Annoying First Year EC Shenanigans

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It's not lame. It's true. How the **** is it possible that one of the highest paid specialties is the one least involved in a hospital? Or patients care?
Give me a break. I'd love to see how demanding derm would be if salary was cut in half and they were required to work normal doctor hours.

Probably because in this society, owners make the cash and if you're being paid a salary by someone else, they're profiting off your hard work. Why shouldn't all doctors work derm hours and have derm salaries? Why should derm salary be cut and have hours increased?
 
It's not lame. It's true. How the **** is it possible that one of the highest paid specialties is the one least involved in a hospital? Or patients care?
Give me a break. I'd love to see how demanding derm would be if salary was cut in half and they were required to work normal doctor hours.


The fact that you (and many people) equate "normal doctor hours" with [insert number significantly higher than 40 per week] is silly. Or that you think "involvement in the hospital" is relevant at all. Or that dermatologists aren't involved in patients' care.

But, I realize you're trolling.
 
I don't get why people hate on derm. If it's so good then why not get the grades and the board scores to do it? If you wanted to do something else, then you wanted to do something else. Not to mention just because the derm landscape is good right now, doesn't mean it will be good in 20 years. Look at Ortho
 
Probably because in this society, owners make the cash and if you're being paid a salary by someone else, they're profiting off your hard work. Why shouldn't all doctors work derm hours and have derm salaries? Why should derm salary be cut and have hours increased?

I agree. I'm not saying my idea was the best but a question about motives.
The fact that you (and many people) equate "normal doctor hours" with [insert number significantly higher than 40 per week] is silly. Or that you think "involvement in the hospital" is relevant at all. Or that dermatologists aren't involved in patients' care.

But, I realize you're trolling.

I'm not trolling.
Also... How in the hell am I wrong with normal doctor hours being 50-60? Or silly with any of my comments? Please elaborate. Or tell me how considerable and valuable of a contribution to patient needs derm offers? Look, if you like Derm, good for you. Congrats. But don't act like you don't see the obvious: people go into derm for the lifestyle and compensation. It would be hilarious if surgeons tried doing 9-5 hours. One case per day. The end.
 
I don't get why people hate on derm. If it's so good then why not get the grades and the board scores to do it? If you wanted to do something else, then you wanted to do something else. Not to mention just because the derm landscape is good right now, doesn't mean it will be good in 20 years. Look at Ortho
I don't hate derm. I find it boring. If you like it, great. But I'm wondering how many people say they love derm or have an active interest in it while passing a lie detector test. In the end: I'm mocking not the specialty, but the allocation of bright people into these specialties instead of the ones our system is saying we need more of.
 
I agree. I'm not saying my idea was the best but a question about motives.


I'm not trolling.
Also... How in the hell am I wrong with normal doctor hours being 50-60? Or silly with any of my comments? Please elaborate. Or tell me how considerable and valuable of a contribution to patient needs derm offers? Look, if you like Derm, good for you. Congrats. But don't act like you don't see the obvious: people go into derm for the lifestyle and compensation. It would be hilarious if surgeons tried doing 9-5 hours. One case per day. The end.
It would be hilarious if surgeons were normal people who didn't live to piss away the only life they'll ever get.
 
I


I'm not trolling.
Also... How in the hell am I wrong with normal doctor hours being 50-60? Or silly with any of my comments? Please elaborate. Or tell me how considerable and valuable of a contribution to patient needs derm offers?

I didn't say you're wrong. I said you're contributing to what's wrong with medicine (to some degree): the feeling that you somehow have to work more hours than most, or that the more hours you work, the more badass and amazing you are. Obviously "normal" doctor hours have become 50-60 hours/week. Because people like you think working less is somehow shameful to the profession.

And I'll again assume you're kidding/trolling with the part about contribution to patient needs. Dermatologic complaints are one of (if not, THE) most common complaints in a primary care office. People leave my office grateful every day, because I'm actually able to help them fix something they care greatly about. It's not my fault they don't give two sh*ts about their hypertension.

I'm sorry you feel you're too important to acknowledge other specialties' relevance.

If I'm not mistaken, it was Sean Connery who famously stated: "Losers always whine about other specialties. Winners go home and f*ck the surgeon's wife."
 
I don't hate derm. I find it boring. If you like it, great. But I'm wondering how many people say they love derm or have an active interest in it while passing a lie detector test. In the end: I'm mocking not the specialty, but the allocation of bright people into these specialties instead of the ones our system is saying we need more of.

I agree you don't hate it, you just don't like it and thus don't pursue it as your profession. I was more referring to other people that are like " ZOMG DERMIES HAVE IT SO GOOD WE SHOULD TAR AND FEATHER THEM AND THEIR MICROSCOPES SO SCREW DERM"
 
It would be hilarious if surgeons were normal people who didn't live to piss away the only life they'll ever get.
You'd probably find it less hilarious when [emergent need for surgical procedure at inconvenient time] happens. Not everyone is made as tragically miserable as you are by medicine.
 
You'd probably find it less hilarious when [emergent need for surgical procedure at inconvenient time] happens. Not everyone is made as tragically miserable as you are by medicine.
World needs ditch diggers and scalpel jockeys, I suppose.
 
Hey everyone, long time lurker, decided to finally make an account. So I am a first year at a US allopathic school. I know that ECs arent really that important but I have found a club that I think I would really enjoy doing and be involved in and decided that this is something I would like to run for an officer position for. I found out that another kid, who is already an officer of 5 other clubs is also running. Its annoying!

In your experience, do these same people hog EC positions in foolish hopes that it will get them into derm?
This really takes the cake for most pointless post of the year. Who cares? Do you really think anyone gives a damn about whether you were an officer in some silly club when it comes time to apply for residency? It's a minor footnote below like 19 other things, hairs usually don't get split that far.
 
It would be hilarious if surgeons were normal people who didn't live to piss away the only life they'll ever get.
I'd hardly call being a surgeon pissing your life away. It's a job of great importance and great responsibility- you can't go into it if you aren't willing to make some sacrifices in your personal life, because surgery takes a great deal of time to both master and maintain proficiency, and we can only train a finite number of surgeons per year. If I'm picking a surgeon for myself or my family, I don't want the guy who works 9-5 and golfs 12 weeks a year, I want the guy who's clocking procedures 60 hours a week.
 
Derm seems like the lamest specialty, the only reason people do it is because of lifestyle.
It would be hilarious if surgeons were normal people who didn't live to piss away the only life they'll ever get.

Any more MS1's want to chime in with their stereotypes of fields they've never experienced? 🙄
 
It would be hilarious if surgeons were normal people who didn't live to piss away the only life they'll ever get.

Stop opining about things you have no experience with. Remember when we all told you that medicine sucks and medical school is hard? Your reply: can't be as hard as manual labor.

Fast forward several months: boo hoo med school is so hard I'm drowning in information I want to go back. Pathetic
 
Stop opining about things you have no experience with. Remember when we all told you that medicine sucks and medical school is hard? Your reply: can't be as hard as manual labor.

Fast forward several months: boo hoo med school is so hard I'm drowning in information I want to go back. Pathetic

Fast forward 3 years: submitting ERAS for surgery 😛
 
Stop opining about things you have no experience with. Remember when we all told you that medicine sucks and medical school is hard? Your reply: can't be as hard as manual labor.

Fast forward several months: boo hoo med school is so hard I'm drowning in information I want to go back. Pathetic
Med school isn't hard, it's just annoying, miserable, and inane. Perpetually cramming 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound bag -- that's all it is.
 
Med school isn't hard, it's just annoying, miserable, and inane. Perpetually cramming 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound bag -- that's all it is.

Which is what people told you, in less explicit terms. It's not the material that's difficult, it's the pace. That's why people use the fire hydrant analogy. Yet you continued to say that it can't be any worse than your job doing manual labor.

You'll get used to the pace, you've only just started. Consider taking the advice of people ahead of you, we've all been through the same exact thing.
 
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I didn't say you're wrong. I said you're contributing to what's wrong with medicine (to some degree): the feeling that you somehow have to work more hours than most, or that the more hours you work, the more badass and amazing you are. Obviously "normal" doctor hours have become 50-60 hours/week. Because people like you think working less is somehow shameful to the profession.

And I'll again assume you're kidding/trolling with the part about contribution to patient needs. Dermatologic complaints are one of (if not, THE) most common complaints in a primary care office. People leave my office grateful every day, because I'm actually able to help them fix something they care greatly about. It's not my fault they don't give two sh*ts about their hypertension.

I'm sorry you feel you're too important to acknowledge other specialties' relevance.

If I'm not mistaken, it was Sean Connery who famously stated: "Losers always whine about other specialties. Winners go home and f*ck the surgeon's wife."
And did I say I could do their job? No. Did I say derm complaints don't exist? No.
Am I whining about their specialty like "Boo hoo I want their lives!! "? No.
I'm not saying quantity of hours = quality.
Good for you taking care of their needs. I've obviously hit a nerve because I've never seen someone so defensive when I'm congratulating you.
 
I agree you don't hate it, you just don't like it and thus don't pursue it as your profession. I was more referring to other people that are like " ZOMG DERMIES HAVE IT SO GOOD WE SHOULD TAR AND FEATHER THEM AND THEIR MICROSCOPES SO SCREW DERM"
Yup. Don't hate the player. Hate the game. I don't hate either since it doesn't impact my decision to do surgery 😛
 
Which is what people told you, in less explicit terms. It's not the material that's difficult, it's the pace. That's why people use the fire hydrant analogy. Yet you continued to say that it can't be any worse than your job doing manual labor.

You'll get used to the pace, you've only just started. Consider taking the advice of people ahead of you, we've all been through the same exact thing.

It's just a different hard. I can mindlessly do physical labor even though it's obviously really hard physically. Or I can sit in a chair all day and look at notes, which I can't mindlessly do and have to actively focus and learn or I retain nothing. Just different. I don't get why so many people compare it to past jobs. It's like saying " well I learned to play football so surely I can figure out how to do wood-working." It's just not possible to compare because the difficulties in each are in different dimensions.
 
Or tell me how considerable and valuable of a contribution to patient needs derm offers?

Patients with terrible pemphigus, patients with epidermolysis bullosa, patients with horrible psoriasis, patients with localized melanomas, etc, etc, etc. It's not all botox and little rashes. Derm has a role in the big medical picture for sick people.

I liken it to plastic surgery. There are surgeons who only do cosmetic stuff, and there are ones that do post-trauma reconstruction. Just because there are a bunch of plastics people who spend all day doing thigh/glute implants as a cash business, doesn't mean that plastic surgery as a field has no value.
 
I agree. I'm not saying my idea was the best but a question about motives.


I'm not trolling.
Also... How in the hell am I wrong with normal doctor hours being 50-60? Or silly with any of my comments? Please elaborate. Or tell me how considerable and valuable of a contribution to patient needs derm offers? Look, if you like Derm, good for you. Congrats. But don't act like you don't see the obvious: people go into derm for the lifestyle and compensation. It would be hilarious if surgeons tried doing 9-5 hours. One case per day. The end.
So you're mad bc 9-5 hours would only let you do 1 case a day, while Derm sees patient after patient after patient bc it's an inherently outpatient specialty?
Who decides what is "normal doctor hours"? You?
 
I don't hate derm. I find it boring. If you like it, great. But I'm wondering how many people say they love derm or have an active interest in it while passing a lie detector test. In the end: I'm mocking not the specialty, but the allocation of bright people into these specialties instead of the ones our system is saying we need more of.
Wait, so you're pissed off that bright people are heading into specialties that you feel our system does not need and should go into specialties that YOU believe the system needs. (And I'm sure you believe that our system needs more surgeons). Funny, bc our system needs actually more general surgeons (not surgical subspecialists) but as a whole, your surgery brethern are subspecializing and not doing general surgery. Why is that?

You realize the number of spots is already set at the beginning of match season right? The only difference is WHO is filling those spots.

By "into these specialties" I'm assuming you aren't just referring to Derm either but Anesthesia, Radiology, PM&R, Rad Onc, etc.
 
I don't get why people hate on derm. If it's so good then why not get the grades and the board scores to do it? If you wanted to do something else, then you wanted to do something else. Not to mention just because the derm landscape is good right now, doesn't mean it will be good in 20 years. Look at Ortho

What do you mean?
 
What do you mean?

Now the whole landscape is different and it's super competitive, meanwhile the current attendings in it were pretty crappy candidates for the most part. This is the opposite progression of what I'm saying derm is capable of, but it's not like only changes for the good happen. Just was indicating that ortho had a huge change, it's quite possible derm or any other service will as well.
 
Wait, so you're pissed off that bright people are heading into specialties that you feel our system does not need and should go into specialties that YOU believe the system needs. (And I'm sure you believe that our system needs more surgeons). Funny, bc our system needs actually more general surgeons (not surgical subspecialists) but as a whole, your surgery brethern are subspecializing and not doing general surgery. Why is that?

You realize the number of spots is already set at the beginning of match season right? The only difference is WHO is filling those spots.

By "into these specialties" I'm assuming you aren't just referring to Derm either but Anesthesia, Radiology, PM&R, Rad Onc, etc.

The perks of each service are going to be relative to it's demand. Derms wouldn't be getting what they get, compensation per hour wise if people didn't need them. Just like if there was actually a PCP shortage, that PCPs would be getting reimbursed more than some specialties. Supply and demand baby
 
The perks of each service are going to be relative to it's demand. Derms wouldn't be getting what they get, compensation per hour wise if people didn't need them. Just like if there was actually a PCP shortage, that PCPs would be getting reimbursed more than some specialties. Supply and demand baby
Not exactly. The reimbursement scheme is set for medical services beforehand. The way Kaustikos and others are make it seem is that a bunch of nefarious dermatologists came together so that Dermatology as a whole benefits. Not even close to being true. Also residency positions are funded by the govt. The govt. has decided that it doesn't need too many dermatologists, but need more General IM docs, Peds docs, etc.

PCPs shouldn't be getting reimbursed more than specialists bc they don't do anything that MERITS being reimbursed more. Specialists also take on higher risk with procedures that entail higher malpractice risk, unlike PCPs who talk to their patients which carries no inherent malpractice risk.
 
Now the whole landscape is different and it's super competitive, meanwhile the current attendings in it were pretty crappy candidates for the most part. This is the opposite progression of what I'm saying derm is capable of, but it's not like only changes for the good happen. Just was indicating that ortho had a huge change, it's quite possible derm or any other service will as well.
Except millenial medical students don't care as much for paycheck when it comes to driving specialty choice. They aren't the type to put their nose to the grindstone for decades at a time. They want work-life balance, at a time when Obamacare will be mandating that they see even more patients (for less reimbursement).
 
So you're mad bc 9-5 hours would only let you do 1 case a day, while Derm sees patient after patient after patient bc it's an inherently outpatient specialty?
Who decides what is "normal doctor hours"? You?
I'm not mad. Where did I say I was? Oh, right, never. Give me a break. You're twisting everything I say because I'm not a derm nutswinger who's calling out certain people who apply for it. It's the same people who apply to anesthesia for the lifestyle. I'm not saying lifestyle isn't important but if that's your number one priority, you've got another thing coming. And, again, I'm not saying everyone is like that. But don't sit here and tell me everyone applying is doing it because they give two ****s about derm.
So, once again, stop putting words in my mouth.

And I never even once said surgery needs 9-5. Again... Wtf
Wait, so you're pissed off that bright people are heading into specialties that you feel our system does not need and should go into specialties that YOU believe the system needs. (And I'm sure you believe that our system needs more surgeons). Funny, bc our system needs actually more general surgeons (not surgical subspecialists) but as a whole, your surgery brethern are subspecializing and not doing general surgery. Why is that?

You realize the number of spots is already set at the beginning of match season right? The only difference is WHO is filling those spots.

By "into these specialties" I'm assuming you aren't just referring to Derm either but Anesthesia, Radiology, PM&R, Rad Onc, etc.
No. I'm saying congrats to derm for creating a physician lifestyle and compensation that's sane. Along with rads, anesthesia, etc. They've managed to create the opportunity and the smartest are taking advantage of it. Do I fault them? No. But the joke is there. It answers the question of why people aren't going into primary care or "specialties in demand".

But my original post basically calls them out on it. I applaud the people going into derm for derm. But I wouldn't hesitate putting money on how significant the percent of people going into it are actually not doing it for that. Don't get defensive about it. I'm not saying "you" specifically. I'm saying "those guys". Which goes back to my point that I'm not mad just that I call bull**** when people say that the lifestyle and compensation wasn't their intention. Because it is.

And I'm not advocating people do any specialty. Do what you want. Whatever makes you happy. And if it's just a good lifestyle with fast cars and trophy wives.. Then derm is where it's at.
 
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