Anesthesiology audition rotations

[AkGrown84]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Question I'm hoping maybe some 4th years or current residents can answer for me: I'll most likely be applying to AOA (and maybe some ACGME) anesthesiology programs this summer. Currently setting up my audition rotations for this summer/fall and wanted to know opinions from people who have rotated through the AOA anesthesiology programs in the last few years. I realize that there's an old (4+ years old) thread on this, but I'd love some updated info and inclusion of as many of the 13 programs as possible.

Particularly:
-If you HAVE to rotate through to get an interview (or if it's especially advantageous)
-If the specific program has student housing for those traveling for an away rotation (or what best housing options are)
-If you know of any minimum COMLEX requirements. Or if they require level 2 prior to rotation or scheduling a rotation (I'm taking it mid-May, so not much of an issue prior to rotation, but would be prior to scheduling!)
-Whether the site prefers 2 or 4 week rotations and if that would have any bearing on interview/matching
-Any other pearls of information!

Thanks in advance!

 

[abolt18]

I would... Not apply AOA. Not with the merger. I'd put all my chips in the ACGME programs. There are already very few AOA programs. If they're not already transitioning to ACGME, I'd have significant doubts in their intentions.

I know this doesn't help you much to answer those questions, but this is my real life advice. I would ONLY apply audition or interview at programs that are very actively transitioning to ACGME accreditation. There are few AOA programs already, and you need to make sure you don't get screwed by the merger. Best of luck anyway.

 

[AkGrown84]

I would... Not apply AOA. Not with the merger. I'd put all my chips in the ACGME programs. There are already very few AOA programs. If they're not already transitioning to ACGME, I'd have significant doubts in their intentions.

I know this doesn't help you much to answer those questions, but this is my real life advice. I would ONLY apply audition or interview at programs that are very actively transitioning to ACGME accreditation. There are few AOA programs already, and you need to make sure you don't get screwed by the merger. Best of luck anyway.

There's 13 standing AOA programs. One is not going to merge/isn't taking new residents (Des Peres in St. Louis), so that leaves 12. There are several who's accreditation are questionable (they've been asked for more info, longer review time, etc), but the rest have already applied and have pre-accreditation. So roughly 8-9 programs I feel fairly decent about them staying around. I'll be applying ACGME also, but didn't take USMLE, so that limits me quite a bit for anesthesia. I'll probably end up applying to all AOA programs who should be around post-merger and all ACGME programs who accept COMLEX, but I still want to be armed with the best information I can.

 

[AkGrown84]

Hahaha! Aaaaaaaaannnd I just realized that you also replied on the other anesthesia thread. Basically, I was looking for something similar to that, but not 4 years old, especially since AOA programs have been under a lot of change in the past 4 years.

 

[abolt18]

There's 13 standing AOA programs. One is not going to merge/isn't taking new residents (Des Peres in St. Louis), so that leaves 12. There are several who's accreditation are questionable (they've been asked for more info, longer review time, etc), but the rest have already applied and have pre-accreditation. So roughly 8-9 programs I feel fairly decent about them staying around. I'll be applying ACGME also, but didn't take USMLE, so that limits me quite a bit for anesthesia. I'll probably end up applying to all AOA programs who should be around post-merger and all ACGME programs who accept COMLEX, but I still want to be armed with the best information I can.

Of note, I have several friends who applied ACGME anesthesia with only COMLEX scores. They did have to apply more broadly but got >10 interviews each.

I think if you are skeptical and really do your due diligence, you may feel comfortable with several AOA programs and their chances at meeting ACGME requirements. Just know that it's totally possible to be misled and have a program pull the rug out from under you. Pre-accreditation means virtually nothing. It means they filed the paperwork correctly. It doesn't tell you anything about their ability to receive initial accreditation.

 

[abolt18]

Do you know what their level 1s were?? I'm in a similar boat as the OP and at a loss for what to do.

Thank you!!!

500's I believe.

 

[Dr. Death]

Question I'm hoping maybe some 4th years or current residents can answer for me: I'll most likely be applying to AOA (and maybe some ACGME) anesthesiology programs this summer. Currently setting up my audition rotations for this summer/fall and wanted to know opinions from people who have rotated through the AOA anesthesiology programs in the last few years. I realize that there's an old (4+ years old) thread on this, but I'd love some updated info and inclusion of as many of the 13 programs as possible.

Particularly:
-If you HAVE to rotate through to get an interview (or if it's especially advantageous)
-If the specific program has student housing for those traveling for an away rotation (or what best housing options are)
-If you know of any minimum COMLEX requirements. Or if they require level 2 prior to rotation or scheduling a rotation (I'm taking it mid-May, so not much of an issue prior to rotation, but would be prior to scheduling!)
-Whether the site prefers 2 or 4 week rotations and if that would have any bearing on interview/matching
-Any other pearls of information!

Thanks in advance!

Not a 4th year but I have a friend who is a gas resident at OSUMC. Residents and attendings each have an equal vote on rank list. According to him the rotation is king, basically if you don't rotate you don't interview and 4 week rotations are preferred. He told me he looks for an above average COMLEX and a top 30% class rank and after that it is about how well you do on your rotation and how well you fit with the other personalities.

Not sure about level 2 but they do not provide housing (or at least they didn't when he applied a couple years ago)

 

[KCBlue]

According to him the rotation is king, basically if you don't rotate you don't interview...

This is the exact opposite of what I've heard from every anesthesia resident & attending I've asked about audition rotations at ACGME programs. Not suggesting your friend is lying or anything, but his program definitely doesn't seem to be the norm in that regard.

 

[Dr. Death]

This is the exact opposite of what I've heard from every anesthesia resident & attending I've asked about audition rotations at ACGME programs. Not suggesting your friend is lying or anything, but his program definitely doesn't seem to be the norm in that regard.

Sorry I should have specified he was just talking about his program in particular. Also his program is AOA so ACGME programs are understandably a different animal altogether

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

There's 13 standing AOA programs. One is not going to merge/isn't taking new residents (Des Peres in St. Louis), so that leaves 12. There are several who's accreditation are questionable (they've been asked for more info, longer review time, etc), but the rest have already applied and have pre-accreditation. So roughly 8-9 programs I feel fairly decent about them staying around. I'll be applying ACGME also, but didn't take USMLE, so that limits me quite a bit for anesthesia. I'll probably end up applying to all AOA programs who should be around post-merger and all ACGME programs who accept COMLEX, but I still want to be armed with the best information I can.

Seems like Des Peres has borderline lost half of their residency programs.

 

[abolt18]

Seems like Des Peres has borderline lost half of their residency programs.

All of them.

 

[D4C]

This is the exact opposite of what I've heard from every anesthesia resident & attending I've asked about audition rotations at ACGME programs. Not suggesting your friend is lying or anything, but his program definitely doesn't seem to be the norm in that regard.

This only applies to AOA, not ACGME. And like abolt said, you are best off applying ACGME only anyways.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

All of them.

I thought they were keeping their IM residency?

 

[abolt18]

I thought they were keeping their IM residency?

This is the last year they'll match residents. At this point they're not even applying for ACGME accreditation. They'll ride out the AOA until 2020, let all their residents graduate, and be done.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This is the last year they'll match residents. At this point they're not even applying for ACGME accreditation. They'll ride out the AOA until 2020, let all their residents graduate, and be done.

That's rather unfortunate. But the hospital seems to have been struggling for some time.

 

[el mero mero]

AOA - Doctors
1) If you HAVE to rotate through to get an interview (or if it's especially advantageous) - don't have to rotate to but it helps

2) If the specific program has student housing for those traveling for an away rotation (or what best housing options are) - hospital doesn't provide housing but gives a list of low cost options (staying with residents of other programs of the hospital for a few hundred bucks a week)

3) If you know of any minimum COMLEX requirements. Or if they require level 2 prior to rotation or scheduling a rotation (I'm taking it mid-May, so not much of an issue prior to rotation, but would be prior to scheduling!) - minimum 450. likely need above a 500 to be competitve, but we honestly do look at the entire application and do take into account an audition

4) -Whether the site prefers 2 or 4 week rotations and if that would have any bearing on interview/matching: only two week rotations

5) Any other pearls of information! - we don't care about technical skills. you can learn those during residency. what we care about is how you work with others and if you teachable. to do well, be engaged and help out some in the OR. Read for didactics and answer questions. that's all it takes to have a successful audition

update: doctors anesthesia is acgme accredited

 

[67552931811]

Wanted to bump this since i see that 11/13 aoa programs have been initially accredited. After reading how atrocious they are on this site I was pleasantly surprised that such a % have made the cut (anyone know what it takes to go from "initial" accreditation to "full", or whatever the hell the term is?). I figured best case scenario was gonna be 6/7 out of the 13. Glad to be wrong 🙂.

 

[Mabus3]

I would strongly suggest still focusing efforts on to applying to already established ACGME programs. I interviewed at one program which was previously AOA and is now ACGME accredited and was very underwhelmed at their stats compared to the ACGME programs I had been to. I know that the one AOA program doesn't represent all of them but I would still advise caution. I would also strongly encourage people to take the USMLE (I took both) and felt like I had a leg up when it came to receiving interview invites as compared to those I knew who had only taken COMLEX.