Another reason not to apply to DO residencies

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dkwyler94

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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=153819

A program in Texas closed and so now it sounds like from this post, they are having to scramble to find somewhere to train.

I have heard of this happening multiple times.
FP program in Colorado Springs.
FP program in Denver, Colorado. The residents there ended up suing, as they were not helped in anyway to find another position and they had a lot of other issues where the AOA turned there backs on them.

I am not dealing the the DO match at all. I think people in general should really think long and hard before going to a DO program if they can get into an ACGME residency.
 
In fact, there are few people too concerned about this here at TCOM. We still go where our attendings are, it just means they are no longer across the street. Many are going to Plaza Medical Center--a few miles away, or JPS--the county hospital. The only people I have heard who are having a hard time are orthopedic surgery residents--but that is just hearsay.

True, it is a disruption. But it's not the doomsday scenario some would make out to be.

Maybe the AOA will start thinking a little more about its options now and stop blaming the lack of DO residencies on students going allopathic. The problem is that these are small hospitals usually and if they didn't become part of a larger network in the '90s when the trouble first started with too many hospitals...(remaining isolated to protect their "osteopathicness" I suppose)...then by now, a lot of them are SOL financially.
 
I think its just important to research the program...regardless of whether its a DO or MD program. I just came back from a DO residency where I had an interview this weekend and I was impressed with their facilities, and graduate placement. Doesn't hurt to check out the DO programs and you might be pleasantly surprised.
 
dkwyler94 said:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=153819

A program in Texas closed and so now it sounds like from this post, they are having to scramble to find somewhere to train.

I have heard of this happening multiple times.
FP program in Colorado Springs.
FP program in Denver, Colorado. The residents there ended up suing, as they were not helped in anyway to find another position and they had a lot of other issues where the AOA turned there backs on them.

I am not dealing the the DO match at all. I think people in general should really think long and hard before going to a DO program if they can get into an ACGME residency.

One of my friends matched into a DO EM program. Four motnhs after moving there, the program just shut down. Not sure if it was funding or accredidation, but all the residents had to fend for themselves. Now the EM program she is at now is apparently in trouble as well!

Q
 
For someone just starting in DO med school.

This info is interesting and pushes me more towards ACGME or Dual residency positions.
 
Do not do an osteopathic residency. Take it from someone who completed an allopathic residency. You are SERIOUSLY selling yourself short!
 
Senor_Dinero said:
Do not do an osteopathic residency. Take it from someone who completed an allopathic residency. You are SERIOUSLY selling yourself short!

Or you do research and be active in the persuit of your education. There are some great osteopathic residencies out there but you just have to dig for em.

Urology at Cook County, come on. You know the kind of crazy cases they see there.

Neurosurg at at Arrowhead. Hard core county head trauma and spine I am sure.

CCOM ER program sounds great, as does their Ortho program. Rotate at tons of Chicago hospitals.

There are tons of poopy ones too so be active in your research.
 
VentdependenT said:
Or do you research and be active in the persuit of your education. There are some great osteopathic residencies out there but you just have to dig for em.

Urology at Cook County, come on. You know the kind of crazy cases they see there.

Neurosurg at at Arrowhead. Hard core county head trauma and spine I am sure.

CCOM ER program sounds great, as does their Ortho program. Rotate at tons of Chicago hospitals.

There are plenty of poopy ones too so be active in your research.

TONS and TONS of great AOA residencies in Michigan from what I have heard and researched. Also, the most of any state I think.
 
I applied to only one AOA residency this year. I researched it and heard it was a decent program. I was planning to do a rotation there before I interviewed. I was invited for an interview Nov 12, and last week, they sent me an email saying that their program shut down, not taking new residents, not taking students for rotation. I am thankful that it shut down before I was accepted. I feel for those where were in the middle of their training. I'm honestly afraid of AOA residencies. I was rotation somewhere else this summer and saw an FP residency program collapse before my eyes. $$ seems to be the big issue here.

Question: How do you find out if a prog is dually accreditied. Is this info listing on the AOA website? I hate doing everything by word of mouth and calling individual programs.

Thanks.
 
I think that if you decide to apply to the MD match based only on one AOA program closing, you are seriously selling yourself short. ACGME programs close as well (Case Western Plastic Surgery, University of Tenn-Knoxville Peds, etc.). Research throughly any decision you make. Do not assume that just because it is an ACGME program, it is stable and better than an AOA program. Visit and/or rotate at every program you are interested in and then make your decision.
 
good discussion everyone--

--just wanted to direct participants of this thread to a couple of others which relate:

1> under the "does the AOA represent your views" - i have posted a resolution currently being considered by the AOA which would, among other things, require that at least 40% of students (average over 7 year period) enter AOA programs.

2> under the "should we have a joint match?" thread - this issue is being discussed.

i would appreciate your $0.02 on one or both of these threads.

thanks!

bl
 
Pikevillemedstudent said:
I think that if you decide to apply to the MD match based only on one AOA program closing, you are seriously selling yourself short. ACGME programs close as well (Case Western Plastic Surgery, University of Tenn-Knoxville Peds, etc.). Research throughly any decision you make. Do not assume that just because it is an ACGME program, it is stable and better than an AOA program. Visit and/or rotate at every program you are interested in and then make your decision.

Considering the relative poor ratio of the # of new DO grads to open AOA residency spots, these closings affect DO's much more seriously than a few ACGME programs closing affects MDs.
 
AwesomeO-DO said:
Considering the relative poor ratio of the # of new DO grads to open AOA residency spots, these closings affect DO's much more seriously than a few ACGME programs closing affects MDs.

especially given the expansion of # of DO graduates and # of DO schools.

facts from Brotherton SE, Rockey PH, Etzel SI. "US Graduate Medical Education, 2002-2003" JAMA 290.9.1197-1202:

in 1996: 1906 DO graduates and 2421 approved internships (1878 of these are funded)

in 2001: 2544 DO graduates and 2399 approved internships (1876 of these are funded)

the numbers speak volumes about why more DO graduates are going into ACGME programs
 
Since I was the person who posted the post that was referenced to in the first post, I thought I might comment a little on this as well.

From what I hear, the osteopathic hospitals in the Southwest seem quite unstable if not already closed. Three osteopathic hospitals in the north Texas area (where I am originally from) have closed during my lifetime. Now with Osteopathic Medical Center of Texas closed, I believe there are no more DO hospitals in Texas. Now I am in OKC, and I do believe that there are no more DO hospitals open here either. With the notable exception of Tulsa Regional Medical Center, with a nice choice of residency specialties to choose from. Although, past students of OSU-DO school say they talk about the hospital closing everyday, for whatever that is worth.

You know, anybody who went to DO school or decides to go will seemingly still encounter occasional difficulty in the process just being a DO-in addition to the rest of the challenges and stressfull aspects of graduating medical school, mulling over the periodic statement from student loans, obtaining a residency, surviving the residency, etc. Even if you say, hey "I am going into primary care-no problems here!" Good for you, but you still have to explain to some people why the hell you aren't an MD. Whatever, this may not bother you at all.

I am ok with it. In fact, I am honored with the title,"Doctor" at my program, with the reliable salary, benefits of being a resident. I also am in a now solid state university program, and anticipate a lifetime of hard work, learning, and even excellent future earnings. Being a American DO Anesthesiologist will do more for my quality of life than thousands of Americans or millions of people all over the world have or ever will have. Quality of life being doing something that I love, something that keeps my interest, helps people, providing an incredible income, career stablity, etc.

I say that no matter what school you get your MD or DO from, what residency you finish or where you do it, the key things are to graduate from school, complete a residency, and begin your life. Realize that this all means to an end, there are things more important such as the quality of your personal relationships, personal satisfaction from what you do, etc.

I completely agree with some of the previous posts. It is your responsibility and no one elses to obtain a solid residency. Now, more than ever, the MD community opens its arms to us, so take advantage of it! Now I hear people openly state they prefer American DOs to many FMGs/IMGs. When you look at a residency, yeah you may have geographical preferences, yes you may like the PD or senior residents a lot. I would say the first question to ask yourself, "Is this program viable and am I willing to bet that it will be around for me?" If you aren't convinced, get as far away as possible from it!

Some people take positions for many reasons, and some are fooled unknowingly. I have seen it at OMCT myself'--"hey, you want to come here? Yeah, we can get you in here.." Tempting, I must say, but it almost smacks of slippery and shady dealings to me. And now seeing my good friends go through sheer hell, makes me very grateful for my strong program. On your interviews, trust your gut feelings!! If you feel uneasy about the hospital, and/or if you see attendings and residents leaving in droves, take the hint!

In defense of osteopathic programs, the programs in the north, eg michigan, ohio, illinois, sound like strong viable programs. Sometimes it seems the bigger the hospital, the more stable residency seems. Most hospitals that seem to close are these small community hospitals. With something as important as your residency, you want something you can have more faith in. My two cents!
 
AwesomeO-DO said:
Considering the relative poor ratio of the # of new DO grads to open AOA residency spots, these closings affect DO's much more seriously than a few ACGME programs closing affects MDs.

True but the discussion was on whether to choose the MD or DO match based on DO programs closing. MD programs closing affect DO's if they are in that program. I think it is really foolish to disregard any program without making an informed decision regardless of AOA or ACGME accreditation. MD or DO, choose the best program for you while taking EVERYTHING into consideration.
 
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