An ethical dilemma

[Eta Carinae]

, PLEASE don't lose me on this one and tell me this is your argument?? I refuse to believe it to be. It's utterly nonsensical. Ethics in Hollywood, even though my comment was somewhat in jest, with truth in the fact that people out there, are, as, a rule, unethical bastards, is 100% exactly same as in the OR.

Consequences mean zilch in right or wrong. When you make an ethical decision, you take yourself out of the equation and attempt to do the right thing. You know, like stealing candy from a kid, or not. I'm really a bit surprised that you think Right and Wrong in the OR is different from Hollywood, Bosnia, or the Plantation. Ethics, as a whole, whether biomedical or interpersonal or battlefield related, are not situationally dependent. Come on, Co? Right and wrong? That's an easy one.

3) I think I'm going to simply agree to disagree on this one.

D712

^ n; where n=> ∞

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Eta Carinae]

No, she is just saying we should like fat people more. It's the thread within the thread.

I hope I have convincingly demonstrated my undying affection.

I will continue to do so

 

[Eta Carinae]

Sorry..
I won't post here again

what happened, dude?

 

[Eta Carinae]

As for the grammar - it's been rather amusing, although I do hope, for your sake, that your spoken grammar is better. Because if I had a doctor that spoke to me with the grammatical structures you have been using, I'd ask for another doctor, cause I wouldn't be certain that they'd understand the history I gave.

ditto

But I've had it with targeting Americans or foreigners with regard to their grammar on this site. It's pathetic.

I guarantee, I will continue to do so if the sentence is incoherent and incomprehensible.

In the spirit of the French, I feel it is my civic duty to do so here.

This is not a middle school forum. By now we should have at least mastered the basics of sentence construction. You don't have to be a grammatical expert (none of us is) but simple things like appropriate tense, plural forms etc. are minimum, no?

On an ANESTHESIA forum, you will not get away with spelling it, ANSTHIGIAS as riably did.

 

[doctor712]

sorry Doc712, i hate to throw you under the bus but, your naivete is showing

Wholeheartedly disagree, EC. Stakes are different. I never said they weren't. (That was Copro's fabrication.) ETHICS and morals don't change in the OR. Please find, for me, a post where I stated I'm an expert inside the OR? Where I said I know how to quickly decide whether to push sux or watch the person's family scream at me because daddy is dying slowly??? (or whatever example people want to fabricate that I said). Then, and only then, will I surrender the point. What I said was, when dealing with ethical B.S., I'm from LA, land of the make believe, I'm an expert with ethical dilemmas like seeing people steal, rape, plunder, f3ck, kill, cheat, hammer and lie their ways to the top. That does NOT change within an ER, OR, research setting, clinic or hospital. Life and death medical decisions go to Copro. I never said they didn't. Right and wrong? Been making those decisions as long as he, maybe longer.

With age, not youth, comes wisdom, so, I question your naivete comment, and raise you one LARGE BUS .

D712

 

[Narcotized]

The bible sanctioned slavery. Also putting to death people for working on the sabbath. That may have represented the best ethical and moral wisdom of its time.

.

 

[doctor712]

ditto


I guarantee, I will continue to do so if the sentence is incoherent and incomprehensible.

In the spirit of the French, I feel it is my civic duty to do so here.

This is not a middle school forum. By now we should have at least mastered the basics of sentence construction. You don't have to be a grammatical expert (none of us is) but simple things like appropriate tense, plural forms etc. are minimum, no?

On an ANESTHESIA forum, you will not get away with spelling it, ANSTHIGIAS as riably did.

I actually had you, Eta, in mind, in part, when I was giving Licorice a hard time with his grammar comments toward your enemy, Bialystock. Someone was correcting you in a recent thread, could have been this one even, can't recall. I think that you feel my ripping on Licorice was a vote for R'stock and against you, it wasn't.

Nevertheless, this forum is full of premeds, MD students, residents, fellows, attendings. Each with their own grasp of the english language. To pick on grammar seems ridiculous. Especially with those who aren't native speakers. You guys sure would have a feast on all the Nobel Laureates out there who have awful grammatical skills, and have their editors rewrite their Nobel.org autobiographies, because they come from non english-speaking countries. Seems shortsighted to me. I'd like the full picture before I jump to judge. As Licorice so deftly put it with R'stock.

D712

 

[Eta Carinae]

I actually had you, Eta, in mind, in part, when I was giving Licorice a hard time with his grammar comments toward your enemy, Someone was correcting you in a recent thread, could have been this one even, can't recall.
D712

Who do you claim you write for?

You should be able to differentiate between grammar and spelling, a**wipe .

The gay guy on the thread was trying to correct my spelling.
AND HE was wrong!

While I'm no grammar expert, I doubt anyone will be correcting my grammar anytime soon.

Here, I've posted the thread for you, you can look it up.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=687396



btw, your naivete is still showing; this time wrt the English language!

 

[deleted126335]

I don't buy that. I'm sure there were plenty of morally conscious independent thinking people that knew the bible was full of it sanctioning slavery.

If you really believe what you write, then shouldn't you stand up for Muslims right to fly planes into American buildings so they can get their 73 virgins in heaven under the ethics of their bible?

I do believe what I write. I have no doubt that the people who flew the planes on 9/11 felt that they were acting in an ethical and moral manner and that their cause and methods were just. I just don't believe what they believe.

 

[Eta Carinae]

If you really believe what you write, then shouldn't you stand up for Muslims right to fly planes into American buildings so they can get their 73 virgins in heaven under the ethics of their bible?

oooooh, I wander if they specify male or female virgins. Otherwise, some of those idiots are seerriiiiioooouuuussly screwed.

 

[Planktonmd]

I am not sure how we got from discussing doing anesthesia on a trial attorney to the subject of Islamic fanatics and their motives!!!

Some times I wish people would actually have a clue about a subject before they start discussing it.
I know, I know it is too much to wish for so please carry on.

 

[Narcotized]

I am not sure how we got from discussing doing anesthesia on a trial attorney to the subject of Islamic fanatics and their motives!!!

Some times I wish people would actually have a clue about a subject before they start discussing it.
I know, I know it is too much to wish for so please carry on.

.

 

[coprolalia]

Is it "legal" to post people's butts on this forum?

As hard as I'm trying to ignore Eta Carinae's posts as I scan through these threads, now I'm obviously being subjected to seeing a dude's ass. Please, make it stop. I want to gouge my eyes out.

-copro

 

[Eta Carinae]

For a while there, we thought you'd abandoned the kids.

Not because the hypocrisy isn't glaring-

i didn't hear you complain about the breasts on previous posts!!!!!!!!!!!!

But for the sake of others, I'll take down the larger one!

 

[Eta Carinae]

If you're going to ignore someone, don't announce it to the world. Just STFU and do it. Because, when you inevitably later read their posts and/or comment on what is said, even in a circumferential way, you only look like a little cry-baby. This is tangentially the type of poosee behavior that I blasted Plank for. Stop it. That's the only reason I went on my current warpath: I can't stand hypocrisy and this "holier than thou" b.s.

As hard as I'm trying to ignore Eta Carinae's posts as I scan through these threads

Then again, as the above shows, hypocrisy is nothing new to you.

I have plenty more examples, but, I think it's pretty self-evident following last week's tirade.

 

[doctor712]

Eta Carinae;9020557]Who do you claim you write for....
bla bla bla.



Hahahahaa, um, okay, Eta. So, when you disagree, your knee jerk reaction is to question the validity of someone's writing work and call me an a**wipe????!? IS that REALLLLLY the best YOU GOT?????? And then, in the same breath, question my naivete????

I'm going click ignore with you, Eta (I'll pop that cherry tonight); I've been on this forum for a year now and I've gained, as a pre-med, a certain level of trust with these members. I'm not about to stoop to your level - somewhere between a Morlock and Hobbit, and go down YOUR road. It's been real. Been there, done that. When I was a CHILD.

Toodles.
D712

 

[TenaciousGirl]

I almost never reply to posts off topic, this makes the 2nd time in about 275 posts, but I feel the need. And it's early. And I'm bored and Licorice annoyed me.

I'll sit by quietly when Plank and Copro are chewing each other up, there's history there, they are leaders on the forum, it's funny, it goes beyond personal to the insane, whatevs.

But a few things in Licorice's post seem out of whack. Granted, Bialystock went off the deep end and seemed to swing her pendulum rather quickly! But I don't know where she is coming from and why she felt the need to get so defensive, but, ya know what, I'll throw her a bone. Anyone who hops onto the front line to triage the decapitated deserves that from me, I get it.
She is probably narcissistic and ******ed, but you know what? I'm narcissistic and ******ed. Most of us here are. You know what I dislike more than that narcissistic and ******ed? Closed-minded and My-s$hit-don't stink. So, I pick you this time, and not Bialystock.

The half-assed "shoot down" of the war vet comparing battle field conditions with getting through a fat persons l.flavum seems foolish to me. And no, before all my Anesthesia pals jump down my throat, that's NOT where I'm going. I (intelligence-wise, and so much more) worship the ground Anesthesiologists walk on. I think they are the most intelligent, capable, aware, stress-worthy doctors out there!!! The best. Period. Did I say smartest? Did I say finest? Good luck having a community pediatrician tell you about deep physiology stuff. NOT a shot against them, an example. Or anyone else who has decided to plunk down 250K in student loans to HELP people. BUT, to even ATTEMPT to try and "one up" the difficulties you have on a daily basis, even if they are WAR LIKE conditions in the OR, and I say that seriously, 20 years of war-like stress day in and out, to me, is uncalled for, when someone went out there and actually stepped FOOT onto the actual (guns and s$hit) battlefield. And I'll tell you what, Licorice, I have a feeling you are a vet yourself, which makes your post to me seem even more ridiculous. Why? Because to do what you did is an absolute insult. Let the Vet get it out of her system, don't attempt to one up those conditions. You have your own, she has her own. Do you REALLY wanna win that fight?

I'm more inclined to say that I find tidbits that I can swallow easier in your second paragraph. Except this pearl:
"complex medical conditions (including things like obesioty - because people with those type sof conditions aren't out on the battlefield getting shot at)." You're kidding right? Do you realize how asinine that sounds? So, yes, I think I've said enough about how adept Anesthesiologists are at treating complex medical conditions, but to throw sh(t in the face of someone because they are not helping a certain group of people on the battlefield because that population of BMI+50ers doesn't sign up? You know who that leaves on the battlefield to get shot at Licorice? COMBAT MEDICS (et al.) Even ones who quote the Oath. Period.

Ok, now this: what makes you think that the US is portraying Christian values - it's an incredibly secular country and one of the reasons that some other nations around the world hate the US is because the values that are portrayed on their television screens (in news, documentaries, entertainment) are about as far from Christian values as you can get. Have you BEEN in the US lately? Fact: 8 out of every 10 people in the US are Christian. I'm not. Opinion: If you remove NY, LA and Boca Raton, Fl, you can probably make that 9.3 out of every 10 people in the US as Christian. What the hell does secularism have to do with the population of Christians in the US? Do you think our media, the folks who get the messages from the US out to Al Qaeda, are secular? You must be KIDDING me. Yes, the US is secular by definition, but do you really think the people you speak of, the people who hate us, care that we are fighting over whether or not to take "Under God" out of the pledge? Or remove, "In God we Trust," from a $2 bill. If there is view coming from the US, whether moral-based or on the baseball field: It's Christian. Both inward (drive from NY to LA, tell me what you find in between, I can list 1000 examples aside from this one), and outward (name the last Jewish or Buddhist President that was videotaped walking to Synagogue from the White House, I can list 3000 examples of America's Christianity aside from this) the tip of the iceberg.

More idiocracy: do you really have to be a misogynist to dislike rmbsstock? I'm not a fan of her tact, tactics, or posts, per se, but drop the faux logic. That's like saying you're not Hitler because you vacationed in France, didn't enjoy the culture and left. What do you want, a medal?

Finally, grammar. Listen, I'm a writer by trade. I'll probably do it through and after med school as well. People like to pay me a lot of money to write for them. It'll be our little Writerly whorish secret. But I've had it with targeting Americans or foreigners with regard to their grammar on this site. It's pathetic. I don't spell check here, I write, I click, I send. Same goes for emails on the MAC. Or private messages. I don't have the time or patience to go through for style or grammar. I'm not writing a script for Universal, Jesus. (Sorry.) We could all knock on Plankton (hugs and kisses, Plankey) for using "its" instead of "it's". Why don't you do that? You think he's smarter than you? More qualified? A better anesthesiologist? Oh, I see, so, when you're sure you can defeat the enemy you insult away. But when you're worried about getting your diaper tucked into a wad, grammar wise of course, by a leader on this forum, you don't pick on grammar. How Sun Tzu of you.

You'd ask for another doctor? Really? Would you ask for another doctor if you read Planks (hugs and kisses, Plankey) chart and saw that he wrote his "its" and "theirs" all nice and backwards? Would he get a thorough H&P on you? Lemme spin you a tale. A friend of mine is Indian. He's full of funny expressions and colloquialisms that just don't translate. The Intvl Cards PD, who ended up writing him an LOR months later, was introduced to him on day one and asked, "So, what are you doing here?" My friend replied, "Talking to you." Ya get it? He didn't know it wasn't to be taken literally, because, perhaps, in India, you don't say, "So, what are you doing here." I straightened that out on the elevator in private a moment later. He also says, "Tell me..." on the phone, instead of, "What's new?" This guy is the hardest working SOB I know. He's interviewing right now for residency. Just so happens we research for one of the most Internationally renowned Intvl Cardiologists (think Miller, Stoelting, I don't know the dude at CHOP who wrote a book on Peds) who wrote my friend an LOR. The last sentence of the LOR went something like, "Dr. My Friend is the most worthy candidate for residency that I have seen in my 26 years of practicing medicine, his knowledge and skills are beyond anyone else's that I've worked with at his level..." You think everyone gets that LOR?
No. So, open up you little closed-minded lentil bean.

I once married a foreigner, I wrote off (jealous and controlling) family members for calling her an "immigrant." We're all immigrants here, Sport. Save the natives and I suppose those who came over on the Mayflower and grandfathered in. You know one thing that hurts and brings down non-native speakers more than anything? People picking on their grammar. Imagine wanting to open your mouth and speak, but you can't do it as easily as at home, it sucks. TRUST me. So, maybe that was your intent? It's uncalled for. You want a novel, pick up Hemingway. Go speak another language, it's not that easy to PERFECT. Kudos to those for trying.

If I take out my monocle, and look closely: your grammar, syntax, structure, typography, structure, and, most importantly, style, suck c9ock. Unless of course you are attempting to write like a 4th grader, at which point you are a marvel. And, oh, I've been in the writing battlefield, with the bullets whizzing by me, and I've got the awards on my shelf, and I swing a large ligamentum flavum from behind the fattened veil of the interweb, so, yeah, I'm qualified to say so. Pick on rmbsstock's angle, like others did, not her identity. DreamMachine had it right, "STFU." Did he stoop to picking on her identity? (Edit: Actually, he did, beat me to the post). So, Licorice, if you want to pick on her identity, fine, knock yourself out, just know that I'll call you out every time you do. For the fun of it. Because I can.


D712

n.b. Hey Mil, Copro, Plank, Noy (remember me Noy, Jetta man ) might this ***** shredding pre-qualify me for a pp interview in 8 years? I'm feeling all balls-outey. Next time, I won't show restraint, promise!

Jesus. I want to say something, but after reading this I'm lost for words ... so-to-speak. Dream is right, are you Sure you want to be a doctor? Actually, come to think of it, I bet your notes in charts would be amusing and informative, to say the least.

 

[Planktonmd]

Agree!
This guy is an amazing writer.

Jesus. I want to say something, but after reading this I'm lost for words ... so-to-speak. Dream is right, are you Sure you want to be a doctor? Actually, come to think of it, I bet your notes in charts would be amusing and informative, to say the least.

 

[Eta Carinae]

If you are truly in search of amazing writers on this forum,

I submit to you that this is the most amazing example of superb authorship I've seen on this site since I've been here-

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9001053&postcount=9

Kind of lengthy so I didn't quote verbatim, but please, judge for yourselves.

 

[doctor712]

Jesus. I want to say something, but after reading this I'm lost for words ... so-to-speak. Dream is right, are you Sure you want to be a doctor? Actually, come to think of it, I bet your notes in charts would be amusing and informative, to say the least.

Yes yes yes, Doctor-bound! The irony is I really have little interest in publishing as a doctor, I'm written-out. But, I'll make you proud TenaciousGirl! I'll write the coolest chart notes!

Agree!
This guy is an amazing writer.

Thanks, Plank!!!

 

[coprolalia]

Jesus. I want to say something, but after reading this I'm lost for words ... so-to-speak. Dream is right, are you Sure you want to be a doctor? Actually, come to think of it, I bet your notes in charts would be amusing and informative, to say the least.

I've seen acid trips that were less stream-of-conscious.

-copro

 

[doctor712]

I've seen acid trips that were less stream-of-conscious.

-copro

Good one, Copro.

I wouldn't wish the talent upon my worst enemy. Or Eta. But be careful: "Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown."

or

As Jack Nicholson's character said in that SICKLY amazing moving of his, "Heavy lies the crown..."

Either way.

 

[Planktonmd]

I disagree.
This guy is probably someone who could write a scientific article very well but someone like 712 is a creative writer who actually can take a simple still image of our daily life and reintroduce it to you so you see it in whole different and colorful way, he actually can modify your view of ordinary reality and widen your horizon, this is what artists do.
He is the real deal.

If you are truly in search of amazing writers on this forum,

I submit to you that this is the most amazing example of superb authorship I've seen on this site since I've been here-

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9001053&postcount=9

Kind of lengthy so I didn't quote verbatim, but please, judge for yourselves.

 

[Eta Carinae]

I disagree.
712 is a creative writer who actually can take a simple still image of our daily life and reintroduce it to you so you see it in whole different and colorful way, he actually can modify your view of ordinary reality and widen your horizon, this is what artists do.
He is the real deal.

I beg to differ.

That being said-

I am not sure how we got from discussing doing anesthesia on a trial attorney to the subject of Islamic fanatics and their motives!!!QUOTE]

You're right. I got carried away. Let's get this thread back on track bashing fat people.

Please! Thank you

 

[doctor712]

I beg to differ.

That being said-

Please! Thank you

Ohh, I dig it: I can hit ignore and then STILL read the post if so tempted.
Coooool. Well, there's always a critic Eta, I was lucky enough to read your post before you edited it. Then I laughed.

I agree with Plank (whose comment I sincerely appreciate), and in the name of quoting random films tonight..."I'm a pretty big deal." Seriously though, enough about me, back to the thread.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Actually, come to think of it, I bet your notes in charts would be amusing and informative, to say the least.

yup, which is why the poster will get to see 1 patient every 2 weeks

in their Psych practice (they love long, detailed assessments with no end points/solutions/plan but lots of )

and why they will flunk their surgery rotation after the chief kicks them off the team...

 

[doctor712]

yup, which is why the poster will get to see 1 patient every 2 weeks

in his/her Psych practice (they love long, detailed assessments) with no end points/solutions/plan but lots of

and why he/she will flunk his/her surgery rotation after the chief kicks them off the team...

Eta, I don't know why I ignore your posts, I end up reading them in the end. Hasn't this board had enough lately? When exactly are you going to stop beating the dead horse that is your vendetta against me?

I'm not sure what exactly it was that I did to annoy you, but you started in with me two weeks ago with some bizarre German response to a post of mine, out of the blue (red flag). Then, after an apology (red flag) , normalcy (red flag). Then, after chit chat, and me laying into Licoricestick and Bialystock (which should ABSOLUTELY be the name of a Broadway play - with your Forebrain starring as the lead character) you step into me again. As if I crossed you. What IS your issue???????

Let me worry about separating fiction from progress notes or SDN banter, which is what this is. I seem to be doing just fine with my medical writing: I'm five years behind your ***** and I'm the one with first author under my belt, not you. With more to come. You wanna talk about publications? And no, I won't mention the Chief of CT Surgery who surely wouldn't want to fail me in a future rotation in between asking me for my friggin' autograph and offering me an LOR. Where do you come off thinking you KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT me inside, or outside, a hospital??

Aim your venom elsewhere, it tastes tart, regretful, dire, and sour. Not my cup o' tea.

D712

 

[Gern Blansten]

I agree eta. What have you got against D712? Seems like a nice enough person. Leave the bickering for the old folks.

 

[hoyden]

too many letters to swallow

what's your problem, girl?

I do not understand why you guys think that aggressive means rude and why don't you understand that we can have an aggressive discussion without being rude...As for being rude to me for defending fat people, I think that make you A__holes. (is that vicious now or is that rude!!) I also would like to add that it seems to me that you also discriminate against women cause you do not want me to participate in this discussion and you are trying to shut me up !!!
Additionally, I think you are without ethics if you do not treat your enemies according to the Geneva Convention. Cause I HATE some idiot to give this country a barbaric name when we are trying to show the whole world that we are the example of Democracy and Christian Values and...., Yes I know ethics and I know how to be vicious, and yes I know what it means NOT to be treated fairly more than most of you!! Cause when you manly men (Mr. Angry Man) sat down to study your good grammar , someone was wasting their time defending this country and ended up with bad grammar .. and think its too insulting to discuss an issue with a female with "bad grammar" and also it is a waste of time to talk to someone who fought a war as DAMN GREAT COMBAT MEDIC AND I KNOW HOW TO FU--N DO MY TRIAGE very F__N WELL, and guess what, WE DO NOT USE anesthesia AT THE FOREFRONT, and guess what?? ANESTHESIOLOGISTS .....YOU ARE NOT NEEDED WHEN WE ARE SAVING TRUE LIVES YOU.....ARE .....HIDING....IN.....THE....BACK WHEN THE BLOOD IS MIXING WITH SWEAT...YOU ARE HIDING MR. DREAM MEN YOU ARE NO WHERE TO BE FOUND WHEN THIS COUNTRY EVER CALLS ON YOU.,,,AND I KNOW HOW TO FUKIN TRAET MY PATIENTS FIRST, I KNOW I TREAT THEM BASED ON their injury..AND BASED WHO IS NOT DECAPITATED .. AND IF YOU EVER SEE MY UGLY FACE IN YOUR SURGERY ROOM DO NOT YOU F--- DARE... dare think you can or know how TO HELP ME ..
( Sorry ...I guess this is not marriage and therapy ...or psychology
...just a little PTSD:l)
Yet..I am still happy and dancing::l
I guess...I'll go shovel some snow

 

[Eta Carinae]

I agree eta. What have you got against D712? Seems like a nice enough person. Leave the bickering for the old folks.

you're probably right. Nothing personal against ANY particular person.
When someone who's more informed on a subject than I speaks, I usually shut up and listen.

I try not to interject some BS-

RE:

Ethics in Hollywood, is 100% exactly same as in the OR.

Ethics, as a whole, whether biomedical or interpersonal or battlefield related, are not situationally dependent. Come on, Co? Right and wrong? That's an easy one.

and as a further demonstration of naivete, "chief" was in reference to chief resident,
to whom you'll be answerable on surgery rotations as a med student;

not some "chief of CT" or whatever.

finally, poster can tuck his punis back into his pants. You really don't want to compare credentials/accolades with me...

Having said that, I rest my case; and lay down the sword.

Thanks, GB.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I have helped usher in peace. Now I will tackle the copro vs plankton vs milmd issue. Then, the middle east.

 

[doctor712]

Tsk tsk, Eta, you should know better than to think I'd go away quietly after another drive-by-posting of yours...

You're probably right. Nothing personal against ANY particular person.
When someone who's more informed on a subject than I speaks, I usually shut up and listen.
I try not to interject some BS... bla bla bla, out of context ethical crap.

No, you just post little smiley faces holding up BS signs. On SDN. Something I haven't found the need to do in 12 months' time. Kudos. Have a coke and a smile, would ya? You're a recently capped 4th year MD student for all purposes, get over yourself thinking the only ethical dilemmas that happen in the world involve the OR.

and as a further demonstration of naivete, "chief" was a reference chief resident, to whom you'll be answerable on surgery rotations as a med student;

Really, I thought I'd be answerable to the guy cutting open the chest telling me WHAT TO DO NEXT.
Abject apologies.

not some "chief of CT" or whatever.

You got my point, nice and clear. Yeah, whatever.

finally, poster can tuck his punis back into his pants. You really don't want to compare credentials/accolades with me...

Well, from what I've seen so far, you're stellar, so I better back off. Thought: if your Step 1 is as impressive as your interpersonal skills, I'd actually like to compare grades. My "not having taken Step 1" score is sure to trump whatever it is you bring to the table.

Having said that, I rest my case; and lay down the sword.

The picking up of the sword is where you need help. And a lot of it. I feel like annexed France with you. Shell shocked.

Thanks, GB.
I wouldn't head to Gaza just yet, Gern...

 

[doctor712]

And so, here's my last thought with you, Eta.

You know, it's been reported that Medical Schools check out applicant's Facebook pages, and internet pages, and SDN no doubt.

I'm not about to sit in an Adcom's office and tell him/her that I'm D712 on SDN so they can find me, read through my whiplashing of you, and decide I'm not sweet and flowery enough for them.

You're not worth it. I don't wanna miss the opportunity of getting in to MD school on my first try, because of you. Stranger things have happened.

Having said that, you get the real ignore treatment now.

Good bye and good riddance.

D712
p.s. Plank, seriously, sorry for the hijacking...

 

[Eta Carinae]

on second thought,
1 more thing before I put it away completely...

Parting thoughts for you-

,

I won't mention the Chief of CT Surgery who surely wouldn't want to fail me in a future rotation in between asking me for my friggin' autograph and offering me an LOR

I wouldn't wish the talent upon my worst enemy. But be careful: "Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown

..."I'm a pretty big deal."

grow a smaller head

With age, not youth, comes wisdom,

Learn the wisdom that should come with your age.

Where I said I know how to quickly decide whether to push sux or watch the person's family scream at me because daddy is dying slowly???

learn some real medicine...if you do make it to med school

I've seen acid trips that were less stream-of-conscious.

lay off the Ketamine/PCP/LSD


Above all, learn to be a man.

All the best.

 

[doctor712]

Eta Carinae;9022377]on second thought,
1 more thing before I put it away completely...

Parting thoughts for you-

Yes, my Dear?

grow a smaller head

Grow a smaller...that's oxymoronic. Ya *****.

Everyone of those "egotistical" comments (jokes) were wholeheartedly in jest. With a splash of sarcasm for you and Copro.
Ya know, sarcasm begets sarcasm. People on this board, who know me, know that. Get a sense of humor. I'd buy you one, but it's useless. You'd deactivate it upon opening the box. The Anchorman photo, are you KIDDING???? An EGO with that photo staring at you?? The autograph comment was just to let you know that people I work with (the ethical ones inside hospitals) are more apt to enjoy my presence, and my life experience, rather than fire me - as you so fantasize.

Learn the wisdom that should come with your age.

I try and try. But with you around it seems harder than ever.

learn some real medicine...if you do make it to med school

Roger that, Sugarplum. It's funny, just a few PMs ago you were
saying what an "amazing applicant" I am and how I'm sure to
be competitive at "ANY Medical school." (from memory, don't
quote me quoting you.) I guess you didn't mean any of that?
Right. Haha. Sorry I'm not the stellar applicant that you are, taking
a year off to do some Post-Doc work instead of matching
directly out of US medical school...

lay off the Ketamine/PCP/LSD

Oy. Delirium jokes. I think it's past your bedtime.

Above all, learn to be a man.

(Silence).

All the best

So, you're a phony too?

Are you done Eta? I think the rest of us are?

 

[fakin' the funk]

I've seen acid trips that were less stream-of-conscious.

-copro

"Stream of consciousness"

 

[Eta Carinae]

Quote:
lay off the Ketamine/PCP/LSD

Oy. Delirium jokes. I think it's past your bedtime.

Like I said, learn some medicine.

In addition to being a man. Having the last word doesn't make you one.

 

[pgg]

I have helped usher in peace. Now I will tackle the copro vs plankton vs milmd issue. Then, the middle east.

Maybe you should, you know, start with modest and realistic goals - fix the middle east first, then work up to the C-P-M issue.

 

[doctor712]

Quote:
lay off the Ketamine/PCP/LSD

Quote:
Oy. Delirium jokes. I think it's past your bedtime.

Like I said, learn some medicine.

In addition to being a man. Having the last word doesn't make you one.

As I mentioned to you in our PM, when I thought you were rowing with both oars, I'm interested in Peds Anesthesia. Remember? So, after reading the delayed-wake up/screaming at left hand case, I looked up "Ketamine" in my Miller, and also found this article, which I pull again, off Pubmed:

What is the nature of the emergence phenomenon when using intravenous or intramuscular ketamine for paediatric procedural sedation?
Treston G, Bell A, Cardwell R, Fincher G, Chand D, Cashion G.

Bundaberg Hospital, Bundaberg, Australia. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: Ketamine has become the drug most favoured by emergency physicians for sedation of children in the ED. Some emergency physicians do not use ketamine for paediatric procedural sedation (PPS) because of concern about emergence delirium on recovery...

Eta: What have you done, like, 2-4 weeks of electives in Anesthesia? Max? I accept my knowledge herein, do you accept yours?

 

[Eta Carinae]

since the connection between acid, LSD and your writing was lost to you, let me enlighten you by saying it was made in reference to you...

and it is interesting to note that you place yourself in the pediatric category.

Thanks for the article, but I doubt you know what it means.

There are a number of anesthestic drugs that are associated with post-op delirium. It is not a phenomenon specific to any one drug.

Again, learn some real medicine in med school...and grow up- having the last word, again, doesn't make you a man.

 

[tkim]

As I mentioned to you in our PM, when I thought you were rowing with both oars, I'm interested in Peds Anesthesia. Remember? So, after reading the delayed-wake up/screaming at left hand case, I looked up "Ketamine" in my Miller, and also found this article, which I pull again, off Pubmed:

What is the nature of the emergence phenomenon when using intravenous or intramuscular ketamine for paediatric procedural sedation?
Treston G, Bell A, Cardwell R, Fincher G, Chand D, Cashion G.

Bundaberg Hospital, Bundaberg, Australia. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: Ketamine has become the drug most favoured by emergency physicians for sedation of children in the ED. Some emergency physicians do not use ketamine for paediatric procedural sedation (PPS) because of concern about emergence delirium on recovery...

Eta: What have you done, like, 2-4 weeks of electives in Anesthesia? Max? I accept my knowledge herein, do you accept yours?

I can't believe you have a Miller as a premed.

I've given ketamine in the ED for peds ortho reductions. They wake up moaning and crying sometimes. Little Versed makes it go away. But usually I ask them what their favorite thing/food/TV show is, and make them think hard about that before I slam some Special K into their widdle veins.

Usually they wake up happy, and tell me they had some ultravivid dream of XYZ. Or they wake up screaming.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Here's an article that's more applicable to you:

main culprits: anticholinergics and BDZs.

Postoperative delirium in the elderly

SS Parikh and F Chung

Anesthesia & Analgesia, Vol 80, 1223-1232, Copyright © 1995
http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.com/cgi/content/abstract/80/6/1223

 

[Eta Carinae]

I have helped usher in peace. Now I will tackle the copro vs plankton vs milmd issue. Then, the middle east.

sah-wyyyyyy!



I'll stop now

 

[doctor712]

Can do this all day "Post-Doc Eta"...

1: Gutstein HB. Potential physiologic mechanism for ketamine-induced emergence delirium. Anesthesiology. 1996 Feb;84(2):474. PubMed PMID: 8602685.

1: Donahue PJ, Dineen PS. Emergence delirium following oral ketamine.
Anesthesiology. 1992 Sep;77(3):604-5. PubMed PMID: 1519802.

1: Dundee JW, Lilburn JK. Ketamine-iorazepam. Attenuation of psychic sequelae of
ketamine by lorazepam. Anaesthesia. 1978 Apr;33(4):312-4. PubMed PMID: 27121. (sorry that's an old one)

1: Guerra F. Ketamine may exacerbate psychiatric illness. Anesthesiology. 1980 Aug;53(2):177-8. PubMed PMID: 7416531.

Is the literature pretty dense on Ketamine and Delirium? I really never thought I'd be having a medical debate with another NON Anesthesiologist on
the SDN board.

and

According to my copy of Miller, 6th Edition, Volume 1, page 347, Ketamine, and I don't mean Phencyclidine not used today, I mean Ketalar , "produces undesirable psychologic reactions during awakening from anesthesia that are termed, emergence reactions. Common manifestations...are vivid dreaming, extracorporeal experiences (sense of floating out of one's body), and illusions (misinterpretation of a real, external sensory experience). These incidents of dreaming and illusion are often associated with excitement, confusion, euphoria and fear." Peds patients don't have as high rates of delirium as adults do, nor do men as compared to women, again according to Miller.

End quote.

Do I REALLY need to go chase down a DSM?????

OH, Benzodiazepines seem to be most effective in reducing Ketamine's psychologic side effects. Yours, on the other hand, I'm at a loss on how to deal with.

And because I just finished Ochem, yippee-for-me, I decided to also look up its structure the other day, you know, I'm trying to learn medicine and all so I can come on SDN and crap on PreMed students. I "learned" that Ketamine is chiral (and I know what that means!), usually a racemic mixture, with the S (+) enantiomer being not only more potent, but if you believe Miller, it causes less side effects. I'm pretty good with naming R and S compounds, if you'd like to bring me a model of Ketamine, I'll do my very very best to walk you through the steps in naming R or S.

Contraindications to Ketamine: (Miller, pg. 350): Increased ICP and with intracranial mass, certain open eye injury (intraoc pressure concerns), patients with sole ischemic heart disease (due to Ketamine's "propensity to cause hypertension and tachycardia) (I think that means when the heart, "goes fast." Oh, here's an interesting contraindication: "One should be cautious in using Ketamine when there is a possibility of post-op delirium from other causes (e.g. delirium tremens, possibility of head trauma) and a ketamine-induced psychomimetic effect would cloud the differential diagnosis." Gee, I wonder why...

You can also use it (<1mg/kg IV) for dressing changes.

Wake up and learn that you can be PREMED and love learning this stuff. I consider it a blessing that I have this passion. Whereas you choose to spend your time insulting people and their levels of knowledge. Open yours eyes, Post-Doc, you'd be surprised what you can learn from people you least expect it.

D712

 

[doctor712]

I can't believe you have a Miller as a premed.

Yes, I do. Vols 1 & 2. Was a gift from a CT Anesthesiologist friend/mentor of mine. A mensch. I read it (almost) daily.

I like reading. Helps me write.

And think of big words.

And learn about Ketamine.

(sorry, sarcasm is pointed at Eta, not you).

 

[Narcotized]

I think some people have seriously lost their friggin minds on here. Don't any of you have real life problems to worry about? If not I want your lives because I certainly have more real life problems than I can handle, and the last thing I need is additional problems with make believe imaginary people on an anonymous message board.

Say a line or 2 and just let it go. You will never shut all people up, but you will drive yourself insane trying to. That's not addressed to any one or two people; more like too many to count this week.

Dream, throw up another up-side-down picture of a chick to lighten the mood.

 

[doctor712]

since the connection between acid, LSD and your writing was lost to you, let me enlighten you by saying it was made in reference to you.

It wasn't lost on me, Eta. I just called you out on the LAME, sad joke. Summed it up with "Oy," as I recall.

Thanks for trying to explain away my learning about Ketamine and its KNOWN side effects, though. With the literature staring you between your eyes, I can fully understand the back-pedal and justification. Sad attempt as it was. [/COLOR] But, we're talking about KETAMINE and DELIRIUM here, remember? Remember my comment about your lame joke? And your reply that I should LEARN MEDICINE in regard to KETAMINE and DELIRIUM. Let's not get off on a tangent here and start talking about how lots of drugs have lots of side effects. I know it's hard, but stay on track: KETAMINE. DELIRIUM. TEACH ME, ETA.

 

[Eta Carinae]

Can do this all day "Post-Doc Eta"...

1: Gutstein HB. Potential physiologic mechanism for ketamine-induced emergence delirium. Anesthesiology. 1996 Feb;84(2):474. PubMed PMID: 8602685.

1: Donahue PJ, Dineen PS. Emergence delirium following oral ketamine.
Anesthesiology. 1992 Sep;77(3):604-5. PubMed PMID: 1519802.

1: Dundee JW, Lilburn JK. Ketamine-iorazepam. Attenuation of psychic sequelae of
ketamine by lorazepam. Anaesthesia. 1978 Apr;33(4):312-4. PubMed PMID: 27121. (sorry that's an old one)

1: Guerra F. Ketamine may exacerbate psychiatric illness. Anesthesiology. 1980 Aug;53(2):177-8. PubMed PMID: 7416531.

Is the literature pretty dense on Ketamine and Delirium? I really never thought I'd be having a medical debate with another NON Anesthesiologist on
the SDN board.

and

According to my copy of Miller, 6th Edition, Volume 1, page 347, Ketamine, and I don't mean Phencyclidine not used today, I mean Ketalar , "produces undesirable psychologic reactions during awakening from anesthesia that are termed, emergence reactions. Common manifestations...are vivid dreaming, extracorporeal experiences (sense of floating out of one's body), and illusions (misinterpretation of a real, external sensory experience). These incidents of dreaming and illusion are often associated with excitement, confusion, euphoria and fear." Peds patients don't have as high rates of delirium as adults do, nor do men as compared to women, again according to Miller.

End quote.

Do I REALLY need to go chase down a DSM?????

OH, Benzodiazepines seem to be most effective in reducing Ketamine's psychologic side effects. Yours, on the other hand, I'm at a loss on how to deal with.

And because I just finished Ochem, yippee-for-me, I decided to also look up its structure the other day, you know, I'm trying to learn medicine and all so I can come on SDN and crap on PreMed students. I "learned" that Ketamine is chiral (and I know what that means!), usually a racemic mixture, with the S (+) enantiomer being not only more potent, but if you believe Miller, it causes less side effects. I'm pretty good with naming R and S compounds, if you'd like to bring me a model of Ketamine, I'll do my very very best to walk you through the steps in naming R or S.

Contraindications to Ketamine: (Miller, pg. 350): Increased ICP and with intracranial mass, certain open eye injury (intraoc pressure concerns), patients with sole ischemic heart disease (due to Ketamine's "propensity to cause hypertension and tachycardia) (I think that means when the heart, "goes fast." Oh, here's an interesting contraindication: "One should be cautious in using Ketamine when there is a possibility of post-op delirium from other causes (e.g. delirium tremens, possibility of head trauma) and a ketamine-induced psychomimetic effect would cloud the differential diagnosis." Gee, I wonder why...

You can also use it (<1mg/kg IV) for dressing changes.

Wake up and learn that you can be PREMED and love learning this stuff. I consider it a blessing that I have this passion. Whereas you choose to spend your time insulting people and their levels of knowledge. Open yours eyes, Post-Doc, you'd be surprised what you can learn from people you least expect it.

D712

You have just handed me a gem. i beg you not to edit this post. Well, I think I've immortalized it now.

THIS is what needs to be seen!

Thank you for putting this up.



I'll let you figure out later what I'm talking about...

But you've just proven my point.

 

[Spiker]

Yes, some of them are lazy but these are the minorities

really?

 

[doctor712]

Thanks for the article, but I doubt you know what it means.

I thought we established that I'm published and you're not? Shouldn't I know how to read a scholarly article as well as you? Oh, great, Master Eta.

Again, learn some real medicine in med school...

I CAN'T WAIT!

and grow up- having the last word, again, doesn't make you a man.

Does it make YOU a man?

Sorry, I'm laughing as I type this. Only at 2:33am when the rest of the board is sleeping would I go there with you...