Anesthesia<--->Surgery

[excalibur]

---

Members do not see this ad.

We work 2 weeks of days, a week of nights, then a week off.

2 doctors work 2 weeks of days. Mon Wed Fri I'll work 6am-6pm. At 6pm the night dude comes on.

Tues Thurs I'll leave around 3pm.

Those are the day weeks.

Then comes my night week.

I'm resposible for Sat and Sun. Could be bad, could be ok.

Then I come to work at 6pm, Mon-Fri.

The bad news is I could get slaughtered Sat and Sun, then be up every night Mon-Fri.

The good news is I get nine days off in a row after my tortuous week. Which equates to 13 weeks vacation.

Jetpro, during your "2 weeks of days" do you work Sat and Sun too, or do you have them off as well. I'm trying to figure out if it's 21 straight days of work followed by 9 days off, or M-F on days w/ weekends off (x2 wks), followed by a full week of nights including weekend call, and then a week off. Thanks.

 

[excalibur]

double post

 

[Misterioso]

Reasons to do Surgery over Anethesiology
1. More autonomy (In the end, its the surgeon's patient)
2. More procedures (The damn operation vs. a 60 second intubation or line)
3. Don't have to put up with demands (Bed up please, don't give him any more phenylephrine, dammit!)
4. More competitive (scrambling into a CATEGORICAL surgery spot is very difficult unlike Anethesia)
5. More prestigious (They make shows like ER, Gray's about cracking chests, not induction for a reason)
6. More memorable to their patients most of the time. (Self explanatory)
7. Longer, thougher training, but worth it to many.
8. Longer hours, but worth it (Time flies when you operate)

All very excellent points. Most of those reasons are why I'm finding myself leaning more towards surgery than anesthesiology. I believe in a way it has to do with how much heart and passion you have. A prominent surgeon once told me, "some people are leaders and the rest are happy being followers". I'm noticing that more and more in those who go into surgery than those going into anesthesiology. Those who go into surgery have "it"...the confidence, the drive to go after what they want and other intangibles you notice in people who accomplish great things. I suppose that's one reason why the most renowned doctors have usually been surgeons: DeBakey, Cooley, Shumway, Cushing, Starlz, Barnard, etc. That doesn't mean anesthesiologists haven't done innovative things too. I guess it also comes down to personality and ego too. For example I recently saw a PGY5 surgery resident basically order an anesthesiologist to change the CD in the stereo because he didn't like the music someone had put in before his case started, and the anesthesiologist did it without question. I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't like to be a 50-something year old anesthesiologist still taking orders from a resident.

And on the lifestyle thing, Working long-ass hours is a personal choice, not required by the specialty. Many anesthesiologists do it, and many surgeons don't.

This is also a very important point. The saying that surgeons must work tons of hours and have no personal life is fast becoming a myth. So the excuse of not having enough free time that is used to justify going into anesthesiology over surgery is all but moot.

 

[Danger Man]

Oh, I forgot to correct the others before: it's
A=airway
B=book
C=chair
D=dollars
E=envy
😀
Thanks!!

Nice. 🙂

 

[ThinkFast007]

...

Reasons to do Surgery over Anethesiology
1. More autonomy (In the end, its the surgeon's patient)
2. More procedures (The damn operation vs. a 60 second intubation or line)
3. Don't have to put up with demands (Bed up please, don't give him any more phenylephrine, dammit!)
4. More competitive (scrambling into a CATEGORICAL surgery spot is very difficult unlike Anethesia)
5. More prestigious (They make shows like ER, Gray's about cracking chests, not induction for a reason)
6. More memorable to their patients most of the time. (Self explanatory)
7. Longer, thougher training, but worth it to many.
8. Longer hours, but worth it (Time flies when you operate)

Hey man, surgery is all yours. in fact I really invite you to inform more students about the greatness of surgery. What does that leave us 'lonely' anesthesiologists with? It makes us more in demand, since there woulndt be as many of us.

you also forgot

9. Your children, they wont know who the hell you are
10. More divorces
11. The list goes on

 

[jetproppilot]

If all you care about is lifestyle, why not CRNA over Anethesiology?
[.

Lets get over this petty bulls hit. Lets establish SDN anesthesia as a resource . Lets realize that physician extenders are a reality, that professionals exist on every level, and an individual can contribute to healthcare, no matter what their job title is.

When you work in a busy OR, even the transporters are important.

A patient transporter can literally disrupt the OR flow, if they dont take their job seriously.

Dear flaming med students, residents, and attendings,

health care is a team effort.

If your ego is writing checks that your bank account can't cash, then

you are the weak link.

Get over yourself. Send for the next patient, and do whatever has to be done to get the job done.

 

[sleepwithme]

toxic megacolon, u need a laxative cuz your full of shiyat.
first off, the previous posts by jet propilot (you are my idol whenim ur age), and the two grammy winners are great. I am on time off before I start residency, and I have second guessed my decision to join anesthesia, but these posts reminds me why i joined it. I love the work, the physiology, but most important, the people. you anesthesia guys KICK ASS, even the old ones!
as for toxic megab itch, if you are trying to start a big fight or something, its okay.
surgeons are angry for a reason. you dont have time to get laid, you dont have time to have a drink, you dont have time to please your wife which is why ur divorce rate is so high, and the only time you are in control is in the OR. so if working 20 more hours a week for 52 weeks for 5 years is justified by telling me when to raise the bed up or down for you, dont forget that im the one at your house taking care of unfinished business 🙂 i have time,which is why i have this six pack
btw, ill be in cancun next week, anyone coming?

 

[ThinkFast007]

the world needs surgeons and anesthesiologists. One cannot function without the other.

So pick your specialty and stop worrying about who has the bigger ball sac. A few months from now, noone will care who went into what.

And congratulate your surgeon colleague (if you matched anesthesia); and congratulate your anesthesiologist colleague (if you matched surgery).

Better to realize reality now. You need each other.

Your time is better spent opening Corona's, preferably with some ice crystals floating on the top.

i just found out that heineken comes in LIGHT form! mmmmmmmm

 

[toxic-megacolon]

you also forgot

9. Your children, they wont know who the hell you are
10. More divorces
11. The list goes on[/QUOTE]

You missed the whole point of my post. But yes, I can add them to both lists because they both apply to Anethesia<-->Surg, as well
as CRNA<--->Anesth; I'm sure that there are many CRNAs that think that Anethesiologists get divorced and don't know who their children are during residency. Thanks for helping me further prove my point. 👍

 

[excalibur]

Hey Jetpro,
I wrote a question for you a few posts back, don't know if you caught it. SDN was acting up yesterday. Mind checking it real fast?

 

[toxic-megacolon]

toxic megacolon, u need a laxative cuz your full of shiyat.
as for toxic megab itch,
im the one at your house taking care of unfinished business 🙂 i have time,which is why i have this six pack

How old are you? 13? 🙄

 

[toxic-megacolon]

toxic megacolon, u need a laxative cuz your full of shiyat.
as for toxic megab itch,
im the one at your house taking care of unfinished business i have time,which is why i have this six pack

And you realize that after 5 years of residency, there's 30 or so years of practice where you can set your own hours...
I want to emphasize that my original comments were not against either field. I just want to bring some perspective.

 

[candycane]

1. More autonomy (In the end, its the surgeon's patient)
Pt's belong to themselves, no doc owns a pt, we are all there to serve them.

2. More procedures (The damn operation vs. a 60 second intubation or line)
Yeah I'm sorry but I would rather be dropping in a line than resecting dead bowel.

3. Don't have to put up with demands (Bed up please, don't give him any more phenylephrine, dammit!)
Wow, I have found that patient demands are much more bothersome than a physician asking another physician to change the table so that the operation can go smoother and we can all get the hell out of there. Pt's demands usually serve only the purpose of keeping me awake all night on call.

4. More competitive (scrambling into a CATEGORICAL surgery spot is very difficult unlike Anethesia)
If this is your reason to choose any speciality then you should be going for rad-onc or even ortho cause all those guys blow you out of the water

5. More prestigious (They make shows like ER, Gray's about cracking chests, not induction for a reason)
I'm not out for prestige.

6. More memorable to their patients most of the time. (Self explanatory)
We give them drugs so that they will forget us. 🙂 Well not really but it does work in our favor that way! BTW if they dont remember me then I am not the one that they are calling with all their complicaions and chronic pain issues- BONUS!

7. Longer, thougher training, but worth it to many.
Esp to the resident that has three kids and is getting divorced because he was never home and his wife can give a care less that he is going to be a "prestigious" surgeon.

8. Longer hours, but worth it (Time flies when you operate)
Have fun.

In addition you keep mentioning the 80 hour work week. Let me tell you, it only exists on paper. You will work over 80 hrs a week and you will lie about it because if you dont your program's accrediation is dropped and you are looking for a new home - how hard was it to scramble into a Catagorical Surgery spot again??

 

[toxic-megacolon]

Please re-read my post before you reply to it. There are PLENTY of good reasons to go into Anesthesiology over Surgery. My point was like those S.A.T. analogies from way back... Surgery is to Anethesiology as Anethesiology is to CRNA. If you ARE going to refute me, please address that point, not how surgeons go over 80 hours in residency (of course they do), or how you're going to beat me up by getting a six-pack in residency!

 

[Misterioso]

Notice how the apparently laid-back anesthesiology wannabes who apparently don't care about prestige get soooo defensive whenever anything besides glowing positive comments are made about the relative prestige of anesthesiology compared to other specialties, especially surgery.

 

[jetproppilot]

Jetpro, during your "2 weeks of days" do you work Sat and Sun too, or do you have them off as well. I'm trying to figure out if it's 21 straight days of work followed by 9 days off, or M-F on days w/ weekends off (x2 wks), followed by a full week of nights including weekend call, and then a week off. Thanks.

Nope. "Day weeks" are Monday through Friday with weekends off. We work the weekend before our night week. Translates to one weekend call out of four.

 

[excalibur]

Nope. "Day weeks" are Monday through Friday with weekends off. We work the weekend before our night week. Translates to one weekend call out of four.

It is official. When I'm done with med school here at Tulane, I'm gonna do my 4 years of residency (probably in New Orleans), and then I'm gonna track you down and work in your group. Late.

 

[Tenesma]

Toxic Mega-Colon has excellent points... I don't disagree with any of them.

It boils down to what your interests are in medicine and what your interests are outside of medicine. Most people who choose anesthesia tend to have very balanced interests in 1) physiology/pharmacology/critical care and 2) family life, extra-curricular lifestyle.

Some people choose dermatology or rad-onc for different reasons - not because they are trying to impress anybody with their career choice.

Anesthesia is a great choice because when the **** hits the fan, everybody is always happy to see you standing at the door of the patients room --- It is also a great choice because it means you will be making TONS of money without having to dictate charts. And since Anesthesia pretty much means you are replaceable, that allows for 10-18 weeks of vacation a year (depending on where you partner)....

When I was in the OR I never saw it as a competition between me and the surgeons as to who chose the right career... I chose the right career for me and my interests and my family, and I am sure the surgeons chose the right career for them and their interests (except for 2 of my gen. surg. buddies who did anesthesia residency AFTER they got board certified in surgery... hehe...)

A lot of this competition back and forth is at the resident or medical student level for those who have NO CONCEPT of what private practice is ALL about...
By the way, whoever lets themselves be ordered around is an enabler and deserves to be ordered around... In private practice that crap really doesn't happen at all.

 

[automaton]

Pt's belong to themselves, no doc owns a pt, we are all there to serve them.

Wow, I have found that patient demands are much more bothersome than a physician asking another physician to change the table so that the operation can go smoother and we can all get the hell out of there. Pt's demands usually serve only the purpose of keeping me awake all night on call.

We give them drugs so that they will forget us. 🙂 Well not really but it does work in our favor that way! BTW if they dont remember me then I am not the one that they are calling with all their complicaions and chronic pain issues- BONUS!

comments like these are very discouraging for people who are considering anesthesiology. while it is true that not taking care of patients outside of the OR frees you up for more of a personal life, there are people who actually care about the patient's well-being, and not just in the OR. lifestyle and compensation are great but if you are just clocking-in and clocking-out, "getting the hell out of there" like a normal 9-5 job, and view patients as just people who bother you at night, it sets a bad example for future doctors. if you are so eager to get the hell out of there, it makes me wonder how much you like your job.

i will admit anesthesiology is a very attractive field for all the benefits it offers. lifestyle, compensation, high demand, flexibility, not tied to one location, etc. people talk in terms of procedures, interesting physiology, etc. but i am constatly discouraged by what appears to be a shunning of responsibility and relatively low concern for the welfare of patients. very few people mention their joy in helping a patient, or taking care of their problem. all the talk is focused on everything peripheral to the patient, which i think is concerning.

 

[cloud9]

All very excellent points. Most of those reasons are why I'm finding myself leaning more towards surgery than anesthesiology. I believe in a way it has to do with how much heart and passion you have. A prominent surgeon once told me, "some people are leaders and the rest are happy being followers". I'm noticing that more and more in those who go into surgery than those going into anesthesiology. Those who go into surgery have "it"...the confidence, the drive to go after what they want and other intangibles you notice in people who accomplish great things. I suppose that's one reason why the most renowned doctors have usually been surgeons: DeBakey, Cooley, Shumway, Cushing, Starlz, Barnard, etc. That doesn't mean anesthesiologists haven't done innovative things too. I guess it also comes down to personality and ego too. For example I recently saw a PGY5 surgery resident basically order an anesthesiologist to change the CD in the stereo because he didn't like the music someone had put in before his case started, and the anesthesiologist did it without question. I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't like to be a 50-something year old anesthesiologist still taking orders from a resident.

Before I start, I want to emphasize that I am not picking any arguments or slandering any specialities or job occupations. Everybody is important when it comes to patient care. The prominence of surgeons may have more to do with the personality types that have gone into surgery in the past (and maybe the present). It seems that a number of surgeons bask in the public limelight and seem to feed off the noteriety that their life saving procedure provides. It is true that the surgeon "saved the patient's life" and thus his/her role will be plainly obvious. This is really not about being a leader or follower when comparing the two. Some lead by voice and feel they need to be the "established team leader" while others lead by example. The former is more confident and does a better job when they have the feel of being the leader. The later does the same good work but derives their confidence from the satisfaction of doing the job well and accolades don't really increase the feeling of satisfaction. It is just different personality types. Both are confident and both are leaders. The vocal one will be more obvious to others.

The mark of a good anesthesiologist, in my opinion, is not one that can fix the arrhythmia of a patient or efficiently run a code in the OR and bring a patient back. The good anesthesiologist prevents these occurrences from happening in the first place, again, in my opinion. Bringing the patient back is certainly more glamourous and news-making than preventing the code. The anesthesioligist was equally instrumental in "saving the patient" but did so by preventing any additional problems.
I would feel weird to walk up to the family and say, "Yup, I did a bang-up job of staving off those heart attacks and his kidneys are still rock solid due the fluid I gave."
"Uhhh, OK?" would be the probable reply.
Teh importance is not less one way or the other. So I really don't think the two can be compared in these regards.

As far as "being ordered around by a resident". What is less juvenile, changing the CD or making the griping resident yell at a nurse to do it? It is easier to just change the CD, who cares who does it? The surgeon will waste time until the CD is changed, and honestly, I wouldn't want to sit in the room any longer than is necessary. It really doesn't make any sense to pointlessly prolong something. At times the music needs to be turned down to hear the monitors, thus the anesthesilogist could put a stop to the music altogether which would also be juvenile. Just lower the volume if needed and then change it later.

 

[aredoubleyou]

This entire thread makes EVERYONE in medicine look like complete ****ing ******s. Congratulations.

 

[Magnus67]

Most of those reasons are why I'm finding myself leaning more towards surgery than anesthesiology. I believe in a way it has to do with how much heart and passion you have. .

Heart and Passion? with post like this?

"Is it possible to be a surgeon but let others do the postop care?"
"How limited can a general surgeon 'tailor' their practice after residency?"
"So I wonder is it possible for a general surgeon to do only the most basic/routine cases (appendectomies, hernias, gallbladders)?"

OMG when real surgeons get their hand on you. 🙂

POSER

 

[jetproppilot]

comments like these are very discouraging for people who are considering anesthesiology. while it is true that not taking care of patients outside of the OR frees you up for more of a personal life, there are people who actually care about the patient's well-being, and not just in the OR. lifestyle and compensation are great but if you are just clocking-in and clocking-out, "getting the hell out of there" like a normal 9-5 job, and view patients as just people who bother you at night, it sets a bad example for future doctors. if you are so eager to get the hell out of there, it makes me wonder how much you like your job.

i will admit anesthesiology is a very attractive field for all the benefits it offers. lifestyle, compensation, high demand, flexibility, not tied to one location, etc. people talk in terms of procedures, interesting physiology, etc. but i am constatly discouraged by what appears to be a shunning of responsibility and relatively low concern for the welfare of patients. very few people mention their joy in helping a patient, or taking care of their problem. all the talk is focused on everything peripheral to the patient, which i think is concerning.

Find it discouraging?

I can understand your viewpoint.

But only if I was a med student.

Because med students, and med students alone, are the only individuals that perpetuate these thought processes.

I've been in the OR for ten years post-residency, dudes/dudettes.

And no turf war exists on whose-patient-the-patient-is.

I've said this several times.

And I'll say it again.

Med school is a very "heady" time. Egos. Whos better. What specialty dudes are going into.

Look ten years down the road.

You're a surgeon. You've posted an IHR.

All you care about is getting the case done.

Now lets change specialtys.

Youre an anesthesiologist.

A surgeon has posted an IHR.

All you care about is getting the case done.

Of course, both physicians care about optimum care of the patient. Thats SO MUCH assumed, that its not even mentioned. Both physicians will take great care of the patient.

Again, you med students are creating an egotistical hype that just doesnt exist in private practice.

Get over your philanthropic, "thats my patient not yours", perpetual bulls hit.

Cuz thats all it is.

Inexperienced, egocentric individuals perpetuating some anesthesia-surgery turf war that doesnt exist in the real, private-practice world beyond your very-small-academic-microcosm.

Stop perpetuating your egocentric myths.

 

[Misterioso]

As far as "being ordered around by a resident". What is less juvenile, changing the CD or making the griping resident yell at a nurse to do it? It is easier to just change the CD, who cares who does it? The surgeon will waste time until the CD is changed, and honestly, I wouldn't want to sit in the room any longer than is necessary. It really doesn't make any sense to pointlessly prolong something. At times the music needs to be turned down to hear the monitors, thus the anesthesilogist could put a stop to the music altogether which would also be juvenile. Just lower the volume if needed and then change it later.

Those are good points. But it illustrates the power dynamics between surgeons and everyone else in the OR. The CD example is just one example. Another was when the anesthesiologist or OR nurse were chatting to someone during a case and the surgeon looked up and simply said "Quiet" and everyone in the OR immediately shut up for the rest of the case, except for when the surgeon instructed his resident on the other side of the table or gave orders to the scrub nurse or anesthesiologist.

 

[miamidc]

Those are good points. But it illustrates the power dynamics between surgeons and everyone else in the OR. The CD example is just one example. Another was when the anesthesiologist or OR nurse were chatting to someone during a case and the surgeon looked up and simply said "Quiet" and everyone in the OR immediately shut up for the rest of the case, except for when the surgeon instructed his resident on the other side of the table or gave orders to the scrub nurse or anesthesiologist.

Dude, honestly power in the mind of the beholder. If you have to be shouting, berateing and directing people all day long to achieve a sense of power or superiority then do it and make yourself happy, whether that be being an asshhole surgeon ( Not saying all are, in fact less than half I've worked with are) or an asshhole construction foreman. Whatever. If you think those same power dynamics work in the real world, you are crazy. By the way, an attending surgeon getting off on ordering around a resident Anesthesiologist goes to prove what they have to do to feel good about themseleves. You took Psych right. Why is it that the Gas folk are more content and don't feel the need to berate, rather they have a sense of humor, whatnot. Point is you give everyone, not only surgeons a bad name. I hope you come to terms with your lack of control issues, and maybe becoming an asshhole surgeon will serve you that purpose, but good luck in life. Life is more than the OR, that is what you have to understand.

 

[Misterioso]

Dude, honestly power in the mind of the beholder. If you have to be shouting, berateing and directing people all day long to achieve a sense of power or superiority then do it and make yourself happy, whether that be being an asshhole surgeon ( Not saying all are, in fact less than half I've worked with are) or an asshhole construction foreman. Whatever. If you think those same power dynamics work in the real world, you are crazy. By the way, an attending surgeon getting off on ordering around a resident Anesthesiologist goes to prove what they have to do to feel good about themseleves. You took Psych right. Why is it that the Gas folk are more content and don't feel the need to berate, rather they have a sense of humor, whatnot. Point is you give everyone, not only surgeons a bad name. I hope you come to terms with your lack of control issues, and maybe becoming an asshhole surgeon will serve you that purpose, but good luck in life. Life is more than the OR, that is what you have to understand.

Who said anything about shouting or berating? All he did was look up from the operative field and say "Quiet" in a normal tone of voice. The power comes with the position and that's why everyone shut up. Do you think the surgeon would have stopped talking if it was the anesthesiologist who had said quiet? Of course not.

The real issue is that lots of anesthesiologists are uncomfortable with or dislike the fact that surgeons have more power than them in their work environment (the OR), and so they compensate with a passive-aggressive approach, which usually entails talking about "life outside the OR" or other things that are irrelevent to work. It's almost as if they want to compensate for being one up'ed at work by implying they automatically have more time for a better life outside of work just because they aren't surgeons, which of course is ridiculous given that after residency surgeons can tailor their practice to work as many or less hours than anesthesiologists.

 

[freshity]

i'm happy to connect to what jetpropilot is saying with regard to how people act outside of residency. having worked in the real world before med school i'll agree int he sense that most people are able to shove their personal stuff to the side when it comes to focusing on their jobs. i've always been underwhelmed to find that med students and residents overcontemplate the importance of their work in other people's eyes. sounds like a few people here do that too. it's unfortunate. but the way i see it, if i'm in the or as an anesthesiologist, and the surgeon, or the scrube nurse, or whomever, tends to address people in a rude way, feeling like they need to make orders instead of asking in a normal way, then that's THEIR problem. i don't absorb people's bad attitudes and react to them. in that way, their problem stays theirs. at most, i let them know, in a normal tone of voice, that the best way to speak to me is the way that i speak to them, and if they pay attention, it's the same way that most of us speak to each other. since i don't have that sort of personal problem, very often i don't even notice it enough to react to it. and really, we've got better things to do in life than get mixed up in someone's personal problems--like, they see too many things as some sort of a reflection of them (unless, it affects their ability to focus on their work when necessary). i feel sad for these people. to have accomplished so much in your life and still be so consumed by how other people see you. i think perhaps your parents missed something really early in your rearing about teaching you that you're ok, that everything is pretty much ok, and that it's not all about you.

however, in the words of the great bob marley, "i'm not gonna school you on things you might never know about." my concerns are about me and the job i do, and the image i portray. i don't operate with malice. i don't try to make people feel bad. i want people to walk away from their interactions with me feeling pretty good about how it went. why would i try to generate more negative energy than what already exists? so if by the time you get this far in life you still don't know how to talk to people, or you still have your ego all wrapped up in your job and your every move in a negative way, and you wonder how "good" you look to other people too much of the time, then that's really, sadly only your problem. it really, truly is. you need way more than anything i could give you in the form of any reaction.

 

[militarymd]

This was a story I heard from one of my co-workers who trained at Yale with Barash.


He told me that one day, a CT fellow was giving him (Barash) a load of crap about how the anesthetic was proceeding.

Barash, being a passive-aggressive anesthesia type (per myterio), shuts the anesthesia machine off, and says "if you think you can do a better job, then do it yourself"....and walks out of the OR.

It was quite amusing the way the CT fellow ran down the OR hallway groveling to Dr. Barash , " Paul, paul, PLeasseeeee come back....I'm sorry...I didn't mean what I said"

 

[Misterioso]

It would have been a lot easier if he just got a CNA to substitute in for the anesthesiologist who abandoned the patient.

 

[Laryngospasm]

It would have been a lot easier if he just got a CNA to substitute in for the anesthesiologist who abandoned the patient.

I used to be a certified novell administrator, and I can tell you I would have been no help at that time 😉

 

[Misterioso]

I used to be a certified novell administrator, and I can tell you I would have been no help at that time 😉

Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you could've moved the operating table up and down, changed the CD in stereo, sat and read the newspaper... 😛

 

[fastosprintini]

can't we just all agree that misrerioso is a troll and ignore him?

 

[militarymd]

 

[jetproppilot]

This was a story I heard from one of my co-workers who trained at Yale with Barash.


He told me that one day, a CT fellow was giving him (Barash) a load of crap about how the anesthetic was proceeding.

Barash, being a passive-aggressive anesthesia type (per myterio), shuts the anesthesia machine off, and says "if you think you can do a better job, then do it yourself"....and walks out of the OR.

It was quite amusing the way the CT fellow ran down the OR hallway groveling to Dr. Barash , " Paul, paul, PLeasseeeee come back....I'm sorry...I didn't mean what I said"

I did several months at Texas Heart during my PGY-3 year.

On my second day there it was about 6pm and I was waiting for the elevator to go up to one of the patient floors to do a cuppla pre-ops.

The elevator door opens, and only one person was in the elevator. Tall, slim dude in scrubs, gray hair, nice lookin dude, looks to be in his sixties.

I'm kinda the friendly type, so I walk in the elevator.

Jet: "Hey, how ya doin'?"

Man: "Doing great. How are you?"

Jet: "Doin' fine, thanks."

Man: "Are you a resident?"

Jet: "Yessir. From Tulane. Doin my CV rotation here for a few months. Houston's an awesome city, huh? I'm likin' it here. Are you from here?"

Man: Chuckles. "Guess you could say that. I've been here for quite a while."

we had a few more lines of friendly conversation.

Elevator stops, door opens. Time for me to exit.

Jet: "Hey, nice talkin' to you! My name is Bill *****".

Man: "Nice talking with you, Bill!" shakes my hand... "I'm Denton Cooley."

Probably the most famous heart surgeon on earth, striking up conversation on an elevator with a lowly resident.

I had the privelege of operating with him many times over the ensuing months I was there. Always friendly, respectful.


Second best Texas Heart story:

My room was set up for the next CABG, and I was sitting in the lounge drinking some orange juice, laid back, waiting for the patient.

Dude in scrubs walks in.

"How ya doin?"

Jet: "Great. You?"

"Doin fine. Are you in room nine?"

"Yes."

"Good. I'm David Ott. I'm ready when you are." 😱

For those of you who havent had the privelege of rotating through Texas Heart, David Ott is a Denton Cooley prototype...maybe better. I loved doing cases with him. During the pump run I used to stare over the drape in awe as he sewed in his grafts...literally no wasted motion...dudes a human sewing machine. Graceful. Incredibly fast. About 7 minutes per vessel.

My point is...here I am at this great institution...surrounded by greatness...and I'm this pissant anesthesia resident, and these world renowned surgeons treated me like a colleague... not the inexperienced resident I was.

That, my friends, is true greatness.

When you are at the top of your field, and you don't feel the need to belittle people around you.

Mike Duncan, another phenomenal heart surgeon there, was the same way.

What a great experience that was. I left that place a better anesthesiologist, full of respect for the legends that operate there.

 

[jetproppilot]

Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you could've moved the operating table up and down, changed the CD in stereo, sat and read the newspaper... 😛

Uh, inexperienced, green med student,

please read my post below about real life, rock-star surgeons.

Denton Cooley would laugh at your arrogance. Geez. You havent even started yet and you're already a d ickhead.

You'll never touch greatness with an attitude like that.

 

[Misterioso]

Uh, inexperienced, green med student,

please read my post below about real life, rock-star surgeons.

Denton Cooley would laugh at your arrogance. Geez. You havent even started yet and you're already a d ickhead.

You'll never touch greatness with an attitude like that.

jet,

For every one great surgeon you met who happened to be a "nice guy" there's about a dozen not-so-nice surgeons who are also legends. Being arrogant does not keep you from greatness....think Barnard, DeBakey, Norwood, etc.

 

[militarymd]

jet,

For every one great surgeon you met who happened to be a "nice guy" there's about a dozen not-so-nice surgeons who are also legends. Being arrogant does not keep you from greatness....think Barnard, DeBakey, Norwood, etc.

I know Norwood....they kicked him out of CHOPS...now he's at Dupont...and ....uh I wouldn't let him touch my children....because he's nuts.

 

[Misterioso]

I know Norwood....they kicked him out of CHOPS...now he's at Dupont...and ....uh I wouldn't let him touch my children....because he's nuts.

The man invented the most complex procedure in congenital heart surgery. Show some respect.

Did you ever get a chance to read "Walk on Water"? There's a part where they talk about the Norwood Procedure and how Mee made a modification to it, and they asked Norwood what he thought of the modification and his only reply was something like "I don't care, it works fine the way I invented it". Classic.

 

[bullard]

I know Norwood....they kicked him out of CHOPS...now he's at Dupont...and ....uh I wouldn't let him touch my children....because he's nuts.

Why'd he get kicked out?

 

[jetproppilot]

jet,

For every one great surgeon you met who happened to be a "nice guy" there's about a dozen not-so-nice surgeons who are also legends. Being arrogant does not keep you from greatness....think Barnard, DeBakey, Norwood, etc.

Guess youre right.

If you think one-dimensionally.

Guess my opinion of greatness is different than yours.

 

[militarymd]

Why'd he get kicked out?

Because he was nuts.

 

[bullard]

Because he was nuts.

Fine...but anything specific? Did he get diagnosed with schizophrenia? Did his postop complication rate skyrocket? Did he start giving the kids boob jobs?

 

[Misterioso]

bullard,

Norwood's a genius who invented one of the most intricate surgical procedures known to man which has saved countless lives. So of course you're going to get lesser people who are jealous of him trying to undermine him. But as the saying goes "you can't keep a good man down". The same kind of stuff happened to Barnard after he shocked the world by performing the first ever heart transplant. But he got the last laugh by snatching up countless supermodels and hottie celebrities as he travelled around the world as an international playboy while rubbing it in the face of the envious people who were trying to bring him down. Professional jealousy runs rampant in medicine.

 

[automaton]

Barash, being a passive-aggressive anesthesia type (per myterio), shuts the anesthesia machine off, and says "if you think you can do a better job, then do it yourself"....and walks out of the OR.

wtf? was the patient at least safe? what kind of behavior is that?

 

[toxic-megacolon]

jet,

For every one great surgeon you met who happened to be a "nice guy" there's about a dozen not-so-nice surgeons who are also legends. Being arrogant does not keep you from greatness....think Barnard, DeBakey, Norwood, etc.

I think Shumway and Najarian were also asses, Great nontheless.. That said, the surgeons that have made the greatest impression on ME have been the nice ones. Malignant surgeons, for the most part, are a dime a dozen.

 

[Misterioso]

Shumway was a gentleman from everything I've read. He passed away only a couple weeks ago. What was written about him by former colleagues he had trained and worked with painted a very kind picture of him, as did comments that poured in by patients he had treated.

Something I found intriguing was that even though he and Lower invented the procedure for heart tranplantation and Barnard stole the show by learning it from them and then going back to SA and doing it first, he never became disgruntled over the fact he was not the first to do the procedure he had invented. In fact he was heavily responsible for keeping the field of heart transplantation going after the initial novelty had worn off and people began abandoning it due to poor survival because of rejection. While Barnard was flying all over the world soaking up his new found fame, Shumway was busy advancing and improving heart transplantation. He was a true giant, both in his profession and in his character.

 

[bullard]

My question was for militarymd, not you.

bullard,

Norwood's a genius who invented one of the most intricate surgical procedures known to man which has saved countless lives. So of course you're going to get lesser people who are jealous of him trying to undermine him. But as the saying goes "you can't keep a good man down". The same kind of stuff happened to Barnard after he shocked the world by performing the first ever heart transplant. But he got the last laugh by snatching up countless supermodels and hottie celebrities as he travelled around the world as an international playboy while rubbing it in the face of the envious people who were trying to bring him down. Professional jealousy runs rampant in medicine.

 

[undecided05]

the world needs surgeons and anesthesiologists. One cannot function without the other.

So pick your specialty and stop worrying about who has the bigger ball sac. A few months from now, noone will care who went into what.

And congratulate your surgeon colleague (if you matched anesthesia); and congratulate your anesthesiologist colleague (if you matched surgery).

Better to realize reality now. You need each other.

Your time is better spent opening Corona's, preferably with some ice crystals floating on the top.

Agreed, and as you stated, stop worrying about who has the bigger ball sac, b/c I have the largest set around.. at least that's what I've been told.

 

[undecided05]

This may be too simplified, but...

As someone alluded, if sugery asks anesthesia to be quiet or something to that affect, anesthesia usually complies with reasonable surgery requests.

When anesthesia makes request of surgery to be quiet and it's reasonable, surgery usually also complies.

When anesthesia makes general request for surgery to stop whatever they're doing...
#1 surgeon stops
#2 all sphincters in the room get a bit tighter
#3 Surgeron usually responds, "everything ok?" vs "what's wrong?"