Anesthesia Chances as a DO

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uncleturtle

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New member on SDN. I am interested in Anesthesia and currently seeking to start making a list for audition rotations. Step 1 is 227, Comlex 544. Definitely want to do ACGME residency. I have step 2 planned for May. I am a current military member with a bunch of volunteering and leadership experience, but limited research experience. I was wondering what kind of programs I should be focusing on and what programs are within my reach (and whats definitely out of reach)? Your suggestions would be awesome! How many rotations would you suggest on doing as well?
 
Are you AD/reserve/NG? HPSP? Granted civilian deferment for residency? I'd like to help you out but I need to understand more about your situation first. Also, how was your academic performance up to this point? Any fails/retakes? Have you done any anesthesiology rotations yet?
 
Are you AD/reserve/NG? HPSP? Granted civilian deferment for residency? I'd like to help you out but I need to understand more about your situation first. Also, how was your academic performance up to this point? Any fails/retakes? Have you done any anesthesiology rotations yet?

I am NG (3+ years) and I am going to do a civilian residency. I have not failed any classes or had any retakes. I am also in the top 15% of my class at this current moment. Thank you for responding by the way!
 
You'll easily get in somewhere. Do some anesthesia rotations and act like you actually care instead of leaving at 8am. Get some good recommendations, and you'll be fine! Apply to a bunch of programs just in case.
 
Everything in your application is solid. Just make sure not to bomb Step 2 (shoot for at least 230) and assuming you don't have any terribly annoying personality quirks that will irritate people at interviews you should be good. You probably won't be getting into Top 10 programs, but any solid middle ground program should be well within your reach and you shouldn't need any bottom tier safety nets so save your money on that.
 
Take step 2, do well, apply REALISTICALLY* and you'll do well.



*You will not be the first DO at a program. Maybe leave Duke/UNC off your list.
 
Everything in your application is solid. Just make sure not to bomb Step 2 (shoot for at least 230) and assuming you don't have any terribly annoying personality quirks that will irritate people at interviews you should be good. You probably won't be getting into Top 10 programs, but any solid middle ground program should be well within your reach and you shouldn't need any bottom tier safety nets so save your money on that.

Can you give me some examples of a few schools that you would recommend in the Southeast that fit the "middle ground program?" Also, would I essentially be wasting an away rotation/audition at UAB and Wake Forest if i did one at each?
 
Can you give me some examples of a few schools that you would recommend in the Southeast that fit the "middle ground program?" Also, would I essentially be wasting an away rotation/audition at UAB and Wake Forest if i did one at each?

UAB and Wake are both good middle ground programs. Like a previous poster said, Duke/UNC may be out of reach, though submitting an application can't hurt. It's been about 5 years since I was in your shoes, so things may well have changed, but I remember Vandy didn't have any DO's (which upset me as a DO who wanted to live near family in Nashville) and I didn't even get a response to my application (not even an end of the season rejection). Some programs have automatic cut off points for Step 1 scores which could be anywhere between 215 (unlikely) to 230+, but 227 will hopefully get you past most first round rejections.

As for audition rotations, I've never found them to be very important in anesthesia. Knowing for certain that you want to do anesthesia tends to be more important than a program seeing how you are in the OR. Unlike disciplines like surgery where they may want to see some skill, in anesthesia everyone expects you to completely forget all your anesthesia knowledge and lose any skills you may have had by the time you finish intern year. I didn't intubate a single person during the first 11 months of intern year (my program had an anesthesia boot camp for interns the last block of the year). I placed very few lines and hadn't adjusted a ventilator during that time either. It didn't matter because all those skills are learned by repeating them hundreds of times during residency. The program wants to know that you can become a board certified anesthesiologist (IE jump through the hoops the ABA puts in front of you), and they've decided that correlates most directly with Step scores. Anesthesia is one of the most difficult disciplines to pass the board exams (or so the ABA says).

Do audition rotations at UAB and Wake if YOU need to know if they are right for you, or if you feel like maybe you can't land an interview otherwise. If you know that you want to do anesthesia and you've got appropriate references, then you may accomplish just as much doing an elective washing dishes in the cafeteria at UAB/Wake, so long as they give you time for a coffee break to allow you to say hello to a few residents and smile/small talk the office staff some. Pick what you feel you need, but don't expect audition rotations to make an application. You can, however, completely eliminate your chances by doing poorly on a rotation or causing some problem that gets you remembered. For example, I had a helpful medical student attempt to wheel the bed from the room with the pts IV fluids caught on a railing. It was an honest and simple mistake. It resulted in an IV pole and pump crashing onto the very much awake pt. She didn't appreciate the pump landing on her arm. I didn't appreciate that problem being my responsibility. I can't remember anything else he did that block, good or bad, but he didn't get into the program. My recommendation would be to cherry pick rotations where you can ensure the results are in your favor, then pick the easiest (least real) rotations to fill out your year and enjoy the last vestiges of freedom before you are swallowed completely by the soul sucking machine that is residency. If by the time you've submitted your rank list you are still going in to a rotation more than once a week you've picked the wrong rotations. Good luck.
 
Mayo Rochester has several DO residents right now and historically always has had.

An ex-ASA President, a DO, did his entire career here.

I’m just saying...
 
Mayo Rochester has several DO residents right now and historically always has had.

An ex-ASA President, a DO, did his entire career here.

I’m just saying...

No offense but your DOs likely have Step 1 scores over 240 and are in the top 10 percent of their class. A DO with a Step 1 under 230 may need a last name like Bush, Trump or Obama to get a spot at Mayo Rochester.
 
No offense but your DOs likely have Step 1 scores over 240 and are in the top 10 percent of their class. A DO with a Step 1 under 230 may need a last name like Bush, Trump or Obama to get a spot at Mayo Rochester.

No offense taken.

I’m not a DO, but believe me, I don’t match any of the criteria that you spell out in the above. And I for sure don’t have a famous last name. I’m just a nobody who is constantly looking over my shoulder for the guy who will say, “Oops, we made a mistake 25 years ago. You never should have been asked to come here. You have to leave now.”

Could be. You might be right about DO’s and Mayo. I don’t know. I’m not part of the recruiting process; I was just saying to the OP that DO’s have a good chance at a nice career in anesthesia, that’s all.

But I’m still surprised I’m here.
 
UAB and Wake are both good middle ground programs. Like a previous poster said, Duke/UNC may be out of reach, though submitting an application can't hurt. It's been about 5 years since I was in your shoes, so things may well have changed, but I remember Vandy didn't have any DO's (which upset me as a DO who wanted to live near family in Nashville) and I didn't even get a response to my application (not even an end of the season rejection). Some programs have automatic cut off points for Step 1 scores which could be anywhere between 215 (unlikely) to 230+, but 227 will hopefully get you past most first round rejections.

As for audition rotations, I've never found them to be very important in anesthesia. Knowing for certain that you want to do anesthesia tends to be more important than a program seeing how you are in the OR. Unlike disciplines like surgery where they may want to see some skill, in anesthesia everyone expects you to completely forget all your anesthesia knowledge and lose any skills you may have had by the time you finish intern year. I didn't intubate a single person during the first 11 months of intern year (my program had an anesthesia boot camp for interns the last block of the year). I placed very few lines and hadn't adjusted a ventilator during that time either. It didn't matter because all those skills are learned by repeating them hundreds of times during residency. The program wants to know that you can become a board certified anesthesiologist (IE jump through the hoops the ABA puts in front of you), and they've decided that correlates most directly with Step scores. Anesthesia is one of the most difficult disciplines to pass the board exams (or so the ABA says).

Do audition rotations at UAB and Wake if YOU need to know if they are right for you, or if you feel like maybe you can't land an interview otherwise. If you know that you want to do anesthesia and you've got appropriate references, then you may accomplish just as much doing an elective washing dishes in the cafeteria at UAB/Wake, so long as they give you time for a coffee break to allow you to say hello to a few residents and smile/small talk the office staff some. Pick what you feel you need, but don't expect audition rotations to make an application. You can, however, completely eliminate your chances by doing poorly on a rotation or causing some problem that gets you remembered. For example, I had a helpful medical student attempt to wheel the bed from the room with the pts IV fluids caught on a railing. It was an honest and simple mistake. It resulted in an IV pole and pump crashing onto the very much awake pt. She didn't appreciate the pump landing on her arm. I didn't appreciate that problem being my responsibility. I can't remember anything else he did that block, good or bad, but he didn't get into the program. My recommendation would be to cherry pick rotations where you can ensure the results are in your favor, then pick the easiest (least real) rotations to fill out your year and enjoy the last vestiges of freedom before you are swallowed completely by the soul sucking machine that is residency. If by the time you've submitted your rank list you are still going in to a rotation more than once a week you've picked the wrong rotations. Good luck.
First off, thank you for the feedback. I am about 99% I want to do Anesthesia for many reasons. I think I am going to do 2 audition rotations and see how those go. I prefer to stay in the Southeast or as close as possible b/c of family. Is there a reliable source that ranks residencies so that I know which ones are way out of my league?
 
UAB and Wake are both good middle ground programs. Like a previous poster said, Duke/UNC may be out of reach, though submitting an application can't hurt. It's been about 5 years since I was in your shoes, so things may well have changed, but I remember Vandy didn't have any DO's (which upset me as a DO who wanted to live near family in Nashville) and I didn't even get a response to my application (not even an end of the season rejection). Some programs have automatic cut off points for Step 1 scores which could be anywhere between 215 (unlikely) to 230+, but 227 will hopefully get you past most first round rejections.

As for audition rotations, I've never found them to be very important in anesthesia. Knowing for certain that you want to do anesthesia tends to be more important than a program seeing how you are in the OR. Unlike disciplines like surgery where they may want to see some skill, in anesthesia everyone expects you to completely forget all your anesthesia knowledge and lose any skills you may have had by the time you finish intern year. I didn't intubate a single person during the first 11 months of intern year (my program had an anesthesia boot camp for interns the last block of the year). I placed very few lines and hadn't adjusted a ventilator during that time either. It didn't matter because all those skills are learned by repeating them hundreds of times during residency. The program wants to know that you can become a board certified anesthesiologist (IE jump through the hoops the ABA puts in front of you), and they've decided that correlates most directly with Step scores. Anesthesia is one of the most difficult disciplines to pass the board exams (or so the ABA says).

Do audition rotations at UAB and Wake if YOU need to know if they are right for you, or if you feel like maybe you can't land an interview otherwise. If you know that you want to do anesthesia and you've got appropriate references, then you may accomplish just as much doing an elective washing dishes in the cafeteria at UAB/Wake, so long as they give you time for a coffee break to allow you to say hello to a few residents and smile/small talk the office staff some. Pick what you feel you need, but don't expect audition rotations to make an application. You can, however, completely eliminate your chances by doing poorly on a rotation or causing some problem that gets you remembered. For example, I had a helpful medical student attempt to wheel the bed from the room with the pts IV fluids caught on a railing. It was an honest and simple mistake. It resulted in an IV pole and pump crashing onto the very much awake pt. She didn't appreciate the pump landing on her arm. I didn't appreciate that problem being my responsibility. I can't remember anything else he did that block, good or bad, but he didn't get into the program. My recommendation would be to cherry pick rotations where you can ensure the results are in your favor, then pick the easiest (least real) rotations to fill out your year and enjoy the last vestiges of freedom before you are swallowed completely by the soul sucking machine that is residency. If by the time you've submitted your rank list you are still going in to a rotation more than once a week you've picked the wrong rotations. Good luck.

Is it just me or is the state of ICU education becoming atrocious during intern year? As interns we used to have at least 15-30 each central and A-line's, and had learned the basics of sepsis, copd exacerbation, nstemi, bipap, mechanical ventilation, ardsnet, pressors, and inotropes. Some of our rising ca-1s give me the impression they were just glorified med students when they rotated in the unit. No one expects CA1s to be good at anything, but I definitely notice the ones who learned a lot of medicine, critical care and have decent hand-eye coordination right out of the gate.
 
First off, thank you for the feedback. I am about 99% I want to do Anesthesia for many reasons. I think I am going to do 2 audition rotations and see how those go. I prefer to stay in the Southeast or as close as possible b/c of family. Is there a reliable source that ranks residencies so that I know which ones are way out of my league?

There aren't any residency rankings. There are just generalized impressions and pseudo top-10 lists based on peoples perceptions of the programs. Just by reputation I think that Duke/UNC/Vandy have the most name value in the general area you are looking at. I don't think that you would get an interview invite from them, though I could be surprised. Past those 3 I think that you can apply to most programs and have a reasonable chance, especially if you can establish that you have area ties. Programs always want to know what connection you have to the region/area. Having family ties to an area is especially valuable.
 
I spoke with one of my program's DO residents and asked how he determined which residencies were DO-friendly. His approach was actually pretty simple. He got on residency program websites and clicked on the "Meet Our Residents" links, then looked through to see which programs had DO residents. Not a super high-tech answer, but it worked!
 
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