Anesth vs Rads

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I would have to say anesth.. Who wants to sit in a dark room all day. But I guess when they are paying you 400,000 a year, who cares. I think each has a very rewarding lifestyle as far as hours/compensation.
 
Who wants to spend the whole day standing in the operating room in the surgeon's shadow? If you really think that radiologists spend the whole day in a dark room by themselves then you should do a rotation.
 
Both can be very busy, demanding jobs. It would depend on how and where you practice.
Rads are currently making more money than gas. However the residency is longer and can be somewhat more competative to get. (note- gas is also becoming quite competative recently)
Both rads and gas make significantly more than most non-surgical fields, and more than some surgeons, depending on region of the country.
Why not do an elective in each and pick the one you enjoy more?
 
Is there a concern in anesth (or rads) about "losing your job?" I have heard people say that both are hospital based fields where you are at the mercy of managed care and therefore not entirely in control of your future. Whereas a field like IM or any subspecialty, where you can open up your own practice if worse comes to worst (and so don't have to be in the position of looking for hospital jobs or groups to join).

In anesth, what is the concern, if any, over nurse anesthetists hurting salary or job security in the future. I know they can never replace an MD, but what kind of impact can they have on the need for the # of MDs.

Thanks in advance to your replies.
 
There are no guarantees in life. Do what makes you happier. As of now they both pay extremely well. Future is a murky nebulous world where predictions are hard to make. I'd say the demand for anesthesia and radiology services will continue to grow. Will this outpace the supply of physicians and any technological advances? That is a question I cannot answer. The future looks bright for both fields. It actually surprised me when I first started medical school that anesthesiology was not that popular.
 
I know of an anesthisologist who is out of work while I don't know any other physicans who are out of work. Could this be an example of the future? As for me, I am not into either one of these specialities. I want to open up my own practice, be my own boss, and lead the kind of life that I want, instead of being confined to what other people tell me, which is impossible to do if I go into any hospital based specialties.
 
AAAAH, yet another anesthesia / radiology lifestyle question.

In my opinion, pros and cons.

Radiology: Pros: 1. Everytone thinks you are smart because the only time you ask them questions is when you don't know something that they do. Radiologists, to be good, need to know their pathology and have a good clinical knowledge of disease, and they in many instances acutally diagnose things as cancer (brain tumor, lymphoma). Don't have to take orders from surgeons regarding which position the bed needs to be in. Don't have nurses that think they can do your job.
2. Lots of benjamins
3. if non-invasive radiology, light call

Radiology cons: dark room all day


Anesthesiology Pros: 1. Lots of Benjamins
2. Good hours
3. Good at lines and intubations

Anesthesiology Cons: Treated like a bitch by surgery
Nurses think they know more than you do
pain management is solid
Treated like a bitch by surgery
 
I can't remember where I saw it on TV, but I saw a surgeon saying "If anything goes wrong with the patient during the surgery, the first step is always to blame the anesthesiologist".
 
It strikes me that anyone considering such diametrically opposite fields really has no idea what they want to do. If you find yourself in this position, I would sit down and reevaluate what you want to do, & more importantly why you want to do it.
 
For the record, I started this chat simply to find out what the "hub-ub" was about regarding these two fields. I do not have an interest in either. 😳
 
to acro yali regarding:

" want to open up my own practice, be my own boss, and lead the kind of life that I want, instead of being confined to what other people tell me, which is impossible to do if I go into any hospital based specialties"

Please pick up Steven R. Polk's book STAT and get a dose of reality. You are probably either a pre-clinical student or a 3rd year who has very naive views of the specialties.

Also do a rotation in some of the hospital based specialties away from an academic center. You will quickly realize how much job flexibility and independence they enjoy.
 
Dude,

the hub-ub is that in today's marketplace these two fields are paying phat money and are not associated with a strenuous lifestyle. People who do radiology I think really do like radiology because it is a difficult job to do and if you are not good at it you will be horrible.

It is anesthesia that MOSTLY, NOT EVERYONE, you find people who just are interestedi in it for capitalistic reasons, oh yeah but they "really like to do procedures"

BUT, There is nothing wrong with this at all, as long as these people are good at what they do. This is America and capitalism and competition makes this country what it is, the richest and most innovative country on earth.

wake up and smell the money, lest we understand why the two freaking most talked about specialties on this board are anes/rads even though abou a total of 10% of people end up in these fields, if not less than that.

Again, I think every doctor deserves to make what anes / rads makes, but for some reason these idiot insurance companies don't value primary care and would rather pay a cardiologist 5K to do a cath on a heart attack patient than 300 bucks to do a lipid profile.
 
oldandtired...

I don't know what to think of your post actually. Maybe you are indeed old and tired and can't understand what I actually said.

Nowhere in my post did I say "Anes and Radiology can only be hospital based." IF you find a line in my post saying that, please do let me know and quote it word for word so I will know that I actually said what you are saying I said.

If you read "I want to open up my own practice, be my own boss, and lead the kind of life that I want, instead of being confined to what other people tell me, which is impossible to do if I go into any hospital based specialties" as "Radiologists and anesthisologists can never open up their own practice, be their own boss, or lead the kind of life that they want becuase they will always be hospital based" well, maybe you should read what I said more carefully.
 
hey i like your name.
 
Actually Acro Yali, there are a lot of free standing radiology clinics these days which are owned by the group. They do outpatient imaging which is one of the fastest growing parts of radiology practice.

It is a great goal to have your own practice and be your own boss, and it is possible in many specialties. However, depending on where you plan on practising, it can be very hard to have that much independence. Many pracitioners in all but rural areas are slaves to hmos and insurance companies instead of hospitals. Not all of them, so it is possible for you to achieve your goals, but realize that it will be a tough road.
 
Thanks for the heads up. I know its not going to be easy but I think everyone should have a goal to work towards.
 
Well... Medicine is a fairly inter-dependent world and we do have specialization because in fact is not possible to be a specialist in every area. I applaud you for wanting to hang your shingle and run your office the way you want. However, now-adays that is a tough proposition. It sounds like you want to be a solo practitioner in a primary care field taking 24/7 call and finding someone else to cross-cover you so you can get a week of vacation once every couple years. That is commendable. But that is a tough road and something that is unnecessary if you are willing to give up a little autonomy to join a group practice. You should not however exclude radiology or anesthesiology for being in group practice (not owned by the hospital) who cover services for a hospital because they rely on referrals or work with other physicians to accomplish something. Unless you are practicing in rural backwaters, you will be dependent on other physicians for consults, so you won't do exactly what you want unless you enjoy malpractice litigation. You will not have to hustle for referrals; that much is true.
 
Acro Yali. You know an anesthesiologist who is out of work? He must not be able to read the classified or not returning those physician recruter phonecalls/mail he's been getting. Seriously, if he is board certified and not on suspension by the state licensing board he should have no problems finding an anesthesiology job. I'm sure the anesthesiologists/or the to be gas passers on this forum can point him to anesthesiology job ads on the web by the hundreds.
 
This is getting out of the context of the topic, but, whats the deal... now I feel like I am getting jumped on because you guys don't like what I think I might want to do with my life? But, I don't want to get into an argument with either one of you because you two have been helpful to me in the past answering my questions in the threads. So, I am going to take your posts as trying to be helpful instead of the other way around. Thanks anyway for reminding me of the obstacles in the way. As for the anethesologist, well, who knows whats the deal is going on with him. He might just well be a singular example in the midst of thousands.
 
the "mechanics" of the work IS the work. Again, there are almost no similarities about your job b/w these two fields & if is coming down to a decision like this, I don't think that you (the medical student deciding on a career) have really narrowed your interests down much to make a confident decision. A situation like this seems to me to be more of a lifestyle decision than a calling for a field IMHO and can really lead to a dissatisfied resident or practicing physician down the road.
 
I'm getting a little sick and tired of the argument that if you are choising between two very different fields then you must not have really thought about what you really want to do with your life argument. I happen to think that one could be very happy in MANY fields of medicine. I myself was deciding between radiology and Heme-Onc, different as hell but I would love them both for different reasons. My next door neighbor after 10 years of CT surgery retrained and is now practicing primary care, says he loved them both for different reasons. So lets just end this type of rightous BS that if you're deciding between two different things you must have some sort of selfish motive, it just aint so, and i also happen to think that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with giving STRONG consideration to money and lifestyle, afterall for most of us our life is going to ultimately revolve around our FAMILY not our jobs!!!
 
droliver,
I don't know if you got my post on the surgical pyramid thread- I'm a 4th year student at South AL. So you were class of 1998? I'm going for surgery as well- have been spending a lot of time researching via the ACS and FREIDA sites. How do you like Louisville? If you have some time and want to chat about South, send me an e-mail at [email protected]. Talk to you later!

Alicia
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by NERad:
•I'm getting a little sick and tired of the argument that if you are choising between two very different fields then you must not have really thought about what you really want to do with your life argument.
So lets just end this type of rightous BS that if you're deciding between two different things you must have some sort of selfish motive, it just aint so, and i also happen to think that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with giving STRONG consideration to money and lifestyle, afterall for most of us our life is going to ultimately revolve around our FAMILY not our jobs!!!•••••No rightous BS here.
This is not a judgement, but rather an observation after having taught close to 200 students by now. I will stand by my feelings that when your top two choices are so different, you just haven't had enough exposure to make an educated choice. And indeed, many of these kind of statements come from students who frankly admit to lifestyle consideration being the overriding factor for one (or both) of the two fields in their differential. This is all well and good,if not a little disappointing.
 
Oliver,

There is absolutedly nothing "dissapointing" about choosing a field based on lifestyle considerations.

When you leave academia and start hustling (aka kissing primary care ass) for referrals, fielding calls at 3 am from some clueless ER doc when you are 53 and start losing money on doing bread and butter procedures we will see what your posts sound like then.

When you have to leave your kids baseball game on a sunny satuday afternoon to resect some uninsured drug using loser's appendix we will see how you feel.
 
old and tired,

I took out your appendix last week and made it back in time to see my kid hit a home run to win the game. go back to the dark room you arrogant prick
 
In response to Oliver,

You will have to deal with uninsured patients and inconvenient hours in almost any specialty in medicine (some more than others). But anyone who thinks these things do not matter in the real world of medicine is a sucker with out a doubt. Especially some surgery resident who calls himself "dr. oliver" in academia ragging on students thinking it is disappointing that they are deciding between anesthesia and rads.
 
oldandtired,

you misunderstand. I don't rag on students who make those choices (my sister in law starts a radiology residency on Friday). What I do find disappointing is the trend that being any kind of doctor who takes care of patients at night or on weekends seems to turn off a disturbing # my students. It sometimes seems to be the end all of a students career choice, and it really pains me in principle that it comes down to that. I honestly care about what my students decide to do, most don't end up being surgeons, but I try to maximize their experience if they're interested in learning. The whole point of my original post to this thread is that I don't want some people to make choices without examining things a little more - I think everyone ends up happier with their decision
 
Why don't you think working on weekends and at night turns off many people? Do you believe people (including) surgeons want to work at night or the weekends? Honestly, if work is more important to you than family that's fine, but many "normal and well-adjusted" people prefer family over work any day (or night) of the week. I think when you look back on your life and see what you've done many people decide that more time spent at the office will not be what will be remembered. Please don't fault people for not holding the same values as yourself nor weighing things differently in importance in their life.
 
Voxel,

the two things (work/family) are not mutually exclusive. However, there seems to be more antipathy among todays students for sacrifices that have traditionally been embraced by physicians for their patients. It gets into that is medicine a job or a profession philosophical argument.
 
The debate of lifestyle/salary has been argued ad naseum. I agree with Dr. Oliver and think Dr. Oliver has caught alot of flak for his/her opinions. Any competent person would factor in criterea such as lifestyle and compensation into any career choice. However, when someone is asked 'Why did you choose the field of ...' and the first response or reason given is 'lifestyle and money,' that is odd. Let me rephrase that, that response is odd in the medical profession. Does anyone else think so?

I am in no way trying to sound righteous. I believe service to others and self-sacrifice is inherent to medicine. I hope everyone looks at their own personality when choosing and figures how they can use these traits to do the greatest good. I believe we mostly do, even though it may not come across that way on these boards.
 
I have to say that I totally understand what droliver is saying. Granted, I'm a PGY-1 in surgery now so lifestyle was secondary in my decision. I would love for surgery to be 9-5 M-F without call so I could spend more time with my wife and daughter but it's not.

When I was trying to get into med school I remember being very naive and idealistic about what medicine really is (or what I thought it should be). I thought that docs sacrificed a lot for their patients, especially time. I thought that was somewhat noble and appreciated that aspect and continue to admire those who sacrifice their time to help their patients. So for someone to choose a profession SOLELY on lifestyle nags at me a bit. I have friends doing anesthesia who really felt that the profession was a good fit for them professionally and I respect that BUT I also have friends who went into it only because of a good lifestyle and my respect level for them is not as high.

All that said (and really nothing new said), Maybe this is naive but I really believe medicine is more than just a job.
 
I think that everyone includes all factors in their decision to choose a specialty. As med student was lucky in that I fell in love with radiology during my rotation, regardless of income or lifestyle. However, I also enjoyed my cardiology rotation a great deal and thought about going this route. I will admit that one of the MANY factors I considered when making the decision between the two was the lifestyle of the specialties.

There is a continuum in everyones decision making process. On one side is what your life will be like during and after residency. On the other side is your inherent enjoyment of the field. What varies is what point of this scale people's decision falls on.

One of my attendings summed this up well. Its kinda hard to describe without drawing it, but I'll try. He had a graph with th x-axis labeled "pain" and the y-axis labeled "rewards". His opinion that everyone has certain levels of for their specialty. If at any point the pain level exceeds the rewards, at that point the physician will become unhappy with his work. For people going into surgery, the rewards they get generally exceed the higher amount of pain they must endure. For those who do not choose this field, the pain level is higher than the rewards from the get go. For those who quit surgery residency it the two lines intersect at some point. For many people, they would consider the work of a radiologist to be painful with not as many rewards. Luckily for me, the intellectual rewards of the field greatly outweigh the pain (which at this point I don't have any). For me anesthesia was on the opposite end of spectrum with high pain (boredom, being at the whim of surgeons) and little rewards (not interesting for me, only the income was a reward). Sorta complicated, hope I explained it well.
 
We must admit that the field of medicine is changing. How come Radiology, Anesthesiology, Optho, Derm, Plastics are so popular these days?
The answer is lifestyle and financial rewards.

Again, I don't fault people choosing their specialty primarily on lifestyle. Afterall, I think working 100hrs /week for 5 or more years like in surgery is pretty ridiculous. It is not healthy, and perhaps best suited for those without a family or don't care about their family.

I found every profession to have something interesting and something not so interesting or boring. I have respect for every profession and I admit that my knowledge in other fields are pretty limited.

My advice to medical students is choose something you like, but keep in mind that being a physician is only part of your life, but not your only life.
 
Work and family are mutually exclusive in that generally you cannot be at work and with your family at the same time. They are two "life activities" that compete for your time. It is obviously true that you can work and have a family but some fields make it extremely hard to do both well especially with children. Depending on your desired level of involvement with your family and how much time it takes to spend "quality" time with your family it is possible to do both well.

Lifestyle is but one of the many factors that should be considered in choosing a specialty, but it certainly should not be ignored. I cannot wait until this year is over and I get to start radiology. That is excitement that some people cannot understand. No knock on opthamology, but I did it for several weeks and I know that I would be miserable doing that for the next 20-30 years, even if it does pay well and has a nice lifestyle.

The problem really comes for many of my fellow students who could not find the same intellectual "excitement" over any field they were exposed to during medical school. So what are they to do? Quit after 3+ years and lots of student loans? It would suck to be in this situation, but it happens alot more than I had realized before I started talking to my fellow classmates as they started 4th year. So what winds up happening is that people begin to choose things based upon lifestyle and income because people have not found that "ah-ha" field. And then there are the kids with 150K-200K in debt who are choosing between peds and peds anesthesiology, it's not hard to see how things go down.
 
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