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Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by Sparda29, Feb 27, 2012.
There are some professors and administration at my school who always finish an e-mail with "..."
See what happens when ACPE accredits every program that comes along?
I use those...
...mostly because I type stream of consciousness style what I'm thinking...and that's not always in proper grammar...
Annoying things my old school faculty does? My god. I could type for hours.
1) Giving lectures that required attendance, yet consisted of basically just reading powerpoints.
2) Above, but in the notes, they'd leave random spaces that you are to fill in. There's a reason I don't go to your lecture. There is nothing in there I can't just read and get the gist of. I gain nothing from you reading it to me. Is making sure that you have an audience for you listening to the sound of your own voice really that important?
3) One of the basic sciences professors had this really expensive reverse osmosis water purifier in her lab and the only thing she used it for was making coffee. Nice to see my tuition money going to worthy causes.
4) Someone there makes these poor students call me asking for money all the damn time even though I've told them to stop effing calling me. They also address me as "Dr." and my wife as "Miss." Which pisses the misses the hell off. The only people that call me "Dr" are people at the school that want money. If anyone calls and uses the title, I know they are calling from WVU. This is actually a good thing because I can immediately interrupt them and tell them to stop calling me. Again. For the 8th time.
5) A few of them constantly trash every area of practice in pharmacy that isn't clinical pharmacy.
6) The powers that be produce unneeded amounts of stress on students. Clinical rotations are presented in incredibly intimidating manner. The people at student health in the psych department actually commented to myself and other pharmacy students that they are worried about many pharmacy students due to how they treat them. If you have any sort of anxiety disorder...neurological disorder...etc...and accumulated stress makes you shut down one day because of it, they write it up as a behavioral issue...send you off to get evaluated by a psychiatrist, then send you a letter threatening to kick you out of school if it happens again. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they are sued by a student some day for violations of the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Hell...I could go on and on...
I do still like some of the professors. Many weren't bad. I'm just happy as hell I don't have to deal with that sort of subservient atmosphere anymore. You basically pay them to torture you and live in their little academic fiefdom. It becomes even more retrospectively idiotic once you get into the real world and compare it to actual, living workplaces.
There was one in my school who constantly and unnecessarily reminded every person that her husband was a surgeon.
I have one now who reads directly off the slides, except when he says "um" every other word.
I, too, could write for hours. Here are a few.
Make us sit in class talking to us for two hours about professionalism, and how to communicate professionally with all types of people. Then, during the very next class, the Associate Dean (just promoted and a real power trip type person) comes in and talks to us all like we were six, using the most insulting/bullying tone to make certain we know that we are the human equivalent of scum. Uhhhh, is this supposed to be some academic performance of the definition of irony for our benefit?
Have a two credit class that is total busy work, that has 42 (yes you read that right 42) deadlines to meet or, "YOUR FINAL GRADE WILL BE REDUCED BY ONE FULL LETTER GRADE" where the instructor cannot seem to get your assignments graded (other than one or two) until the last freaking week of class.
Scantron tests that take three weeks to grade and post. Really?
Professors that will not accept any excuse for nearly any reason, shy of you bleeding out personally in front of them, but then send out emails giving excuses of their own about why lecture slides aren't posted in time to print them and use them in class.
Unfort, I could go on and on.
Regarding WVU's earlier #4:
"4) Someone there makes these poor students call me asking for money all the damn time even though I've told them to stop effing calling me. They also address me as "Dr." and my wife as "Miss." Which pisses the misses the hell off. The only people that call me "Dr" are people at the school that want money. If anyone calls and uses the title, I know they are calling from WVU. This is actually a good thing because I can immediately interrupt them and tell them to stop calling me. Again. For the 8th time."
One of my favorite methods of coping when I am in class and want to scream is thinking of the big fat $0 these people are going to get from me in regards to future alumni money. Over my dead body. I have already come up with a number of ways to answer no to whomever calls. My current favorite is: "I am sorry, I don't think it is ethical to donate to terrorist organizations."
Our faculty would leave blanks in the notes to fill in, too. I never understood how that could help us better help patients. My theory was, if you have to trick me in to coming to class by giving me incomplete materials, then your lecture really doesn't matter. The worst part is they omitted important information like max doses, serious side effects, and other things you'd really need to know. Way to encourage proper patient care.
We also had one professor who would literally take 30 minutes to seat every person in the lecture hall for tests. Then she would explain each question in depth. The she would let us take the test. I guess she didn't realize we all know how to read instructions.
Professors who wasted time with the in classroom technology were the worst. Nothing like watching this guy fumble over the clicker system 2 times a week for 10 weeks. He never seemed to get it to work or realize he sucked at using it.
I'd says joke is on her. RO water actually makes ****ty coffee as it doesn't have enough dissolved solutes to extract properly.
the whole pharmacy school experience sucked. I love learning but hate school.
you are just a little guy being tossed around like a ping pong ball for 4 years. Not to mention indentured servitude that is retail APPEs.
I think the educational experience depends on the student, too. I've had a completely different experience. While I admit that there are some things professors do that I find somewhat annoying at times, I honestly feel like many of them actually care about our education and success. Education isn't a One way street. Students have to put forth some effort too. I find that my professors are pretty receptive to student feedback. It's all about communication....
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Actually I agree with you.
Glad that school isnt just a means to an end for you - It sure was for me, plus I dont like being told what to do all the time.
It does of course, but don't you think it is alarming that professional students overall have such high rates of depression and axiety ? I don't have stasts to back me up on hand, but it seems half of our class was popping either anxiolytics or SSRIs last yeat, literally everyone I talked to was either on SSRI or some rescue benzo. I been thinking about doing my graduation project on this so I been reading a lot on the suicide ideation amongst health professional students, those few stories medical students killing themselves and you do have to acknowledge this entire phenomenon is not just students "not coming forth on the two way street of education". There are major distinct problems with the medical education in this country and you can't just deny that and scapegoat it on students not being more proactive about their education.
Bottom line, sure few of us vent here and there but for the most the whole experience of professional school sucks. Also, I look at some of the people at our class and even though they seem relatively ok and happy, a lot either went through relationship problems in the process, gained 50 lbs over the course of the last few years or had majo personal break downs. So even if they seem in denial about their experience in school, just being around them over the course of last few years, seems like they aren't doing that great from my perspective of the outsider either. This entire experience has been very hard on most of us.
The only time I felt annoyed or like starting fires was when the professor who gave us a lecture on "professionalism" during our second year, was CONSISTENTLY late to her own lectures by 10-15 minutes, used a few politically incorrect/steroptype profiling in her case examples and her overall demeanor was beyond unprofessional. Additionally, she had the audacity to include sdn post examples in the lecture, how student doctor network posts stay with you for life , thanks but I'll take my professionalism lectures from someone who actually is a professional.
While those situations are indeed alarming, is that the fault of the professors or the institution/education standards? I agree that medical/pharmacy education needs improvements but professors are limited in their capacity to make changes. I think there are professors who clearly do not want to teach- if you read the flexner report, it gives you a good idea of the outcomes (both positive and negative) of calling for a "revamp" of medical education. The important thing is student feedback because there are some things that professors can control like their lecture delivery method, incorporating active learning, and providing "real life" examples to apply our knowledge in a practical way. The number of professors are not as enthusiastic is probably higher at some more established research institutions where professors are strongly encouraged to pursue scholarship. Some places still hold on to that "publish or perish" mentality although recent years, at least at my school, has seen a shift toward improving the quality of education that is more student focused. This is probably one of the advantages of going to a private school- less research, more teaching focused.
I don't disagree that the stress level and pressure is not good for the health of students. But, at the same time, we knew what we were getting into. I have cried some days but I just keep telling myself to make it through one day at a time. I seek support from my professors and mentors and I have been quite surprised at how willing they are to work with students in regards to deadlines and expectations. Some went through it too so they have an intimate knowledge of how much students may struggle.
Those aren't isolated situations - with a single student here and there, it's a mass phenomenon, L. At least at my university it is and I won't say more ,but I know it is at other schools too - just look up some papers on this, I posted one on my FB about depression written by Harvard med student not too long ago. I written an article about this to a newspaper myself too.
You also have to realize you are a year behind me in school and some of the things just based on your experience I experienced last year, you are only starting to experience based on your Fb posts. So maybe you aren't as burned out, bitter and jaded as I am ?
Also maybe we have different standards or expectations when it comes to self care and how we want to be treated ? I don't think it should be like this, I shouldn't be coming home crying thinking I can't go on anymore and trying to find inner strength somewhere in there. Especially not if I am paying them 30 something k a year to teach me.
I feel professors have a lot of control over this actually - some of the things we are being put through are ridiculous and absolutely do nothing for my learning are more for the checkmark than for anything actually beneficial to the student. I come from a famly of very educated individuals and professors so I definitely know how things could be different done differently if people actually put their behinds to work.
This is true. I hear our third year is just as bad as second year. Judging from the demeanor of some third years, the stress will only continue. You are right, though; students shouldn't be going home and crying everyday. Are there counseling services available through your COP? Our school provides access to some resources to help students cope.
Maybe the ability of professors to influence curricula changes varies with school. At our school, both faculty and students from each year are a part of the curriculum committee. It helps to have student input I'm sure. But, I have seen direct changes to classes based on student feedback.
And yes, people cope differently. I haven't been treated poorly or been disrespected by faculty yet (I have been by other students, unfortunately). I have contemplated jumping off a bridge once or twice when things got really bad but I know that would be stupid. We've all worked hard to get here and I know it's trite to tell you to hang in there but I know you've got the strength. You're almost there!!! If you do need to vent/cry, you have my number we can commiserate!
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When somebody asks a question, and the answer is "don't worry, that won't be on the test." Okay, so when I'm not in school and have a patient with this situation.......?
I don't know of anybody having depression/anxiety issues out of our program. Well, one guy does, but it predates pharmacy school. Sure some people get stressed out or on edge, but maybe it's because we don't have to do some research thesis like cheb.
If it's truly anywhere close to 50%, that is a major problem that needs to be addressed.
Yeah, I don't know of any widespread SSRI use at my school. Adderall maybe, not SSRI...
Lack of kowledge doesn't equate its nonexistence. I am on SSRIs myself so obviously I talked to people about this and was suprised to find how how many other people were. Obviously your classmates, aren't going to annouce to the world or make it know to you they are on SSRIs, this is the kind of issue that unless you have first hand experiece yourself you'll know little about and denying is just silly to put it kindly, if this wasn't an issue, would be you be seeing this many "depressed in pharmacy school" threads and posts on this forum, surely you can't be oblivious to that ?
Like I said our school is kind of a special case and I specifically said I don't have statistics - who would even have statistics like that ? these are private individual medical records that no school would have access too, but it's so much of an issue that I even have written an article to the school newspaper about this.
The talk of self-harm in this thread is concerning, to say the least. Also, please play nice with each other. Thanks.
I brought up the talk of self harm to acknowledge one of the issues that health professionals students experience as a result of a burn out, depression during school and academic pressures placed upon them. If I recall correctly, SDN even had an article on this and one of radio rounds even on this matter ? I don't think with all due respect just acknowledging the issue that exists in our community is problematic on its own, I think blindly ignoring something like that would be more concerning. But if using the word alone is a veto, I'll refrain from using it in the future period.
I can delete my posts too if you feel they don't pertain well to the nature of the thread or do not contribute anything productive
I just hope that you, or anyone else, who is having those types of thoughts gets the assistance they need.
I gained 15 pounds in pharmacy school!!!!!! I hate school! Can't wait till I am done so I'll have time to go to the gym hardcore!
Third year pharmacy school is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH harder than second year. Being a third year student right now I can finally answer people's question on which year is harder 2nd or 3rd. It's by far 3rd year! I pretty much made straight A(s) P1 and P2 year....P3 year? hell no!
You don't need to go to they gym to lose weight!
When will people learn this simple fact. Yes hitting the gym does help but nutrition is 80% - 90% of losing weight. In addition to the nutrition you should focus on reducing your stress level (ie keep cortisol down) but stress just goes hand in hand with school.
Focus on nutrition by keeping your carbs low, which will keep your insulin low. With low insulin your body will stop storing everything you eat. Don't worry about calories because calorie counting only works on extreme levels, not when you are 15 pounds over weight. When I say lower carbs I'm not just talking about table sugar in your coffee, this means bread/muffins/flour/pasta. Bread and table sugar may taste different to your mouth but it's all the same to your stomach. Eliminate or lower your carbs and replace them with lean proteins and healthy fats (don't be afraid of fat). If you are vegan or vegetarian then I guess none of this helps you. Good luck.
Fellow primal/paleo eater?
Thanks! I am actually 2 pounds over my IBW right now...when I started pharmacy school I was 13 pounds below my IBW. So I am "average" weight right now. My BMI was at 17.5 but now it's close to 20! I prefer being skinny. I do not like being "average" haha...
I eat mostly slim fast bars, energy bars, rice, pasta, vegetables, fruits, seafood, turkey and chicken. I eat fairly healthy for the most part....I need to add the gym in my routine but school is taking up way too much time.
First and second year wasn't too bad....Third year is kicking my ass!!!
Infectious disease ain't easy folks!
This overall thread really surprise me. I didn't read the entire thread, but students crying? wanting to commit sucide? taking meds? etc.
I know pharmacy school takes up a lot of your time. It sucks b/c we all rather be laying out on the beach right now instead of studying. I know I do. It sucks and pharmacy school is FULL OF BUSY WORK. Instead of pharmacy school it should be call BUSY WORK school. haha...
It's tiring, full of busy work, and there are many other better things I rather be doing. I can see that but sucide? crying? etc.
I really do not think it is that bad! Boring and tiring yes but nothing to get depress or cry over.
It's becoming more and more common now. I've liked the ideas for a while, incorporated some of it, but never really did it 100%. Produce and meat is expensive, and I can get a box of pasta for 99 cents that will last 2-3 meals. I decided to cut my carbs and do a ketosis diet to lower my bodyfat, but I'll probably switch over to paleo when I'm done. I miss fruits more than bread/rice. Despite how healthy they are, the sugar content would blast me out of ketosis, so I'm going to hold off for a bit longer. Only thing I'm not sure about with paleo is giving up dairy. It's bad enough cutting out the milk for this diet, but I couldn't say goodbye to cheeses.
I get what you mean. We're in the same boat, p3 doing infectious disease, and I don't think there has been anything in the curriculum to make me very upset. I studied so much for an exam on anticoag and ACS that my brain hurt, but no emotional breakdowns. I definitely feel like I want to just get out onto rotation rather than do all of these other little things they throw into the curriculum like management and immunizations.
Primal all the way baby
Everything you are doing sounds great (except the rice/pasta lol), but then again you are not even fat to begin with. You made it sound like you were having trouble fitting into your clothes. I know you are probably eating slim fast bars/energy bars for the convenience factor. In addition to my previous post, I would like to add that people should just eat real food try and avoid preservatives that come with packaged food whenever you can.
I havent been doing it for too long either and I agree going 100% on it is not that easy. I cut out dairy for the past month (I'm not a big fan of cheese to begin with so it wasn't too difficult), fruit is still something that creeps in a little more than I'd like.
Our school posts grades on campus because it's against policy to put them up online or something. Seems like they always get posted on Friday afternoons when no one is even at school. It's kind of annoying waiting another 2-3 days to see what we got on a test.
It's amazing how sure paleo dieters are about what EVERYONE should be doing. I've got news for you - you can lose weight on any diet, including nothing but Twinkies. There was some ranking I saw recently about diets and Paleo was ranked at the very bottom. The best diet they ranked was the DASH diet.
In addition, I'm going to point out that paleo dieters tend to eat crap that wasn't available during the stone age.
"fruit is still something that creeps in a little more than I'd like."
Because ancient humans didn't value fruit as an important food source, right?
I had a couple of profs who would ignore anybody who asked a question in lecture, as if every question a student asked was a total waste of their time. Um, isn't answering our questions their job??
Yeah, I eat energy bars and slim fast bars in the morning because I wake up right before class starts so I do NOT have time to make any breakfast! hahaha. I value my sleep more than food! So I never have time to fix breakfast, so I just eat a slim fast bar during class as my breakfast.
Have you read Skinny Bitch or Skinny Bastard? Those books are saying that we should all eat organic all natural foods. The book list a bunch of good products to eat and a bunch of preservatives that you should avoid. It's a pretty good read! They are against people eating any form of meat though! The book goes into deal why too.
It will be hard for me to give up my eggs, snow crab legs, fish, chicken and seafood! That's why I can't be a vegan! but the book gives tons of very good reasons why you should become one.
Infectious disease is the hardest b/c it contains MORE INFORMATION than all the other classes combine! Damn, it's like you pretty much have to have a photographic memory to memorize every single detail of very single powerpoint slide!!! I have a very good memory and even I have to admit it is a TON of information!!!
P3 year in general have classes that require you to memorize much more information than P1 or P2 classes.
I guess the only thing that can cause depression in me is if I really do suck at being a pharmacist. As of right now, I do not feel at all ready to be a pharmacist. I am NOT confident at all in my ability to become a good one. I just do not know enough to be a very good one. I don't have much work experience at all. I am kinda scared....
I see where you're coming from with this, I know people who do it that really try to push it on people as gospel. Generally, I don't follow the paleo motif and go the primal route (less strict, more focus on just eating whole/real food), and only suggest it to other people when they're actively looking for a change or frustrated with what they're currently doing. All I know is that I'm exercising less, eating as much as I want, and in better shape than ever after switching.
Also, I know what ranking you're talking about and it's from U.S. News, so I tend to give it minimal credibility. My hunch is that their panel of "health experts" have direct ties to the government (and therefore big agriculture), so the rankings don't surprise me. Gotta push those "healthy whole grains."
It's kind of funny that the major study that started the recommendation of a low-fat diet to lower CVD risk was actually a sham (Ancel Keys' "Seven Countries Study"), yet has persisted ever since.
Grocery bills are definitely the downside to this style of eating (especially in major urban areas), but I consider it an investment. Honestly, I think the paleo diet is a little too strict and the primal diet makes more sense to me (check out marksdailyapple.com if you haven't already). It doesn't condemn dairy as long as your body can handle it, provided that you try to get it raw and grassfed. Grassfed butter and cream are AMAZING. You can visually see and taste the difference.
Also, there isn't so much of a restriction on things like fruit and potatoes/sweet potatoes as long as you're pretty active. I do heavy lifting 3x/week and I think it's helped me be able to sustain it.
Eat less. Stay thin.
Eat more. Get fat.
Paleo isn't really a weight loss diet, afaik. Most people I know who are on it are already in great shape, and just feel more energy by eating that way.
Those are all raw foods that should be fine to eat. It can be pretty hard to get enough protein as a vegan, unless you're eating tons of beans and nuts.
I actually wasn't aware of a difference between primal and paleo, I thought they were synonyms. If primal lets me have dairy, I'll definitely have to look into that.
Yeah, I'm just limiting my fruits and carbs for a little while to drop some bodyfat and keep my lean mass. It's sort of like an Atkin's diet.
Bacon blue cheese burgers are done, time for lunch!
1. calm down
2. I'm just making a suggestion to help people out. I'm not coming to your house and making you eat the way I do.
3. As the above poster said, eating paleo/primal is not a diet. Please do not associate paleo/primal with such disgusting words as diet. The fact that you associate them with "diet" shows how little you know about the subject. Diets have a beginning and end date. No paleo/primal book every says you should start and end at any point. Its a life style change that is implemented over a prolonged period of time. The reason Paleo was probably ranked the lowest on that list is because a. the people making that list didn't know what they were talking about, and b. its not a diet so it shouldn't be on that list.
4. Yes people eat crap that wasn't available in the stone age, do you know why? Because this is no longer the stone age. I'm all for eating paleo, but I also support living life and eating foods that you enjoy once in a while.
5. As for the fruit topic, again please refrain from providing your opinion until you are at least somewhat knowledgeable about the topic. Modern fruit has been genetically modified to be 2-3X larger and contain much more sugar than fruit in ancient times. Then people wonder why they aren't losing weight after eating bananas and grapes all day. I'm not saying don't eat fruit, just be more conscious.
I've heard of the books, but I'm probably not gonna get around to reading them. Did they have any particular reason you remember why they recommended not to eat meat?
This line encompasses everything that eating paleo/primal is all about.
Not to be rude or anything but this is exactly what the average person thinks, and this is why the average person is overweight. It's a very 1 dimensional idea. People need to look more into it. "Eat more. Get fat" is fine, but eat more of what? If people start breaking it down into fats, proteins, and carbs they will get a better picture of things.
Oh for the love......it's a completely valid concept. I eat 1100 calories a day, I have a BMI of 19.6. I don't break down any more than that, and I eat whatever I want, in moderation.
No. Its exactly the over complication of what to eat and not that causes the confusion and obesity. Hiw often do you see obese people chowing down on a bucket full of salad thinking they are going to lose weight? portion control is the single most important factor in weight control not what to eat. Now if we are talking about health benefits of different types of food and exercise, thats a different topic. Whatever you think is the best food to consume for weight loss, you aint going to lose a single pound if you consume more than your body can consume.
Exercise and what to eat are overrated in weight loss. Its the amount of food consumed.
Exercise and eat right to stay healthy. Control the portion to control the weight.
You dont know nothin. youre just a resident!
An entire head of lettuce is only 90 calories. If you eat the whole thing, you're definitely going to be full, and on a hell of lot fewer calories than most other meals. Problem is, fatties have a "salad" that has fried chicken, blue cheese dressing or balsamic, candied nuts, eggs, and that salad adds up to over 1200 calories now.
I completely agree the key to weight loss is portion control/cutting calories. But that's going to be nearly impossible if you're always hungry. If you select the right foods, you can eat your fill and still hit your caloric goal.
An entire head of lettuce??? Lol
1. Calm down about what? About self-proclaimed dietary experts giving bad advice?
3. "diet: food and drink considered in terms of its qualities, composition, and its
effects on health: Milk is a wholesome article of diet."
Explain how this isn't a diet.
4. Then you contradict the whole point of paleo. Don't use the term.
5. At least somewhat knowledgeable ?
You said: "Bread and table sugar may taste different to your mouth but it's all the same to your stomach."
LOL. Try reading up on a concept as basic as complex and simple carbohydrates, then return to this discussion. Modern fruit genetically modified???? Do you know how little fruit has actually been genetically modified? You need to read up on cultivation/cultivars (the technique that has produced the varieties we eat today), which has nothing to do with genetic modification. And they were cultivated for shelf life. Please provide me with some evidence that they have more sugar.
From faculty to diets. I this forum
This is what keeps me coming back to SDN on a (almost) daily basis. I'd never even heard of paleo before today.