Am I too old to go to Optometry School

[Shnurek]

Well now I specified my recommendation of "doing it". The statements are not contradictory just the first one was more general. Its all about if opto is good for YOU. Don't worry about other people. You make the decision and deal with the consequences whether they be good or bad.

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[Tippytoe]

To the original poster, no you are not too old to go to optometry school. But also you are not too old to go to any other professional school. Fact is, Optometry is a dying profession. Our services and even more so, our products have been farmed out to the lowest bidders and there are many, many low ball bidders willing to take the $10 fee that we used to get $100 for.

Optometry = typewriters
or
Optometry = snail mail.

Yes, maybe regular postal service mail is a better comparision to optometry. US Mail is hurting because technology has passed them by(not to mention terrible workers). Instant email, texts and faxes have taken the place of weeklong mail delivery.

Similarly, commercial eyewear delivery that is done much cheaper (volume) and faster has taken the eyewear away from ODs in general. Advanced technology has or will take away many or most of our services in the near future. As it stands right now, a high school tech can refract, take a retinal photo (Optos) and anterior seg photo (ie, gather all the data), and whatever cool new instrument that comes out soon and email them to an OMD in India and the exam is done . No OD needed. Cost will probably be $25.

Trust me. Optometry is dying a slow but sure death. So age need not be a factor for you The choice is the only factor. The U.S. desperately needs family docs (or PAs) and if that's not intersting to you, dentists still have it 10x better than ODs do (maybe not forever though).

 

[Shnurek]

As it stands right now, a high school tech can refract, take a retinal photo (Optos) and anterior seg photo (ie, gather all the data), and whatever cool new instrument that comes out soon and email them to an OMD in India and the exam is done . No OD needed. Cost will probably be $25.

Pffft. That's what the radiologists have been saying for decades. You don't see them suffering. They still look at X-rays, MRIs and CT scans all day, don't export them to India or some other country and make the big bucks.

 

[Jason K]

Pffft. That's what the radiologists have been saying for decades. You don't see them suffering. They still look at X-rays, MRIs and CT scans all day, don't export them to India or some other country and make the big bucks.

I'm good friends with a radiologist. He's mentioned the concern to me in passing, but radiologists are not worried about their profession being taken over by technology, and they certainly haven't been worried about it "for decades." The internet has only been mainstream for about 15 years. For one thing, there aren't enough radiologists out there for this to be a problem in the first place. There are about 35K practicing ODs in the US right now. That number will nearly DOUBLE in the not too distant future if nothing changes. That's - DOUBLE, as in....twice as many as there are now. Even if the possibility of technology replacing ODs never happens (and I think it likely will happen at some point), it doesn't matter.

The sad reality is, although it's likely to be an issue eventually, we don't need technology to step in and make us obsolete. We've sunk ourselves by letting our profession grow out of control for too long. It's the future ODs who will pay the price for the mistakes of those who went before them. I'm including myself in the "future ODs" category because right now is by no means a "turning point." The problems plaguing optometry have been around since I started school and even before - they've just gotten measurably worse since then and they continue to worsen in the future.

I can't wait to hear the AOA's take on the new manpower study they've ordered. I'm sure I and every other practicing OD in the US will get a few laughs out of it....

 

[Shnurek]

I can't wait to hear the AOA's take on the new manpower study they've ordered. I'm sure I and every other practicing OD in the US will get a few laughs out of it....

I'm sure it will indicate an oversupply but I think maldistribution is a bigger problem than oversupply. You don't make money without taking risks...

Also as a sidenote, radiologists have bigger problems on their hands: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/13/health/prescription-for-cheating/index.html

 

[Jason K]

I'm sure it will indicate an oversupply but I think maldistribution is a bigger problem than oversupply. You don't make money without taking risks...

FAIL! Maldistribution is not the primary problem. Most places that could stand an OD moving into town are in unpopulated areas. They could certainly stand and OD, but can't support one since the population is not sufficient to support the high overhead of an optometric practice.

What you want to hear is that there's booming opportunity for new OD grads out there in the sticks. While there is certainly more opportunity in rural areas, it's by no means a saving grace for optometry. The "good" gaps could likely be filled in with one single graduating class from each of the larger OD programs.

Oversupply is the problem. It's affecting optometry in all areas, urban, rural, and everything in between. Unless you practice on the moon and you take no insurance plans whatsoever, the oversupply problem will get you. It's all connected.

As an aside, the ridiculous manpower study ordered by our mighty AOA will amount to nothing. No matter what the data say, they'll spin it. Either that or they'll do what they did with the last one they ordered; they'll hide in their basement.

 

[319671]

when did you start opt school jason k?

 

[hugs]

Shrunek, I didn't mean to generalize, however at the time of my post, those who said don't do it, did state their age or stats of the school where the median age is 27, at the oldest, what some fail to notice is that median is the average, not the highest..

 

[Shnurek]

median is the average, not the highest..

Median ≠ Average
fail

But ya I understand your point

 

[Tippytoe]

Pffft. That's what the radiologists have been saying for decades. You don't see them suffering. They still look at X-rays, MRIs and CT scans all day, don't export them to India or some other country and make the big bucks.

I don't know. The radiologist I use has 3 imaging centers around the area. He has his techs do the scans and sends them to him (he might be in his bedroom in pajamas for all I know). And he sends a report back. Nice guy. I'd LOVE his job. I see no reason optometrists can't do this. Tech gather all the data (like they do in OMD and some OD office currently). They can send it to the OD at home and BAM, exam is done. Spec Rx given to pt to go wherever they want. The OD could see 10 times as many exams as going into an office and meeting and greeting all day.

But who cares about radiologist? No one even brought that up. Listen, for what it's worth, and no matter who believes it, MDs are the highest on the totem pole. Always have been. Always will be. They will take are of themselves. They (OMDs in particular) benefit by ODs not being in existance. They have been fighting us for 100 years.

 

[CL Doc]

I don't know. The radiologist I use has 3 imaging centers around the area. He has his techs do the scans and sends them to him (he might be in his bedroom in pajamas for all I know). And he sends a report back. Nice guy. I'd LOVE his job. I see no reason optometrists can't do this. Tech gather all the data (like they do in OMD and some OD office currently). They can send it to the OD at home and BAM, exam is done. Spec Rx given to pt to go wherever they want. The OD could see 10 times as many exams as going into an office and meeting and greeting all day.

But who cares about radiologist? No one even brought that up. Listen, for what it's worth, and no matter who believes it, MDs are the highest on the totem pole. Always have been. Always will be. They will take are of themselves. They (OMDs in particular) benefit by ODs not being in existance. They have been fighting us for 100 years.

Some have been promoting this type of model for optometry, of course we would need a lot fewer ODs.

 

[Jason K]

Some have been promoting this type of model for optometry, of course we would need a lot fewer ODs.

I'm not too worried. According to Dori Carlson and our fearless AOA leaders, optometry "owns 3D." We own it, baby! I think she purchased it on behalf of the AOA for a bargain basement price from a group of OMDs that sold it out of the back of a moving van in a Walmart parking lot - as is, no warranty.

I'm sure that bold statement sent shivers through the spines of the AAO and all practicing ophthalmologists. She bravely laid claim to something that at least .0001% of US households have access to. I get excited thinking about all of the phorometry I'll be doing when the unhappy 3% of of that .0001% comes see me.

.....So really, we're all set no matter what happens.

 

[Tippytoe]

I think many students and pre-students need to know that after many, many years of publication, the American Optometric Association (AOA) is stopping the publishing of the Journal of the AOA dues to lack of funds. They lost their only advertiser.
The AOA is running out of money because so many members (ODs) have dropped out. It's hard to pay thousands of dollars of dues each year when your trying to make the increased rent payment, increased salaries, increased utilities, increased supplies, increased equipment cost, increase loan payments....etc.... with NO increase in exam or eyewear fees at all--- EVER!!

The AOA Board of Trustees has decided to discontinue the publication of the AOA journal, Optometry on June 1st. They can not afford to publish it any longer. So many dues-paying members, dissatisfied with their non-sense and lack of representation have halted the money flow to the optometric elite. Another nail in the proverbial coffin.

 

[Tony244]

Fristly about AGE:

Yes it SUCKS to be older then 20 and trying to pursue a NEW career. this is for sure - but it only sucks because it is what society makes us believe for one, and because naturally our bodies can not hold the same pressures we can at 40 compared to when we were 20..

BUT to be positive..every year that goes by, you have to think how many people passed away your age and younger then you, and will never be your age and have the oppurtunity to do what you are doing. This may sound bad cause i am talking about death. but look at Syria, thousands of people the age 0 to 100 are dying due to war, same as Iraq, Vietnam, and so many more countries. So if you are 25, think of the person that will never be 25, you are luck, if you can do it DO IT.

Secondly, about the Profession and being disappointeed with what you thought it would be. I hate to break it to all of you guys, but as humans YOU WILL ALWAYS BE DISAPPOINTED, nothing is what it seems in your imagination. THis goes for medical school, optometry, pharmacy, acting, or even driving the most expensive car - trust me. you have to FIND YOUR PASSION and go for it. Even dating the most besst looking women or man, is not what you think it is going to be. There are alot of down falls in optometry and also medicine, and working at wal-mart making 75,000$ a year to do a comfortable respectable job, is way better then working at tim hortons making 75,000$ a year working long hours and getting no respect. they obviously dont make the same income, but i am using the same income to stress a point.

You will always be disappointed, you just have to find your passion, and find the love in the little things. optometry is an AMAZING FIELD.and if you have the chance to do it DO IT..

and for everyone that is from CANADA OR AMERICA and says things like - you are too old - the profession is not good - then you guys need to experience the world a little more. I traveled to Spain recently and I met TWO MEDICAL DOCTORS who are working in a FACTORY becuase the salary for being a doctor can not support their families.. so you are so lucky to be in canada, even if you work at tim hortons..

so do it if you can.. life is way to short..dont stress at all. becuase you never know when you will pass away - trust me someone RIGHT NOW as i right this email with the dream of becoming a doctor, lawyer, optometrist, pizza store owner whatever, just passed away - so you are lucky!! GO FOR IT

 

[Shnurek]

Tony, I like what you said and it is very true. People need to just chill out and relax. Stop hating on professions. Just do what you like.

 

[Tippytoe]

Fristly about AGE:


Secondly, about the Profession and being disappointeed with what you thought it would be. I hate to break it to all of you guys, but as humans YOU WILL ALWAYS BE DISAPPOINTED, nothing is what it seems in your imagination.

Wow, you will never be happy? Always disappointed? That's about the saddest post I've ever read. They have anti-depressant for that you know.

Totally wrong however. You can be very happy (and you should be). I'm extremely satisfied in the wife I chose. Having children was much better than I expected. My new Camaro is much faster and more comfortable than I expected. I love life.

The profession of Optometry. Not so much. Because I was gifted with an average IQ, I can see the trends of various industries. I predict home phones will continue to go obsolute as people chose to only have cell phones. (No doubt I wouldn't get a warm reception on a home phone forum predicting their misfortune......but it doesn't make it any less true).

I predict computers will continue to get faster and smarter. I predict our gov't to be more intrusive over time. I predict Optometry (based on observation, reading, intelligence and working the field) will continue to decline in pay and prestige as it has done over the past decade (via info posted previously from industry sources).

All this is not feeling disappointed. It's using common sense and looking down the road. The writing is clearly on the wall for anyone that takes the time to read it. The disappointment is not so much in Optometry the profession as it is with the Optometrists that ruined it.

Man I really do feel sorry for you though if you have the mindset that you will always be disappointed in life. Wow!

 

[balltc]

In some ways what he says is true. I think the overall point was to see past the negatives and not take opportunities for granted, especially considering that many don't have these types of chances in life.

 

[Tippytoe]

In some ways what he says is true. I think the overall point was to see past the negatives and not take opportunities for granted, especially considering that many don't have these types of chances in life.

I understand that. True to a point. But you can say that about anything really. You can look at the good at being a garbage man as not letting people live in a nasty world. Just ignore all the bad- stinking...riding on the back of a truck all day..... You're doing good. Even so, you're a low paid garbage man. We need janitors and septic tank cleaners too.

With optometry, you're paying 6 figures for a job that may or may not even be there in 10 years. Or at best for a job in front of the warehouse store working 7 days a week with smelly welfare people. Think about it. Just about anyone in the US can become an optometrist if they really want to.

 

[balltc]

I understand that. True to a point. But you can say that about anything really. You can look at the good at being a garbage man as not letting people live in a nasty world. Just ignore all the bad- stinking...riding on the back of a truck all day..... You're doing good. Even so, you're a low paid garbage man. We need janitors and septic tank cleaners too.

With optometry, you're paying 6 figures for a job that may or may not even be there in 10 years. Or at best for a job in front of the warehouse store working 7 days a week with smelly welfare people. Think about it. Just about anyone in the US can become an optometrist if they really want to.

Exactly, you can pretty much say that about anything. As much as being a garbage man may be unappealing to most of us, there are people out there who would jump at that opportunity because they come from a situation even worse than that, so this is all relative. For people who have lived sheltered existences growing up in middle/upper class families they probably wouldn't be able to comperehend such a thing. I don't want to turn this into a sociology lesson and this may sound cleche, but seriously what would we do without the garbage men, construction workers, truck drivers, etc. If you think about it, these people make it possible for us to differentiate between the third world countries out there and help keep our infrastructure alive. On the flipside some people need to know the difference between being positive and being unreasonably optimistic.

 

[Tippytoe]

Exactly, you can pretty much say that about anything. As much as being a garbage man may be unappealing to most of us, there are people out there who would jump at that opportunity because they come from a situation even worse than that, so this is all relative. For people who have lived sheltered existences growing up in middle/upper class families they probably wouldn't be able to comperehend such a thing. I don't want to turn this into a sociology lesson and this may sound cleche, but seriously what would we do without the garbage men, construction workers, truck drivers, etc. If you think about it, these people make it possible for us to differentiate between the third world countries out there and help keep our infrastructure alive. On the flipside some people need to know the difference between being positive and being unreasonably optimistic.

I think we are mostly in agreement. Unfortunately I think many college students have an unrealistic view of Optometry as a profession. They picture themselves in a nice private office, with a nice clean white coat diagnosing ischemic optic neuropathy and uveitic glaucoma, in between sipping coffee, making $180,000'yr and bringing home $140,000, all while having adoring patients bringing them cookies and flowers every other week.

When in reality, it's 95% "which is better, one or two".
- Then 45 minutes on the phone on-hold with an insurance company that lies to you.

-Then a patient from 6 months ago walks in demanding that you make them new glasses because you screwed them up the first time.

-Then one of your employees doesn't show up to work.

-Your accountant screws up and tells you you owe another $25,000 in taxes on December 27 that is due by the end of the year.

-Then you refract a few more patients and open the mail while they are dilating..

- You interview 25 idiots to find one decent employee.

-There is a letter from Medicare saying they feel they overpaid you and will be withholding your future payments unless you pay them back $1,800 (that was legitimately paid to you for services but you can't argue with the gov't).

- Then a patient brings in a DMV form and expects you to stop everything to fill it out for them for free. If you don't, they will go to the next optometrist down the street.

- A few more refractions and maybe a corneal scratch to liven up the day.

-Then it's back to the desk to find out why the glasses you sent to the lab is not back after 3 weeks. Lab has no idea where it is.Your patient doesn't want to hear it's the labs fault and curses you out and demands their money back. Puts a bad review of your practice on Yelp and Yahoo reviews.

- Then a pt calls to demand a different contact lens then the one you fit her in last week because she saw a commercial on t.v.

-A frame rep comes in to excite you about the latest frames that you MUST have. After her a drug rep wants to talk to you for 30 minutes to tell you how great Restasis is and why every one of your patients has dry eyes if you really look. They MUST have the $130/month Restasis.

- A few more refractions from walk-ins that were gracious enough to allow you to see them. Their EyeMed pays you $45. You only make money if you can upsell them into more expensive glasses. You usually can't and they take whatever the plan offers.

- You see a glaucoma patient that is non-compliant (most are non-compliant). You do a 45 minute visual field for $43 and tell them for the 10th time to use their Travatan-Z (they don't do it because it cost $165 per bottle and they won't even pay their a $15 copay.)

- You realize your receptionist has let 3 people go without paying. You know your chances of getting paid after they leave the office is about 10% so you've lost $400 and you can't make your receptions mad by disciplining her because if she quits, you'd be screwed because good employees are very hard to find and even if you do find a good one it takes 6 months to train them.

- You work all day and make $1,500........but the bills that day were $1,600. You'd be better off not even opening the office some days. At the end of the month, you just hope you took in more than you paid out. Some months you do. Some you don't. Employees, lab, electric, rent, etc.......all gets paid first. YOU get paid only if there is something left over.

THAT's what optometry is really like.

 

[cjensen20]

there was a nice article about a student who is graduating at 69.
http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2012/05/norm_smith_launches_new_career.html

if he can do it, why not anyone else?

 

[AlPacino]

Since when does learning have an age limit?

 

[20DOC20]

Are you too old? No. Become an OD if you really love it. BUT...

Take advice from students with caution because you will exit optometry school with about 100 to 150K of debt that is NOT exempt from any bankruptcy. Your monthly payment could easily be 1200 to 1500 a month. You will need a full time job to pay that in addition to regular expenses. There are scarce full time jobs. In my state there have been about five full time positions offered over the past year.

My advice would be cost to benefit. I would do research and find out how many full time jobs are offered in optometry in your state over past five years to get an average. Truth is hat the number of new ods per yr greatly exceeds jobs.

You will end up broke and in debt after a lot of hard work carried out in vain.

My advice is become a chiropractor. Two dcs who own a practice together told me their practice grosses over a million per yr... in one of the areas hardest hit by the economy.

Optometry is dying because of infighting, eyemarts and managed care plans that force you to charge less for an eye exam than a hair stylist charges for perm.

 

[Loptometriste]

The original post was in 2008. Anyone know if he went to for his pre-req's and applied to Optometry school?

 

[averagestudent8]

Think how ridiculous the opposite sounds "Am I too young for optometry school?" That is the equivalent to your question.

If you have the motivation and drive to excel, who's to say you can't do it?

 

[eyehope08]

I wanted to thank everyone for their comments. I also wanted to add some information based on the comments I received.

1) Financial Concerns - I have invested in both Real Estate and the Stock market for over 25 years now and I am not a spender, so I am lucky enough that I could retire early. I had thought about just doing that, but somehow twiddling my thumbs all day counting my rent and dividend checks does not seem very rewarding. I know I am exaggerating a bit here to make a point, but I think I would get very bored after a few months in retirement. If making as much money as possible was my concern, I would just continue at my current job making a six figure salary and continue investing the money.
2) Age Concerns - Fonzie makes a good point that by the time I obtain my pre-reqs and complete Optometry School I would be in my early 50's. But I view this slightly differently. Lets say I do not go to Optometry School, well in 5-6 years I will still be in my 50s. In other words I will be in my 50s no matter what. The question is when I am in my early 50s, I could be starting what I hope to be an exciting and fulfilling career as an Optometrist or not. As a side note, I work out regularly and eat health so I hope to live at least into my 80s. The one nice feature about being an Optometrist is that when I do get older (not early 50s) I could work part-time. One think I have noticed is that when you are young time seems to pass very slowly, but as you get older time seems to pass by fast. By the time you get to be 46, 5 to 6 years goes by very quickly. By the way Bobbio, is there really a student in your classes that is 64. How is he/she doing??
3) Could I hack going back to School Full Time – This is an excellent point and even though I have taken courses over the years, I have not gone back to school on a full time basis in over 20 years. But I do work a full time job as a System Analyst developing mathematical models, simulation, and coding in both MATLAB and C++. I have one co-worker in his 40's going back school to get his PhD in Mathematics and another co-worker in his 50's going back to school to get his PhD in Engineering. I am thinking that when I go back to college and take the pre-reqs it will give me a good idea of what it will be like going back to school with people in their 20s and determine how difficult it will be. I am actually looking forward to taking Biology, because I never took it in College. One question for the forum; I was thinking about taking the pre-reqs at the 2 year college just down the street. I was going to call the Optometry School about this, but does anyone know if taking the pre-reqs at a 2 year school is looked at differently than if I take them at a 4 year school? I also need to check if they will accept the courses I took 20 years ago.
4) Is Optometry the Best Career Choice for me – Pillow102 makes a great point about talking to the counselors and making sure this is a fit for me. I also read on the forum about shadowing a DR. I do not want to go back to school for 5-6 years, become an Optometrist, to just find out I do not enjoy the field. When I think about the sort of careers, I think I would enjoy, Optometry comes to the top of my list, but I have never worked in an Optometrist office. So I think when I am taking my pre-reqs I will try volunteering or shadowing an Optometrist. I assume most of the students going through Optometry School are going because they believe they will find it a rewarding career and not for the money. I am reading the forum about the plusses and minus about being an Optometrist, but I would like to hear people's experiences in this area.

Sounds like you made up your mind! Follow your heart. You said a few key things in there that show you're fighting to get the forum's approval. Instead of fighting for our approval, instill that belief and that fight in yourself to make the leap! I guarantee you have a lot more drive and will to work than a lot of 20-some year olds who are going through the same process!

 

[ThatGuy01]

Do what you love, love what you do.

Enough said - Go for it.

 

[ThatGuy01]

My advice is become a chiropractor. Two dcs who own a practice together told me their practice grosses over a million per yr... in one of the areas hardest hit by the economy.

LOL a chiropractor? You're funny. That is waste of 100k education in a field that teaches you nothing useful about helping people, only how to bring them back to your office and grab whatever you can out of their deep pockets and gullible mind.

 

[q1we3]

LOL a chiropractor? You're funny. That is waste of 100k education in a field that teaches you nothing useful about helping people, only how to bring them back to your office and grab whatever you can out of their deep pockets and gullible mind.

"helping people"