mjoo

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I am an MSIII interested in gas. I heard today from a fellow student that anesthesia is becoming so popular that by the time we are done with residency, there will be an over abundance of gasdocs and the salaries are gonna shoot down. Is there any truth behind this?
 

gasgodess

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mjoo said:
I am an MSIII interested in gas. I heard today from a fellow student that anesthesia is becoming so popular that by the time we are done with residency, there will be an over abundance of gasdocs and the salaries are gonna shoot down. Is there any truth behind this?
No there is presently a shortage of anesthesiologists projected to continue for the next eight- ten years then stabilize. Salaries may decrease because supply and demand will start to balance out, but "shoot down" may be an overstatement.
 

GasMD

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If someone can predict the demand, that will be the most awesome thing. But that is not the case. Everyone knows that there were very few graduates who went into anesth. in 1995-2000 so that's why we are seeing all this crisis. On top we have increase surgical volume in every hospital and some have even close their OR's due to the shortage. And anesthesiologists do retire like all other doctors. I think this will create good market conditions until 2010 or so. After that market will not be hot but jobs will always will be there at average compensation. I am MS III and this is just my opinion. I still think that market will never die for anesthesiology but will stablize after few years. If you want to make millions or higher 6 figures, it might be dissapointing but jobs will always will be there. I think every night about all these issues but they do not get me anywhere. I am just gonna go for what I think is fit for me. :)
 

s204367

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As a graduating CA-3 who has already signed a contract...Yes, more graduates means things will get tighter in the Metro areas....In the NYC area. The most premiere groups are no longer offerring partnership tracks. classmates of mine that graduated the last two years had their pick, but not quite as much this year. At the premiere groups that are hiring, all partnership tracks are now 4-5 years.
NYC is producing 80 grads/yr just between columbia/cornell/mt sinai....yes, there will still be a shortage at more rural sites, and this may extend into 2010, but there has already been a change in the workforce in just the last 4 years. This is no reason not to go into anesthesiology. It is still a great career with many great opportunities....The ones i feel bad for are the cardiac surgery fellows...upwards of 12 years of post grad training and guess what??? no heart jobs in the NYC area....

just my two cents
 

Skip Intro

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s204367 said:
As a graduating CA-3 who has already signed a contract...Yes, more graduates means things will get tighter in the Metro areas....In the NYC area. The most premiere groups are no longer offerring partnership tracks. classmates of mine that graduated the last two years had their pick, but not quite as much this year. At the premiere groups that are hiring, all partnership tracks are now 4-5 years.
NYC is producing 80 grads/yr just between columbia/cornell/mt sinai....yes, there will still be a shortage at more rural sites, and this may extend into 2010, but there has already been a change in the workforce in just the last 4 years. This is no reason not to go into anesthesiology. It is still a great career with many great opportunities....The ones i feel bad for are the cardiac surgery fellows...upwards of 12 years of post grad training and guess what??? no heart jobs in the NYC area....

just my two cents
The market is a lot bigger than just NYC, a bad representative sample if you ask me. Unless you really want to stay in NYC, I wouldn't worry about this. Fact is, I heard of a CRNA who just got a job in Iowa City paying $155.00/hr. That's $300K+ per year.

I don't think there's going to be any shortage of need for qualified gas docs. The baby boomers are aging, and there will be more and more of a need for peri-operative specialists. CRNAs will continue to provide the bulk of anesthesia services outside of the major metro areas, but there will always be a need for consultants... everywhere.

-Skip
 

DenRock

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I also see demand lasting for long into the foreseeable future. I agree that many major metro areas will not have the best market, but smaller underserved/rural areas will always have a need. And don't forget about the growing amount of "off-site" anesthetics delivered, expansion of EDs, surgery centers, etc. that will provide an increasing demand for our services.

That said, though, let me second the thought that this is no reason to go into the specialty or not - it is a great job no matter what.
 

DrDre'

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Skip,
Hard to believe a CRNA is getting paid that much in Iowa City, IA. Are you sure on that?
 

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DrDre' said:
Skip,
Hard to believe a CRNA is getting paid that much in Iowa City, IA. Are you sure on that?
Well, I didn't exactly see the contract, but I know this particular person (who is left one of the hospitals I was at in NYC for this job) and they are credible to me. I didn't get into any great details as to how this exact number came about (i.e., if it's fudged d/t overtime, 48-hour weeks, etc.), but I believe her.

It's the demand > supply phenomemon at its best. I just wonder what MDAs are making in that practice.

-Skip
 

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Skip Intro said:
Fact is, I heard of a CRNA who just got a job in Iowa City paying $155.00/hr. That's $300K+ per year.
Wow, the fact is anecdotal data with a sample size of one...what's the p value, Skip?

;)

(My way of saying that I am not quite sure I believe this)
 

Skip Intro

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Idiopathic said:
Wow, the fact is anecdotal data with a sample size of one...what's the p value, Skip?

;)

(My way of saying that I am not quite sure I believe this)
I hear you. Valid criticism. And, I wouldn't put much creedence in it either if I was reading it on an Internet forum. Just sharing what I heard.

-Skip
 

DrDre'

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I am more skeptical bcuz I live in IC. The VA and UI wouldn't pay that. I am not even sure if the private groups uses CRNAs and I don't think there is a surgicenter here at all, or that could afford to pay that much.

If it's true, that's great. Maybe it was Ohio city, Idaho? :)
 

2ndyear

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mjoo,
Remember that it's not like residencies are cranking out a thousand more anesthesiologists now than in the past. Numbers of grads stays about constant. Sure, there may have been a couple of early 90's down years where the programs didn't fill, but that withstanding the number is the same year to year now.

The renewed popularity is basically among better candidates. In other words, a program that filled in 1993 with half FMG's is now filling with all US grads.
 

IN2bait

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NRAI2001 said:
What is the avg salary of an anesthesiologist?
Depends on where you live.

average around 220
NE and West a little less
South and Midwest can be big money (>600, but generally >300)
pain pays big notwithstanding location (>500)
 

Skip Intro

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IN2bait said:
Depends on where you live.

average around 220
NE and West a little less
South and Midwest can be big money (>600, but generally >300)
pain pays big notwithstanding location (>500)
I would only say that $220K average is a starting average. As you move up in your practice, you will make more. I've also heard that CA-3's are getting starting offers in the $240-280K range this year, with promises that they'll move up into the $300-350K range in 4-5 years. That's for general anesthesiology practice. Otherwise, your numbers sound about right from what I've heard.

-Skip
 

NRAI2001

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Skip Intro said:
I would only say that $220K average is a starting average. As you move up in your practice, you will make more. I've also heard that CA-3's are getting starting offers in the $240-280K range this year, with promises that they'll move up into the $300-350K range in 4-5 years. That's for general anesthesiology practice. Otherwise, your numbers sound about right from what I've heard.

-Skip
Can an anesthesiologist have a practice? I thought they were on salary from a hospital or surgery center?
 

UTSouthwestern

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NRAI2001 said:
Can an anesthesiologist have a practice? I thought they were on salary from a hospital or surgery center?
You can choose to be a facility's staff anesthesiologist but the majority are in group practices that may or may not exclusively cover certain facilities. You also have the option to do solo practice with exclusive contracts with specific surgeons or go solo doing locums.
 

NRAI2001

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UTSouthwestern said:
You can choose to be a facility's staff anesthesiologist but the majority are in group practices that may or may not exclusively cover certain facilities. You also have the option to do solo practice with exclusive contracts with specific surgeons or go solo doing locums.
So would having ur own private practice be more lucrative?

How would a group practice work with Anesthesiologists (sorry I don't know much about the field, just trying to learn more)?
 

UTSouthwestern

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NRAI2001 said:
So would having ur own private practice be more lucrative?

How would a group practice work with Anesthesiologists (sorry I don't know much about the field, just trying to learn more)?
The situations are quite variable. Locums can be quite profitable but you have to travel a lot and the work isn't always consistently available.

Working one on one with a single surgeon makes you on call 24/7 for that surgeon's case and unless you can arrange for acceptable coverage, you are only off when your surgeon is off. That practice mode is rare although I have friends that are one on one with busy gastroenterologists ("IV general" cases, sedation cases, high volume, low acuity).

You have to balance call responsibilities, travel, and expenses versus what you can project for income in those situations.

Group practice usually entails a consolidation of business expenses, insurance coverage, and reimbursement. I have discussed this issue in the past and you can search my posts for those replies.

Advantages to group practice: Minimized expenses, better insurance rates (group rate), call coverage, ability to expand business based on the number of people in your group, centralized billing.

Disadvantages: Variable income structure, partnership tracks, have to accept both good and bad surgeons and personalities that your group contracts with, good and bad personalities in your own group.
 

Skip Intro

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UTSouthwestern said:
Locums can be quite profitable but you have to travel a lot and the work isn't always consistently available.
And, my attending-sources who've take locum tenens positions in the past tell me that you pretty much get all the crap cases that no one else wants to deal with as well. In other words, don't walk into a locums job pulling $200/hr and expect to do optho cases or bunionectomies.

-Skip
 

UTSouthwestern

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Skip Intro said:
And, my attending-sources who've take locum tenens positions in the past tell me that you pretty much get all the crap cases that no one else wants to deal with as well. In other words, don't walk into a locums job pulling $200/hr and expect to do optho cases or bunionectomies.

-Skip
Yeah I knew I forgot to mention another aspect of locums. :D
 

MDEntropy

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NRAI2001 said:
What is the avg salary of an anesthesiologist?
MGMA 2004 report based on 2003 data
2003 income data from over 1700 anesthesiologists from 130 different practices.

Median - 317K
Mean - 341K
10%ile - ~200K
25%ile - 257K
75%ile - 409K
90%ile - 500K

25%ile,median,75%ile based on geography (I don't know how they defined these regions)
East - 250, 329, 444
Midwest - 286, 353, 432
South - 286, 350, 420
West - 249, 277, 315


All of these numbers are slightly higher than last year, but I have no idea where things are headed.

Based on a few recent posts, it looks like starting salary offers are starting to decline, although if this is true, it is difficult to speculate as to why this might be.
 

sones

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DrDre' said:
Skip,
Hard to believe a CRNA is getting paid that much in Iowa City, IA. Are you sure on that?
I also live in IC and can tell you the CRNAs don't get paid near that much at either the VA or UIHC. The anesthesiologists are barely making that at the U.
 

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MDEntropy said:
Based on a few recent posts, it looks like starting salary offers are starting to decline, although if this is true, it is difficult to speculate as to why this might be.
Starting salaries are decreasing largely because of the larger number of high quality candidates applying for positions in private practice. In some years past, the quality of the applicants was considered to be somewhat lower than in other years and groups offered more money and shorter partnership tracks to those candidates they felt were great candidates.
 

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sones said:
I also live in IC and can tell you the CRNAs don't get paid near that much at either the VA or UIHC. The anesthesiologists are barely making that at the U.
Government-sponsored and academic medicine will rarely make the bigger bucks in any part of the country.

I have anesthetists in my practice pushing the $200k mark including their OT and benefits. Before you get too excited (or upset as the case may be), the ones making that much are working about 2800-3000 hours per year. There are plenty of locum tenens anesthetists making mid-200's or more. MD's can make significantly more if they're willing to deal with the hassles of locums.
 

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yes its true the market is tightening up and it really is going to become very unfair where certain groups are going to control certain areas and they younger guys are not going to be able to make as much because of the older guys thinking they somehow "built" a practice which is horseshat becasue anesthesia practices come built in already. so the older guys will pay the younger guys the anesthesia equivalent of minimum wage while they laugh all the way to the bank and there is nothing anyone can do about it except the hospitals. They can stop sighning exclusive contracts to anesthesia groups and let indicvidual anesthesiologist earn a living without being at the mercy of an anesthesia group