Another 'what are my chances' post...

[trakaszcie]

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I'll attempt my very best to be short and sweet! I'll be 30 in July, and my goal right now is to be in dental school within the next 5 years. Here's a little more background about me:

Throughout my undergraduate career at Ohio State, I worked at UPS [and often one or two other jobs]. I did not get an opportunity to volunteer my time, do shadowing, or focus on my studying how I wish I could have. Thus, I feel completely held back. I have approximately $38,000 in undergraduate student loans, therefore maxing out my loan potential for undergraduate coursework. At the beginning of 2011, I was enrolled at Columbus State for the Dental Hygiene program. Instead, I was notified of reaching the loan maximum, and my car also needed repairs. In order to continue to work, I had to repair my car, therefore putting school on the back burner. [This was prior to deciding to do EFDA].

After graduating from Ohio State with a Bachelors in Biology, I immersed myself into the dental field, learning all I could while hoping to be trained internally and move up. Currently, I am a practicing EFDA and I love doing what I do now. However, I cannot give up on the original dream to become a dentist.

My hope is to find a solution to my below-average undergraduate GPA of 2.95. In order to raise my GPA to be competitive locally, I would basically need to do another Bachelors at nearly perfect grades. Since I must work full-time to pay off my current debt, I do not see this option as beneficial. I am not opposed to moving for dental school, and I am open to obtaining a Masters Degree. However, I am worried that writing papers for 1-2 years may exhaust me, and contribute to atrophying my skills. I would like my course of study to stay close to the dental field, but there are not any programs I can find that would allow for this. I also do not find this a cost or time-effective option.

Do you think, based on my grades, that if I did fantastic on the DAT and tried applying to some schools with lower GPA averages that I may have a chance? I have previously called the OSU College of Dentistry, only to be told that I would not even get an interview with my GPA. I do not accept this answer and I will not give up!! I have also been told that it can depend on who you know. My GPA is FAR from competitive at OSU, but my drive, desire, and further understanding of the dental field makes me an exceptional candidate for dental school. I have also heard a little bit about Non-traditional Student status; would this apply to me? And where could I get more info about going this route?


Any suggestions or ideas you may have would be greatly appreciated! I have even spoke with the U. S. Air Force and the U. S. Army. Both of those are willing to help if I enlist [highly undesirable!]. However, with a GPA of 3.3 or 3.1 respectively, I could enter as an Officer. If I was going to boost my GPA that much, I'd rather just go to any dental school I could get into, rather than join the armed forces! I do feel that I may have exhausted my options! I REFUSE to give up. Dentistry is my passion; I cannot imagine doing anything else! The thought of having to give up makes my heart hurt.

I am sorry to make this so full of questions, but I figured you would be an excellent resource! What would you recommend?

Thank you for your time,
Tracie

 

[dentalWorks]

I'll attempt my very best to be short and sweet! I'll be 30 in July, and my goal right now is to be in dental school within the next 5 years. Here's a little more background about me:

Throughout my undergraduate career at Ohio State, I worked at UPS [and often one or two other jobs]. I did not get an opportunity to volunteer my time, do shadowing, or focus on my studying how I wish I could have. Thus, I feel completely held back. I have approximately $38,000 in undergraduate student loans, therefore maxing out my loan potential for undergraduate coursework. At the beginning of 2011, I was enrolled at Columbus State for the Dental Hygiene program. Instead, I was notified of reaching the loan maximum, and my car also needed repairs. In order to continue to work, I had to repair my car, therefore putting school on the back burner. [This was prior to deciding to do EFDA].

After graduating from Ohio State with a Bachelors in Biology, I immersed myself into the dental field, learning all I could while hoping to be trained internally and move up. Currently, I am a practicing EFDA and I love doing what I do now. However, I cannot give up on the original dream to become a dentist.

My hope is to find a solution to my below-average undergraduate GPA of 2.95. In order to raise my GPA to be competitive locally, I would basically need to do another Bachelors at nearly perfect grades. Since I must work full-time to pay off my current debt, I do not see this option as beneficial. I am not opposed to moving for dental school, and I am open to obtaining a Masters Degree. However, I am worried that writing papers for 1-2 years may exhaust me, and contribute to atrophying my skills. I would like my course of study to stay close to the dental field, but there are not any programs I can find that would allow for this. I also do not find this a cost or time-effective option.

Do you think, based on my grades, that if I did fantastic on the DAT and tried applying to some schools with lower GPA averages that I may have a chance? I have previously called the OSU College of Dentistry, only to be told that I would not even get an interview with my GPA. I do not accept this answer and I will not give up!! I have also been told that it can depend on who you know. My GPA is FAR from competitive at OSU, but my drive, desire, and further understanding of the dental field makes me an exceptional candidate for dental school. I have also heard a little bit about Non-traditional Student status; would this apply to me? And where could I get more info about going this route?


Any suggestions or ideas you may have would be greatly appreciated! I have even spoke with the U. S. Air Force and the U. S. Army. Both of those are willing to help if I enlist [highly undesirable!]. However, with a GPA of 3.3 or 3.1 respectively, I could enter as an Officer. If I was going to boost my GPA that much, I'd rather just go to any dental school I could get into, rather than join the armed forces! I do feel that I may have exhausted my options! I REFUSE to give up. Dentistry is my passion; I cannot imagine doing anything else! The thought of having to give up makes my heart hurt.

I am sorry to make this so full of questions, but I figured you would be an excellent resource! What would you recommend?

Thank you for your time,
Tracie

we have similar backgrounds.

I too graduated undergrad with 3.0 GPA, and I did exactly what your suggesting to do, completed a 56 (or 58 ~ forgot) post-bacc credits with perfect 4.0.... It only brought up my GPA to 3.3, but the science and BCP jumped to 3.6 and 3.9..... I was considered competitive because of the big GPA upward trend (they really like that).

Unfortunately, even stellar DAT performance doesn't (usually) overshadow a sub-par GPA. IMO, you need post-bacc and decent DAT (20+s)

 

[nikond600]

I admire your determination but if I were on your shoes, I would choose Dental Hygienist instead of Dental School. If you totally concentrate on studying for the next 2 years or so and get a 4.0 GPA on whatever you're studying and a 20+ DAT, then yes, you'll have a chance. However, I don't see how you can achieve that goal while working full time. Some people will say "as long as you try hard enough, you'll get it". Yes, you can give it a try, but keep in mind that doing well at school requires time, money, and determination. You're lacking the first two.

 

[Hawkteeth]

Biomedical science masters degrees include classes you will take in your first year of dental school, so I would go with that if you want it to be more related to what you would be doing in dental school. I attended Barry University and there were no papers, just tests. The degree is really only there to help people get into dental or med school. I did a one year but they have 18 month and 2 year options that may better fit your needs. There is also no thesis with this program, just a comprehensive exam, which was nice.

 

[trakaszcie]

I admire your determination but if I were on your shoes, I would choose Dental Hygienist instead of Dental School. If you totally concentrate on studying for the next 2 years or so and get a 4.0 GPA on whatever you're studying and a 20+ DAT, then yes, you'll have a chance. However, I don't see how you can achieve that goal while working full time. Some people will say "as long as you try hard enough, you'll get it". Yes, you can give it a try, but keep in mind that doing well at school requires time, money, and determination. You're lacking the first two.

I thought Hygiene was the way to go, however since I already have a bachelors, I didn't want to go that route...My undergrad student loans are maxed out and I'd be paying completely out of pocket. Plus, being an EFDA now, it'd be more of a lateral move for me pay wise if I happened to not get into dental school...drats!

 

[trakaszcie]

Biomedical science masters degrees include classes you will take in your first year of dental school, so I would go with that if you want it to be more related to what you would be doing in dental school. I attended Barry University and there were no papers, just tests. The degree is really only there to help people get into dental or med school. I did a one year but they have 18 month and 2 year options that may better fit your needs. There is also no thesis with this program, just a comprehensive exam, which was nice.

Thanks for the info! I've looked at their admissions requirements and I don't think I'd make it! I've been out of college since 2005, and I don't think I'd be able to get LOR from science teachers! Plus, I'm pretty sure my GPA requirements aren't there. This is so frustrating, since I'm in dentistry, I place fillings, I know what I'm doing, and I just can't get past this stupid GPA thing! I was valedictorian in HS with a perfect 4.0, but college was different, especially being on my own financially! [Cue Cher's "If I Could Turn Back Time"...haha] Guess I could just go back and take the science courses one by one...? That's gonna take forever! Plus, even if I do perfect in those, won't that grade just factor in to the old GPA? It'll take a lot to bring that guy up! I'd hope that they'd look at the improvements?!

Sorry, every time I try to look into my possibilities I feel frustrated like I don't have options!

 

[KittySquared]

I thought Hygiene was the way to go, however since I already have a bachelors, I didn't want to go that route...My undergrad student loans are maxed out and I'd be paying completely out of pocket. Plus, being an EFDA now, it'd be more of a lateral move for me pay wise if I happened to not get into dental school...drats!

A 2.95 is definitely salvageable. Do what Hawkteeth said - do a biology masters program. A 1 year non-thesis program. That's what I did. I worked at a dental office ~20 hours a week and also finished my masters with a 3.7. I have other classmates who've gotten into schools like pharm and dental school with similar stats. Definitely doable. Aim for 20s on your DATs and write a good personal statement.

-2.95 undergrad GPA, 3.7+ grad GPA
-20 AA 20TS 19+PAT
-Apply to at least 20 schools. I think you'll have some interviews.

 

[Hawkteeth]

Thanks for the info! I've looked at their admissions requirements and I don't think I'd make it! I've been out of college since 2005, and I don't think I'd be able to get LOR from science teachers! Plus, I'm pretty sure my GPA requirements aren't there. This is so frustrating, since I'm in dentistry, I place fillings, I know what I'm doing, and I just can't get past this stupid GPA thing! I was valedictorian in HS with a perfect 4.0, but college was different, especially being on my own financially! [Cue Cher's "If I Could Turn Back Time"...haha] Guess I could just go back and take the science courses one by one...? That's gonna take forever! Plus, even if I do perfect in those, won't that grade just factor in to the old GPA? It'll take a lot to bring that guy up! I'd hope that they'd look at the improvements?!

Sorry, every time I try to look into my possibilities I feel frustrated like I don't have options!

I would just call them and say you are a non traditional student, they were pretty lenient when I was applying maybe it is still the same, they actually gave us until second semester to get our LORs in, not that anyone took that long. But if you have below a C in any prereqs you have to retake those anyways for dental admissions.

 

[trakaszcie]

A 2.95 is definitely salvageable. Do what Hawkteeth said - do a biology masters program. A 1 year non-thesis program. That's what I did. I worked at a dental office ~20 hours a week and also finished my masters with a 3.7. I have other classmates who've gotten into schools like pharm and dental school with similar stats. Definitely doable. Aim for 20s on your DATs and write a good personal statement.

-2.95 undergrad GPA, 3.7+ grad GPA
-20 AA 20TS 19+PAT
-Apply to at least 20 schools. I think you'll have some interviews.

Thanks for the encouragement! Where'd you do your program?

 

[KittySquared]

I did mine at a local university. There are many good ones out there. Talk to current students. I'm assuming you're in Ohio still? I think I remember reading about Uni of Cincinnatti. Look at all of the local colleges and see if they have a 1 year non thesis biology program. A 2 year program is okay too. If you have 0 research experience, you want to do some during your masters. A thesis counts. You'd just apply after you finish your first year in the summer. Aim for a 4.0, but realistically at the most, don't let yourself have more than 1 B per semester. I also don't recommend working, so you optimize your grades and studying.

I know people who went through the Georgetown and UMDNJ programs and they had good things to say. Georgetown is definitely geared more towards med school. You might have to relocate for some of the programs, but check out this forum. LECOM in Erie also has something similar.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

 

[trakaszcie]

I did mine at a local university. There are many good ones out there. Talk to current students. I'm assuming you're in Ohio still? I think I remember reading about Uni of Cincinnatti. Look at all of the local colleges and see if they have a 1 year non thesis biology program. A 2 year program is okay too. If you have 0 research experience, you want to do some during your masters. A thesis counts. You'd just apply after you finish your first year in the summer. Aim for a 4.0, but realistically at the most, don't let yourself have more than 1 B per semester. I also don't recommend working, so you optimize your grades and studying.

I know people who went through the Georgetown and UMDNJ programs and they had good things to say. Georgetown is definitely geared more towards med school. You might have to relocate for some of the programs, but check out this forum. LECOM in Erie also has something similar.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

Thanks again, Kitty! I'll check into it. I do not know if I'd be not able to work, as I have many bills...I guess my first goal should be to pay off all my debt [minus school loans anyway, because those I can defer especially if back in school!]. I've revisited this dental school dream so many times and I think I just postpone it because it seems as if there are so many hurdles for me to jump! I try not to get discouraged...I even gave up my 4.5 year relationship/engagement because I want my career and not to have kids right now. I know in my heart that I will be a dentist, I just need to tackle it one part at a time instead of fretting about the whole picture [which is completely overwhelming!!].

Thank you for your insight & help. A friend recommended speaking to a career counselor, and I am thinking a school counselor at OSU may be able to help me, or at least guide me on what I should do first.

 

[klopez42]

I think there is always a chance for you to comeback and achieve your dream. Do a Masters and kick some butt.

One additional point I would bring up is the time horizon for your situation, the average debt for dental school can be ANYWHERE from $250k-350K and you have to think about the length of time that it will take you to pay back such massive loans by the time you pay back interest it is in the neighborhood of $500K+ (and thats conservative). Most end up paying their loans in 10-15 years and then you have to work like crazy to make enough for retirement. You are still young but if you are going to be almost 40 by the time you are a practicing dentist, you will be in your 50's before you make any meaningful money and 15 years may not be enough to save for retirement.

I have a Bachelors in Finance and Biomedical Science and Dental school is only a good investment in certain situations. After I recevied my hard-earned acceptance the thought finally hit me, "How the Heck am I paying for this?" and after benefit/cost analysis its a hard bargain unless you have TIME and a PROFITABLE practice.

At any rate, that is just food for thought because soon Dental School tuition will become unmanageable as it continues to increase.

I guess my main piece of advice is to think of Dentistry past the acceptance to Dental school. Too many of us fail to think about it sometimes.

 

[Cello]

My hope is to find a solution to my below-average undergraduate GPA of 2.95. In order to raise my GPA to be competitive locally, I would basically need to do another Bachelors at nearly perfect grades.

How many credit hours do you have? You don't need to have a 3.5 GPA or even a 3.4 GPA to get into dental school. I believe that you could reasonably attain a 3.3 GPA with a couple of years of school.

Do you think, based on my grades, that if I did fantastic on the DAT and tried applying to some schools with lower GPA averages that I may have a chance?

I don't see why you would waste time and effort doing this when you've given yourself a timeline of 5 years. Use even 3-4 of those years to prepare yourself and you could get into a lot of schools.

I have previously called the OSU College of Dentistry, only to be told that I would not even get an interview with my GPA. I do not accept this answer and I will not give up!! I have also been told that it can depend on who you know. My GPA is FAR from competitive at OSU, but my drive, desire, and further understanding of the dental field makes me an exceptional candidate for dental school. I have also heard a little bit about Non-traditional Student status; would this apply to me? And where could I get more info about going this route?

You are non-trad, but I'm not sure what you are asking applies to you. Anyone who takes time between undergrad and professional school is non-trad. I am as well. With your drive and desire you should have absolutely NO PROBLEM bringing up your GPA and becoming a well rounded candidate for d-school.

Any suggestions or ideas you may have would be greatly appreciated! I have even spoke with the U. S. Air Force and the U. S. Army. Both of those are willing to help if I enlist [highly undesirable!].

Under NO circumstances should you do this if you want to be a dentist.

However, with a GPA of 3.3 or 3.1 respectively, I could enter as an Officer.

Probably, but not sure how many officers they're taking through the OCS/OTS route these days. When I was going OTS they canceled my board the first time around, which was unprecedented as far as I know. Budget cuts have hit all branches hard. My officer accessions recruiter told me the AF paid several O-3s around $120,000 in severance and said goodbye only three years into their careers...

If I was going to boost my GPA that much, I'd rather just go to any dental school I could get into, rather than join the armed forces!

To be a dentist in the AF/Army you have to be admitted to a d-school (the armed forces don't train dentists). They won't accept you as an officer and then train you to be a dentist, there's a separate health path for docs/dentists/etc. Have you spoken with your local officer accessions recruiter about HPSP?

I do feel that I may have exhausted my options! I REFUSE to give up. Dentistry is my passion; I cannot imagine doing anything else! The thought of having to give up makes my heart hurt.

Not at all. You can either do a Master's like many of the previous posters have suggested and do really well, or you can do a post-bacc degree to boost your undergrad GPA, but the loan issue doesn't bode well for you on the second option. Since you are giving yourself a timeline of five years, I myself would probably work for one or even two years to pay down the loans so that you can bring up your undergrad GPA. That year of work would also be a good time to shadow dentists, get in a bit of volunteering, and nail down some good ECs and leadership experience. I worked for nearly three years to go back to school, I wish I had done those things while I was working instead of waiting until going back to school.

Volunteering, research, shadowing, etc. all sound more intimidating than they really are. Frankly, if you plan well, you can accumulate hundreds of hours in each within just a couple of years while still studying full-time and even working part-time. I think it would be reasonable, depending upon how many credit hours you have now, to bring your GPA up to a 3.3 which is sufficient to be competitive if you are above average in everything else (dental experience, ECs, DAT, volunteering, interview, etc.).

 

[ToothfairyNC]

Thanks for the info! I've looked at their admissions requirements and I don't think I'd make it! I've been out of college since 2005, and I don't think I'd be able to get LOR from science teachers! Plus, I'm pretty sure my GPA requirements aren't there. This is so frustrating, since I'm in dentistry, I place fillings, I know what I'm doing, and I just can't get past this stupid GPA thing! I was valedictorian in HS with a perfect 4.0, but college was different, especially being on my own financially! [Cue Cher's "If I Could Turn Back Time"...haha] Guess I could just go back and take the science courses one by one...? That's gonna take forever! Plus, even if I do perfect in those, won't that grade just factor in to the old GPA? It'll take a lot to bring that guy up! I'd hope that they'd look at the improvements?!

Sorry, every time I try to look into my possibilities I feel frustrated like I don't have options!

There are other master's program out there that have a 2.75 GPA cut off. You will just need to shop around for the right one that will fits you. Most of the special master's degree program has already passed though, but there are few that are still left out there. It's ok to have that much debt out of undergraduate If you are passionate about dentistry then I would suggest to apply to a program, take out loans, and just focused on making good grades and do well on the DAT. Here is the link through Amcas for diff programs https://services.aamc.org/postbac/ There are few out there with application deadline in May. Good luck applying!