Another Kaiser strike ?

[msc545]

Some 2,400 Kaiser mental health workers in Southern California say they’re prepared to go on strike if the health care provider can't meet demands aimed at reducing employee turnover and improving patient care. More than 80% of caregivers — including psychologists, social workers and marriage and family therapists — signed the strike authorization petition.

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[Sanman]

I sense a pattern here....

 

[cara susanna]

Kaiser should have a sign outside that says: (x) Days Since a Strike

 

[Sanman]

Kaiser mental health workers could strike next week. What does that mean for patients?

Per that article, folks are seeing 10-18 pts/day. Welcome to the meat grinder.

For those confused about 18 pts/day. My bet is 25 min per patient with a 30 min lunch.

 

[msc545]

I sense a pattern here....

Yes. Kaiser's business plan apparently does not include time for charting or other documentation since that is not billable time, and they are having trouble hiring enough therapists due to their terrible reputation and ****ty pay, and as a result, they keep getting in trouble with the CA Dept of Managed Care and with their own therapists. CA has laws regarding follow-up time and frequency of visits that they keep breaking.

 

[Sanman]

Yes. Kaiser's business plan apparently does not include time for charting or other documentation since that is not billable time, and they are having trouble hiring enough therapists due to their terrible reputation and ****ty pay, and as a result, they keep getting in trouble with the CA Dept of Managed Care and with their own therapists. CA has laws regarding follow-up time and frequency of visits that they keep breaking.

No different than the private equity run nursing home behavioral health companies I used to deal with often, except there was no union there. Cr@ppy jobs...

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Kaiser mental health workers could strike next week. What does that mean for patients?

Per that article, folks are seeing 10-18 pts/day. Welcome to the meat grinder.

For those confused about 18 pts/day. My bet is 25 min per patient with a 30 min lunch.

That's...inhuman

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Kaiser mental health workers could strike next week. What does that mean for patients?

Per that article, folks are seeing 10-18 pts/day. Welcome to the meat grinder.

For those confused about 18 pts/day. My bet is 25 min per patient with a 30 min lunch.

And probably caseloads of 200+, which means not even weekly or fortnightly appointments which is, de facto, beneath standard of care (which they are being forced to do).

 

[Sanman]

That's...inhuman

And probably caseloads of 200+, which means not even weekly or fortnightly appointments which is, de facto, beneath standard of care (which they are being forced to do).

Hey, hey, hey.....they promised affordable healthcare, not quality healthcare. Think of it as the McD's of mental health. Just without the free ketchup packets.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Is there specifics out there yet on what they are asking for in negotiations?

The only thing that I came across a few weeks back was something about them wanting a pension instead of a 401k. Historically didn't they give up a pension in So Cal KP for higher 401k match? Now they want to reverse that?

 

[msc545]

No different than the private equity run nursing home behavioral health companies I used to deal with often, except there was no union there. Cr@ppy jobs...

Horrible.

 

[msc545]

This is what you get when you have people with a specific Cluster B disorder running a company.

 

[smalltownpsych]

“The people that succeed in a system are the people who are most like that system.”

 

[msc545]

This is what you get when you have people with a specific Cluster B disorder running a company.

Given that Sociopaths are apparently running Kaiser, they are going to keep mistreating mental health staff and patients and breaking laws until it becomes unprofitable to do so.

They once offered me a large amount of money to do scab labor and participate in strikebreaking, and I am once again thankful that I turned them down.

 

[WisNeuro]

Given that Sociopaths are apparently running Kaiser, they are going to keep mistreating mental health staff and patients and breaking laws until it becomes unprofitable to do so.

They once offered me a large amount of money to do scab labor and participate in strikebreaking, and I am once again thankful that I turned them down.

Honestly, likely no one here likes Kaiser, but this near unhinged ranting makes me want to go and see how much they'll pay me for a locums position. We get it, but at this point you're starting to make Kaiser look like the rational actor.

 

[msc545]

Honestly, likely no one here likes Kaiser, but this near unhinged ranting makes me want to go and see how much they'll pay me for a locums position. We get it, but at this point you're starting to make Kaiser look like the rational actor.

Not really interested in your political or professional opinions ...

 

[WisNeuro]

Not really interested in your political or professional opinions ...

I am devastated.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Looking at Kaiser’s ridiculous profits and many lawsuits for failure to provide care, pre-auth shenanigans, etc. Objectively, Kaiser is a horrible organization that runs like a sweatshop for mental health.

 

[Sanman]

Looking at Kaiser’s ridiculous profits and many lawsuits for failure to provide care, pre-auth shenanigans, etc. Objectively, Kaiser is a horrible organization that runs like a sweatshop for mental health.

While don't disagree with the sentiment, they are hardly alone in this. I'd say it is par for the course in corporate healthcare.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Businesses gonna business.

 

[Sanman]

Businesses gonna business.

There is a reason that I don't often recommend being an employee for a large private company. That's why I took my ball and went to the VA/government. Or own your own business and don't be forced into unethical positions.

 

[msc545]

There is a reason that I don't often recommend being an employee for a large private company. That's why I took my ball and went to the VA/government. Or own your own business and don't be forced into unethical positions.

Kaiser Permanente mental health workers begin open-ended strike in Southern California​

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[msc545]

See: Kaiser Permanente mental health workers begin open-ended strike in Southern California

for more about the strike and what Kaiser has done and not done to provoke it.

 

[WisNeuro]

Looking at the union demands, they want 19+ hours of admin time/week, and more than an 18% raise. So, they want to work .5FTE and be paid 1.0FTE+ ? I'm all for fair conditions, but perhaps they should see how they'd do in private only working half-time jobs.

 

[Sanman]

Looking at the union demands, they want 19+ hours of admin time/week, and more than an 18% raise. So, they want to work .5FTE and be paid 1.0FTE+ ? I'm all for fair conditions, but perhaps they should see how they'd do in private only working half-time jobs.

19 is a bit absurd, but likely a bargaining chip. The raise seems fair. I think 30 patient hours and 10 admin is a good middle ground. However, 32 to 35/wk is less than mentioned in the previous article, I believe. That said 10-18 pts/day.

 

[Neuro_focus]

My friend is one of the psychologists striking - the union is demanding 7 hours of protected management time a week, not 19!

They’re asking for the exact same contract that Kaiser is already offering psychologists in Northern California. Nothing more nothing less.

Seems like a fair ask to me, but what do I know! 😂

 

[Stellar Mudd]

Given that Sociopaths are apparently running Kaiser, they are going to keep mistreating mental health staff and patients and breaking laws until it becomes unprofitable to do so.

They once offered me a large amount of money to do scab labor and participate in strikebreaking, and I am once again thankful that I turned them down.

How did they think they were gonna get away with scabs? Seems easy to be caught

 

[WisNeuro]

My friend is one of the psychologists striking - the union is demanding 7 hours of protected management time a week, not 19!

They’re asking for the exact same contract that Kaiser is already offering psychologists in Northern California. Nothing more nothing less.

Seems like a fair ask to me, but what do I know! 😂

Is this formally listed somewhere, all of the news sources (NBC, CBS, FOX, etc) are reporting much different numbers.

19 is a bit absurd, but likely a bargaining chip. The raise seems fair. I think 30 patient hours and 10 admin is a good middle ground. However, 32 to 35/wk is less than mentioned in the previous article, I believe. That said 10-18 pts/day.

I assume both sides are throwing out some wild numbers, so I'd be curious what the real figures are. But, given what I see commonly discussed on therapist reddit and other social media where people talk about "burnout" and 20-25 contact hours being "insanely high," the 19 hours of admin time would not surprise me as a real demand.

 

[niceman]

Nearly 2,400 mental health professionals at Kaiser Permanente will begin striking at 6 a.m. TODAY throughout Southern California - NUHW

The open-ended strike is a last resort for caregivers who have fought for years to make Kaiser fix a mental health system so broken that it was fined $50 million in 2023

home.nuhw.org

19 hours is what Kaiser claimed the union is asking for. The news sources also reported what the union is asking for (7 hours), but they put it at the end of their articles.

 

[Sanman]

There is a lot of noise in these articles, but I feel like the statement below explains the real issue here:

"Over the past year, 40 therapists have left their jobs working for Kaiser in Southern California and taken telehealth jobs for Kaiser in Northern California, where they are paid more, given more time for patient care duties and receive a pension."

 

[WisNeuro]

If all they are asking for is the same as Norther CA, that'd seem reasonable. I'd be interested in seeing the actual proposals, as the truth usually lies in the middle of press releases.

 

[Neuro_focus]

https://nuhw.org/wp-content/uploads/Debunking-Kaisers-outlandish-lies-2.pdf

My friend shared this PDF copy of the letter NUHW has sent out to elected officials in response to Kaiser’s statements.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

The comparison to other "therapists" is a strange one, although OT isn't a horrible comparison for a masters-level MH therapist. ST wouldn't be a bad comparison, either. But comparisons to radiation therapists and respiratory therapists isn't really apples-to-apples. I'm sure the union also understands it could be a matter of reimbursement for services provided; if they had access to numbers for what the providers were billing vs. what they were paid, that could go a long way.

The difference between what the union asked for in hours vs. what Kaiser said they asked for seems pretty damning.

RE: the pension, I think someone else up-thread mentioned that they stopped the pension at the providers' requests...? Personally, if they provide access to a 401k, I don't think the pension issue is huge (unless there's a substantial discrepancy in benefits and/or Kaiser has basically said the pension isn't fiscally viable to continue, so they've had to phase it out). But it's a negotiating chip, I get it.

 

[Sanman]

The comparison to other "therapists" is a strange one, although OT isn't a horrible comparison for a masters-level MH therapist. ST wouldn't be a bad comparison, either. But comparisons to radiation therapists and respiratory therapists isn't really apples-to-apples. I'm sure the union also understands it could be a matter of reimbursement for services provided; if they had access to numbers for what the providers were billing vs. what they were paid, that could go a long way.

The difference between what the union asked for in hours vs. what Kaiser said they asked for seems pretty damning.

RE: the pension, I think someone else up-thread mentioned that they stopped the pension at the providers' requests...? Personally, if they provide access to a 401k, I don't think the pension issue is huge (unless there's a substantial discrepancy in benefits and/or Kaiser has basically said the pension isn't fiscally viable to continue, so they've had to phase it out). But it's a negotiating chip, I get it.

Apparently it was stopped for new MH providers circa 2014. May have been lost in a previous union negotiation or given up to avoid cuts for current employees. Problem is that the new folks don't seem to agree. Reminds me of the autoworkers issues.

 

[msc545]

How did they think they were gonna get away with scabs? Seems easy to be caught

Scabs are not illegal if they are qualified and licensed as I am.

 

[Freud’sMommy]

The neuropsychologists in my circle that are familiar with Kaiser Permanente speak highly of them relative to other large healthcare systems in CA. Many work a day or two/week for Kaiser. What am I missing here?

 

[msc545]

The neuropsychologists in my circle that are familiar with Kaiser Permanente speak highly of them relative to other large healthcare systems in CA. Many work a day or two/week for Kaiser. What am I missing here?

They probably do not overbook the Neuropsychologists since the demand for that is not nearly as high as it is for just therapy. This means the neuro people have less to complain about. They severely overbook everyone else.

Also, the neuro exams get done in response to internal referrals. The therapy is in response to public demands for it. I know there are far fewer internal referrals from therapists and physicians than there are therapy referrals from the public.