Any advice for interviewing at reach schools?

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StayWandering said:
It was not in my or my company's best interest to reject an otherwise qualified candidate if I observed minor fashion "hiccups" (dumb tie, dirt on pant leg, unzipped zipper, untied shoelaces, misbuttoned/unbuttoned buttons) in an interview.
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hundo percent agree. This was the point I tried to make here, you just said it better and backed by more valuable experience lol

imbesrs said:
I've conducted interviews for successors to my positions in school etc, and its just much more valuable to not turn down good candidates who lacks things like that. You can teach them
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imbesrs said:
Deviant from mainstream, regular formal attire. One that does not overtly stand out from the crowd.
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Yeah, no, I got that. Just not sure how a red tie is in any way shape or form "deviant". Seems pretty normal to me.
 
StayWandering said:
Yeah, no, I got that. Just not sure how a red tie is in any way shape or form "deviant". Seems pretty normal to me.
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Yeah I didn't think that red ties are deviant. Fine color, just I wouldnt pick it because IMO its too bold. Deviant meaning wearing a white prom tux with a boutonniere
 
spuding102 said:
These small things reveal how “well adjusted” someone is. That’s why I am making a big deal about it
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You're making a big deal over something that will almost never be the difference between an acceptance or a rejection for an applicant. I understand the importance of a well-fitting suit and color fashion. I also understand if a nervous kid on his/her first interview accidentally buttons up the bottom button of a suit or if God forbid someone wears just too light-colored of a reddish tie.

I value compassion, intellect, and communication skills in my future colleagues. I value their ability to connect with people and their sociability. I do not give one s*** if they wear a red tie. Or if they forget to button their bottom button of a suit when standing up some times. I'd just nudge them and give them an indication at most. Not silently judge them over something so small and inconsequential.
 
SeaHusky said:
I think we are all well aware of subconscious biases. But if the difference between us getting an acceptance and a rejection is truly because we forgot to unbutton the bottom button of our suit, then I am very glad I do not attend that institution.
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But you see, that’s my point. They’re not choosing A over B “because” of the bottom button. They are saying that A and B are both equally qualified, and then they rationalize why one is more deserving over the other. Unknowingly they may use subconscious bias to make this rationalization. Humans do this all the time to justify decisions they’ve made.
 
spuding102 said:
Perhaps Ill informed is better. There ARE unwritten rules.
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spuding102 said:
These small things reveal how “well adjusted” someone is. That’s why I am making a big deal about it
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Yes, ill informed is better. Yes, there are unwritten rules.

I can’t comprehend why you associate an understanding of unwritten rules with being “well adjusted.” This is an elitist attitude.

If you just shared your understanding of those rules in the first place, for the betterment of SDN, I would have been on your side. Instead, you ridiculed your co-applicants.
 
Fwiw, I have yet to hear of a single faculty or student interviewer bring up an applicant's tie color or button etiquette in their evaluation. There are so many other things to comment on. Be presentable and you'll be fine. Minor fashion faux pas will not affect the ultimate decision.
 
Kardio said:
Yes, ill informed is better. Yes, there are unwritten rules.

I can’t comprehend why you associate an understanding of unwritten rules with being “well adjusted.” This is an elitist attitude.

If you just shared your understanding of those rules in the first place, for the betterment of SDN, I would have been on your side. Instead, you ridiculed your co-applicants.
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I did not ridicule them. I never said anything to anyone in the interview. I am posting what I have seen on an anonymous forum. You can call it whatever you want, but humans use subconscious indicators all the time. See the thread someone posted about more attractive med school students having better match results.
 
Engrailed said:
Lol.
To think that these tie/button discerning people would be physicians. I cant imagine my doctor sitting there judging patients on whether their second button was done or not
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It's usually rare for a patient to be wearing anything with a second button. For some patients, I'm lucky if they even keep their clothes on :laugh:
 
CaptainPoopyPants said:
But you see, that’s my point. They’re not choosing A over B “because” of the bottom button. They are saying that A and B are both equally qualified, and then they rationalize why one is more deserving over the other. Unknowingly they may use subconscious bias to make this rationalization. Humans do this all the time to justify decisions they’ve made.
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They can do this with literally anything. You could wear the most conservative suit possible, do absolutely everything correctly, and still be left sitting in the cold. There's going to be interviewers out there who will judge me over my navy tie because they prefer maroon. Or black. Or green.

I'm not arguing that small fashion tips like these aren't useful. I'm laughing at the fact that he thinks his personal opinions (e.g. red ties are universally considered inappropriate for med school interviews. Really lol?) are ubiquitously held by the majority of interviewers out there. We have so little control over this process that it's ridiculous to crucify fellow applicants for small stuff (a freaking BUTTON) that ultimately have a 0.01% chance they make a meaningful difference in a final decision.
 
spuding102 said:
I did not ridicule them. I never said anything to anyone in the interview. I am posting what I have seen on an anonymous forum. You can call it whatever you want, but humans use subconscious indicators all the time. See the thread someone posted about more attractive med school students having better match results.
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I suppose our understanding of “ridicule” is as different as our understanding of “common sense.” :

spuding102 said:
Some examples I have seen thus far at interviews which I would consider not socially adept/no common sense

1) wearing a tie that is way way too long
2) wearing a red tie
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spuding102 said:
You can usually tell the adults from the children in the room ju
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spuding102 said:
You can definitely tell on interview day who looks like they have their stuff together and who dosent. On one interview, someone sat down with the bottom button of their suit buttoned.
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spuding102 said:
The latter is a child, not a professional
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Adcoms: America is a melting pot of culture and diversity. As such, we are seeking a broad range of students from all types of backgrounds to help represent the rich diversity of our nation. We don't expect applicants to conform to the idea of one archetypal candidate.

Also Adcoms: Oh **** he's got a red tie. GTFO
 
Just curious what page this thread will be at by tomorrow. Keep up the excellent work keyboard warriors! 😉

Good night
 
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EmbryonalCarcinoma said:
Really? I didn’t realize admissions committee members were so superficial. I would imagine that your personality and interview answers are more important than your tie. Sure, you should look professional, but these wouldn’t be my top priorities when evaluating an applicant.
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I agree. This is akin to if I were an adcom, my rule would be that ONLY applicants that wore pink on Wednesday interviews could qualify for an acceptance...
 
SeaHusky said:
"i aM nOt eLiTiSt bEcAuSe i aM nOt rIcH"

As if an elitist attitude is restricted to only those who come from wealth. Give me a break lmao
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Have you ever worked in a factory before doing manual labor? Have you ever had someone close to you suffer with an illness because they cant afford health insurance? Have you ever dealt with family members who are addicted to drugs? Don't call me elitist when you know nothing about me. I am far from elitist. My point is, that these small things DO matter and they DO influence others perceptions of you. If you have ever been significantly overweight before and then lost the weight you will know the way people treat you, from all walks of life, is radically different. You may not get rejected for "minor" fashion mistakes but I will bet the farm that it will leave a bad first impression. In any case, you are free to disagree with me. Thats fine and its normal to have different opinions as to what constitutes minor and major. If you resort to ad hominem attacks because someone does not agree with you, then that says something about you.

If you want to see a place where dress down to the last detail is pretty much overtly mentioned, look at Mayo.
 
spuding102 said:
Have you ever worked in a factory before doing manual labor? Have you ever had someone close to you suffer with an illness because they cant afford health insurance? Have you ever dealt with family members who are addicted to drugs? Don't call me elitist when you know nothing about me. I am far from elitist. My point is, that these small things DO matter and they DO influence others perceptions of you. If you have ever been significantly overweight before and then lost the weight you will know the way people treat you, from all walks of life, is radically different. You may not get rejected for "minor" fashion mistakes but I will bet the farm that it will leave a bad first impression. In any case, you are free to disagree with me. Thats fine and its normal to have different opinions as to what constitutes minor and major. If you resort to ad hominem attacks because someone does not agree with you, then that says something about you.

If you want to see a place where dress down to the last detail is pretty much overtly mentioned, look at Mayo.
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I know this post wasn't directed at me, but I have worked in a factory doing manual labor. I have literally spent the last several years without health insurance, and I've paid dearly for it. And I'm proud to say that one of my immediate family members is now sober, although they struggled with addiction for many years. I'm still capable of having an elitist attitude, and so are you.
 
spuding102 said:
Have you ever worked in a factory before doing manual labor? Have you ever had someone close to you suffer with an illness because they cant afford health insurance? Have you ever dealt with family members who are addicted to drugs? Don't call me elitist when you know nothing about me. I am far from elitist. My point is, that these small things DO matter and they DO influence others perceptions of you. If you have ever been significantly overweight before and then lost the weight you will know the way people treat you, from all walks of life, is radically different. You may not get rejected for "minor" fashion mistakes but I will bet the farm that it will leave a bad first impression. In any case, you are free to disagree with me. Thats fine and its normal to have different opinions as to what constitutes minor and major. If you resort to ad hominem attacks because someone does not agree with you, then that says something about you.

If you want to see a place where dress down to the last detail is pretty much overtly mentioned, look at Mayo.
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Pointing out you don’t have to be rich to hold elitist attitudes is an hominem attack now?

damn, I didn’t know sdn had such fresh pasta
 
UWIdahoan said:
I know this post wasn't directed at me, but I have worked in a factory doing manual labor. I have literally spent the last several years without health insurance, and I've paid dearly for it. And I'm proud to say that one of my immediate family members is now sober, although they struggled with addiction for many years. I'm still capable of having an elitist attitude, and so are you.
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Well, I disagree. An elitist attitude is the exact opposite of these things. In 6 interviews attended out of roughly 100 students, I have only seen one wear a red tie. I wonder why more people don't do it. I mean, I like the color red and im sure other people do to?

Theres a big distinction between "oh I think this person should have worn X color of shirt with X tie or brown shoes with a blue suit". Thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is, dont stick out because of your attire. Er on the conservative side.
 
"Mary Ann Morris, who manages general services and Mayo Clinic volunteer programs at Mayo Rochester, likes to tell a story about her early days at the Clinic. She was working in a laboratory—a job that required her to wear a white uniform and white shoes. And after a frantic morning getting her two small children to school, she arrived at work to find her supervisor staring at her shoes. The supervisor had noticed that the laces were dirty where they threaded through the eyelets of the shoes and asked Morris to clean them. Offended, Morris said that she worked in a laboratory, not with patients, so why should it matter? Her supervisor replied that Morris had contact with patients in ways she didn't recognize—going out on the street wearing her Mayo name tag, for instance, or passing patients and their families as she walked through the halls—and that she couldn't represent Mayo Clinic with dirty shoelaces. "Though I was initially offended, I realized over time [that] everything I do, down to my shoelaces, represents my commitment to our patients and visitors…. I still use the dirty shoelace story to set the standard for the service level I aspire to for myself and my co-workers."


"A dirty shoelace hardly seems meaningful in the high-stakes context of caring for ill people. However, a shoelace is something a patient or anxious family member can see, a small but tangible piece of evidence about an organization and the intangible, technically complex medical services it offers. In effect, the shoelace plays a surrogate role, helping to tell a service organization's story. The shoelace is a clue about quality, one of many Mayo Clinic uses to tell its story cohesively, distinctively, and compellingly. The Clinic's clue management is exemplary, melding intuition and purposefulness in the quest to create a superior experience for patients. This chapter explains how Mayo orchestrates clues about quality—down to the shoelaces—based on the concept of managing clues to create the customers' service experience."
 
spuding102 said:
"Mary Ann Morris, who manages general services and Mayo Clinic volunteer programs at Mayo Rochester, likes to tell a story about her early days at the Clinic. She was working in a laboratory—a job that required her to wear a white uniform and white shoes. And after a frantic morning getting her two small children to school, she arrived at work to find her supervisor staring at her shoes. The supervisor had noticed that the laces were dirty where they threaded through the eyelets of the shoes and asked Morris to clean them. Offended, Morris said that she worked in a laboratory, not with patients, so why should it matter? Her supervisor replied that Morris had contact with patients in ways she didn't recognize—going out on the street wearing her Mayo name tag, for instance, or passing patients and their families as she walked through the halls—and that she couldn't represent Mayo Clinic with dirty shoelaces. "Though I was initially offended, I realized over time [that] everything I do, down to my shoelaces, represents my commitment to our patients and visitors…. I still use the dirty shoelace story to set the standard for the service level I aspire to for myself and my co-workers."


"A dirty shoelace hardly seems meaningful in the high-stakes context of caring for ill people. However, a shoelace is something a patient or anxious family member can see, a small but tangible piece of evidence about an organization and the intangible, technically complex medical services it offers. In effect, the shoelace plays a surrogate role, helping to tell a service organization's story. The shoelace is a clue about quality, one of many Mayo Clinic uses to tell its story cohesively, distinctively, and compellingly. The Clinic's clue management is exemplary, melding intuition and purposefulness in the quest to create a superior experience for patients. This chapter explains how Mayo orchestrates clues about quality—down to the shoelaces—based on the concept of managing clues to create the customers' service experience."
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Guess I need to buy new shoelaces before my mayo interview. Thanks for the info.
 
spuding102 said:
Well, I disagree. An elitist attitude is the exact opposite of these things. In 6 interviews attended out of roughly 100 students, I have only seen one wear a red tie. I wonder why more people don't do it. I mean, I like the color red and im sure other people do to?

Theres a big distinction between "oh I think this person should have worn X color of shirt with X tie or brown shoes with a blue suit". Thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is, dont stick out because of your attire. Er on the conservative side.
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Calling other people “children” and saying it’s easy to distinguish between children and professionals based off of a tie color or a button is by definition holding an elitist attitude. You’ve done this multiple times throughout this thread.

I genuinely hope you’re much more charming in real life. You’re clearly academically gifted. But your constant need to belittle others as children in comparison to yourself, along with your ridiculous insistence that elitist attitudes can only be held by the wealthy, reeks of narcissism and insecurity. Believe it or not, it’s possible to present friendly advice without being a dick. Your future patients will thank you for it.
 
SeaHusky said:
Calling other people “children” and saying it’s easy to distinguish between children and professionals based off of a tie color or a button is by definition holding an elitist attitude. You’ve done this multiple times throughout this thread.

I genuinely hope you’re much more charming in real life. You’re clearly academically gifted. But your constant need to belittle others as children in comparison to yourself, along with your ridiculous insistence that elitist attitudes can only be held by the wealthy, reeks of narcissism and insecurity. Believe it or not, it’s possible to present friendly advice without being a dick. Your future patients will thank you for it.
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I believe that holding an elitist attitude can only really come from wealth. Also, what I am saying I wholeheartedly agree with. You can tell the college students from the people who have been out working in the real world. I refer to the former as children (as I was in college), and to the latter as adults. I am only mentioning these things on an anonymous forum. I would never call someone out in person because I didnt like their tie color.
 
spuding102 said:
"Mary Ann Morris, who manages general services and Mayo Clinic volunteer programs at Mayo Rochester, likes to tell a story about her early days at the Clinic. She was working in a laboratory—a job that required her to wear a white uniform and white shoes. And after a frantic morning getting her two small children to school, she arrived at work to find her supervisor staring at her shoes. The supervisor had noticed that the laces were dirty where they threaded through the eyelets of the shoes and asked Morris to clean them. Offended, Morris said that she worked in a laboratory, not with patients, so why should it matter? Her supervisor replied that Morris had contact with patients in ways she didn't recognize—going out on the street wearing her Mayo name tag, for instance, or passing patients and their families as she walked through the halls—and that she couldn't represent Mayo Clinic with dirty shoelaces. "Though I was initially offended, I realized over time [that] everything I do, down to my shoelaces, represents my commitment to our patients and visitors…. I still use the dirty shoelace story to set the standard for the service level I aspire to for myself and my co-workers."
Click to expand...

This is my point exactly! If we were to take your route, Ms. Mary Ann Morris would have been fired. Instead, Mayo realized this small detail is a teachable moment to which behavior can be learned and corrected for the future. An applicant with an extra button buttoned who really doesn't know that tidbit about formality is in a position to learn both what the formality is as well as the meaning behind upholding yourself to your most professional self 🙂
 
imbesrs said:
This is my point exactly! If we were to take your route, Ms. Mary Ann Morris would have been fired. Instead, Mayo realized this small detail is a teachable moment to which behavior can be learned and corrected for the future. An applicant with an extra button buttoned who really doesn't know that tidbit about formality is in a position to learn both what the formality is as well as the meaning behind upholding yourself to your most professional self 🙂
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Who said she would have been fired? If she interviewed and her supervisor noticed this small detail, from the way he reacted, do you think it would have left a negative impression? Point being, start off on the right foot with the interviewer--dress conservatively.
 
spuding102 said:
You can tell the college students from the people who have been out working in the real world. I refer to the former as children (as I was in college), and to the latter as adults.
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Btw, there is nothing wrong with being a college student applying to med school. It is in fact school that we are applying to and a lot of applicants are still in the process of learning the "unwritten rules" of the business/professional world.
 
jfijiefjieji said:
Btw, there is nothing wrong with being a college student applying to med school. It is in fact school that we are applying to and a lot of applicants are still in the process of learning the "unwritten rules" of the business/professional world.
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Of course there is nothing wrong with it. My suggestion is that students learn these unwritten rules before their interviews, thereby maximizing their chances for success.
 
Damn I guess the dude at one of my interviews who wore a 3 button suit (and keep all of them buttoned at all times) + khakis got instantly rejected 🤣
 
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