Another Adcom, ask me (almost) anything

[hushcom]

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I have a question regarding committee letters vs. individual letters.

I am currently a grad student studying in London at the moment. My undergrad university (in the US) will write health committee letters, and I qualify for them. However, I am currently debating applying with individual letters. In undergrad, I was a TA for 3 science classes and 1 social science course. I applied to a fellowship in the past and ended up being able to read some of the letters from the same profs (they sent them to me). They were amazing!!! I feel like using letters from those profs would be a lot better for my application. Also, my undergrad university is currently extremely backed-up with committee letters. The undergrad committee doesn't "know" me; they just have access to the same info as AMCAS. Furthermore, I would have to do a phone interview since I am out of the country while everyone else at my university usually does in-person interviews.

However, I have heard that committee letters are preferred. Any advice? Will I be sabotaging myself with using individual letters if my school offers committee letters?

Do you know how your school's committee constructs it letters? It will be very difficult to make a sound decision without knowing their process. Also, if they are backlogged then you really should have sorted this out before now.

 

[pandadawn]

I have never had anyone bring it up, although I have check our school-specific thread here and seen some appalling lack of creativity in user names. If your name is Dave Primrose and your handle is "DPrim1980" it makes me want to try and get your acceptance revoked.

In case anyone is wondering, I made up David Primrose just now, and apologize to anyone with the handle DPrim1980.

I think David Primrose sounds like a great guy--why revoke his acceptance?? Do you see something inherrently wrong in having a non-anonymous online presence? I ask because I keep my social media pages totally open--I have nothing to be ashamed of and I think of them as a platform to express myself. I only use abstract usernames (like pandadawn) when I want to ask embarassing questions (like "how low of a GPA is acceptable?"). ..Should we all be hiding?

 

[meupatdoes]

Thanks for your assistance!

 

[naijacardriodoc]

@hushcom how do adcoms view multiple mcat scores? When does it become a red flag?

 

[hoihaie]

REgarding the works and activities section:
I have 1 oral presentation at one of the minisymposium during the 2014 AACR meeting this past April and 2 poster presentations (one at AACR and one at another conference). SHould I list these together or separate the AACR presentation since it is more prominent?

Also, would that oral presentation make my application look significantly better? Thanks!!

 

[Bovary]

Hushcom, what's your best "bang for the buck" scotch, with emphasis on peat flavors? I like Laphroaig, I liked an Aberlour 12 I had, and I'm drinking Black Grouse now, which is blended but is still smokey and under $40 in my expensive city. Any other suggestions for single malts or blends that are smokey/peaty without (relatively) breaking the bank?

Edit: less important follow up to stay on topic: Have you seen non-diverse, non-disadvantaged applicants (i.e. run-of-the-mill middle class, white applicants) nevertheless write impressive essays answering some variation of "what diversity do you bring to our school" that some secondaries offer? Or, if your school doesn't ask questions like this, do you have pertinent advice for someone in my position who's worked hard to succeed in school but has never needed to overcome significantly adverse conditions?

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Wow, thank you for doing this.

-Letter of recommendation: Does it matter (or even worse looked down upon) if I get a co-worker to give me one? I work in a lab and I'm on friendly terms with the pathologist.... I'm not sure if I should shadow him or ask him for anything because a med school might see this as a lack of effort....

-I've heard many med schools look down/away from students who are changing from a medical profession to medical school, do you consider this to be true?

-Volunteering.... Does it bother you if someone isn't very strong in this area?

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Sorry, missed it.

1. I have no opinion on early decision programs.
2. I judge on a case-by-case basis.
3. I'm not sure, but a biochem major will likely have an easier time in M1 than someone who does the minimum prereqs and majors in history.
4. Most medicine is ambulatory nowadays, so I would be fine with that. A LOR from a doctor you work with would be a bonus.
5. Musicians are good because demonstrating that level of skill take serious perseverance, but it won't make you.

Very interesting! One university I almost went to strongly suggested a degree in a non-science field and said med schools want to see more than a bunch of science nerds..... I found it to be odd, but considering their position and access to people in the process too difficult to toss out.......... All things equal would you prefer a Bio/Science major over a Art/Music major?

-Also, I've found a way to get a bio degree without any foreign language courses (although I am fluent in a foreign language that isn't taught in many schools) ..... I've been told this is a bad idea...... Should I take a year of foreign language anyways? Did you?

 

[hushcom]

No, I actually did. My school has a deadline on Jan 31 and all of my documents, personal statement, and information were submitted prior to the deadline. However, the committee is very behind this year and hasn't gotten to alumni applicants yet. This is one of the reasons why it is a little aggravating since I submitted everything before the deadline and they are processing letters for people that submitted things late already before alumni applicants. I have been in contact with the director often yet I have received little communication, and it does not seem like alumni will be interviewed till after the semester. I know that other alumni applicants have approached the dean surrounding this issue.

The committee has access to information about our coursework, activities (more than AMCAS) since we write essays about each activity, and other essays about our motivation to apply to medical school. They interview each candidate and write a committee letter The letter does not reference any other letters of recommendation.

Thanks for your assistance!

Since you are a grad student and the committee letter does not reference the other letters I would feel comfortable letting it go.

 

[hushcom]

I think David Primrose sounds like a great guy--why revoke his acceptance??

Lack of creativity.

Do you see something inherrently wrong in having a non-anonymous online presence? I ask because I keep my social media pages totally open--I have nothing to be ashamed of and I think of them as a platform to express myself. I only use abstract usernames (like pandadawn) when I want to ask embarassing questions (like "how low of a GPA is acceptable?"). ..Should we all be hiding?

If we don't have anything nice to say, we should be anonymous.

 

[hushcom]

Do you generally view committee letter looks better than individual letters?

If a student can get a committee letter but chooses not to that looks a little suspicious. It think most premeds find these committees to be obstacles (which they are, from a bureaucratic standpoint), but the vast majority really do want to help their students gain admission and act as advocates in the process. When applicants decide to not use their committee it's not damning but looks a little odd, like they are trying to cover up some unsavory aspect of their past or otherwise game the process. For alumni this all goes out the window.

Also, most of the committee letters I read are largely digestions of the other letters with added commentary, so it is not an either/or proposition.

Also, do you think I should keep more time for myself to study for the MCAT over the summer while volunteering as an EMS or should I throw research once a week and clinical research too?

I'm not sure how one throws research once a week and clinical research too.

 

[hushcom]

@hushcom how do adcoms view multiple mcat scores? When does it become a red flag?

Depends on the scores themselves and the timing of the tests.

 

[hushcom]

REgarding the works and activities section:
I have 1 oral presentation at one of the minisymposium during the 2014 AACR meeting this past April and 2 poster presentations (one at AACR and one at another conference). SHould I list these together or separate the AACR presentation since it is more prominent?

Also, would that oral presentation make my application look significantly better? Thanks!!

I would separate them. A platform presentation is a nice feather in your cap.

 

[hushcom]

Hushcom, what's your best "bang for the buck" scotch, with emphasis on peat flavors? I like Laphroaig, I liked an Aberlour 12 I had, and I'm drinking Black Grouse now, which is blended but is still smokey and under $40 in my expensive city. Any other suggestions for single malts or blends that are smokey/peaty without (relatively) breaking the bank?

A "fresh" bottle of Oban 14 is my own go-to, although if you're a peat monster it might not be enough. I cannot comment on the prices in your area, but if you like Laphroaig you could start with some of the other Islay distilleries (Ardbeg, Bruichladdich, Bunnahabhain, Lagavulin, Port Charlotte, etc.). Talisker from Skye is also quite peaty. Another option is to just buy random bottles in your target price range until you find one that suits you. That route can be the longest but it has the highest payoff.

Edit: less important follow up to stay on topic: Have you seen non-diverse, non-disadvantaged applicants (i.e. run-of-the-mill middle class, white applicants) nevertheless write impressive essays answering some variation of "what diversity do you bring to our school" that some secondaries offer? Or, if your school doesn't ask questions like this, do you have pertinent advice for someone in my position who's worked hard to succeed in school but has never needed to overcome significantly adverse conditions?

Most of our applicants have not suffered much, we try not to hold it against them. Really, there isn't much you can do other than acknowledge that whatever challenges you have faced in life were not that awful compared to some others.

 

[pbrocks15]

Does clinical research look better than wet lab research?

Also, i was in a program during my senior year of High School where I took college classes and a Medical Theory class and shadowed almost 20 different health care professionals. Should I write about this?
I feel like this was an amazing experience but I am discouraged to write about it because it was during HS.

How wouldb paid research for a year look compared to working at a place life pfizer ( just running assays all day

Is there a significant difference between a 3.8 GPA and 3.9 GPA? Is there a cut off that you generally make when looking at GPAs (sorry if you mentioned this already).

How do you view the NIH IRTA program? Would you say being in that program would be better than working with a PI that is not affiliated with the program? Also, would it matter if it was only one year in the NIH IRTA program compared to the others who stay for two years?

Thanks again!

 

[rotarman]

How do you feel about legitimate, practical reasons for why 'your school'? It seems like you're expected to make up these metaphysical reasons for liking each school. Do reasons like family in the area, SO w/ job there, cheaper BC in-state cut it?

 

[Tradewinds]

If your primary is submitted by early June but your MCAT score is not slated to return until August 12, is this on the late side for MD? (assuming you've prewritten secondaries and submit within a week of score return or secondary request - whichever comes first)
Thanks!

 

[shindino14]

How should I really distinguish myself with a 28MCAT 3.4 GPA? It has been a life long dream of mine to go to med school and I would really like to know how to show med schools to look beyond numbers

 

[ElliotTXMD]

You might get in with this package, but it's a tough sell because your application is fairly unbalanced. Recent academic performance in science courses is good, but it does not erase your prior record. 500+ hours of shadowing is good if you have some insight, but your service is light, although perhaps somewhat mitigated by your job demands. A 29 MCAT is okay, raising it would help.

The highly competitive Texas schools are unlikely to take the bait for academic reasons, whereas the less competitive ones may see you as unlikely to fulfill their mission. Perhaps you can hit the sweet spot in between.

In any case, doing well in an SMP, raising your MCAT, and getting some quality service in (even at the expense of yet more shadowing) will help your odds a great deal.

Thanks for the reply, Hushcom.

As a follow up, TMDSAS opens up apps on May 1st. I gather that proximity to opening date will give me a better chance in receiving interview opportunities. My question is, do I wait until July 6 to submit when my new MCAT grade is released, or do I submit around the 1st week of June when my committee letter etc is finished and then update my apps with the new MCAT score as its available?

I'm sure its been answered before, but id love to hear your take on the importance and weight of a personal statement. I've been working on mine these past few weeks and its almost complete. I really do feel that it will have a very positive impact. Is it optimistic to think that it will appreciably help my chances? Or does a good PS simply not hurt your chances?
Thanks again

 

[hoihaie]

REgarding works adn activities section again:

I have almost 3 years of research experiences (2 undergrad and 1 as master's student) studying cancer metastasis in the same lab working on the same project, which is my thesis project (except I took on another side project as grad student). Should I list my undergrad research and grad research years as 2 separate items or combine them?

 

[hushcom]

Wow, thank you for doing this.

-Letter of recommendation: Does it matter (or even worse looked down upon) if I get a co-worker to give me one? I work in a lab and I'm on friendly terms with the pathologist.... I'm not sure if I should shadow him or ask him for anything because a med school might see this as a lack of effort....

-I've heard many med schools look down/away from students who are changing from a medical profession to medical school, do you consider this to be true?

-Volunteering.... Does it bother you if someone isn't very strong in this area?

1. Rec letters should come from people who know you well, and who have enough stature to have their words count. Being on friendly terms with a pathologist doesn't sound like an automatic yes, but if you cultivate that relationship and he feels comfortable writing you one then I say go for it.

2. I think medical schools look away from students who come off as perpetually unsatisfied.

3. Volunteering... depends on what else is going on in the application. For people who clearly have the time I like to see some volunteering, and the lessons derived from it can really add to the interview. Sometimes I have nontraditional applicants who come from circumstances where volunteering would be extremely difficult, so I consider that mitigated.

 

[hushcom]

Very interesting! One university I almost went to strongly suggested a degree in a non-science field and said med schools want to see more than a bunch of science nerds..... I found it to be odd, but considering their position and access to people in the process too difficult to toss out.......... All things equal would you prefer a Bio/Science major over a Art/Music major?

All things are never equal.

-Also, I've found a way to get a bio degree without any foreign language courses (although I am fluent in a foreign language that isn't taught in many schools) ..... I've been told this is a bad idea...... Should I take a year of foreign language anyways? Did you?

No, it will not do anything for you except run a high risk of hurting your GPA. The only exception might be medical Spanish, although I would not go out of my way for it.

 

[hushcom]

Does clinical research look better than wet lab research?

Also, i was in a program during my senior year of High School where I took college classes and a Medical Theory class and shadowed almost 20 different health care professionals. Should I write about this?
I feel like this was an amazing experience but I am discouraged to write about it because it was during HS.

How wouldb paid research for a year look compared to working at a place life pfizer ( just running assays all day

Is there a significant difference between a 3.8 GPA and 3.9 GPA? Is there a cut off that you generally make when looking at GPAs (sorry if you mentioned this already).

How do you view the NIH IRTA program? Would you say being in that program would be better than working with a PI that is not affiliated with the program? Also, would it matter if it was only one year in the NIH IRTA program compared to the others who stay for two years?

Thanks again!

1. There is no single answer to the clinical versus wet lab question. Every lab is different, every project is different, every mentor is different, every student is different.

2. You could write about it as the thing that sold you on a career in medicine, but in general high school should stay in high school.

3. Fine.

4. 8 and 9 look almost the same to me. I have no cutoff, but when I get an app with an undergraduate GPA <3.0 I wonder what the person did to get past our screeners.

5. I view it well, and do not nitpick over PI affiliations or 1-2 years in the program.

 

[hushcom]

How do you feel about legitimate, practical reasons for why 'your school'? It seems like you're expected to make up these metaphysical reasons for liking each school. Do reasons like family in the area, SO w/ job there, cheaper BC in-state cut it?

Most applicants just regurgitate some generic drivel that they pulled off the school's website. It neither wins nor loses points.

OTOH, family in area = great reason, S/O with job here = great reason. Those are factors which will genuinely lead a strong applicant to choose us over some other school.

Don't bring up cost in an interview setting.

 

[hushcom]

Thanks for the reply, Hushcom.

As a follow up, TMDSAS opens up apps on May 1st. I gather that proximity to opening date will give me a better chance in receiving interview opportunities. My question is, do I wait until July 6 to submit when my new MCAT grade is released, or do I submit around the 1st week of June when my committee letter etc is finished and then update my apps with the new MCAT score as its available?

I'm sure its been answered before, but id love to hear your take on the importance and weight of a personal statement. I've been working on mine these past few weeks and its almost complete. I really do feel that it will have a very positive impact. Is it optimistic to think that it will appreciably help my chances? Or does a good PS simply not hurt your chances?
Thanks again

1. The latter.

2. I read personal statements to make sure the applicant is not completely off his/her rocker. I have become cynical enough to decide that most of the well crafted ones were probably written or highly refined by a third party. That is not to say you shouldn't care, your PS might be read by someone who is quite moved and goes to bat for you. But the overall importance of the PS is generally overblown, IMHO.

 

[hushcom]

If your primary is submitted by early June but your MCAT score is not slated to return until August 12, is this on the late side for MD? (assuming you've prewritten secondaries and submit within a week of score return or secondary request - whichever comes first)
Thanks!

I really do not have a good feel for the nuances of application timing, other than to say earlier is better. Plenty of action will be happening in August, but it's less than ideal.

 

[EngineerPreMD]

Most applicants just regurgitate some generic drivel that they pulled off the school's website. It neither wins nor loses points.

OTOH, family in area = great reason, S/O with job here = great reason. Those are factors which will genuinely lead a strong applicant to choose us over some other school.

Don't bring up cost in an interview setting.

This is valuable information right here, especially about cost. I'm actually surprised as it is a real concern and a real strong reason you would pick one school over another (I might choose a lower cost school so I feel comfortable going into a lower-paying specialty), but I can see it being off putting to see an applicant concerned about the cost of education. I guess saving to minimize debt won't be a reason I cite for choosing my current job over something academic/volunteer-based.

Thanks for the info @hushcom. I think this bit of information will really help me.

 

[hoihaie]

Just in case you missed this 🙂

Thanks!

REgarding works adn activities section again:

I have almost 3 years of research experiences (2 undergrad and 1 as master's student) studying cancer metastasis in the same lab working on the same project, which is my thesis project (except I took on another side project as grad student). Should I list my undergrad research and grad research years as 2 separate items or combine them?

 

[optimistic3]

If an applicant has been through a serious medical issue (such as cancer), do you feel that in any way enhances their chances of gaining acceptance? They certainly went through a lot, which could explain some poor grades in undergrad, and also truly saw what it was like from a patient's point of view dealing with a life-threatening illness.

Or is an experience like that simply a neutral factor?

 

[blackroses]

What questions do you wish more applicants asked you at the end of an interview?

 

[MalachiteGreen]

What do you think of letters of recommendations from physicians students have shadowing for a month-long period?

 

[chenzt]

If your primary is submitted by early June but your MCAT score is not slated to return until August 12, is this on the late side for MD? (assuming you've prewritten secondaries and submit within a week of score return or secondary request - whichever comes first)
Thanks!

June accounts for about ~1/3 of all applications submitted (AAMC twitter tweets how many applications they have received sporadically) and last year the last few of the June people didn't get verified until early August (actually 8/12 according to AMCAS verification thread).

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2013-2014-amcas-verification-thread.1011614/page-37

 

[kouentou13]

Hi Hushcom,

 

[hushcom]

I'm actually surprised as it is a real concern and a real strong reason you would pick one school over another (I might choose a lower cost school so I feel comfortable going into a lower-paying specialty), but I can see it being off putting to see an applicant concerned about the cost of education.

It most certainly would be off putting. Imagine you are interviewing someone and you ask why he/she chose to apply to your institution. Among all the possible answers the applicant says "Because you're relatively inexpensive."

Even sure things don't like to be told they are sure things. The COA for IS and OOS students is not exactly a mystery, and everyone knows that cost is a huge factor in making this decision.

 

[hushcom]

Just in case you missed this 🙂

Thanks!

You can list the research once, but separate the time frames to reflect undergrad vs. grad. For instance, sometimes people list a job or service activity they did every summer while in college, so the time frames would look like:

06/10-09/13
06/10-09/12
06/10-09/11
06/10-09/10

In the description of the activity you can also state that you have worked on the project for three years, two of them as an undergrad, so it will be easy for us to understand. I would advise against splitting this into two EC's, because it would look like you are just trying to pad things.

 

[hushcom]

If an applicant has been through a serious medical issue (such as cancer), do you feel that in any way enhances their chances of gaining acceptance? They certainly went through a lot, which could explain some poor grades in undergrad, and also truly saw what it was like from a patient's point of view dealing with a life-threatening illness.

Or is an experience like that simply a neutral factor?

Such things are usually seen as a positive for the reasons you list above, but it can put the applicant in the tough situation of having to decide how much private medical information to disclose.

 

[hushcom]

What questions do you wish more applicants asked you at the end of an interview?

"Do you have a license for those guns?"

 

[hushcom]

What do you think of letters of recommendations from physicians students have shadowing for a month-long period?

If the comments are positive then it's certainly not a bad thing. A month of shadowing could be anywhere from 4-160 hours, so it would also somewhat depend on the level of engagement.

 

[hushcom]

Hi Hushcom,

So I'm aware that a positive light is shone on those who served in the Peace Corps, but I was wondering how much of that light is remove and whether it turns negative when they realize I terminated my service.
I can understand an adcom's concern on this issue because they want someone to enter and stay in their med school, but I believe my reasons are legitimate. I was Burkina Faso for 18 months and came back to the states. I was really lonely, felt I wasn't not prepared for the linguistic barrier I encountered in my village (spoke a very obscure dialect), and thought I could do more. I petitioned to be moved to another village where I could hopefully communicate better with the people I'd be living with and whose needs were more in line with my skills. I was turned down and ultimately made the decision to return home thinking my time would be better spent on American soil.
While I left early, I still gained everything I wanted to gain going into PC (maturity, cultural knowledge, travel, etc.) and learned some lessons as to what made me leave PC early to begin with (I could have researched PC and the country I was to live in more, I could have had a more accurate picture of what PC actually does, etc.). However, I'm concerned this is something I may not explain to the extent that it'd rid the sour taste in an interviewer's mouth. Thoughts?

What would a full term have been? 24 months?

 

[medschhopeful]

Dear hushcom,

Any advice for applicants looking to get off the wait-list at top choice schools? The school is open to updates and letters of interest. I've already sent several updates throughout the applicant cycle. However, I'm worried that inundating them with letters would be seen as annoying. Is it appropriate to mention that you've been accepted at another school and would rather go there?

Thanks!

 

[hushcom]

Dear hushcom,

Any advice for applicants looking to get off the wait-list at top choice schools? The school is open to updates and letters of interest. I've already sent several updates throughout the applicant cycle. However, I'm worried that inundating them with letters would be seen as annoying. Is it appropriate to mention that you've been accepted at another school and would rather go there?

Thanks!

If you have already sent updates then more will not help, and do run the risk of getting annoying. Your only option is to wait. Do not mention that you have been accepted at another program, nobody cares, and the school already knows.

 

[pbrocks15]

Do schools look down on research if it was it hasn't been published?

 

[ReadyToRumble]

If you have already sent updates then more will not help, and do run the risk of getting annoying. Your only option is to wait. Do not mention that you have been accepted at another program, nobody cares, and the school already knows.

One dean on interview day actually told us that if we were accepted at another program but prefer theirs then we should write in, "Dear Dean, Got into Y but really prefer you" and to not really waste too much effort being flowery with the letter. Obviously no one would really write a one sentence letter but it did seem she was serious about mentioning another school. Another adcom I came across on the interview trail also mentioned that when a candidate has been accepted elsewhere it gives them the sense that the candidate has been vetted already. I don't really know the inner workings of admissions but I'm guessing they have access to whether a student is holding an acceptance or not but the information isn't readily marked on the application without looking it up, so calling attention to it is helpful. Or annoying? I wish this process weren't so shrouded in mystery and speculation, thanks again for the thread.

 

[S0CaLGuY]

To what extent do you consider the UG school of an applicant? I'm a HS senior and have been accepted to the Health Sciences school at Georgetown. Wondering how much graduating from this program would matter in medical school admissions compared to graduating from a low-ranked state school.

 

[kouentou13]

What would a full term have been? 24 months?

Yes, between 24 and 26 months.

 

[optimistic3]

Such things are usually seen as a positive for the reasons you list above, but it can put the applicant in the tough situation of having to decide how much private medical information to disclose.

Can it ever be used against me in this case (applications/interviews)? I am pretty open about it and I don't have a problem with letting anyone know that I had cancer last year (now in remission) but now you've got me thinking twice about it in a professional setting.

 

[hushcom]

Do schools look down on research if it was it hasn't been published?

No.

 

[hushcom]

One dean on interview day actually told us that if we were accepted at another program but prefer theirs then we should write in, "Dear Dean, Got into Y but really prefer you" and to not really waste too much effort being flowery with the letter.

I suspect that Dean was fishing for information to benefit him/her, not you.

 

[pbrocks15]

Does a publicaton that is not relative to medicine directly (ie. Basic sciences) have less impact as one that does? Or are they all viewed the same?

Do a publication during the gap year look less impressive then one in undergrad because you had so much more time?

Does it matter where I do my gap year research? What I mean is: would research at a top tier institution that doesn't pay well look better than an institution that does pay well?

 

[EngineerPreMD]

Does it matter where I do my gap year research? What I mean is: would research at a top tier institution that doesn't pay well look better than an institution that does pay well?

At this level go where you will have the greatest chance of publishing. If you can get more involved at the lesser institution, do so. But remember that if the lower-ranked institution has fewer resources then publishing may be more difficult. I would assess the situation, and go where I could publish. (Unless we're talking serious cash that you NEED for living/saving).