Anonymous Attending Salary Poll

[MellowYellowCA]

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SoCal Kaiser hires in the low 180's plus benefits, partner track, plus 25k signing bonus (or so per year), advancing to 225-ish once partner in 3 years.

Is Kaiser one of the better paying opportunities in terms of working for someone else in SoCal? 25K increase per years seems really high - is that typical? Meaning, if one starts at 180K their first year after 5 years they would already be making 300K?

 

[MellowYellowCA]

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[MellowYellowCA]

That's a very interesting brake down of salaries. Do you know where the data comes from? Interesting that, even though the n =11, geriatric psychiatrist had the highest mean at $234. Not sure that stands up to the common thinking regarding what the different subspecialties make.

I am also surprised by the figures in that survey, many of them seem way higher than I had expected for multiple specialties (higher than other resources' reported values), and I had always thought that geriatrics psychs make less than both general adult and C&A Psychs??

 

[jettavr6]

What type of business ventures as a psychiatrist?

Also are sleep medicine or pain medicine common areas for a psychiatrist or are they more common for neurologist or anesthesiologist?

What type of post psychiatry training do sleep or pain medicine require - how long does it take and how hard it is to get into?

1. Business ventures - that is for you to decide
2. Pain - More common for Anesthesia and PM&R
3. The answers for pain have already been posted in the FAQ's in the Pain Medicine section and in other basic searches on the board.

 

[jettavr6]

I put very little faith in the salary surveys. Most of them are out dated, and have very little utility.

Get out there and network. See who is doing what - one psychiatrist may be working in three locations. Another one might not be as ambitious. A survey is going to give you the average of the two.

Nothing can substitute for doing your DD. Look into competition, demographics, taxes, over head costs, etc. Knowledge is power.

Lastly, use some common sense. What is hot now, is going to become saturated in 5 years. Anyone notice a glut of cardiologists and radiologists out there? The same thing happened with child psychiatry to a certain extent. Therefore, what is the market going to look like for Geropsych (10 years) and are you going to be well positioned for it?

Disclaimer: Everything can change with Obama care.... But somehow, I think psychiatry is going to be ok.

 

[Hinglish]

Wow, I didn't know you guys made so much! I'm a family psych NP student and I'm just wondering if any of you guys have heard of similar earning potentials for psych NP's with part time jobs, private practice, call etc... ? I know it won't be as much as you psych MD's but I know that psych NP's can make around 2/3, 3/4 of what a psychiatrist makes in certain states (in comparison to a single job, 40 hour work week).

 

[psychphan]

As someone who is (most likely) interested in academics, I find it somewhat disheartening to see the salary discrepancies between private practice and academics. And honestly, I don't really understand why the starting salaries are so low. There is a huge difference between low-mid 100s and 200k, especially when 200-300k in student loans are hanging around to worry about. I've heard that academic psychiatrists supplement their salaried income with private practice, but how does that work in terms of commitment to the University/Institution where they work. Do most of the people who do this academic/private combo only have part time obligations to the University, or are they just working overtime in private practice in addition to their full time duties? I really don't think I'd let money prevent me from ultimately doing what I want to do, but it is something to consider I guess.

As far as poll salary numbers, personally I've found most of those salary.com and similar websites to be pretty useless. I did however, also find the article in modern healthcare that digitalnoise was talking about to be very useful. It was a conglomerate of salary polls from 10-15 different sources, including physician recruiters and national organizations. It can be found at the link below but unfortunately you know have to pay ($250!) for the salary charts that early were up for free and were the most useful part. Anyways, here's the link although it probably won't be nearly as useful without the charts.

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20100719/MAGAZINE/100719968

 

[digitlnoize]

I think I've got the article around somewhere with the charts...not sure if I'm allowed to post it though, since they're now charging for the information (which wasn't the case when I got the article)...

 

[whopper]

As for salary surveys, I too have found they are rather limited, and that the more I've worked, the more there is to make money while still delivering quality care. The two can go hand-in-hand.

I've figured out a way I could make about 1/2 a million/year...in theory. Will I execute it? At least not for now. Making quite a bit of money the way I'm going now and I don't know if I want to push through that pain threshold.

If you just work for a place, you will make a standard salary. Make your own practice, do good work to the point where you're noticed, and build up connections...

I now have gotten a job offer pretty much every 2-3 weeks. I've gotten enough experience to now know that if I started my own business, I could have the thing raking in a lot of money within about 6 months. The ironic thing is now I've figured this out, (I didn't know this stuff until after fellowship), I'm actually thinking of taking a teaching position that'll pay a salary, though I'm making arrangements for me to be in the more profitable areas of the psychiatry dept...so I'll likely be making much more than a usual salaried position, but it's still less than what I could make if I were on my own.

Why am I doing this? It's a chance to work with some of the best people in the field who will be further training me and treating me as a colleague, I could teach, get a stab at some prime real estate in terms of making more connections, and do research.

 

[HappyGenome]

I now have gotten a job offer pretty much every 2-3 weeks. I've gotten enough experience to now know that if I started my own business, I could have the thing raking in a lot of money within about 6 months. The ironic thing is now I've figured this out, (I didn't know this stuff until after fellowship), I'm actually thinking of taking a teaching position that'll pay a salary, though I'm making arrangements for me to be in the more profitable areas of the psychiatry dept...so I'll likely be making much more than a usual salaried position, but it's still less than what I could make if I were on my own.

What makes one area more profitable than another in psychiatry?

 

[jojo100]

we need more responses! 🙂

 

[PistolPete]

Not many attendings post on here, let alone would post their income...

 

[billypilgrim37]

and those ranges aren't very sensitive. the difference between 125 and 175 is pretty huge in terms of lifestyle.

 

[digitlnoize]

and those ranges aren't very sensitive. the difference between 125 and 175 is pretty huge in terms of lifestyle.

Yah, but if you combine everything > $225k into one category, that becomes the most popular response with 14 responses, which is very encouraging to me. #2 is the 175k-225k category with 13. The less than 175k combines category would still only total 9 to the over 175k's 27.

By this poll there is a 9:1 chance you'll make >175k in psychiatry. Pretty good odds.

 

[F0nzie]

By this poll there is a 9:1 chance you'll make >175k in psychiatry. Pretty good odds.

I have not seen anything under 175k for full-time other than in academics or the VA. 200k minimum seems about right for full-time inpatient or community outpatient mental health. It sure is nice! 🙂

 

[imp3tigo]

Is Kaiser one of the better paying opportunities in terms of working for someone else in SoCal? 25K increase per years seems really high - is that typical? Meaning, if one starts at 180K their first year after 5 years they would already be making 300K?

Don't drink the koolaid... no way a Kaiser psychiatrist is making as much as an anethesiologist. Psychiatry is not procedure based and we will never make the big bucks that specialties like radiology or cardiology make, or even neurology, unless you're willing to live in Wisconsin or Mississippi or have a very lucrative private/group practice.

 

[imp3tigo]

I have not seen anything under 175k for full-time other than in academics or the VA. 200k minimum seems about right for full-time inpatient or community outpatient mental health. It sure is nice! 🙂

Yes, I have colleagues who have gotten offers of $190-200k fresh out of residency/fellowship doing only inpatient at a community hospital in a major coastal metropolitan city (top 10 size metro).

 

[imp3tigo]

By this poll there is a 9:1 chance you'll make >175k in psychiatry. Pretty good odds.

I would say you can fairly easily make more than $175k coming out of residency for outpatient and definitely more for inpatient. Even in a big city on the east/west coast.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Don't drink the koolaid... no way a Kaiser psychiatrist is making as much as an anethesiologist. Psychiatry is not procedure based and we will never make the big bucks that specialties like radiology or cardiology make, or even neurology, unless you're willing to live in Wisconsin or Mississippi or have a very lucrative private/group practice.

I could care less what an anesthesiologist or cardiologist make. If you said they made $1Mill per year I'd say good for them, I still get to work under great hours, low stress, a schedule I can sculpt however I want in my own private practice, won't have to deal with crappy insurance reimbursements, I get to care for patients over a long time, and work anywhere in the country at any time. You can't pay me enough to give all that up. Given these benefits, a range of $150 to $350 in this field is great ! (I happen to know a psychiatrist who makes over $400K in the LA region, so the potential is there if I really want it some day, but I'm not very driven by money.)

 

[imp3tigo]

(I happen to know a psychiatrist who makes over $400K in the LA region, so the potential is there if I really want it some day, but I'm not very driven by money.)

My point is that it's irresponsible to give prospective psychiatrists in training the expectation that psychiatrists can routinely make $300k+. It is rare and not an easy (or quick) thing to establish a private practice that can pull in that kind of money. You really need to a psychiatrist in Beverly Hills or the Upper East/West Side with wealthy patients who pay out of pocket to pull in that kind of dough since there are no procedures that you can charge huge amounts of cash for doing.

What's realistic is about $170-200k straight out of residency and somewhere in the 200s for mid career psychiatrists.