Dental anesthesia practice
Started by brominator
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Excelled in nursing school? Thats a pretty low bar
Much easier to get into nursing/crna than dentistry as well. So the baseline candidate will be better qualified on average.
My assumption is that folks get into dentist school and fine the anes/sedation aspect to be more interesting.. different lifestyle..etc
Either way...they would have more difficult and extensive training than a crna would require..so by default they would be expected to be better trained
I’m sorry what? Dental students who had issues? What do you mean by this? I was ranked #2 in my dental school class with a gpa of 3.99. I excelled in all of my courses and clinic with patients. I had finished all of my graduation requirements in March of my last year. I just found anesthesiology to be more interesting than general dentistry. I’ve also been involved in the interview process for the last three years and I can tell you we only rank highly competitive candidates. We scrutinize applications to make sure we avoid and dental students with problems. We require the CBSE (a truncated step 1) for admission into our program as well.
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That’s correct. We don’t do cardiac or OB, and don’t have a captain rotation like they do at Bellevue.
Dental Anesthesiology (ANESTH) Program at NYU Langone Dental
www.nyulangonedental.org
Training is at Brooklyn site. Likely not much if any cardiac or OB and no Bellevue team captain rotation but the program seems more than adequate for the job. Only suggestion would be more pediatric wards/clinic exposure.
That’s fine, I don’t give a **** if you don’t believe it. But I have the schedule and case logs to prove it
Then I guess I don’t understand why you wouldn’t go to medical school and anesthesia residency so there is no misunderstanding. It’s not the same route. It’s not the same training. I think it’s very similar to a CRNA . I’m sorry you don’t feel that way and feel slighted by that perception . You know what you could have done to avoid that ? Go to med school
Many of us don’t find out that it’s even a possibility until we are already in dental school or after we’ve graduated. It has nothing to do with not being good enough at general dentistry.
That’s your opinion that it’s similar to a CRNA but the training is double that of CRNAs so you can think what you want.
Sounds like the training is much closer to MD than crna is..
Sounds like the misunderstanding is on your part
I know several. Not equivalent. Want to be equivalent. Sound familiar? I'm sorry but I would personally raise an eyebrow to a dental anesthesiologist operating outside of a dental office like in a general ASC or a hospital OR.
I feel that I have offended OP and that is not my intention. Im sure you do great work and have trained long and hard. I just take offense to the implication that its the same as what i do
Nobody said it was the same as MD.
But i not sure why you think a new grad crna, who is less qualified at baseline (much easier to get into nursing and crna schools), and a new grad crna has significantly less OR case experience than dent anes..but somehow is more capable than a dent anes for an average case?
Are you offended that many states and hospitals consider crnas to be the same as MD? I certainly am. So i would expect you should be as well at a minimum
This thread is hilarious. Just google it man. They have to graduate dental school, among other stuff. "Very often..." Very often?! Try never lol. So that was just a way for you to spin it as CRNAs are better because they excel in nursing school and in your mind these are dental school dropouts. Hilarious world we live in on SDN.
i trained at nyu as well…
never saw dental docs on call schedule unless things have changed
You keep comparing crnas - they’re irrelevant here.
as pgg mentioned, a doctorate in anesthesia means - a physician - not dentist doing anesthesia and supervising crnas.
secondly, if you’re saying dental anesthesiologists are equal to boarded anesthesiologists, then threshold be able to do nerve blocks, ob and central lines and start hearts on call…
are you suggesting that a hospital should allow that?
i should start a podiatrist anesthesia specialty too at this rate.
credentials, experience and skills matter.
dental anesthesiologists should clarify their training, case logs and stick to their speciality only and not pretend to be equal to anesthesiologists…that’s it…do what you want within your scope - just don’t try to establish equivalence
physicians practice general medicine first and then become anesthesiologists…our basis is not dentistry
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I am merely trying to find out why you draw the line and express outrage at a dental anes doing anesthetic cases, with the logic that they arent MDs...yet you are are fine with crnas?
Your argument appears to be based upon level of training (otherwise what would it be based on?), so crnas are very relevant because you appear fine with them despite the having much less training and capabilities than dental anes
“i appear to be fine with crnas” - where did you get that from? me being fine or not fine is irrelevant. it’s a merit and qualification issue.
i am an md only practice for a reason.
crnas have their place but they’re not equivalent to physicians nor dentists.
not sure why there are issues with comprehension and introducing irrelevant items by you on every other post.
so you’re suggesting training, credentials and experience doesn’t matter and pretending to be equivalent to a physician anesthesiologist is acceptable?
interesting.
cittykat
Full Member
They’re in the Brooklyn campus and they spend a lot of time doing mobile/outpt dental cases in Phoenix and some time at a dental OPSC in LA. Their training seems tailored to the job they will do after graduation.
Watch the video. I have no qualms with their preparation and they likely increase safety and quality of care at the places where they work.
Still avoiding answering the question i see.
What place should crnas be in? Solo.. supervised only? Are you upset that crnas practice solo in many places?
Not sure why its hard for you to comprehend
Training and experience do matter. Is you argument that a general anesthesiologist who hasnt done a dental, OB, peds or cardiac case in 10 years (a typical generalist in most practices) is going to walk into a dental office and be more comfortable than a dental anesthesiologist (in practice for 10 years)?
Do you place that much value on those pathology, derm lectures you took in med school? Use much of what you learned on surgery rotation in your day to day practice?
The argument at hand has been whether a dent anes is capable and suitable to perform sedation for dental cases in a dental office. You seem to be ignoring their training and fixated on "mmm they not MD so grr"
First, you are on a forum of mostly MD/DO anesthesiologists so don’t get butt hurt when we don’t like your field.
Second, I work at a MD only private practice.
We are medical doctors that specialize in anesthesia. That is crucial. Some of the most important things we do come from being a good doctor.
Like it or not, at the core of a dental anesthesiologist is a dentist.
what question?
This isn’t a crna vs dentist question or which one is better. a medically directed crna doing hearts for 10 years at the same hospital with seasoned and experienced cardiac surgeons and anesthesiologists will be a lot better than a dental anesthesiologist. That’s if the dental anesthesiologist even qualifies to do hearts in the first place given the facility bylaws and dept of anesthesia policies and rules.
you introduced that question to go off a tangent and now expect me to answer.
specifically, this is about equivalence. I do not see any equivalence between a dentist or a physician in this case.
Still dodging the questions...
The only conclusion left available is that you just dont like dentists for some reason. Their level of training, and experience in providing sedation for dental procedures is irrelevant to you
And thats fine. You can like or dislike anything you want. Just doesn't make much sense based on the facts available.
please read the previous posts. the dental anesthesiologist stated that he takes call for anesthesia.
that is the problem.
define call.
define case logs in call.
i hope dental anesthesiologists aren’t doing emergency C sections and placing epidurals on 500 lb patents at 3 am
Why is OB call your example? We take in house call 1-2 times/week. At our hospital ON call is separate from our general call. We don’t take OB call. The call we take is general (or whatever you want to call it). We stay in the hospital for 24 hours and are responsible for emergency cases, add-ons, traumas, floor intubations, PACU coverage etc. I’ve literally gone over this already in this thread
". I’m not convinced that you can skip being a general anesthesiologist and do “dental anesthesia” and pretend that they’re equal to a fully boarded general anesthesiologist"
The only relevant equivalence being discussed in this thread is providing dental anesthesia cases at a dental office.
Your surface level argument is that dent anes arent MDs so they cant do these cases as well as an avg MD anes.
So, under further scrutiny, the question becomes...why?
A dental anesthesiologist does far more of these specific cases than a typical anes resident would do. More importantly, a dent anes does these cases in an office based setting. Comfort level is very important to good outcomes
I dont disagree that an MD with equivalent experience in dental cases in a dental office would, on avg, be better than a dent anes.
But that difference will disappear if that dent anes accumulates more experience in their specialized field of practice..vs a general anes practicing at a general non dental practice.
The additional value of medical school wont overcome a large difference in OR experience.
Just like a crna with 10 years of cardiac would likely be more comfortable than a new grad anes
lol
why ob call?
because that’s a fundamental and a very important aspect of being a trained anesthesiologist.
it’s required to graduate and boarded as one.
doesn’t matter if you do a single epidural or spinal after the fact; but the training and exposure is absolutely important.
no serious anesthesia department will allow a dental anesthesiologist to practice full fledged anesthesia services. sure you may just be ok to do outpatient daytime cases but that’s not the same as “i took call”.
pacu coverage is like saying i get dressed to go to work. yeah no s**t. that’s basic. every anesthesiologist does that. i do it while im back in the or doing a case and have to delegate the nurse to watch the patient while i take care of pt in pacu in case they’re not doing well - and to prevent that, we make sure patients are more on the awake side when you drop them
off. again these are only some of the issues you must be experienced in managing.
So what do you consider the 24 continuous hours spent in a hospital providing anesthesia for and managing emergency/add on cases like I described? I’ve never once said I was equivalent to an MD but holy **** your arguments are weaker than wet tissue paper
im honestly really surprised that you are responding to floor intubations/codes, responding to er, and doing emergency general cases.. i have not seen this at any hospital i have worked at.. but i wish you the best
totally honest question - do you know other dental anesthesiologists who are doing this in 2026? responding to airway emergencies in the ed? doing thoracotomies and craniotomies? or is it mostly in dental offices? is there always another anesthesiologist on call with you?
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Yes every dental anesthesiology resident does this. Once we graduate and are in practice we almost exclusively practice in dental offices/dental ASCs
Here are the case minimum requirements from CODA (their version of ACGME)
—————————
2-6 The following list represents the minimum clinical experiences that must be obtained by each resident in the program at the completion of training:
a) Eight hundred (800) total cases of deep sedation/general anesthesia to include the following:
(1) Three hundred (300) intubated general anesthetics of which at least fifty (50) are nasal intubations and twenty-five (25) incorporate advanced airway management techniques. No more than ten (10) of the twenty five (25) advanced airway technique requirements can be blind nasal intubations.
(2) One hundred and twenty five (125) children age seven (7) and under, and
(3) Seventy five (75) patients with special needs, and
b) Clinical experiences sufficient to meet the competency requirements (described in Standard 2-1 and 2-2) in managing ambulatory patients, geriatric patients, patients with physical status ASA III or greater, and patients requiring moderate sedation.
2-10 Residents must participate in at least four (4) months of clinical rotations from the following list. If more than one rotation is selected, each must be at least one month in length.
a) Cardiology,
b) Emergency medicine,
c) General/internal medicine,
d) Intensive care,
e) Pain medicine,
f) Pediatrics,
g) Pre-anesthetic assessment clinic (max. one [1] month), and
h) Pulmonary medicine.
—————————
2-6 The following list represents the minimum clinical experiences that must be obtained by each resident in the program at the completion of training:
a) Eight hundred (800) total cases of deep sedation/general anesthesia to include the following:
(1) Three hundred (300) intubated general anesthetics of which at least fifty (50) are nasal intubations and twenty-five (25) incorporate advanced airway management techniques. No more than ten (10) of the twenty five (25) advanced airway technique requirements can be blind nasal intubations.
(2) One hundred and twenty five (125) children age seven (7) and under, and
(3) Seventy five (75) patients with special needs, and
b) Clinical experiences sufficient to meet the competency requirements (described in Standard 2-1 and 2-2) in managing ambulatory patients, geriatric patients, patients with physical status ASA III or greater, and patients requiring moderate sedation.
2-10 Residents must participate in at least four (4) months of clinical rotations from the following list. If more than one rotation is selected, each must be at least one month in length.
a) Cardiology,
b) Emergency medicine,
c) General/internal medicine,
d) Intensive care,
e) Pain medicine,
f) Pediatrics,
g) Pre-anesthetic assessment clinic (max. one [1] month), and
h) Pulmonary medicine.
Oh so are you saying you do these things as a resident in training ?
Yes we do them while in residency
Its ok. I just figured a big bad MD such as yourself would be able to keep up.
OB aint that important champ, in the context of anesthetic management in office based procedures
I mean...i guess if he happens to run into a pregnant patient, requiring anesthesia at a dental office?? .then again.... a pregnant patient should never be getting procedure in an office like that
But hey, let me know if they point to a lack of OB training as a contributing factor in dental office anesthetic complication rates
I dunno… I’m an ER doc, and as such, I consider myself a simple man.
I *love* my dentist. Srsly. Great dude. Honest. Private practice not PE. I cancelled my dental insurance bc he wasn’t in network, and I just pay cash bc I trust him.
But… he’s not not an anesthesiologist. There is no amount of of training OUTSIDE OF ANAESTHESIOLOGY RESIDENCY that would make me comfortable with actual deep/ general sedation for me or my kids.
As an ER doc, I’m pretty ok with managing narcs/propofol/ketamine/benzos/maybe precedex for whatever for emergent AreYouGoingToDie things are going on - adults OR kids. But I would never, ever, *ever* consider myself to be an appropriate choice for elective procedures.
Anesthesiology is tough. It’s a lot more than than pushing meds and waiting for the case to be over. Thats why there there is a whole residency after med school. Dentistry is tough too. Mad respect but different skill set.
🤷♂️
I *love* my dentist. Srsly. Great dude. Honest. Private practice not PE. I cancelled my dental insurance bc he wasn’t in network, and I just pay cash bc I trust him.
But… he’s not not an anesthesiologist. There is no amount of of training OUTSIDE OF ANAESTHESIOLOGY RESIDENCY that would make me comfortable with actual deep/ general sedation for me or my kids.
As an ER doc, I’m pretty ok with managing narcs/propofol/ketamine/benzos/maybe precedex for whatever for emergent AreYouGoingToDie things are going on - adults OR kids. But I would never, ever, *ever* consider myself to be an appropriate choice for elective procedures.
Anesthesiology is tough. It’s a lot more than than pushing meds and waiting for the case to be over. Thats why there there is a whole residency after med school. Dentistry is tough too. Mad respect but different skill set.
🤷♂️
There is a 3-yr residency for them.
Dental Anesthesia Residency Program | Stony Brook University School of Dental Medicine
They can do a 3 year residency with the same basic curriculum (outside of cardiac and OB)
Hey there.
Srs reply here.
Are the dental “residencies” (no insult meant by the quotes) on par with anesthesiology residencies?
I guess my concern is that every single anesthesia resident already went through 4 yrs of medical school, but the dental resident didn’t.
If you read my original post you’ll note that I’m super respectful toward dentists - I’m just not sure that the dental education is super geared towards hemodynamics, and if needed, resuscitation.
Again - srs question with no flame.
In reality... the difference would be minor.
Crnas doing the average anesthetic case with far less clinical AND lecture experience than a dental a resident would have. So if the world of healthcare is fine with crna level training..no reasons they shouldn't be find with a dental anes training.
Anesthesia residency is heavily geared towards airway, resuscitation, hemodynamics..and a dental resident would get plenty. Med school doesnt really teach the types of things that end up being useful clinically at the end of the day. It just provides a wide background.
If you wanted the highest possible qualifications to handle high risk cardiac and OB, then MD is important
cittykat
Full Member
Decades ago I spent a lot of time memorizing the complement pathway in medical school. They probably teach it in dental school too. Forgot 100% of it and completely irrelevant to my current practice.
cittykat
Full Member
Can be good. I once bought a more modest Porsche sight unseen from a gynecologist on the east coast. I knew the car was legit because the previous owner posted extensively with pictures on rennlist. The only surprise was that when it arrived, it had a Taylor Swift CD in the radio 😂.
www.nytimes.com
One Million Dollars for a Car and No Test Drive? Really?
Many collectors buy their classics online and never touch them until they arrive in their garage. And the practice is growing.
www.nytimes.com
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They actually do determine that. They determine competence, remediation of needed and peer review recommendations before allowing privileges.
Allowing a substandard or unqualified dr to practice is not only dangerous, it’s also unfair to the staff and peers.
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imagine allowing dental anesthesiologists to be on call and simultaneously manage open AAA, accreta, and ex lap on call solo…
yea…
i don’t think so…
in my 16 years of being an anesthesiologist, i have yet to rotate, participate in fall schedule with or come across dental anesthesiologists doing similar work to me.
so they’re not equal. and pretending that they are is uninformed and ignorant.
imagine allowing CRNAs to be on call and simultaneously manage open AAA, accreta, and ex lap on call solo…
Yea i don't think so either
So you havent worked with them in an anesthesia residency program and have no experience to base your statement on?
Got it
My post, that you quoted, compared dental anesthesiologists to crnas in regards to their comparable abilities to handle routine cases.
You countered that a dental anesthesiologist couldn't handle managing 3 ORs with 3 simultaneous emergencies (btw, why would an anesthesiologist manage both OB and an emergency OR?)..also a scenario that crnas couldnt handle and many anesthesiologists wouldnt be comfortable handling.
So your counter argument doesnt apply. But let me know where i said that dental anesthesiologists were "equal" to anesthesiologists?
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cittykat
Full Member
again
low intelligence, low knowledge response.
im curious and surprised at defense of non physicians hijacking our discipline. what’s the motivation? you have a family member or gf that’s a dental anesthesiologist?
in my 16 years, i have worked in 4 different states and currently work in texas. worked across multiple hospital systems and ascs and managed call schedules. currently serve as chief of anesthesia and vice chair or surgery at a dfw hospital ….both of these were nominated without contest - never sought positions or sought votes. i’m already busy. i do not care personally for titles but it’s important to legitimize discussion when educating those who are mis informed is important…
with that said, i have never seen a dental anesthesiologist anywhere even in part of conversation, part of anesthesia call schedule, assigned general surgery cases - let alone ob/ cardiac/peds
never seen groups like northstar, usap, envision or any academic center use dental anesthesiologists for bread and butter anesthesiology services daytime - let alone on call.
so how can equivalence be established?
it’s not the same as cardiac anesthesiologist doing a busy block day at asc and a general anesthesiologist at least starting a heart with art line and cvc while someone who can do tee can come by. all of those scenarios are expected and within scope of any general anesthesiologist. call matters. acuity matters. broad scope of skills and patient management matters to be practicing as an anesthesiologist.
am i missing something?
again, those are not the same credentials.
never even seen a carve out for them or if it was there it’s such a minuscule number that no one cares.
never seen omfs bring their dental anesthesiologist to their cases at hospitals. they put the cases on and the anesthesiologist does them. this i won’t have an issue with but most facilities again, require an md to sign omfs and podiatrist and dds h/p.
doctorate in medicine, not dentistry is what matters.
but hey kids on sdn know more …
regarding crna independence …opt out state is only one part of the conversation. let me educate you….
crna independence is not independent of physician (not only anesthesiologist) supervision, legally. it means that you cannot have two mid levels provide pt care.
for instance, you cannot have a pa doing surgery and crna doing anesthesia. there needs to be either a supervising physician (usually the surgeon who takes on the responsibility of crna as the m.d.).
the reason for this is malpractice. most malpractice carriers in medicare credentialed facility do not underwrite any non-md care. one of them has to legally take responsibility.
most surgeons hate this and refuse to supervise crnas and those who do, employ them directly. like GI and some ortho, but still complain of quality. it’s fine. i don’t have issue with that. it’s their license.
scope of crna independence therefore is a long standing and hotly contested issue which is facility and medical staff bylaws and rules and regulations dependent which depends on type of cases, resources and risk management and expense. it’s not just restricted to an opt out state conversation.
due to shortage of anesthesiologists, crna foot print has naturally increased / doesn’t mean they’ll do what they want.
similar situation applies to dental anesthesiologist or whoever wants to call themselves equivalent of a board certified anesthesiologist with certificate issued by aba.
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Literally has nothing to do with your prior example or my example or anything in my post.
Legal and credentialing requirements vary by state and hospital. They are entirely separate from training and capabilities and not part of my post. They are heavily influenced by politics, lobbying, etc
But to dumb it down to a simpler real world example for you...
You think that a new grad crna (with less required case experience vs dental anesthesiologist) is going to be better than a new grad dental anesthesiologist at doing routine cases at a plastics asc, or perhaps ENT T&A day? Based on what objective criteria?
