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I was given a three month notice at my job of my termination. I did not make any mistakes in patient care, but had some disagreements with peers. I behaved a little bit like a princess. I am on good terms with everyone now or atleast not quarreling. They are looking for my replacement. I am comfortable at this job and really do not want to leave. Is there any chance I can change their minds?
 

Bartelby

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It sounds like they are the ones to ask. Still, I very much doubt you will get the job back after being fired. You would probably be best served looking elsewhere for work.
 

whopper

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I figure this question is not answerable. One could only judge if given a good and full picture of what happened. "A bit like a princess" is not giving us anything relevant.

Should I perform a surgery? I was acting a little bit like a prince (flung a tray of surgery blades at a nurse, one ended up cutting her face).
 
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I mean they gave me a three month notice so I am still working there until July. I asked them a couple weeks ago for another chance and they said nothing had changed. Yet they continue to communicate with me in all other respects as though everything were fine. Like they expect me to be giving 100% when I am going to have to start over elsewhere in a couple months. I suppose that makes sense since they are paying me - but I would be wary of keeping someone in my company who I had given the axe to. Only a few people in the organization know. I am looking for a job elsewhere, but honestly do not want to leave this one. I appreciate the three month notice and time to find a new job, but feel if they really wanted me out they would just have fired me on the spot. I guess what I am asking is: is there any point in trying and if so what do I do?
 

whopper

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The above post is loaded with information not relevant and not enough relevant information given.

You are expected to give 100% whether or not they kept you or not. You're a resident. You're not supposed to slack off cause you feel like it.
They are supposed to communicate with you "fine" in other respects. It's called maintaining a work environment.
You "suppose" it makes sense they're paying you? Holy Heuzues you didn't know they're supposed to pay you for the work you do?
Most of the time residencies aren't allowed to fire you on the spot. Many also will keep residents so that resident could at least complete a year if they transfer out, keep the resident employed with maintained benefits, and it helps the employer avoid a human resource shortage.

You haven't outright said it but the post above strongly suggests you don't know how the process works in several areas of residency and just in general working in any place.

This really isn't one for us to answer. The people who are supposed to effectively answer it already gave your their answer.
 
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I am licensed. I am not a resident. I have job hopped a bit and do not want to leave this job. I work in psychiatry. I am a PA not a psychiatrist. Basically to my understanding my boss (the MD) is making the decision to fire me.

The princess behavior was: When I started I said I needed an office with a window and would quit if they said no. They gave me the office. The bigger issue was cliquey coworkers claimed I was aggressive in staff meetings and claimed they felt anxious/nervous challenging me. I admit I can be firm and up front and will stand up for myself in that environment, but the complaining about me was more of a classic bullying tactic than really wanting management to intervene. Nonetheless I am on good terms with everyone now and haven't had any drama so if aggressive communication was the problem I don't see why they can't just move on if the problem is resolved.
 

whopper

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Repeating the same above.
This really isn't one for us to answer. The people who are supposed to effectively answer it already gave your their answer.
 
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I felt the MD was on the fence since when I came back from vacation he asked to speak to me. He had been covering for me and he said my documentation was really good also chastised me about some other BS. And I was like "Do you think I can ask HR for another chance" and he paused and was like "I haven't seen anything to make me say yes to that" (or something to this effect). So I felt if I was on 100% best behavior and didn't have any drama for the next couple months they would reconsider. They also have not found a replacement for me yet.

My immediate supervisor, who I interact with every day, includes me in discussions about tx as though I did not have one foot out the door. I tried to skip a meeting and she sent me an email telling me I had to be there. I don't get why they are continuing to treat me as an integral team member while simultaneously phasing me out. It is grotesque.
 

hamstergang

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My immediate supervisor, who I interact with every day, includes me in discussions about tx as though I did not have one foot out the door. I tried to skip a meeting and she sent me an email telling me I had to be there. I don't get why they are continuing to treat me as an integral team member while simultaneously phasing me out. It is grotesque.
Is this a joke? You are still part of the team until you leave. You are still treating real patients who rely on you doing your best work. This is how real life is.
 
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I told her I would come to the meeting in the last 30 m to discuss my patients as I was locking my notes and she was like "no you need to come now in case you need to cover for the other prescriber". This seemed a tad excessive since 1) the meeting was where the drama was and 2) if I have to cover for the doc one day I will read the patient's chart to get up to speed. Also they keep sending me these stupid little forms to sign and asking me to add things to my notes following insurance people reviewing my charts.

I do as good a job for my patients as I can given the circumstances. I like taking care of patients and am good at that.
 

Mass Effect

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I understand that the duress of constant scrutiny and firing makes you want to check out early. If anything, just being mentally there is difficult. I get it. But you have to continue to do your job as if nothing happened. You really don't want to burn bridges and that's what it sounds like you'd be doing if you didn't give 100%, as hard as it is.

Additionally, I'm concerned about how much you're minimizing your behavior and thinking everyone can move on because you stopped treating them poorly. If they had anxiety about speaking out against you, that suggests you had a bigger problem than simply being firm. Workplace intimidation and bullying is a huge deal and the ramifications to your colleagues outlast your behavior. No one likes a toxic work environment and don't underestimate the power of your words/behavior on others. Maybe if you had showed a little more insight into how you affected others, things might have been different, but it's too late for that. If I were you, I'd be 100% professional, give 100% to the job, and move on to another position having learned a valuable lesson.
 
Sep 12, 2010
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Sounds like a lack of professionalism overall. What was the point about the window? No reason for that.
And I have seen some midlevels behave like this. They don't think they are responsible for their behavior.
The MD has given you his answer, very clearly.
 
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I am licensed. I am not a resident. I have job hopped a bit and do not want to leave this job. I work in psychiatry. I am a PA not a psychiatrist. Basically to my understanding my boss (the MD) is making the decision to fire me.

The princess behavior was: When I started I said I needed an office with a window and would quit if they said no. They gave me the office. The bigger issue was cliquey coworkers claimed I was aggressive in staff meetings and claimed they felt anxious/nervous challenging me. I admit I can be firm and up front and will stand up for myself in that environment, but the complaining about me was more of a classic bullying tactic than really wanting management to intervene. Nonetheless I am on good terms with everyone now and haven't had any drama so if aggressive communication was the problem I don't see why they can't just move on if the problem is resolved.
Already job hopped? Your choice? The drama has disappeared as they know there is an end to this. You may think other's don't know, but that is rarely true.
 
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The above post is loaded with information not relevant and not enough relevant information given.

You are expected to give 100% whether or not they kept you or not. You're a resident. You're not supposed to slack off cause you feel like it.
They are supposed to communicate with you "fine" in other respects. It's called maintaining a work environment.
You "suppose" it makes sense they're paying you? Holy Heuzues you didn't know they're supposed to pay you for the work you do?
Most of the time residencies aren't allowed to fire you on the spot. Many also will keep residents so that resident could at least complete a year if they transfer out, keep the resident employed with maintained benefits, and it helps the employer avoid a human resource shortage.

You haven't outright said it but the post above strongly suggests you don't know how the process works in several areas of residency and just in general working in any place.

This really isn't one for us to answer. The people who are supposed to effectively answer it already gave your their answer.
Perhaps like the H and P's?
 
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Monocles

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And I was like "Do you think I can ask HR for another chance" and he paused and was like "I haven't seen anything to make me say yes to that" (or something to this effect).
OP, based on what your supervisor said, I don't think you'll likely get hired back. The way that I interpret that was a very nice way of saying "nope you're still fired". I think the thing about asking for a room with a window or threaten to quit probably came off as "too much trouble to be worth the cost" for the team right from the start...

I'm sorry but this situation sounds like a lost cause. From what you're describing unfortunately it seems like you've burnt your bridges with the majority of the team there and people might be looking forward to getting rid of you.

Not debating whether or not this should be a fair criterion, but half of your work is based on how much people like you, with the other half being the quality of your work. I've seen many mediocre or downright incompetent or dangerous psychiatrists do well simply because they are pleasant and lovely to work with, and their coworkers and staff will bend over backwards to help them succeed.
 
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Feb 20, 2019
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Honestly not sure why they didnt let you go when you when you demanded an office with a window as a midlevel. I would have let you walk right then and there after that overt display of entitlement
 
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MacDonaldTriad

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This could drag out and go on and on because you are hard to replace, but clearly they want you out so you should move on. With all the jobs out there, why would you want to stay somewhere they don't want you? Mind your Ps and Qs at your next place.
 
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Honestly not sure why they didnt let you go when you when you demanded an office with a window as a midlevel. I would have let you walk right then and there after that overt display of entitlement
Many midlevels come in demanding things like this. I know of an NP who wanted a desk "as big as the doctors".
 
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This could drag out and go on and on because you are hard to replace, but clearly they want you out so you should move on. With all the jobs out there, why would you want to stay somewhere they don't want you? Mind your Ps and Qs at your next place.
Won't drag out. They are done with this PA. They don't care about replacement. They will absorb the patients. Still less disruptive than keeping them.
 
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pamac

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They could have just changed your passwords and walked you out the door the day they decided you weren’t a good fit. Instead they very generously allowed you to stay for 3 months (!) and risk further alienating the organization. I guess it’s possible that they find it more convenient to keep you there for coverage purposes and help the bottom line, but regardless, it’s very kind of them to allow you to draw a paycheck, look for a job while you have active employment (rather than hitting the job market with the cloud of being fired over your head; you simply will look better to prospective employers if you are currently working), and try to learn as much as you can before you leave. Use this opportunity wisely, because you could come out of the experience a more self aware individual.

You could use the next 3 months going through the humiliating process of begging them for something that they aren’t going to give you, or you can do what I’d do and break the sound barrier finding a new place to work where the entire staff doesn’t disdain you yet. I think you should lay low and enjoy your office with a view because they could easily put you in the basement for the next few months, and even more easily just show you the door and have a party after you are gone.

It’s really hard to walk back the clock after you’ve made someone angry. You might think it’s all good, but my experience is that things only get worse when we walk off and assume they are resolved. It’s usually only “resolved” for us. The other person is typically going to hold a grudge for a long time.
 

emergentmd

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I don't really see what OP did wrong. You should file an unlawful termination suit. I mean, things like this really gets under my skin how poorly workers are treated these days. I mean,

1. A PA/NP wanting an office with a Window? That should be expected, you should have asked for a personal assistant too.
2. They expect to work b/c they actually still Pay you? Crazy world we live in. Why would any boss expect someone to work that is still being paid.
3. Your name is SuperGirl? What can go wrong there?
4. They expect you to be at meetings? What is so important that they would expect a PA to attend?
5. Everyone thinks you are difficult to work with? Can't be OPs fault, they should have fired everyone else.

Whats next?
Everyone wanting 15/hr?
Everyone wanting paid sick days?
Everyone wanting maternal/paternal unlimited days?
Everyone wanting to be paid for lunch?
Everyone expecting an office with a window?

Seriously, what could go wrong?

If I were your boss, you would never been hired when you asked for an office with a window. You would not been hired even if you expected your own computer. You get what every other Low man on the totem pole would get, no more no less.

PA/NPs are a dime a dozen now, understand your worth......
 

pamac

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The PA isn’t getting let go for asking for things that another provider would get. They gave her those things without batting an eye. It’s the toxic workplace that this provider created. Physicians get canned for being a similar liability. I wanted what any other provider gets at my workplace, especially the things that contribute to me being more profitable. Give me an MA and I see more patients and bring in more money. They are making more cash off of my work than a more expensive psychiatrist anyway.
 
Feb 20, 2019
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The PA isn’t getting let go for asking for things that another provider would get. They gave her those things without batting an eye. It’s the toxic workplace that this provider created. Physicians get canned for being a similar liability. I wanted what any other provider gets at my workplace, especially the things that contribute to me being more profitable. Give me an MA and I see more patients and bring in more money. They are making more cash off of my work than a more expensive psychiatrist anyway.
I would have more issues of the overt sense of entitlement in demanding an office with a window or she quits. I mean that is a massive red flag for the start. Especially concerning that she is a midlevel making these demands of admin and real doctors
 

pamac

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If a physician came in and acted like that, is it different then?
 

pamac

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If I showed up for an interview and found out the office treated me different from the other providers just because I’m an NP (and that means arbitrarily denying me of things like parking places, access to a provider lounge, restricting my support staff from helping me, deciding I don’t need a suitable office on par with the other providers, etc), I’d find another place to work. With the amount of money I’m bringing in, I think I should be catered to a bit. If you only have so many offices with views, then sure, why not give them to the docs. But we replace physicians with NPs more often than not, so even admin is looking at the bottom line to decide who gets the spoils.
 

pamac

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Nope, I’m treated like a provider, and I get all of those things. Again, you are fixated on how someone else is treated, and if an NP is extended the same courtesy that a physician is, then somehow that’s a bad thing? What a bigoted approach. Do you classify everyone around you that way, or is it somehow simply limited to the workspace where NPs get treated well? Are the “help” that bring you your food put on a similar spectrum? What about folks on the street? Your patients? Probably.... my guess is that the world is pretty black and white for you, and respect is filed out to those around you according to their station life, as judged by you.
 

sb247

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Nope, I’m treated like a provider, and I get all of those things. Again, you are fixated on how someone else is treated, and if an NP is extended the same courtesy that a physician is, then somehow that’s a bad thing? What a bigoted approach. Do you classify everyone around you that way, or is it somehow simply limited to the workspace where NPs get treated well? Are the “help” that bring you your food put on a similar spectrum? What about folks on the street? Your patients? Probably.... my guess is that the world is pretty black and white for you, and respect is filed out to those around you according to their station life, as judged by you.
You want to know if the uber eats guy gets a window office?
 
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emergentmd

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Nope, I’m treated like a provider, and I get all of those things. Again, you are fixated on how someone else is treated, and if an NP is extended the same courtesy that a physician is, then somehow that’s a bad thing? What a bigoted approach. Do you classify everyone around you that way, or is it somehow simply limited to the workspace where NPs get treated well? Are the “help” that bring you your food put on a similar spectrum? What about folks on the street? Your patients? Probably.... my guess is that the world is pretty black and white for you, and respect is filed out to those around you according to their station life, as judged by you.

The answer is know your place in life and know your place on the totem pole. That applies to everyone - Docs, NP, PA, RN, Rad Tech, sanitation, Paramedics, Engineer, plumber, starbucks employee, etc.

If you walk in and there is an empty office with window and they deny it to you while all NP/PA has one, then yeah you prob need to leave unless there is a good reason.

If you walk in and all NP/PA has an office window and there are no Office window rooms left, then Yeah you get whatever is left. How hard is that to understand? You are low man on totem pole and take what is left.

If a Doc gets hired then PA/NP should give up the next best office.
 

pamac

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“Know your place in life”.... lol!

The hypotheticals are always fun to explore, but sure, why not give a physician a decent office. Nobody has a problem with that. It’s about extending courtesy to the folks that bring in added value.

The problem is the attitude that some folks here seem to have where it’s not that they as physicians have it so bad, but some are bent out of shape because someone else might have it good. The difference there is the difference between a reasonable person and a D bag. Just decide where you fit into that continuum.
 
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“Know your place in life”.... lol!

The hypotheticals are always fun to explore, but sure, why not give a physician a decent office. Nobody has a problem with that. It’s about extending courtesy to the folks that bring in added value.

The problem is the attitude that some folks here seem to have where it’s not that they as physicians have it so bad, but some are bent out of shape because someone else might have it good. The difference there is the difference between a reasonable person and a D bag. Just decide where you fit into that continuum.
Knowing you place seems to be a foundational part of not being a d bag. It’s not a pejorative but a life skill a lot of people seem to lack.
 

pamac

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Likewise, telling people that they “need to know their place” as a pejorative is a foundational part of being a D bag.

That kind of attitude, when expressed in the way demonstrated here, exposes a condescension that likely extends beyond just a disdain for “midlevels”. It shows up with your patients, coworkers, subordinates, colleagues, family members... pretty much anyone that you think isn’t “in their place”. Keep reinforcing that. It’s instructive. Probably not for you guys. But it’s the reason admins are turning you all into employees. You own peers are making those decisions to do that so they can make bonuses as medical directors. It’s not NPs and PAs doing this to the physician community. It’s the market, with a little bit of help from that kind of hubris. Guess who also wants a big house and a nice car? An administrator somewhere.
 

IknowImnotadoctor

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Midlevels are taught they are better than physicians. I am not kidding.
Are we? I wasn't. I was taught to respect the training and experience of physicians and learn as much as I possibly can from them since they are the experts in the diagnosis and treatment of disease. Half of my lectures in my actual NP courses were given by physicians. The things you are posting are pretty offensive to be honest, especially since you are posting them in the NP/PA forum.
 
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Are we? I wasn't. I was taught to respect the training and experience of physicians and learn as much as I possibly can from them since they are the experts in the diagnosis and treatment of disease. Half of my lectures in my actual NP courses were given by physicians. The things you are posting are pretty offensive to be honest, especially since you are posting them in the NP/PA forum.
I apologize. I am speaking from the information given that the original poster gave who is a PA, and the experiences of myself and other physician colleagues.
 
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pamac

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Marketing catchphrase for you is “give us everything and we’ll give you what’s left.... if we think you deserve it.”
 
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