Anesthesiology assistant

[lady1]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi friends..

Could you tell me what the pro and cons are of working in anesthesiology / as an anesthesiology assistant?
Do these people get respected in the OR?

Im applying for medical school.. But if I don't get in I'm considering this path..

 

[DeadSpace]

Be a PA instead. Or a pharmacist. Or a Dentist. Or an Optometrist. Or a Perfusionist.

Those careers pay pretty well and can work in all 50 states and don't have nurses out to kill their firstborn.

 

[acidbase1]

I don’t think being an AA is a bad gig

 

[Man o War]

Be a PA instead. Or a pharmacist. Or a Dentist. Or an Optometrist. Or a Perfusionist.

Those careers pay pretty well and can work in all 50 states and don't have nurses out to kill their firstborn.

Yeah, I have to concur although I prefer working with AAs. The nurses are absolutely rabid when you start talking about practice rights. Crazy and psycho are also words that come to mind. Take a look at any online post on the topic and you will see what I mean.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Hi friends..

Could you tell me what the pro and cons are of working in anesthesiology / as an anesthesiology assistant?
Do these people get respected in the OR?

Im applying for medical school.. But if I don't get in I'm considering this path..

depends on what your ultimate goal is. do you actually want to be a doctor? are you considering becoming an anesthesiologist? is this just another stepping stone to your goals? or are you willing to call it quits and settle with something?

 

[lady1]

Be a PA instead. Or a pharmacist. Or a Dentist. Or an Optometrist. Or a Perfusionist.

Those careers pay pretty well and can work in all 50 states and don't have nurses out to kill their firstborn.

I shadowed a dentist.. Didnt like to work with my hands on every mm.
Pharmacy was too distant and more like running a shop. And the rest dont sound interesting either.. Sorry 🙂

 

[lady1]

depends on what your ultimate goal is. do you actually want to be a doctor? are you considering becoming an anesthesiologist? is this just another stepping stone to your goals? or are you willing to call it quits and settle with something?

Well my goal is becoming a doctor. I am an non traditional student, 26 years ago with already a law degree.
But I live in Europe and in my country you can only take the admission test 2 times in a lifetime. I have taken it for the last time now.. But If I dont get in this time I just want a career that fulfills my need..

 

[lady1]

Yeah, I have to concur although I prefer working with AAs. The nurses are absolutely rabid when you start talking about practice rights. Crazy and psycho are also words that come to mind. Take a look at any online post on the topic and you will see what I mean.

Is a nurse more respected than a AA?

 

[Aether2000]

CRNAs are accepted in all 50 states plus DC. AAs are accepted in 16 states plus DC.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Is a nurse more respected than a AA?

AA and CRNA skill-set, knowledge-base and qualifications are the same. For you the AA pathway would be shorter. For now, AA have more limitation in terms of where they can practice but this will likely change in the near future. CRNAs can practice independently in some states which is merely a reflection of their lobbying strength and a gullible public. There is a small (I think?) community of CRNAs who believe they are equivalent to us. I think they are deluded. I think for the most part, anesthesiologists prefer working with AA where possible because they don't have to deal with the militant CRNA b.s.

 

[Man o War]

Is a nurse more respected than a AA?

From the OR staff? No. I would say the same.
For me personally? I respect the nurses less. They all belong to the AANA, an organization I have less than zero respect for.

 

[btbam]

Be a PA instead. Or a pharmacist. Or a Dentist. Or an Optometrist. Or a Perfusionist.

Those careers pay pretty well and can work in all 50 states and don't have nurses out to kill their firstborn.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Aren't you a CA-1? What do you know about perfusion as a profession? I'm an AA, never in a million years would I trade my profession to become a PA/pharmacist/perfusionist (professions I interact with every day). Not only do I make significantly more money than any of those jobs, my job is far more interesting and challenging! One of my friends is a perfusionist who I work with often in the pedi heart rooms frequently talks about going back to AA school, do you have any idea how boring perfusion is?

 

[DeadSpace]

Where do you come up with this stuff? Aren't you a CA-1? What do you know about perfusion as a profession? I'm an AA, never in a million years would I trade my profession to become a PA/pharmacist/perfusionist (professions I interact with every day). Not only do I make significantly more money than any of those jobs, my job is far more interesting and challenging! One of my friends is a perfusionist who I work with often in the pedi heart rooms frequently talks about going back to AA school, do you have any idea how boring perfusion is?

Boring or exciting is a subjective thing. States you can work in and political battles are an objective thing.

I'm just giving the OP a heads up so they can look into the details to make an informed decision.

 

[btbam]

Boring or exciting is a subjective thing. States you can work in and political battles are an objective thing.

I'm just giving the OP a heads up so they can look into the details to make an informed decision.

You aren’t giving a heads up. You literally said do any of these other professions instead.

 

[lady1]

Thanks for the responses.. 🙂

 

[lady1]

Thanks for the responses 🙂

 

[lady1]

You aren’t giving a heads up. You literally said do any of these other professions instead.

I am curious.
Can you tell me more about your daily tasks? How you get approached by surgeons and surgery team?
The pro and cons of the profession?
Can you be a introvert in this job? How physically tasking is it?

 

[anbuitachi]

Where do you come up with this stuff? Aren't you a CA-1? What do you know about perfusion as a profession? I'm an AA, never in a million years would I trade my profession to become a PA/pharmacist/perfusionist (professions I interact with every day). Not only do I make significantly more money than any of those jobs, my job is far more interesting and challenging! One of my friends is a perfusionist who I work with often in the pedi heart rooms frequently talks about going back to AA school, do you have any idea how boring perfusion is?

AA can make more than any of those fields, and any of those fields can make more than AA (except perfusion which i dont know much about in terms of contract). Ive known PAs making upper 300ks, pharmacists have the highest ceiling among the mentioned fields, many make more than doctors.

I am curious.
Can you tell me more about your daily tasks? How you get approached by surgeons and surgery team?
The pro and cons of the profession?
Can you be a introvert in this job? How physically tasking is it?

I think introvert can do it. It is also physically tasking cause you will be moving patients

 

[btbam]

AA can make more than any of those fields, and any of those fields can make more than AA (except perfusion which i dont know much about in terms of contract). Ive known PAs making upper 300ks, pharmacists have the highest ceiling among the mentioned fields, many make more than doctors.


I think introvert can do it. It is also physically tasking cause you will be moving patients

PAs making upper 300s? Doing what?

 

[Aether2000]

PAs making high 300s would be profoundly rare. The average across the US (salary) ranges from about 95k-150k according to published current stats depending on the location. As for interchangeability, most hospitals in my area use AAs and CRNAs to be completely fungible.

 

[anbuitachi]

PAs making upper 300s? Doing what?

They were surgery PAs getting paid 170k for 40hrs. They took on more shifts, essentially working almost 60-80 hrs a week and was making up to mid 300s

PAs making high 300s would be profoundly rare. The average across the US (salary) ranges from about 95k-150k according to published current stats depending on the location. As for interchangeability, most hospitals in my area use AAs and CRNAs to be completely fungible.

yea it is rare. then again its like that thread about nurses/NP and how some of them make in the 400ks. i think it was on the california database

 

[pgg]

Or a Perfusionist.

I've always been struck by what a cool job perfusionists have, and it's totally off the radar of virtually everyone looking at a career in healthcare. Reasonable hours*, good pay, minimal liability, relatively short schooling (there are bachelor programs, and masters programs for people with unrelated bachelor degrees already).


* absent a busy ECMO program at the hospital

 

[Psai]

I've always been struck by what a cool job perfusionists have, and it's totally off the radar of virtually everyone looking at a career in healthcare. Reasonable hours*, good pay, minimal liability, relatively short schooling (there are bachelor programs, and masters programs for people with unrelated bachelor degrees already).


* absent a busy ECMO program at the hospital

It is really expensive to keep a perfusionist on call 24/7 for ecmo. Well into 6 figures just for the call.

 

[btbam]

I've always been struck by what a cool job perfusionists have, and it's totally off the radar of virtually everyone looking at a career in healthcare. Reasonable hours*, good pay, minimal liability, relatively short schooling (there are bachelor programs, and masters programs for people with unrelated bachelor degrees already).


* absent a busy ECMO program at the hospital

At our hospital perfusion is not involved in ECMO. It’s a whole separate team of nurses.

 

[GA8314]

Is a nurse more respected than a AA?

I think AA is a very good career. Almost went to AA school but decided to go all the way. If you don't have that "choice" then I think it's a great career. They will only grow in # of state able to practice and besides that, the states that they are able to practice, they seem to have a good gig.

 

[W19]

Where do you come up with this stuff? Aren't you a CA-1? What do you know about perfusion as a profession? I'm an AA, never in a million years would I trade my profession to become a PA/pharmacist/perfusionist (professions I interact with every day). Not only do I make significantly more money than any of those jobs, my job is far more interesting and challenging! One of my friends is a perfusionist who I work with often in the pedi heart rooms frequently talks about going back to AA school, do you have any idea how boring perfusion is?

I doubt you make significantly more than 130k, which is what most pharmacists make...

 

[btbam]

I doubt you make significantly more than 130k, which is what most pharmacists make...

I mean I’m not going to post my W2 on the internet, but yes I do actually.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I doubt you make significantly more than 130k, which is what most pharmacists make...

An Anesthesia Assistant working 50 hours per week (a typical work week for many of us) can expect a W-2 income of $190-200K with benefits. There are AAs working a lot of overtime making much more than that amount as well.

 

[W19]

An Anesthesia Assistant working 50 hours per week (a typical work week for many of us) can expect a W-2 income of $190-200K with benefits. There are AAs working a lot of overtime making much more than that amount as well.

I guess it's a better investment than becoming a primary care physician then...

 

[BLADEMDA]

I guess it's a better investment than becoming a primary care physician then...

Primary care Physician income is in the $250K range with benefits. These are very different careers in terms of day to day work (AA vs Family Practice).

 

[AdmiralChz]

An Anesthesia Assistant working 50 hours per week (a typical work week for many of us) can expect a W-2 income of $190-200K with benefits. There are AAs working a lot of overtime making much more than that amount as well.

Yep - Many I work with will work a full work week (something like 3 12s or 4 10s) and then have side gigs for a shift or two a week. I am sure they easily clear 150K, if not 200K. At my residency (academic university hospital), AAs with 5 years crossed the $150K bar.

Plus they can easily back it off after 5-10 years once they pay off the school debt and buy a nice house. It's a good gig for a straight up masters program.

 

[drmwvr]

At our hospital perfusion is not involved in ECMO. It’s a whole separate team of nurses.

In the more "inland" continental US, establishing ecmo is a maybe 5 times a year event at some centers that still do hearts (LVADS are the stuff of fantasy) No way for nursing to provide a coherent ecmo care service, so it falls to the perfusionists. Here in the wheat and corn, the perfusionists run cell saver, do perfusion, manage IABP and ECMO. Fantastic opportunity, but job opening occurs because of death or disability and are "word of mouth". If only I knew then what I know now...

 

[btbam]

Yep - Many I work with will work a full work week (something like 3 12s or 4 10s) and then have side gigs for a shift or two a week. I am sure they easily clear 150K, if not 200K. At my residency (academic university hospital), AAs with 5 years crossed the $150K bar.

Plus they can easily back it off after 5-10 years once they pay off the school debt and buy a nice house. It's a good gig for a straight up masters program.

Yep, spot on post. I’ve been doing this almost 7 years now. Our hospital has a 6 year pay scale and I’m at the top plus take call, and pick up occasional PRN shifts.

 

[jwk]

Every practice is different with their style of compensation. The saying "all healthcare is local" applies at a lot of different levels, including compensation. It doesn't matter if it sounds unreasonably high in one area or absurdly low in another. In the end, someone is going to have to be in the OR doing the case, and they're going to have to be paid to do that, whether physician, AA, or CRNA. We have to pay what we have to pay to maintain the level of service we are obligated to provide.

 

[deleted87051]

Increased supervision ratio from 1:4 to 1:8. One of the sponsors is an AA.

SB 364 2017-2018 Regular Session

 

[jwk]

Increased supervision ratio from 1:4 to 1:8. One of the sponsors is an AA.

SB 364 2017-2018 Regular Session

You're mistaken as to the intent and purpose. It does NOT increase supervision ratios. I'll explain more after dinner. 🙂

 

[deleted87051]

You're mistaken as to the intent and purpose. It does NOT increase supervision ratios. I'll explain more after dinner. 🙂

Aaah it’s a licensing thing?

 

[LunchMD]

I may be misreading it, but looks like it doesn't have anything to do with supervision ratios, and is just that 1 physician can't have more than 8 AAs licensed to them at any time. So maybe prevents 1 physician licencing 16 AAs and rotating supervising 4 of them at a time on dofdiffer days or something. I don't really know what I'm talking about

 

[jwk]

You're mistaken as to the intent and purpose. It does NOT increase supervision ratios. I'll explain more after dinner. 🙂

Yes, it's related to licensing.

Medical direction for AAs is set at 1:4. It may be tighter than that in a couple states, but the CMS max is than four anesthetists can be medically directed at any one time.

Licensing is a different issue. In Georgia, there are sponsoring physicians and alternate supervising physicians, with specific regulations for each. I think this is similar in most states. A sponsoring physician is required for each AA (and PA) in Georgia. This is the physician that the AA is "licensed to". Georgia also allows any number of alternate supervising physicians that can also medically direct an AA in the absence of the sponsoring physician. So, while I have a single sponsoring physician, I have roughly 65 alternate supervising physicians - every other physician in my group. So while I am always medically directed by an anesthesiologist, it may not be by my sponsoring physician. He and I work different schedules, and we both work at varying locations. If there were no alternate supervising physicians, I would always have to work at the same place at the same time as my sponsoring physician. Obviously that's not manageable or efficient.

The change in Georgia law this year increases the number of AAs an anesthesiologist may associate with as a sponsoring physician from four to eight. While in most groups this is not even a concern, in larger groups that cover multiple hospitals and ASCs it becomes very important. Again, the anesthesiologist cannot medically direct more than four anesthetists at any given time.

 

[deleted87051]

Yes, it's related to licensing.

Medical direction for AAs is set at 1:4. It may be tighter than that in a couple states, but the CMS max is than four anesthetists can be medically directed at any one time.

Licensing is a different issue. In Georgia, there are sponsoring physicians and alternate supervising physicians, with specific regulations for each. I think this is similar in most states. A sponsoring physician is required for each AA (and PA) in Georgia. This is the physician that the AA is "licensed to". Georgia also allows any number of alternate supervising physicians that can also medically direct an AA in the absence of the sponsoring physician. So, while I have a single sponsoring physician, I have roughly 65 alternate supervising physicians - every other physician in my group. So while I am always medically directed by an anesthesiologist, it may not be by my sponsoring physician. He and I work different schedules, and we both work at varying locations. If there were no alternate supervising physicians, I would always have to work at the same place at the same time as my sponsoring physician. Obviously that's not manageable or efficient.

The change in Georgia law this year increases the number of AAs an anesthesiologist may associate with as a sponsoring physician from four to eight. While in most groups this is not even a concern, in larger groups that cover multiple hospitals and ASCs it becomes very important. Again, the anesthesiologist cannot medically direct more than four anesthetists at any given time.

Thanks for the clarification. English is my 2nd language😉

 

[Psai]

Thanks for the clarification. English is my 2nd language😉

Its my first

 

[jwk]

I may be misreading it, but looks like it doesn't have anything to do with supervision ratios, and is just that 1 physician can't have more than 8 AAs licensed to them at any time. So maybe prevents 1 physician licencing 16 AAs and rotating supervising 4 of them at a time on dofdiffer days or something. I don't really know what I'm talking about

The previous limit was four. Eight makes things easier. 16 wouldn't really matter as long as only four are medically directed at one time, but isn't necessary. I know for my group, the move to eight is a big deal as far as scheduling and logistics.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

I'm applying for AA this year to start in 2019, I've been researching it for a while and it seems like a risk for a few reasons.

1. They can only practice in 17 states plus DC, and people swear " this will change in the near future" but its been the same since 2007 only gaining one state to practice in.

2. CRNA schools proliferating unchecked will affect the job market and pay for both CRNAs and AAs.

3. Even in states where AAs have practice rights, only a few hospitals hire AAs, that's probably the most concerning one. Nurses have too much damn power and AAs have no means to fight back.

AA seems to be a profession that pays really well at a base of 150k-160k with the potential to make 200k with overtime, but thats IF you can find a job. If it ever gets to the point where the job market is tight AAs would be at a significant disadvantage and the degree would be useless.

In the end, I figure its worth the risk for the amount of training of only 2 years, income potential, and 100% job placement ( for now), but I would be lying if I said I didn't have my apprehensions about it. Gaining practice rights in more states would significantly ease my stress, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

 

[jwk]

I'm applying for AA this year to start in 2019, I've been researching it for a while and it seems like a risk for a few reasons.

1. They can only practice in 17 states plus DC, and people swear " this will change in the near future" but its been the same since 2007 only gaining one state to practice in.

2. CRNA schools proliferating unchecked will affect the job market and pay for both CRNAs and AAs.

3. Even in states where AAs have practice rights, only a few hospitals hire AAs, that's probably the most concerning one. Nurses have too much damn power and AAs have no means to fight back.

AA seems to be a profession that pays really well at a base of 150k-160k with the potential to make 200k with overtime, but thats IF you can find a job. If it ever gets to the point where the job market is tight AAs would be at a significant disadvantage and the degree would be useless.

In the end, I figure its worth the risk for the amount of training of only 2 years, income potential, and 100% job placement ( for now), but I would be lying if I said I didn't have my apprehensions about it. Gaining practice rights in more states would significantly ease my stress, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

Good luck.

1) More states are indeed in the works, but of course I won't discuss that on an open forum. It's a long process in each state. We NEVER stop working on additional states.
2) Not sure how much they're proliferating - they're all going to get longer and more expensive over the next several years as they move to the DNP.
3) More and more groups are hiring AAs. Not sure where you're getting the "few hospitals hire AAs" info. As with a lot of things, a lot depends on where you want to work. Western states are more limited, eastern states are wide open. Graduating AA students have virtually 100% job placement and have for years. Many right now have multiple job offers from which to choose.

 

[PapaDosh]

Good luck.

1) More states are indeed in the works, but of course I won't discuss that on an open forum. It's a long process in each state. We NEVER stop working on additional states.
2) Not sure how much they're proliferating - they're all going to get longer and more expensive over the next several years as they move to the DNP.
3) More and more groups are hiring AAs. Not sure where you're getting the "few hospitals hire AAs" info. As with a lot of things, a lot depends on where you want to work. Western states are more limited, eastern states are wide open. Graduating AA students have virtually 100% job placement and have for years. Many right now have multiple job offers from which to choose.

Jwk can you comment what percentage of AA's go on to medical school? Wikipedia has the rate at 10% but it looks that number is from a couple of years ago. Have you noticed anything in terms of a trend?

 

[btbam]

Jwk can you comment what percentage of AA's go on to medical school? Wikipedia has the rate at 10% but it looks that number is from a couple of years ago. Have you noticed anything in terms of a trend?

I’ve been out for 7 years and don’t know any of my peers who have gone back to med school so I think it’s much lower than 10%.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

I’ve been out for 7 years and don’t know any of my peers who have gone back to med school so I think it’s much lower than 10%.

I think people would go to med school when AAs were less well paid.

Good luck.

1) More states are indeed in the works, but of course I won't discuss that on an open forum. It's a long process in each state. We NEVER stop working on additional states.
2) Not sure how much they're proliferating - they're all going to get longer and more expensive over the next several years as they move to the DNP.
3) More and more groups are hiring AAs. Not sure where you're getting the "few hospitals hire AAs" info. As with a lot of things, a lot depends on where you want to work. Western states are more limited, eastern states are wide open. Graduating AA students have virtually 100% job placement and have for years. Many right now have multiple job offers from which to choose.

jwk, that makes me feel better about it, there is just no way to track the AA job market because there is so little information out there about AA which drives type A people crazy. I pretty much just look at that gaswork site to see what types of jobs are being offered and where.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Jwk can you comment what percentage of AA's go on to medical school? Wikipedia has the rate at 10% but it looks that number is from a couple of years ago. Have you noticed anything in terms of a trend?

AA is a great job where you can make solid $ with a 2 year masters right away, plus extra with more shifts. More than most PAs make. That’s hard to pass up for 4 years of med school afterwards.

 

[btbam]

AA is a great job where you can make solid $ with a 2 year masters right away, plus extra with more shifts. More than most PAs make. That’s hard to pass up for 4 years of med school afterwards.

I briefly thought about applying to med school after I’d been working as an AA for about a year, but an attending talked some sense into me when we figured out how much potential income I’d be losing in the interim while racking up hundreds of thousands of debt. It just didn’t make any sense financially.

 

[jwk]

I briefly thought about applying to med school after I’d been working as an AA for about a year, but an attending talked some sense into me when we figured out how much potential income I’d be losing in the interim while racking up hundreds of thousands of debt. It just didn’t make any sense financially.

I did the same thing many years ago. I was around 30. Between loss of income, new debt, and residents pay (still a fraction of what an AA makes), I figured I'd be well into my 50s to even break even.