Another salary thread....oh no!!!

[hyperalgesia]

350k or so mid-career or starting? I've seen a number of starting salaries at like 350-400k +. Should those be taken as something fishy is going on?

I haven't noticed much difference in earning/stage of career other than it's risky to start someone at a very high salary without witnessing how productive they are. Salary is based on productivity and demand. If you're willing to go where the demand is, that salary seems perfectly reasonable. But I would always be skeptical, more so in San Diego than in Missouri.

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[Dr. Ice]

Not very easy to get to 350k in northeast unless hospital based or regenerative cash practice or out of network

 

[Ducttape]

the target audience of MGMA is not us, but rather hospital admin.

For decades, MGMA has produced robust reports using the largest data sets in the industry to help practice administrators like you make informed business decisions.

It's challenging to juggle physician compensation plans, managing staff levels, and increasing revenue - all while aiming to cut costs.

bold print by me.

they profess to accept information from a variety of practices.

 

[DrCommonSense]

Yeah I thought 600k as median seemed a bit high...

The "total compensation" numbers are far lower than the collection numbers from that MGMA data.

Which is the actual salary the physician making including benefits?

 

[NOSfan]

......but I'm told it may allow me to get recompensation up to my current salary, if I work harder. Lol!

From the data you indicate, initial impression is your wRVU production is probably P90 or above. Your compensation is nowhere near consummate to this.

Options are to hire professional ASAP to help you negotiate or time to find a new practice.......sorry to say, but suspect the latter may be the outcome.

 

[jsaul]

I have never really looked at MGMA numbers nor do I understand RVUs. call me a simpleton but I don't understand all these new guys talking about RVU and multipliers when figuring what their salary is going to be. I only understand revenue coming into the practice and money going out to pay for expenses of the practice. What is left over is my take home. Its been like that for nearly 10 years now

As far as MGMA numbers for physician salary, are they including all forms of income--i.e ancillary income from what ever sources- ownership in surgery center, etc

 

[NOSfan]

I have never really looked at MGMA numbers nor do I understand RVUs. I only understand revenue coming into the practice and revenue going out. What is left over is my take home.

As far as MGMA numbers for physician salary, are they including all forms of income--i.e ancillary income from what ever sources- ownership in surgery center, etc

RVU has three components: The Basics of Making RVUs Work for Your Medical Practice | Physicians Practice

1. wRVU - physician work
2. Practice expenses
3. Malpractice expense

MGMA data is representative of a variety of practice types including:

• Physician-owned, hospital-owned and academic practices
• Physician and nonphysician provider compensation and productivity
• Providers from across the country split regionally and by state (where data is available)
• Providers newly hired into the practice (less than 1 year of experience) and established providers (more than 18 years of experience)
• Providers from a range of practice sizes from small practices consisting of 4 or fewer physicians up through large practices consisting of 151 or more physicians
• Data on 140 physician specialties and subspecialties and 60 nonphysician provider specialties and subspecialties
• Provider compensation information for Total Compensation, Bonus/Incentive Compensation, Retirement Benefits, On-Call Compensation, Medical Directorship Compensation
• Additional provider benefits including Hours Worked per Week, Hours Worked per Year, Weeks of Vacation

 

[DrCommonSense]

RVU has three components: The Basics of Making RVUs Work for Your Medical Practice | Physicians Practice

1. wRVU - physician work
2. Practice expenses
3. Malpractice expense

MGMA data is representative of a variety of practice types including:

• Physician-owned, hospital-owned and academic practices
• Physician and nonphysician provider compensation and productivity
• Providers from across the country split regionally and by state (where data is available)
• Providers newly hired into the practice (less than 1 year of experience) and established providers (more than 18 years of experience)
• Providers from a range of practice sizes from small practices consisting of 4 or fewer physicians up through large practices consisting of 151 or more physicians
• Data on 140 physician specialties and subspecialties and 60 nonphysician provider specialties and subspecialties
• Provider compensation information for Total Compensation, Bonus/Incentive Compensation, Retirement Benefits, On-Call Compensation, Medical Directorship Compensation
• Additional provider benefits including Hours Worked per Week, Hours Worked per Year, Weeks of Vacation

What is the actual compensation for at 50% percentile from the MGMA numbers? Is it 471K or 600K? It says "total compensation" is median 471K (which includes benefits) in bold on the excel but there is also "collections" that appear to be around 600K for median. Which is it?

 

[Blitz2006]

What is the actual compensation for at 50% percentile from the MGMA numbers? Is it 471K or 600K? It says "total compensation" is median 471K (which includes benefits) in bold on the excel but there is also "collections" that appear to be around 600K for median. Which is it?

Stupid question time:

what is difference between "total compensation" and "collections"? Is the difference the overhead costs? benefits?

 

[drusso]

I only understand revenue coming into the practice and revenue going out tp pay for expenses of the practice. What is left over is my take home. Its been like that for nearly 10 years now.

Amen, stay close to the money. I hear my hospital-employed friends wring their hands and complain about RVU's, productivity, etc but they are like fish swimming up stream. They have no leverage over their administrators or employees to do things that would increase their productivity. And, there are competing institutional commitments: IR does the kyphos, ortho won't sign off on you doing PRP, etc. It seems that direct care and fee-for-service are far simpler ways to run a business.

 

[Pes anserine]

Amen, stay close to the money. I hear my hospital-employed friends wring their hands and complain about RVU's, productivity, etc but they are like fish swimming up stream. They have no leverage over their administrators or employees to do things that would increase their productivity. And, there are competing institutional commitments: IR does the kyphos, ortho won't sign off on you doing PRP, etc. It seems that direct care and fee-for-service are far simpler ways to run a business.

Well PRP is not FDA approved, so I don't think Ortho can really sign off on that even if they wanted to in terms of hospital based. Plenty of private practices though do cash based PRP.

I guess it's hard for me to understand what an avg salary for pain practitioners is mid-career. some people tell you in the 400k range, others say it's in the million + range. So while I understand that there are outliers on both sides of the equation it would be helpful to know what an avg, take home pay is minus bennies to kind of compare and contrast different job opportunities.

 

[cowboydoc]

I have never really looked at MGMA numbers nor do I understand RVUs. call me a simpleton but I don't understand all these new guys talking about RVU and multipliers when figuring what their salary is going to be. I only understand revenue coming into the practice and revenue going out tp pay for expenses of the practice. What is left over is my take home. Its been like that for nearly 10 years now

As far as MGMA numbers for physician salary, are they including all forms of income--i.e ancillary income from what ever sources- ownership in surgery center, etc

It's for hospital admin's use, mostly reported by them, for them, supposed to be a smattering of PP and others, but that's a less reliable self-report.

It's total compensation to the physician from the hospital, and most docs wouldn't have ownership in ASC in that model. I don't think ASC ownership would be included. Likewise, the hospital takes all revenue from ancillaries.

Stupid question time:

what is difference between "total compensation" and "collections"? Is the difference the overhead costs? benefits?

The total compensation is what the physician receives. The collections is what the system brings in. The difference is the hospital's profit (ignoring all the money they make off ancillaries)

 

[DrCommonSense]

It's for hospital admin's use, mostly reported by them, for them, supposed to be a smattering of PP and others, but that's a less reliable self-report.

It's total compensation to the physician from the hospital, and most docs wouldn't have ownership in ASC in that model. I don't think ASC ownership would be included. Likewise, the hospital takes all revenue from ancillaries.



The total compensation is what the physician receives. The collections is what the system brings in. The difference is the hospital's profit (ignoring all the money they make off ancillaries)

So are you saying that the PP people make the "collections" number after expenses (600K median) vs 471K total compensation for the hospital based physicians by that MGMA numbers?

 

[NOSfan]

So are you saying that the PP people make the "collections" number after expenses (600K median) vs 471K total compensation for the hospital based physicians by that MGMA numbers?

Services are billed for and a certain percentage is typically collected = Collections. This is before any expenditure (salary, overhead, etc.)
Total compensation = all monies + benefits + 401k, etc. that one receives

 

[DrCommonSense]

Services are billed for and a certain percentage is typically collected = Collections. This is before any expenditure (salary, overhead, etc.)
Total compensation = all monies + benefits + 401k, etc. that one receives

I still don't get that answer. If a physician "collects" approximately 1M in revenue (90th percentile), how is the total compensation at 723K or so?

Overhead is usually at least 50% of collections, so if the collections are 1M, his/her total comp should be 500K or so unless overhead is ridiculously low.

 

[Pes anserine]

I still don't get that answer. If a physician "collects" approximately 1M in revenue (90th percentile), how is the total compensation at 723K or so?

Overhead is usually at least 50% of collections, so if the collections are 1M, his/her total comp should be 500K or so unless overhead is ridiculously low.

Collections are the total monies that ultimately are obtained by a practice, hospital, etc. So say your employer bills 1 million dollars for a trigger point injection. The insurance pays them $500k. That's the collection. say the physician is employed by the hospital and say the hospital pays the physician 250k in salary and another $50k in bennies. Physicians total compensation is $300k. Hospital pockets $200k of the monies collected.

 

[DrCommonSense]

Collections are the total monies that ultimately are obtained by a practice, hospital, etc. So say your employer bills 1 million dollars for a trigger point injection. The insurance pays them $500k. That's the collection. say the physician is employed by the hospital and say the hospital pays the physician 250k in salary and another $50k in bennies. Physicians total compensation is $300k. Hospital pockets $200k of the monies collected.

I get the collections issue that is the total amount collected for services.

My main questions include:

A) Are collections just professional fees or global fees (professional + facility fee)? Im assuming this is professional fees without a global fee.

If its just professional fees, then how do we tell the revenues for doctors in private practice that obtain profits from ASC fees or office based docs that obtain global fees? How can we minus this number from the overhead to determine the physicians profits after costs?

B) According to the MGMA numbers, 90th percentile for collections is $1,023,000 but total compensation is listed as $723,478.

The difference between collections- total compensation is approximately 300K which would be 300K/1.023K= 30% of total for overhead/money taken out from collections.

Im assuming that the hospital takes 30% of the professional fees on average and the total facility fees for their profit from doctors that work for hospitals?


So these numbers dont tell the salaries of private practice ASC owners, office owners that obtain global fees, etc? Where do we get those numbers? This also doesn't give any information about ancillaries for private practice physicians.

 

[Pes anserine]

I get the collections issue that is the total amount collected for services.

My main questions include:

A) Are collections just professional fees or global fees (professional + facility fee)? Im assuming this is professional fees without a global fee.

If its just professional fees, then how do we tell the revenues for doctors in private practice that obtain profits from ASC fees or office based docs that obtain global fees? How can we minus this number from the overhead to determine the physicians profits after costs?

B) According to the MGMA numbers, 90th percentile for collections is $1,023,000 but total compensation is listed as $723,478.

The difference between collections- total compensation is approximately 300K which would be 300K/1.023K= 30% of total for overhead/money taken out from collections.

Im assuming that the hospital takes 30% of the professional fees on average and the total facility fees for their profit from doctors that work for hospitals?


So these numbers dont tell the salaries of private practice ASC owners, office owners that obtain global fees, etc? Where do we get those numbers? This also doesn't give any information about ancillaries for private practice physicians.

Collections are all monies that are brought in - all fees, regardless of where they come from. ASC, PT, imaging, etc. Collections is the gross, it does not account for overhead, etc. So if you are a hospital employeed physician, you will only get x amount of salary and the hospital will pocket all the other monies outside of your salary and any overhead they have. So in this scenario, if they collect 1 million dollars from insurance, ASC, therapy, imaging, and pay you 300k, and say their overhead is 200k, then they will make 500k. You still only make 300k. If you are a private practice physician, you collect 1 million from everything, and take out any overhead - paying your rent, your staff, your supplies, etc. etc., and then whatever is left is divided by the partners/employees. So if you and Dr. x are partners, you collect 1 million from everything (procedures, imaging, therapy, etc etc), and say you have have 400k in expenses, then you divide the other 600k between the two of you.

 

[DrCommonSense]

Collections are all monies that are brought in - all fees, regardless of where they come from. ASC, PT, imaging, etc. Collections is the gross, it does not account for overhead, etc. So if you are a hospital employeed physician, you will only get x amount of salary and the hospital will pocket all the other monies outside of your salary and any overhead they have. So in this scenario, if they collect 1 million dollars from insurance, ASC, therapy, imaging, and pay you 300k, and say their overhead is 200k, then they will make 500k. You still only make 300k. If you are a private practice physician, you collect 1 million from everything, and take out any overhead - paying your rent, your staff, your supplies, etc. etc., and then whatever is left is divided by the partners/employees. So if you and Dr. x are partners, you collect 1 million from everything (procedures, imaging, therapy, etc etc), and say you have have 400k in expenses, then you divide the other 600k between the two of you.

The collections numbers seem very low if ancillaries, global fees, etc are included at just 1 million for 90th percentile. With overhead being 50+ percent, the 90th percentile of salary would have to be less than 500K total compensation for pain physicians in private practice (very unlikely).

Im figuring these MGMA numbers are mostly just professional fees that hospital based pain physicians average in terms of collections and total compensation is the amount they are paid in total (benefits, salary, etc). Sounds like the hospital takes 30% of the professional fees plus all the facility fees, ancillaries, etc that the hospital physician generates.

 

[FitDoc]

These surveys include pain docs that use the "narcs for procs" model and the "ancillaries for pts" model and the "JD-chiro-MD" model, etc, etc. Most of the high earners I know who are legit pain docs (unlike above) are rural and hospital employed. Among SDN pain docs, I think our avg is probably 350 or so before benefits. You can thank me for bringing the average down.

I'm aware of one other colleague taking in greater than $500k at an academic institution on rvu's with about 70 encounters per week. And yet another in a hospital setting on rvu's in excess of $400k.

 

[MaximusD]

That's yet to be determined, but I'm told it may allow me to get recompensation up to my current salary, if I work harder. Lol!

Hire a lawyer to negotiate for you. They can get ****ed for this little stunt.

 

[FitDoc]

Hire a lawyer to negotiate for you. They can get ****ed for this little stunt.

Thank you. In the works.

 

[DrCommonSense]

Collections are all monies that are brought in - all fees, regardless of where they come from. ASC, PT, imaging, etc. Collections is the gross, it does not account for overhead, etc. So if you are a hospital employeed physician, you will only get x amount of salary and the hospital will pocket all the other monies outside of your salary and any overhead they have. So in this scenario, if they collect 1 million dollars from insurance, ASC, therapy, imaging, and pay you 300k, and say their overhead is 200k, then they will make 500k. You still only make 300k. If you are a private practice physician, you collect 1 million from everything, and take out any overhead - paying your rent, your staff, your supplies, etc. etc., and then whatever is left is divided by the partners/employees. So if you and Dr. x are partners, you collect 1 million from everything (procedures, imaging, therapy, etc etc), and say you have have 400k in expenses, then you divide the other 600k between the two of you.

Also looking at the MGMA numbers again. at the 25th percentile the total compensation is actually greater than the collections line. So I am further unsatisfied with this answer being correct. How could the comp being higher than the collections under that logic?

 

[BobBarker]

The numbers in a way aren’t related at all. There are two groups of numbers. Where the 25th percentile for one has actually nothing to do with the other. There is a correlation in this situation but it isn’t 100%. Hard to explain online.

 

[DrCommonSense]

The numbers in a way aren’t related at all. There are two groups of numbers. Where the 25th percentile for one has actually nothing to do with the other. There is a correlation in this situation but it isn’t 100%. Hard to explain online.

Yes please do explain further because I can't make anything out of this nonsense.

Collections, Total Comp, etc. Is this for only professional fees, global fees, ancillaries, etc for "collections"?

Is the total comp that of hospital employed physicians or all private practice pain physicians that are interventional?

 

[DOctorJay]

Bob is correct. I've also been told that 75th percentile production doesn't necessarily equate to 75th percentile earnings so keep that in mind as well.


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[BobBarker]

Collections is total collections from physician fees. It has nothing to do with ancillaries or facility fees.
Compensation is total compensation including benefits.

 

[cowboydoc]

Yes please do explain further because I can't make anything out of this nonsense.

Collections, Total Comp, etc. Is this for only professional fees, global fees, ancillaries, etc for "collections"?

Is the total comp that of hospital employed physicians or all private practice pain physicians that are interventional?

I'm assuming you're in PP. The world of hospital systems do accounting differently. (Read: funny math) A new doc is hired, collects less in professional fees than guaranteed salary plus Bennies...it's an "investment" for the system. Fast forward 5 years and a doc is still in the 25th percentile for production, pro collections still less than total compensation, but system may have no issue keeping them, as the ancillaries keep it from being a "loss."

 

[DrCommonSense]

I'm assuming you're in PP. The world of hospital systems do accounting differently. (Read: funny math) A new doc is hired, collects less in professional fees than guaranteed salary plus Bennies...it's an "investment" for the system. Fast forward 5 years and a doc is still in the 25th percentile for production, pro collections still less than total compensation, but system may have no issue keeping them, as the ancillaries keep it from being a "loss."

Ahh got it. That makes sense.

Where can we find MGMA numbers for private practice physicians? How do the salaries for private compare with hospital based?

Im assuming its about the same due to the hospital wanting to be competitive to retain the physician.

 

[Ducttape]

the MGMA incorporates anyone who wants to submit data, btw. private practice is included.

to cowboydoc's post - the other thing that could happen is that the hospital system fires the doc who is only doing 25th percentile because new grads are cheaper, gullible, and accessible.

 

[drusso]

I'm assuming you're in PP. The world of hospital systems do accounting differently. (Read: funny math) A new doc is hired, collects less in professional fees than guaranteed salary plus Bennies...it's an "investment" for the system. Fast forward 5 years and a doc is still in the 25th percentile for production, pro collections still less than total compensation, but system may have no issue keeping them, as the ancillaries keep it from being a "loss."

Why is it fair for a hospital to subsidize an inefficient MD? Isn't this why a lot of PP docs think that hospital-employed MD's couldn't "make it" in situations where "funny math" doesn't apply?

 

[SSdoc33]

Why is it fair for a hospital to subsidize an inefficient MD? Isn't this why a lot of PP docs think that hospital-employed MD's couldn't "make it" in situations where "funny math" doesn't apply?

not sure whether your question was rhetorical or not. you do like to post these existential, vague, pro-private practice musings. (i wonder whether.......)

regardless, even an inefficient pain doc is most likely making the hospital some money with the facility fees and SOS differential. the subsidization goes to docs like endocrinology, ID, path, maybe ER or cards.

 

[drusso]

not sure whether your question was rhetorical or not. you do like to post these existential, vague, pro-private practice musings. (i wonder whether.......)

regardless, even an inefficient pain doc is most likely making the hospital some money with the facility fees and SOS differential. the subsidization goes to docs like endocrinology, ID, path, maybe ER or cards.

Ah, systemic reimbursement arbitrage...subsidizing one person's inefficiency is someone else's own reward...

Focus On Health Coverage Misses The Point

"To start reversing these major drivers behind our exorbitant health care costs, lawmakers should put a stop to facility fees, mandate that insurers -- including Medicare -- pay all doctors the same amount for the same procedures regardless of whether they are independent or employed by hospitals, enforce antitrust laws so health care monopolies cannot form and squash competition, and finally, require true price transparency, so patients can shop and compare prices and quality when choosing their health care services."

Healthcare Reform Creates Provider Monopolies | The Lund Report

"Thus, a key driver of consolidation has been “reimbursement arbitrage--” schemes to extract higher payment for services that could be delivered in lower cost or less resource-intensive settings. We’ve seen many, many times that when independent physician practices are acquired by hospitals, three things happen: Prices go up after the acquisition, total spending goes up, and referral patterns change. Hospitals pay the physicians and their staff the same salaries, but charge more for these services in their Hospital Outpatient Departments (HOPD’s), and pick up this additional revenue without adding value."

 

[cowboydoc]

Why is it fair for a hospital to subsidize an inefficient MD? Isn't this why a lot of PP docs think that hospital-employed MD's couldn't "make it" in situations where "funny math" doesn't apply?

It's not fair, but it doesn't mean employed docs couldn't make it in PP. If your production doesn't cover expenses, you'd be sunk, but the guys cranking out 13000 rvus would likely be doing just fine in PP, as long as they don't have horrible "business sense."

Completely agree with your point, but the employed docs aren't the bad guys. The bottom third world be in trouble with the plan above, but the rest would be fine, patients would be better off, and costs would go down.

 

[strike5858]

A question for the group. I am a fellow in negotiations for a private practice job associated with a sports medicine/family practice group. The group has never had a pain physician before and they proposed that my annual salary be a percentage of my total collections after my first year( my first year would be a guaranteed salary). It seems like a honest group who recommended that I speak with my mentors to get an idea of how much my overhead would be. What is a realistic estimate of overhead(percentage wise) for a practice assuming that all my procedures would be done at a ASC so I would not need to pay for asc staff or equipment/supplies for the procedures based on your experiences?

 

[Dr. Ice]

A question for the group. I am a fellow in negotiations for a private practice job associated with a sports medicine/family practice group. The group has never had a pain physician before and they proposed that my annual salary be a percentage of my total collections after my first year( my first year would be a guaranteed salary). It seems like a honest group who recommended that I speak with my mentors to get an idea of how much my overhead would be. What is a realistic estimate of overhead(percentage wise) for a practice assuming that all my procedures would be done at a ASC so I would not need to pay for asc staff or equipment/supplies for the procedures based on your experiences?

Are you going to be able to get shares in this asc?

 

[clubdeac]

A question for the group. I am a fellow in negotiations for a private practice job associated with a sports medicine/family practice group. The group has never had a pain physician before and they proposed that my annual salary be a percentage of my total collections after my first year( my first year would be a guaranteed salary). It seems like a honest group who recommended that I speak with my mentors to get an idea of how much my overhead would be. What is a realistic estimate of overhead(percentage wise) for a practice assuming that all my procedures would be done at a ASC so I would not need to pay for asc staff or equipment/supplies for the procedures based on your experiences?

If you are doing most all of your procedures at the ASC then your office overhead should be no different than the overhead for one of their MSK/sports guys. You'll likely be doing effectively the same thing as them in clinic

 

[NOSfan]

Also looking at the MGMA numbers again. at the 25th percentile the total compensation is actually greater than the collections line. So I am further unsatisfied with this answer being correct. How could the comp being higher than the collections under that logic?

Please see the attached monograph from Merritt Hawkins.

Regards

 

[strike5858]

Are you going to be able to get shares in this asc?

Yes, they brought that up as a realistic possibility. Obviously I have to go in there and show how productive I can be but it sounds like partnership should be attainable within the first year.

 

[pastafan]

Yes, they brought that up as a realistic possibility. Obviously I have to go in there and show how productive I can be but it sounds like partnership should be attainable within the first year.

Possibilities, as can partnership, can magically disappear if they are not contract guarantees.

 

[Dr. Ice]

A question for the group. I am a fellow in negotiations for a private practice job associated with a sports medicine/family practice group. The group has never had a pain physician before and they proposed that my annual salary be a percentage of my total collections after my first year( my first year would be a guaranteed salary). It seems like a honest group who recommended that I speak with my mentors to get an idea of how much my overhead would be. What is a realistic estimate of overhead(percentage wise) for a practice assuming that all my procedures would be done at a ASC so I would not need to pay for asc staff or equipment/supplies for the procedures based on your experiences?[/QUOTE

You need to iron on what the "possibilities" mean. Who owns the asc you will be working at? Is it multispecialty? How are you going to get block time there? Are they going to give you block time at odd hours when you would otherwise be seeing patients in the office? Sometimes the owners of the asc will make false promises about shareholder status to get your volume and then change the deal after 1-2 years.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Yes, they brought that up as a realistic possibility. Obviously I have to go in there and show how productive I can be but it sounds like partnership should be attainable within the first year.

It's ok to hope for this but be prepared for the worst in people when it comes to business/money. Look at your non-compete. Make sure you have a plan b if things go sideways.

 

[strike5858]

You need to iron on what the "possibilities" mean. Who owns the asc you will be working at? Is it multispecialty? How are you going to get block time there? Are they going to give you block time at odd hours when you would otherwise be seeing patients in the office? Sometimes the owners of the asc will make false promises about shareholder status to get your volume and then change the deal after 1-2 years.

It is a multispecialty asc with owners who are separate from the group I would join.
I think it might not be the best move for me coming straight out of fellowship to push for guaranteed ownership in the asc. I have no problem with "proving my worth". With that being said, the group I will be working for has close ties to the ownership group of the asc. It's a fairly new asc that is trying to build up volume. I have no obligation to do my procedures there. My group would be open to me doing my procedures in office (we would have to get the equipment) or me even taking my procedures to the local hospital.

What was presented to me was that if I can come in build good procedural volume that they would give me the opportunity to "buy into" the asc. The example I was given was : let's say I bring in 1 million (just making this up) to the asc in a year. And the other owners bring in a total of 3 million. Since I'm bringing in 25% of the income between us, they would allow me to buy in no more than 25% of the asc.They follow this same prinicipal with each partner to keep things fair amongst each other.

Block time shouldn't be an issue as it is a fairly new asc and they are trying to build volume. Hence having a pain guy would make sense for them. They are also willing to buy the equipment I would need. (they already have a c-arm and ultrasound)

Thanks for the insite everyone. I know that things may not always be as they seem and i definitely need to do my due diligence. What is to my advantage is that the community I am going to is not the most desirable area and thus has a hard time recruiting surgeons/ pain docs. No pain doctor in a 300000 person area. I figure even if the asc owners fail to follow through with there end of the deal, I have a two year guaranteed salary at a highly competitive rate and no do not compete clause. I can just go out on my own or convince my group to buy/rent my procedure equipment.

 

[pastafan]

With no do not compete this is sounding like a good opportunity. I would check into whether percentage ownership in ASC is proportional to volume that you bring to ASC is a Stark violation.

 

[swamprat]

Bumping this thread: Northeast region - fresh out of fellowship. Partnership track looking at starting salaries between 250-275K with some type of production incentive after you bill X amount. Full benefits. What do you all think? I really have nothing to compare it to. Also what do you think a new attending fresh out of fellowship is likely to bill within reason in their first year given they are getting fed some patients.

 

[Dr. Ice]

Bumping this thread: Northeast region - fresh out of fellowship. Partnership track looking at starting salaries between 250-275K with some type of production incentive after you bill X amount. Full benefits. What do you all think? I really have nothing to compare it to. Also what do you think a new attending fresh out of fellowship is likely to bill within reason in their first year given they are getting fed some patients.

What kind of practice? Surgical or non surgical? How many other like you in the practice? Do you offer anything they don't if other interventionalists already there? Where are your procedures being done? 250-275 draw for northeast not bad depending on what bonus formula is. Don't forget many practices charge a direct expense to you for monies allocated for healthcare, 401k, cme, etc. That may be on top of or inclusive of overhead.

 

[soccrwz]

What would a starting salary for a new Pain fellowship trained anesthesia grad expect to receive in Dallas Texas? I see a vast range online when I looked. Thanks for your help!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[lonelobo]

150K and a new pair of boots

 

[sg2506]

Does anyone have MGMA compensation pdf. I have been unable to find it and don't wanna pay for it.

 

[FitDoc]

From the OP. Numbers are in.

$400k base.

$80/wrvu (6000-7400rvu).
$100/wrvu (>7400rvu).

I did >7800 wrvu last year.