AMA - Current D.D.S./Ph.D. Student

[shwayne]

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Hi everyone,

I am a current 7th year (D4 year) DDS/PhD student at Michigan. I interviewed at/was accepted to a handful of dual programs circa 2017 and am on here to offer any insight to current applicants.

Let me know if I can help/if you have any questions,
SAH

 

[imarr]

Do you know how many people apply to this and how many people get in? Interested !!

 

[shwayne]

Do you know how many people apply to this and how many people get in? Interested !!

Typically very few (3-5) apply each year but it depends on the program.. recent years have seen a drop bx of COVID but the numbers are increasing! I'd say 1-2/program are accepted on average annually.

 

[imarr]

Typically very few (3-5) apply each year but it depends on the program.. recent years have seen a drop bx of COVID but the numbers are increasing! I'd say 1-2/program are accepted on average annually.

are all programs 7 years?

 

[shwayne]

are all programs 7 years?

Most are 7-8, depending on how long your PhD takes to complete.

 

[ayellowtortuga]

I am currently a d3 and was thinking of applying for a PhD next year, is this program really 5-6 years? I was hoping to do like 4 years for a PhD. Also do you know how my loans would work if I'm doing it this route? Where I graduate with a DDS from one school and go do a PhD afterwards? If I'm applying next year, what are some things I should work on in my last 2 years, maybe in regards to getting accepted for the PhD program?

 

[shwayne]

I am currently a d3 and was thinking of applying for a PhD next year, is this program really 5-6 years? I was hoping to do like 4 years for a PhD. Also do you know how my loans would work if I'm doing it this route? Where I graduate with a DDS from one school and go do a PhD afterwards? If I'm applying next year, what are some things I should work on in my last 2 years, maybe in regards to getting accepted for the PhD program?

Hi @ayellowtortuga,

The timeline will largely depend on your program.. for example, if the school already has a structured dual program then a 4-year track may be feasible; however, if not, a traditional 5-year route is more likely. If the former is true at your school, consider discussing with the PhD program leadership and/or Associate Dean for Research soon as you may be able to submit an application this fall, and if accepted, you could begin your research rotations next summer, for example. Moreover, if your program does not allow this expedited PhD tract then you may just consider applying to a traditional PhD program during your D4 year (4+5 track).

Regarding $, your dental school loans could be put into deferment while you are an enrolled PhD student. Most (not all) dual programs have some funding support. Therefore, again, if your school has a structured dual program, I would contact their office ASAP to work through the logistics and see if you would be eligible for any financial support whilst enrolled in dental school.

In your two years, I would focus on engaging in a research project with a mentor if you haven't already. I've served on the admissions committee here at Michigan for years now and we're looking for folks who are committed to a research career and thus have demonstrated that through their scholarly involvement. Further, primary publications are always encouraged and presenting an symposia/conferences help.

Feel free to DM me if you want to discuss more,
SAH

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I am currently a d3 and was thinking of applying for a PhD next year, is this program really 5-6 years? I was hoping to do like 4 years for a PhD. Also do you know how my loans would work if I'm doing it this route? Where I graduate with a DDS from one school and go do a PhD afterwards? If I'm applying next year, what are some things I should work on in my last 2 years, maybe in regards to getting accepted for the PhD program?

There are many residency programs that combine specialty training with PhD/research training that can be completed in around 5 years. Might be worth looking into if you’re set on a life in academics.

Big Hoss

 

[shwayne]

There are many residency programs that combine specialty training with PhD/research training that can be completed in around 5 years. Might be worth looking into if you’re set on a life in academics.

Big Hoss

Very true, @Big Time Hoosier! Combined some schools also support speciality/PhD training by an institutional K12 grant (NIDCR Institutional K12 Dental Specialty and PhD Programs (DSPP)), which covers tuition, health insurance and provides a stipend. Certainly something to think about if you're still interested during your D4, @ayellowtortuga.

 

[ToothAndNail1]

I’m applying this next cycle but am very interested in dual degree programs. I am wondering what kind of things these schools look for in applicants.

 

[ayellowtortuga]

There are many residency programs that combine specialty training with PhD/research training that can be completed in around 5 years. Might be worth looking into if you’re set on a life in academics.

Big Hoss

Yea that sounds good too, in that case would you get the same training as any other specialist, being able to treat more complex cases while working on a PhD? If so that would be amazing since you could easily transition to private practice if wanting to get out of academia

 

[ayellowtortuga]

Very true, @Big Time Hoosier! Combined some schools also support speciality/PhD training by an institutional K12 grant (NIDCR Institutional K12 Dental Specialty and PhD Programs (DSPP)), which covers tuition, health insurance and provides a stipend. Certainly something to think about if you're still interested during your D4, @ayellowtortuga.

Also, do you think it's possible to work while doing a PhD, especially since I would have my dds? I heard that you can't make more than a certain amount while in school as well? Would it make sense to do that since it would help me maintain my clinical skills as well? But yea definitely that option would be nice if I end up liking any specialties while working in clinic. Also, I ended up looking up some programs and looks like UCLA and Michigan have programs like that, but are there any other schools?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

in that case would you get the same training as any other specialist, being able to treat more complex cases while working on a PhD?

Pretty much. You’re going to do all the things the regular residents do, plus you’ll have additional courses and a much more in depth research experience.

I imagine that perio in particular has more specialty/PhD programs than other specialties.

Big Hoss

 

[shwayne]

Also, do you think it's possible to work while doing a PhD, especially since I would have my dds? I heard that you can't make more than a certain amount while in school as well? Would it make sense to do that since it would help me maintain my clinical skills as well? But yea definitely that option would be nice if I end up liking any specialties while working in clinic. Also, I ended up looking up some programs and looks like UCLA and Michigan have programs like that, but are there any other schools?

Some schools allow moonlighting but it is rare.. the K12 programs are expedited PhDs (only 3 years protected time), so it's unlikely you will have time to practice much prior to beginning your residency training. The K12 trainees at Michigan don't practice at all while they're completing their PhDs because once they're in the clinic, the clinical leadership is pretty unforgiving when it comes to allowing protected time for research (you come before/after hours and on the weekends/over vacations). The website I posted should have a full list but I believe only Michigab, UCLA and Buffalo have the K12. There may be other combined programs; however, they may not provide financial support..

 

[shwayne]

I’m applying this next cycle but am very interested in dual degree programs. I am wondering what kind of things these schools look for in applicants.

Everything one would look for in a traditional DDS application in addition to a commitment and vested interest in pursuing research in your future profession. Having robust research experience prior to applying will boost your chances and mapping out a 5/10 year plan for yourself will provide a vision for the admissions committee.