Anti Ivy

[sajjy]

So, i was telling my friend how people on SDN are anti-Ivy and he could come up with only one response: The Fox and the grapes.




http://www.bedtime.com/html/fox_and_grapes.html


I know there will be plenty of arguments now and many will bash me also. But as of now i agree with my friend.
I just found his response funny and wanted to share here as well.

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[nydds25]

my popcorn is out.........

 

[sajjy]

my popcorn is out.........

LOL, yeah i have mine out too. A nice game before the exam isnt bad at all.

 

[Ninster]

So, i was telling my friend how people on SDN are anti-Ivy and he could come up with only one response: The Fox and the grapes.




http://www.bedtime.com/html/fox_and_grapes.html


I know there will be plenty of arguments now and many will bash me also. But as of now i agree with my friend.
I just found his response funny and wanted to share here as well.

Did you REALLY need this story to agree with your friend?

 

[klutzy1987]

How about the people that bash a particular IVY even though they have an acceptance to it. What does your stupid story do for you then.

 

[cobalt31]

well, it is possible that some people may have been fine with or attracted to the ivies until they interviewed and were accepted there, and after seeing the actual facilities were not that impressed and then no longer think ivies are that great...

*alternate story*

in this story, the fox would come across a group of cats eating grapes and who all say how delicious they were and how they are so cool because they are the only ones who can eat the difficult-to-reach grapes. the fox, eager for grapes, gets his hands on some, finds out they taste just like any other grapes, and now doesn't think too highly of grapes or the cats that eat them.

 

[nydds25]

well, it is possible that some people may have been fine with or attracted to the ivies until they interviewed and were accepted there, and after seeing the actual facilities were not that impressed and then no longer think ivies are that great...

*alternate story*

in this story, the fox would come across a group of cats eating grapes and who all say how delicious they were and how they are so cool because they are the only ones who can eat the difficult-to-reach grapes. the fox, eager for grapes, gets his hands on some, finds out they taste just like any other grapes, and now doesn't think too highly of grapes or the cats that eat them.

umm... the fox would eat the cat instead of the grapes.

 

[eldirty]

well, it is possible that some people may have been fine with or attracted to the ivies until they interviewed and were accepted there, and after seeing the actual facilities were not that impressed and then no longer think ivies are that great...

*alternate story*

in this story, the fox would come across a group of cats eating grapes and who all say how delicious they were and how they are so cool because they are the only ones who can eat the difficult-to-reach grapes. the fox, eager for grapes, gets his hands on some, finds out they taste just like any other grapes, and now doesn't think too highly of grapes or the cats that eat them.

touché ... nice re-write

 

[bjhath]

So much hostility on sdn lately. Where have all the good times and sense of community gone?

 

[cobalt31]

oh man, please don't take my post as hostile - i have no problem with ivies or people that attend them. i'm just saying ivies aren't for everyone, and some people have reasons other than not being able to get into them for disliking them.

 

[klutzy1987]

well, it is possible that some people may have been fine with or attracted to the ivies until they interviewed and were accepted there, and after seeing the actual facilities were not that impressed and then no longer think ivies are that great...

*alternate story*

in this story, the fox would come across a group of cats eating grapes and who all say how delicious they were and how they are so cool because they are the only ones who can eat the difficult-to-reach grapes. the fox, eager for grapes, gets his hands on some, finds out they taste just like any other grapes, and now doesn't think too highly of grapes or the cats that eat them.

Very very well said. This thread just annoyed me, but your response was very good.

 

[Performer]

A "friend" goes to an ivy league school and trust me, he is just like me, the only difference is he has no social skills!
Anyway, the ivy league discussion will never end. It really depends on the person.
Also, if you plan to go the academia route, then yeah an ivy league education will help. I just want to have my own practice, so if there was a community college equivalent of dental school, I'd go there.
Oh yeah, you should know that in the hundreds of hours I've shadowed, every patient asked the dentist where he went to school!

 

[vlct0ria]

Wow, no reason to be a snot...I see it this way- there are 2 types of people on SDN: those that may be jealous because they can't get into an Ivy (in which case your story might be true), or those that CAN get into an Ivy, but decided against going because of the buttload of debt that comes along with that prestigious degree. I'd say the latter is the more accurate assumption for many people on here, since I think SDN represents the higher end of the applicant pool...plus, not to mention what the other poster said about the Ivies not being as impressive as you'd think.

 

[Lopyswine]

is it really anti ivy or anti HIGH TUITION?

I think the main point people make is:

you're going to get the same education everywhere, so go where is closest to home and costs the least.


I don't recall many people hating on the Ivy schools solely because of their name.

 

[PSU SHC 414]

is it really anti ivy or anti HIGH TUITION?

I think the main point people make is:

you're going to get the same education everywhere, so go where is closest to home and costs the least.


I don't recall many people hating on the Ivy schools solely because of their name.

Lucky for the OP that Lopyswine posted this before I did because my delivery would've been much more harsh.

I've posted a lot of "anti-Ivy" stuff in the past week or so, but click on that link under my name. Think it's due to jealousy?? Try more like an understanding of and appreciation for how things are in the "real" world.
I used to think that Ivy schools were hot **** too until I got out of school and the "free" money from mommy and daddy disappeared and I started having to pay bills. There's only one word to describe pre-dents who use the word "just" to precede monetary amounts in the 6 figures - naive.

Here's a good message (from a SDNers signature) that has been imprinted in my mind since I saw it... maybe every predent should take note of it too:

Memo to predents: Loan money is not the same as lottery money.

Think you'll be paying off that 6-figure difference within 1-2 years of graduating from D school? <--- that's going to be the response of every current dentist out there. Don't forget that 1) the majority of that borrowed money is UNsubsidized while you're in school, and 2) if you're lucky enough to net 6 figures in those first 2 years out of school, just wait to see how much that number diminishes after taxes, living expenses, and other bills are subtracted.

 

[PSU SHC 414]

umm... the fox would eat the cat instead of the grapes.

Good rewrite cobalt... and nydds25 - good ending

 

[sajjy]

Lucky for the OP that Lopyswine posted this before I did because my delivery would've been much more harsh.

I used to think that Ivy schools were hot **** too until I got out of school and the "free" money from mommy and daddy disappeared and I started having to pay bills. There's only one word to describe pre-dents who use the word "just" to precede monetary amounts in the 6 figures - naive.

Here's a good message (from a SDNers signature) that has been imprinted in my mind since I saw it... maybe every predent should take note of it too:

Memo to predents: Loan money is not the same as lottery money.

Think you'll be paying off that 6-figure difference within 1-2 years of graduating from D school? <--- that's going to be the response of every current dentist out there. Don't forget that 1) the majority of that borrowed money is UNsubsidized while you're in school, and 2) if you're lucky enough to net 6 figures in those first 2 years out of school, just wait to see how much that number diminishes after taxes, living expenses, and other bills are subtracted.

Harsh? LOL, you have been desperately waiting for interview from an Ivy.

Anyways, i agree with the high tuition, if a cheaper tuition is available. But when a person chooses a private school over a public school then it isnt frowned upon. But when an Ivy is chosen then all other kinds of remarks flow in.
When a person says that he/she liked the environment at a private school then its good for him/her to go the private school. But the same comment will not be accepted for an Ivy.

Either way, yes its personal choice and didnt mean to be hostile or anything. And i posted this because to some extent i found it to be funny and true also. No other intention.

 

[tjdent]

is it really anti ivy or anti HIGH TUITION?

I think the main point people make is:

you're going to get the same education everywhere, so go where is closest to home and costs the least.


I don't recall many people hating on the Ivy schools solely because of their name.

Amen sajjy. Nobody comes on SDN and hates on all the private schools that are more expensive than the Ivies. Nobody trashes ASDOH, even though they tell you at the interview that you're gonna need to borrow ~85K to go there, which is 10K more than Columbia. It is even more extreme for NYU or USC. Also, Boston, Tufts and NOVA are more expensive than Columbia and I think Harvard too, just to name a few off the top of my head. SO YES, people are hating on the ivies for being ivies and its stupid.

 

[sajjy]

Amen sajjy. Nobody comes on SDN and hates on all the private schools that are more expensive than the Ivies. Nobody trashes ASDOH, even though they tell you at the interview that you're gonna need to borrow ~85K to go there, which is 10K more than Columbia. It is even more extreme for NYU or USC. Also, Boston, Tufts and NOVA are more expensive than Columbia and I think Harvard too, just to name a few off the top of my head. SO YES, people are hating on the ivies for being ivies and its stupid.

Exactly.
Btw congratulations for all the acceptances. Especially for UCSF and Penn, great schools. Did you decide which school are you going to pick?

 

[PSU SHC 414]

Harsh? LOL, you have been desperately waiting for interview from an Ivy.

Anyways, i agree with the high tuition, if a cheaper tuition is available. But when a person chooses a private school over a public school then it isnt frowned upon. But when an Ivy is chosen then all other kinds of remarks flow in.
When a person says that he/she liked the environment at a private school then its good for him/her to go the private school. But the same comment will not be accepted for an Ivy.

Either way, yes its personal choice and didnt mean to be hostile or anything. And i posted this because to some extent i found it to be funny and true also. No other intention.

Desperate? I've already gotten acceptances from all but 1 Ivy, so I hardly think that I'm desperate. Yeah, it would've been great to get an invite/acceptance from Harvard, but do you think that I'm crying about it? I'll likely get as good an education (arguably even better from a clinical perspective) at another school without the added expense...

For the hundredth time, I'm not saying that the Ivies aren't going to provide a great educational experience. All I'm saying is that when you do a simple cost-benefit analysis of attending an Ivy, is the quality of the education you receive (vs that of many other good state programs...) really THAT much better? Doubt it.

 

[armorshell]

Amen sajjy. Nobody comes on SDN and hates on all the private schools that are more expensive than the Ivies. Nobody trashes ASDOH, even though they tell you at the interview that you're gonna need to borrow ~85K to go there, which is 10K more than Columbia. It is even more extreme for NYU or USC. Also, Boston, Tufts and NOVA are more expensive than Columbia and I think Harvard too, just to name a few off the top of my head. SO YES, people are hating on the ivies for being ivies and its stupid.

Yes, people do "hate" on those schools for being expensive as well. There's just fewer "Ohio vs. BU" threads because it doesn't have the "Ivy league reputation."

 

[armorshell]

Check again genius, I've already gotten ACCEPTANCES from all but 1 Ivy.

tr0wned

 

[Performer]

Alright sort of true.
However, not so many people would hate on ivy league schools but the people that attend/attended them are a pain in the ass.
Let me walk you through a conversation with a friend that goes to one.
Me: Hey man, what's up? How's your family doing?
My friend: Hmmm.. I go to an ivy league school and you go to state school.
Me: Yeah, you're right. But how's your family doing, I haven't seen them in a long time?
My friend: I go to an ivy league school so I'm better than you.
Me: ok, ok. You're better than me. But how's your family doing?
My friend: I go to an ivy league school, chicks dig that.
Me: Oh ok, I go to the gym and have a massive d#$%, chicks dig that.
END OF CONVERSATION
You see, that's why people hate on ivy leagues
Oh yeah, trust me I have the stats to make it to ivy leagues, so please don't bring that I couldn't make it.

 

[sajjy]

Check again genius, I've already gotten ACCEPTANCES from all but 1 Ivy.

Thats why i said "an Ivy". You have been hoping to get an interview from there. But lets not get that personal.

 

[Performer]

Please mods don't ban me, but I gotta say sajjy is such a dbag!

 

[brushhh]

hey relax. there might be reasons for ppl not attending ivys although they've got acceptance because they think it's not worth the investment. I don't think they hate em at all.

 

[brushhh]

Sajjy, why are you overdenfending ivys when you haven't "taste the grape" yet?
(according to ur predents, you are not attending one nor accepted to one)

 

[PSU SHC 414]

Thats why i said "an Ivy". You have been hoping to get an interview from there. But lets not get that personal.

You're right... I edited my post.

 

[PSU SHC 414]

and why are you overdenfending ivys when you haven't "taste the grape" yet?
(according to ur predents, you are not attending one nor accepted to one)

Based on other threads, I think sajjy has gotten an acceptance from Harvard (and likely all the other Ivies)...

I think he's also developed a bit of arrogance as a result...

 

[tjdent]

Exactly.
Btw congratulations for all the acceptances. Especially for UCSF and Penn, great schools. Did you decide which school are you going to pick?

Thanks man, leaning towards UCSF because I like the pass/fail idea and have some friends in the bay area

 

[bcdds09]

Desperate? I've already gotten acceptances from all but 1 Ivy, so I hardly think that I'm desperate. Yeah, it would've been great to get an invite/acceptance from Harvard, but do you think that I'm crying about it?

And there are plenty of people who would turn down Harvard purely due to COST. Already a number of our peers have raised the question about whether or not the cost of Harvard is worth it...

Word.

A couple of my friends were accepted to Harvard couple of years back but decided to stay at home instead.

As someone alluded to earlier in this thread, you will be a dentist no matter where you graduate from.


Obviously not everyone would have done what they did, and that is totally fine. People go to different schools for different reasons, and my intention isn't to bash the ivy schools at all, they are obviously great schools.

 

[brushhh]

Based on other threads, I think sajjy has gotten an acceptance from Harvard (and likely all the other Ivies)...

I think he's also developed a bit of arrogance as a result...

-_-;;duh

 

[klutzy1987]

Desperate? I've already gotten acceptances from all but 1 Ivy, so I hardly think that I'm desperate. Yeah, it would've been great to get an invite/acceptance from Harvard, but do you think that I'm crying about it? I'll likely get as good an education (arguably even better from a clinical perspective) at another school without the added expense...

For the hundredth time, I'm not saying that the Ivies aren't going to provide a great educational experience. All I'm saying is that when you do a simple cost-benefit analysis of attending an Ivy, is the quality of the education you receive (vs that of many other good state programs...) really THAT much better? Doubt it.

What about me, I've received interviews from all three Ivies. The only one that impressed me at all is Penn. Harvard and Columbia are old rundown and devoted to their medical school much more than their dental school. They make the dental students take classes with the medical students. Why do you think that is. I personally think it is because it saves them millions of dollar a year in salaries for extra professors/extra class time. Professors get paid per class/hour not how many people are in the class. Columbia and Harvard are both poor clinically and both are more expensive then my state school, stonybrook, which by the way has higher admission standards than columbia and Penn and it rivals Harvard. It has newer facilities and jus as small a class size. On the east coast it has just as good a reputation. No one is hating on Ivy league schools, we are just pointing out that just because their name is Harvard or Columbia, doesnt mean they are an excellent or even good school.

 

[klutzy1987]

Based on other threads, I think sajjy has gotten an acceptance from Harvard (and likely all the other Ivies)...

I think he's also developed a bit of arrogance as a result...

It is highly unlikely thst Sajjy got an acceptance from Harvard with his stats. They are very below average for any of the top schools.

 

[bcdds09]

It is highly unlikely thst Sajjy got an acceptance from Harvard with his stats. They are very below average for any of the top schools.

 

[achilles2]

What about me, I've received interviews from all three Ivies. The only one that impressed me at all is Penn. Harvard and Columbia are old rundown and devoted to their medical school much more than their dental school. They make the dental students take classes with the medical students. Why do you think that is. I personally think it is because it saves them millions of dollar a year in salaries for extra professors/extra class time. Professors get paid per class/hour not how many people are in the class. Columbia and Harvard are both poor clinically and both are more expensive then my state school, stonybrook, which by the way has higher admission standards than columbia and Penn and it rivals Harvard. It has newer facilities and jus as small a class size. On the east coast it has just as good a reputation. No one is hating on Ivy league schools, we are just pointing out that just because their name is Harvard or Columbia, doesnt mean they are an excellent or even good school.

I didn't want to have to do this klutz but you know at Stony you have to take the med classes too But I think thats a good thing....no MD can run his mouth at you if you smoke him in med school.....nothing but love I'm just hating cuz I havn't heard back from stony yet

And Stonys clinic is straight epic you get your own patient pool in year 2 for life....

 

[brushhh]

It is highly unlikely thst Sajjy got an acceptance from Harvard with his stats. They are very below average for any of the top schools.

that's what I am talking about, klutzy.
btw, sajjy, why did you think sdners are anti ivys? we all know that we love em. this is a pointless thread.

 

[klutzy1987]

I didn't want to have to do this klutz but you know at Stony you have to take the med classes too But I think thats a good thing....no MD can run his mouth at you if you smoke him in med school.....nothing but love I'm just hating cuz I havn't heard back from stony yet

And Stonys clinic is straight epic you get your own patient pool in year 2 for life....

I know I didnt say they didnt, I was just hating on the ivies a little. Im not thrilled with the whole med class thing. Some aspects are ok, but learning hematology and histology, thats just stupid. I loved the clinic, class size, comprehensive care, and neighborhood. They are Storng both didactically and clinically as opposed to Columbia and also Harvard which are only strong didactically.

 

[achilles2]

I know I didnt say they didnt, I was just hating on the ivies a little. Im not thrilled with the whole med class thing. Some aspects are ok, but learning hematology and histology, thats just stupid. I loved the clinic, class size, comprehensive care, and neighborhood. They are Storng both didactically and clinically as opposed to Columbia and also Harvard which are only strong didactically.

but with the hematology you can figure out House MD diagonoses before everyone else when your watching it!!!!! its the little things in life lol


I just finished my pharmacology final so my mind is warped Ugh biostats tomm =/

 

[misstoothfairy]

[Harvard + Tufts] integrated into one school = The Ultimate School.

New Argument.

 

[misstoothfairy]

It is highly unlikely thst Sajjy got an acceptance from Harvard with his stats. They are very below average for any of the top schools.

You're absolutely right. with his 20-21ish DATs they are gonna need someone else with 26's to balance it out.

 

[misstoothfairy]

I know I didnt say they didnt, I was just hating on the ivies a little. Im not thrilled with the whole med class thing. Some aspects are ok, but learning hematology and histology, thats just stupid. I loved the clinic, class size, comprehensive care, and neighborhood. They are Storng both didactically and clinically as opposed to Columbia and also Harvard which are only strong didactically.

Clinically for DMD it wouldn't matter how strong you are. If you go to Harvard, most likely you're going into Research or Specialist.

 

[klutzy1987]

Clinically for DMD it wouldn't matter how strong you are. If you go to Harvard, most likely you're going into Research or Specialist.

Yeah but how can you know whether or not you want to specialize if you havent really been exposed to dentistry. After doing rotations in all of the specialty fields and practicing in clinic for 2 years you will be prepared to make such a decision.

 

[Lopyswine]

***************************

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TO ALL PREDENTS

You are applying to DENTAL SCHOOL, not ORAL SURGERY SCHOOL, not ORTHODONTIST SCHOOL, not PEDIATRIC DENTAL SCHOOL.

None of you have ever cut a prep, made a crown, made a denture, pulled a tooth, or placed a spacer.

You sound like *****S when you talk about specializing when you haven't even started learning GENERAL dentistry.


****************

 

[Performer]

***************************

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TO ALL PREDENTS

You are applying to DENTAL SCHOOL, not ORAL SURGERY SCHOOL, not ORTHODONTIST SCHOOL, not PEDIATRIC DENTAL SCHOOL.

None of you have ever cut a prep, made a crown, made a denture, pulled a tooth, or placed a spacer.

You sound like *****S when you talk about specializing when you haven't even started learning GENERAL dentistry.


****************

Agree!
Time for this thread to be closed!

 

[klutzy1987]

***************************

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TO ALL PREDENTS

You are applying to DENTAL SCHOOL, not ORAL SURGERY SCHOOL, not ORTHODONTIST SCHOOL, not PEDIATRIC DENTAL SCHOOL.

None of you have ever cut a prep, made a crown, made a denture, pulled a tooth, or placed a spacer.

You sound like *****S when you talk about specializing when you haven't even started learning GENERAL dentistry.


****************

Thats what I said but i think I said it a little nicer.

 

[Lopyswine]

Thats what I said but i think I said it a little nicer.

yes, I see you said it before me and much nicer....

I just get pissed off.

Its hilarious how I am just finishing my first semester of D1 and already like half the people who were dead set on specializing have decided that general dentistry doesn't look so bad...

a few anatomy practicals can really persuade you...

 

[klutzy1987]

yes, I see you said it before me and much nicer....

I just get pissed off.

Its hilarious how I am just finishing my first semester of D1 and already like half the people who were dead set on specializing have decided that general dentistry doesn't look so bad...

a few anatomy practicals can really persuade you...

After speaking to many residents that have graduated from many different schools that was the unanimous conclusion, Its impossible to know what type of dentistry you will practice, until after you finish third year, and probably not even until you fnish all your rotation electives in your fourth year.

 

[dentalmagnet]

yes, I see you said it before me and much nicer....

I just get pissed off.

Its hilarious how I am just finishing my first semester of D1 and already like half the people who were dead set on specializing have decided that general dentistry doesn't look so bad...

a few anatomy practicals can really persuade you...

Well I'm going to be an orthodontist..scratch that an oral surgeon. Whichever makes the most G's.

 

[klutzy1987]

Well I'm going to be an orthodontist..scratch that an oral surgeon. Whichever makes the most G's.

Depends on you, not wat specialty. If you are a likeable guy and do a good job you will be successful. If you are a total ass even if you are very good with a drill you will be broke. Also, if you are choosing this profession simply because of money I would sugest dropping out now. Youll never make it through school and even if you do you will be miserable.