a range of their board scores when they report them on SDN? Isn't 220 a big difference compared to 229?
Anywhere you recommend finding that info? Or do I just have to do a lot of digging?I would apply to 40. Try and find places that have a track record of placing their prelims. Some places simply use the prelims as scut monkeys for a year and will not help you get a spot.
A lot of diggingAnywhere you recommend finding that info? Or do I just have to do a lot of digging?
It does actually. Once you match a secondary specialty it’s over.And it doesn't really increase your chances of actually getting surgery.
My only thought would be if you switched to IM and then basically focused all your energy into doing something like interventional cards or EP. Those are pretty close to surgery from my understanding, but obviously there is a lot of not surgery that you would have to do beforehandIt does actually. Once you match a secondary specialty it’s over.
Most US prelims do actually get positions. It just may not be surgery. Personally, I’d leave medicine before doing a non-surgical specialty. I get why people would want to take a second crack at a categorical surgery spot before throwing in the towel completely.
No, not really. Procedures aren’t surgeryThose are pretty close to surgery from my understanding,
In addition to not really being surgery, those fellowships are also exceedingly competitive.My only thought would be if you switched to IM and then basically focused all your energy into doing something like interventional cards or EP. Those are pretty close to surgery from my understanding, but obviously there is a lot of not surgery that you would have to do beforehand
And what is your plan if you fail to match a second time?I would rather put in a year of preliminary and have a second go around than apply to a back up at this time
When you have such drastic variance in scores, you don't have a ton of data. Nobody in the interactive charting outcomes had that exact score distribution in the last 5 years. FWIW, excluding comlex scores the odds are 77%, and interestingly enough rise to 86% when you include comlex 1.I hope the OP doesn't mind my jumping on this thread. I have a friend that is also in a similar conundrum.
His Comlex 1 is 59* and Comlex 2 is 49*. His USMLE I & II are 23* and 24* respectively. So, is he screwed for surgery?
None of the 3 applicants with exactly your score distribution matched. Showing the power of small sample sizes, 4/6 who had a level 1 score 500-549 DID match, so maybe you could imagine your odds are closer to 4/9 or just under 50/50. Again... I would say these are highly selected applicant pools, where they only applied if they knew that there was something else in their application that was going to make them stand out (very strong signals from home or affiliated program, significant research, etc). Ultimately only you can weigh those specifics.Level 2 is 57* for what it’s worth at this point.
You can either report both USMLE scores, or neither. FWIW, if you input your comlex scores and put in a "null" USMLE score, you get a match rate in the 70s%, though again small sample size with 9 applicants. Again, I cannot overstate the importance of the signals you get from programs that you have close connections to.I suppose I should still report my Step 2 right? Or is not reporting Steps even still a thing?
Report your Step if you have even a single MD program on your list.I suppose I should still report my Step 2 right? Or is not reporting Steps even still a thing?
Yes. Many have the same cutoff for Level 2 as Level 1Do DO programs filter applicants by Comlex II score? Or is it a more holistic review taking into account Comlex I, Step scores, LoRs etc.?
Thanks for your message.Yes. Many have the same cutoff for Level 2 as Level 1
MD programs will only really care about Step. DO programs might hold it against you to varying degreesThanks for your message.
Just so I understand it fully, if someone has a decent set of Step scores, a good Level 1 but a poor Level 2, will they not even get a look?
This data does not exist, or at least is not publicly available. You're going to need to ask your mentors which programs they have seen students land categorical spots from, and also ask that question of the prelim programs you interview with.Mini hijack OP but it may help you too. Imma applying to some prelim surgery too, anyone on here know any decent programs that wont use me as nothing but scut for a year and could help me land categorical in the future? or at least any programs to absolutely avoid at all costs lol. Ive been looking but honestly have not found a lot of helpful info.
Hahah no worries, I can't find too much info that is real promising either as of yet.Mini hijack OP but it may help you too. Imma applying to some prelim surgery too, anyone on here know any decent programs that wont use me as nothing but scut for a year and could help me land categorical in the future? or at least any programs to absolutely avoid at all costs lol. Ive been looking but honestly have not found a lot of helpful info.
Almost certainly will be program dependent. I would suspect that community programs in less desirable locations would be more likely to care, but it's honestly just speculation.Hahah no worries, I can't find too much info that is real promising either as of yet.
Does anyone know if the "signals" or "geographic preference" on ERAS supplemental actually carry any weight or is just something to stress med students out with that no one will actually pay attention to?
Freaking awesome. Hopefully a few more come in. Exciting times. I look forward to a write up similar to DOVinciRobots when you match.Just an update for those of you who cared enough to help me out, I am currently sitting on 10 interviews with 11 invites (conflict of dates with the 11th interview that I am trying to work out).
Hoping more are still on the way!
Bruh do not delete this post as indicated by the edit to the original post. Let this be inspiration to those of us coming after you.Just an update for those of you who cared enough to help me out, I am currently sitting on 10 interviews with 11 invites (conflict of dates with the 11th interview that I am trying to work out).
Hoping more are still on the way!
Hopefully I will be able to make a thread in March with even better news and a write up.Bruh do not delete this post as indicated by the edit to the original post. Let this be inspiration to those of us coming after you.
Sticky if anything, but damn sure don't delete this.
It does actually. Once you match a secondary specialty it’s over.
UPDATE***
Had a lot of support here so figured I’d provide a quick update. Not planning a write up or anything at this time but I matched a categorical spot!!!