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Linguistically it's documented that when angered, or very happy, bilinguals usually code-switch mid-sentence and unpredictably, usually to give emphasis.
Any hispanic applicants who look white and dont know what to put down
- Thread starter TexasFool
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Cubans are definitely not underrepresented in medicine -- they are one of the groups who have a greater representation in medicine than their proportion of the population...
Due to immigration patterns (Cubans traditionally came as educated professionals and political refugees -including doctors-, rather than for economic reasons ie jobs, although this has changed through time), Cubans have largely been one of the most integrated Latino groups into mainstream American society, education, business etc...Included in this is a much higher rate of intermarriage with Americans than other Latino groups.
There are plenty of doctors and med students who are Cuban or part Cuban, proud to be, and it's a big part of their heritage and lives.....But you'd never in a million years know they're Latino by looking at them. I am one of them.
My father was American, and I look like my father...I therefore neither look Latino nor have a Spanish name. But my dad left when I was two...I was raised by my mom and grandparents. Cuban culture was a big part of my childhood, and I'm proud of my heritage...But still, people would never know unless I tell them.
As has been said on here, all of Latin America, from Mexico, to the Caribbean, to the tip of South America is a huge, diverse place, with a long, varied histories largely consisting of mixing and tradeoffs between many distinct cultures. It's a far more diverse place than most people in the US realize, because people know only what they see...But making generalizations about the entire group is just as flawed about making generalizations about all people of Asian descent, whether from northern China, the Pacific Islands, or the Indian subcontinent.
Skin color is just as flawed of a marker of Latino-ness...The range of skin colors south of the US is just as great as the range of skin colors in the US, ranging from snow white, blonde haired and blue eyed, to pitch black. Many nations in Latin America have a history of race much like our own, including European immigration, various degrees of eliminating the indigenous populations, and the legacy of African slaves. But our perceptions of what it means to be Latino, what they look like, etc, are very largely colored by the demographics of immigration to this country...which causes you to miss a great deal of the story.
Great to see all the Cubans on here, by the way!
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Sometimes it happens unconsciously. The other day I was writing my grocery list, and I didn't realize I switched languages until after I had finished it. It went something like this:
Tomatoes, Bananas, Cereal, Milk, Oatmeal, Jugo, Servilletas, Jabon.
It wasn't until I read it later that I noticed the change.
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I'm just joking, even thought that thing in my avatar looks mean, I'm normally pretty nice.
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What are you talking about? That little lizard is cute, not mean.
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Sometimes it happens unconsciously. The other day I was writing my grocery list, and I didn't realize I switched languages until after I had finished it. It went something like this:
Tomatoes, Bananas, Cereal, Milk, Oatmeal, Jugo, Servilletas, Jabon.
It wasn't until I read it later that I noticed the change.
I've had conversations sometimes where I think back and can't remember what language we were talking in.
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Sometimes it happens unconsciously. The other day I was writing my grocery list, and I didn't realize I switched languages until after I had finished it. It went something like this:
Tomatoes, Bananas, Cereal, Milk, Oatmeal, Jugo, Servilletas, Jabon.
It wasn't until I read it later that I noticed the change.
The best is with old people, who in my experience eventually reach the point they can no longer fully speak English or Spanish..Spanglish need not be the result of laziness or ineducation...Sometimes it's just because one language is truly your language, the one you know and love and grew up with, and the other has simply been ubiqitous around you since you came to this country 50 years ago...No matter who my grandpa is talking to, whether its one of his Cuban buddies or the American taking his order at a restaurant, it's half in Spanish and half in English. He is an intelligent, educated man, a physician in fact, but I'm quite certain he doesn't even realize it anymore. I'm fully convinced that this is the language in which he dreams.
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You just described my grandparents and a large part of the older people in my family. lol
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I know, I know. Many of my older relatives (the part of my family that actually grew up in the US) do that, and it doesn't sound bad at all. They are all educated people as well.
As a matter of fact, I wrote a little something about this not long ago ( http://discussitwiththepillow.blogspot.com/2006/09/homesick.html
I guess I just hate it when people do it because they think that makes them a real "Latino/Hispanic." I feel that, many times, it just serves to perpetuate stereotypes of Latinos being uneducated or bad English speakers. But that's not always the case.
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lol, I knew it didn't look mean enough.
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No, I am not... far from it... LOL. I am DEAD SEXYYYYYYY....... LOL, for real though I am a true Latino and have made love for all my Latino's and Italiano's out there...
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I totally agree...
I think it just speaks to what I said before...Many people have a VERY narrow definition of what it means to be Latino...Unfortunately, this often includes Latinos themselves.
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First Off, I think Latino's are the most beautiful people on the planet... that said, they are the most beautiful because of their mixture... The only part I don't like are the RACIST pric Latino's that are prejudice torwards other races including their own latin brothers and sisters... You know who you are and you know what I am talking about... That is the only part that really upsets me...
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I don't think what I said is racist at all. I think it's a simple truth that there are some Latinos who have a very narrow definition of the race, and take it upon themselves to decide who is and who is not Latino enough according to their definitions.
All I've ever said on here is that the group is far more internally diverse than people realize. I am completely with you that this mixture is a great deal of what I love about the group.
I hope you were not referring to me. Were you?
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I completely agree.
I'm probably the only Hispanic in my school who has not joined the Hispanic Association. Why? Because I HATE LABELS, especially the ones these people take upon putting on themselves. For example speaking Spanglish just for the sake of it (which I never do), etc.
The other day I get an e-mail inviting me to a free dinner/picnic event for Hispanic students in my college, and at the bottom of the e-mail was the phrase "And the best of all, it's free! Cuz we minorities be poor."
They later sent an e-mail apologizing for it, but the fact that it got written and sent by someone in the first place just goes to show how these people view themselves. I don't want to be part of a group that helps maintain a stupid stereotype (I think I've established clearly that I hate stereotypes, for any race/ethnic group).
People always get on my back when I tell them I'm not in this Hispanic Association. Or they ask me how come I never use Spanish words (I do, but not mixed with English). I can tell that they are thinking I'm racist against my own group, but the truth is, I was born and lived in Mexico for a long time, so if someone knows what the GOOD culture is all about in Mexico it is me (and not some kid who was born-raised in the US).
Maybe I should make my own "Mexican Student Association" and teach my members the REAL and good culture of my country. Not the stupid music and lame events these people come up with.
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no not at all and you are completly correct... It is a shame within the Latino culture...
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First thing, word up to all the latinos out there. I'm glad the topic of hispanic stereotypes is at least being discussed. I think it is important to recognize the differences among hispanics, and to take pride in your identity. But I think commonalities among latinos are often overlooked. What defines culture most is language, and spanish is the language that binds us all. There is a great deal of racism internally within many S.America/C.American countries, and I feel those here in the US have a responsibility to work as one to represent all latinos.
Beside that I have a serious question, so my father is a white american and my mother is peruvian (mostly indigenous prob w/ some euro mix). Being peruvian has been an important part of my life, I've traveled there almost every 2-3yrs since I born (tons of relatives there, abuelos, tios,tias primos,) and thankfully my parents forced my brother and I to speak spanish and english with equal emphasis. 👍
So I consider myself "hispanic", but I would not necessarily consider myself "white", I think "brown" or (white and native american) would be a better term. Furthermore, I dont count as a URM because I'm not Puerto rican or Mexican right? And does native american mean only NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS, or does it include south American indians?
What do you guys think I should put? 😱
Beside that I have a serious question, so my father is a white american and my mother is peruvian (mostly indigenous prob w/ some euro mix). Being peruvian has been an important part of my life, I've traveled there almost every 2-3yrs since I born (tons of relatives there, abuelos, tios,tias primos,) and thankfully my parents forced my brother and I to speak spanish and english with equal emphasis. 👍
So I consider myself "hispanic", but I would not necessarily consider myself "white", I think "brown" or (white and native american) would be a better term. Furthermore, I dont count as a URM because I'm not Puerto rican or Mexican right? And does native american mean only NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS, or does it include south American indians?
What do you guys think I should put? 😱
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I'm half Cuban and as white as can be (though not a blonde Cameron Diaz). The first question I usually get is "Is your mom white?" meaning "How did you get so white?" My Cuban dad and grandmother happen to be as white as can be as well. Ancestors from NW Spain--the part that didn't get taken over by the Moors.
For AMCAS I put white for race and Hispanic-other-Cuban for ethnicity. As long as you are half hispanic you qualify to put that... although it doesn't make any difference to me because URM doesn't include Cubans for med school (although it did for undergrad). I didn't check URM.
In the last census something like 80% of mainland Puerto Ricans put white for race. Most of the rest put indian although there is a question to whether or not the indians were killed before they had any children with the conquerors. I must say that not 80% of mainlanders are white, which tells you something about the stigma there.
Btw I love this thread! It's nice to talk with people who get it!!
Oh, and I also dislike the work Latino/latina and it's connotations.
And sadly I was a Spanish major, because although my dad and grandmother spoke spanish amongst themselves, they never did to me. I'm one of those products of the parents who no longer see the use for the language here and want their children to be 100% american (stupid!!! that cost them my education.. haha) although we've upheld many traditions and it has been a key part of my identity. With regard to Spanish--I can understand it all, read it all, but speak only like i've been taught in undergrad.
For AMCAS I put white for race and Hispanic-other-Cuban for ethnicity. As long as you are half hispanic you qualify to put that... although it doesn't make any difference to me because URM doesn't include Cubans for med school (although it did for undergrad). I didn't check URM.
In the last census something like 80% of mainland Puerto Ricans put white for race. Most of the rest put indian although there is a question to whether or not the indians were killed before they had any children with the conquerors. I must say that not 80% of mainlanders are white, which tells you something about the stigma there.
Btw I love this thread! It's nice to talk with people who get it!!
Oh, and I also dislike the work Latino/latina and it's connotations.
And sadly I was a Spanish major, because although my dad and grandmother spoke spanish amongst themselves, they never did to me. I'm one of those products of the parents who no longer see the use for the language here and want their children to be 100% american (stupid!!! that cost them my education.. haha) although we've upheld many traditions and it has been a key part of my identity. With regard to Spanish--I can understand it all, read it all, but speak only like i've been taught in undergrad.
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Wow, that's similar to what's happening to my grandmother! She's 90 and highly educated but her english is going down fast. She doesn't mix the languages, but she is starting to sound like a person who's spoken english for only a few years. forgetting words, using wrong verbs, etc. her spanish, however, is perfect. she came over when she was around 45.
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I think a lot of mainland puerto ricans do it to prove they know english well and because english is in the media everywhere influencing what's cool. I rarely hear it in the US...? that may be just me
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I don't know about Puerto Ricans (since there aren't many where I live...none that I know, at least). I guess proving to others you speak English can be a reason.
In Mexico, though, I notice many people who move here when they are older (15+) go back there and pretend they've forgotten Spanish, mix the language, or talk with an accent. That is bullcrap, since once you reach a certain age there's no way you forget your first language, especially if that is still what you speak with your family. Also, many of the people born here and raised here mix the languages to identify themselves as "Latinos" or "Chicanos" or what have you (don't get me started on my hatred for both terms). It bothers me that they help perpetuate stereotypes, that's all.
I pride myself in being able to speak both languages right...there's no reason for me to ruin either one by mixing it with another.
And hey, we are going to be UT-SW classmates next year! Nice to meet you. 🙂
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It does tell something about the stigma there, and sadly that sort of latent racism is pervasive throughout latin america. Many "white" hispanics/latinos(pick your term) undermine their indigenous roots or all together deny any heritage that would be associated with the "indios". The fact is that a social hierarchy exists that is based on the pigment of your skin, and or the degree of your perceived "europeaness". I have traveled to peru, ecuador, chile, argentina, and mexico. You will find the same thing, extreme disparity in wealth that correlates to racial ancestry and skin tone, "Whites" generally are wealthiest, mestizos are next, followed by indigenous groups last (to a much lesser degree in argentina & chile, because of predominantly european ancestry).
I tend to reject any sort of definition of what it truly means to be hispanic, but to me language and identifying culture are the two defining factors. I wouldn't consider a pure mayan from mexico as hispanic, firstly because he/she would probably speak mayan, and secondly they would identify primarily with their indigenous traditions, which are unique in of themselves. The same would go for a pure quechua speaking indigenous peruvian. But to an American what would they be? Probably hispanic. In the same sense, I feel purely indigenous peruvian or indigenous mexican can be considered hispanic if that is the culture and language they have adapted to, which many have.
Yes, there are many "white" cubans, peruvians, mexicans, puerto ricans, colombians, ect, and many live in the US. There are also many mestizo/primarily indigenous hispanics as well (primarily mexicans, in CA, TX, NM ect) No one group owns the identity "hispanic", but due to their vast numbers, the identity of hispanic has become synonymous with the migrant worker/laborer/illegal alein, which more often than not happen to be dark skinned. But this does not make them more or less hispanic.
As one who proudly shares both white and indigenous roots I promote any pride in hispanic culture, and embrace all my latino/a brothers and sisters no mattter their skin color.
So there you go, that is my spiel on race,color,and hispanic/latino culture, and I know it probably doesn't belong in this forum, but who cares?
PS: I forgot to mention afro-latino's, they also exist in practically every latinamerican country, including peru.
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I've got an easy solution for all of this let's get rid of these questions on medical school applications. Any student at an undergrad institution has the same chances no matter what their race/creed maybe.The bigger problem is getting underprivileged students into undergrad programs..
cheers
howie
cheers
howie
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Hispanic women are the most beautiful in the world. Why? Who knows really. It can't be genetics...or can it? After all, Hispanics are one of the most diverse people in the world. There are Spanish/native mixed people (mestizos), those of African descent, Hispanics who are German-descended and are blonde/blue-eyed, etc. The list goes on. Maybe it's all the mixing that takes the best from each group of people and makes one really attractive overall package? Random comment, I know, but I used to think about it a lot and still don't know why. Perhaps I'm also biased because I have lived in Miami my whole life. But the truth is that Hispanic women (in my opinion) always beat out the others.
Maybe it's the food...it has to be something in the food.
In case anyone doubts me, click the link below. Spend 30 seconds on the site, and I dare you to tell me I'm wrong.
https://www.vidasworld.com/vworld.php
I thought so. Ok, now REALLY back to studying. Enough procrastination.
Maybe it's the food...it has to be something in the food.
In case anyone doubts me, click the link below. Spend 30 seconds on the site, and I dare you to tell me I'm wrong.
https://www.vidasworld.com/vworld.php
I thought so. Ok, now REALLY back to studying. Enough procrastination.
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Stock I agree that these things shouldn't be based just on race. However, any student at an undergrad does not have the same chances. You stated that a big problem is getting underpriveleged students into undergrad, which is definitely a problem. THere is also a problem when underpriveleged students Do get into undergrad and they have to compete with those who were priveleged. Grades play a big factor in med school qualifications and if students were underpriveleged and learned next to nothing prior to matriculating to undergrad, then it is much harder to compete in the same classes as priveleged students who have strong backgrounds in gen bio, gen chem and physics before reaching undergrad.
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I'm whiter than a lot of "white" Americans around here. I look hispanic from a mile away though lol. I had no problems in any of my interviews regarding this. Also note I'm Puertorrican and thus an URM.
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There is no URM option. You can't "check" URM as someone suggested below. Look at your AMCAS, there's just race, ethnicity, and disadvantaged y/n. The AAMC decides who's underrepresented and who's not. I'm half Puerto Rican, my first language was Spanish, I certainly identify with the culture (visit family twice a year there), but I look white as paper, and I put the same as you (and said disadvantaged: no). Only, because of my Puerto Rican heritage, I get treated as a minority applicant. It's a weird system, but it is intended to recruit physicans in proportion to the populations they serve (and there happens to be a large population of Mexicans and Puerto Ricans).
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I have a question. I am Mexican-American as well and I too have really white skin. But I know for a fact that I am not 100 percent Spanish. For this reason I tried to check off the "Native American" box, because, Mayans were the Natives of our part of North America. But it asked for identification number, so I figured out it was for tribes in the north )e.g. US Canada.....So I ended up checking the Mexican-American box for ethnicity and white for race. I have dark hair and my skin isn't exactly porcelein white, does this cross out the URM status and will the interviewers wonder why I wrote solely "white" race when I am clearly part Mayan?
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Well, it IS Latin America......but don't bite anyone's head off for saying things like that. If I know someone's Mexican, I'll call them Mexican, but if I'm in doubt, then I'll throw one of those buzzwords out there.
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Funny you say that because most of my Hispanic non-mexican friends absolutely HATE it, when other people call them Mexican. You'll immediate hear a dignified "I'm not Mexican! I'm from Peru/Honduras/Guatemala/Whathaveyou".
I think Carlos Mencia once said (not that I like his rants a lot of the time, mister let's-perpetuate-stereotypes...but sometimes he tells the truth): If you live in Texas, you're Mexican. If you go to Miami, you're Cuban. If you go to New York, you're Puerto Rican.
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fotografía;4649754 said:
I didn't think there was a box, but I didn't remember. Thanks for clearing that up, I thought I was going crazy.
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This is a good website to go to for those who don't get it...
http://www.lasculturas.com/aa/aa070501a.htm
Although, I sort of disagree that they think "Latino" is more all encompassing than "Hispanic." I guess you could say I'm one of those "conservative Cubans" they talk about, although I'm liberal.
Basically labeling is convenient for those who need to generalize or those who need a way to label their identity. That's all fine and good, but those words are never all-inclusive and although people from Spanish-speaking countries fit the literal definitions, they don't necessarily fit the public's narrower understanding of what these words mean. And the public can sometimes be ignorant and racist, so many don't want to fit the public's narrow meaning for these words.
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Well then should I put hispanic down because I'm haitian? Lol that'd be cool.
The spaniards didn't completely wipe out all of the indigenious people. Some mixed with the slaves that were brought over from Africa. I know cause my grandmother is a descendant of the Arawak people (I don't want to say indians cause I find that insulting being that their not from India).
To the OP I think you should be true to yourself and put down what you're comfortable with. As long as your not trying to pass off as something you're not then I don't see the problem. Its not as if you're saying you're not hispanic. You're just saying you look white.
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Frikarika,
I was in the same situation when I did my AMCAS last July...I debated the issue, talked to people, did not know what to do. I do not have the priviledge to look white like other hispanics in this forum(unfortunately, in this society it is STILL a priviledge and I have many many many examples from my own life where I suffered from discrimination because of my looks). My background is a mixture of italian, black, and indigenous blood. Of all, I look mestizo/indigenous, but AMCAS does not have that option for those of us who do not belong to a native american group in the US. I did not want to check out "white" because I do not belong in that category (nor will I ever feel like one) so I checked the one where you refuse to answer. Nobody ever asked me about my decision (and I have gone to quite a few interviews), and I think it is because I was born in Latin America and perceived as one of those 100% Hispanic, both by culture and looks. Therefore, what you put in AMCAS does not really matter as much.
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Oh, I know. God forbid you insinuate that a Spaniard is Mexican. They might kill you on the spot. At first, I thought it might be crass to refer to people as Mexicans, but any (actual) Mexican I know doesn't have a problem with it. But only use it if you're sure they're Mexican!
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Heh, at one of my interviews there was an interviewee who was actually half jewish and half puerto rican, and she definitely was very very light skinned (like super easy sunburn light). And I just remember her constantly asking questions about the latino community.
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Yeah, we were discussing the negative connotations of the word "Mexican" on another thread not to long ago. It ended with me saying "It's a freaking nationality! Not an insult!"
I stand by that, unfortunately it's come to have a bad connotation. Grrrr.
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Yup I'm half mexi 🙂 and I don't look it at all. I also don't speak spanish either (but am learning) although my father has a very thick accent. I'm not sure what I'll put, probably what they call "hispanic" since I'm told many school want minorities, but I'm not sure we count as a minority 😉
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My dad came from India when he was 19. Doesn't that make me an URM?
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haha my dad makes up his own words or uses the same words for different things.
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I have a story to tell. . .
At one of my Med school interviews, the faculty member asked why I put that I was Mexican-American. I told him because my mother is 100% mexican and moved here at the age of 20. Then, the interviewer insinuated that I was hardly Mexican then.
He then proceeded to ask what connections I had to Mexican medicine.
I looked at him puzzled, so he went on to ask what experience, if any, I had with hispanic clinics/mexican hospitals, etc. I said none, but that my whole family lives there, and I visit every other year.
He then changed the subject.
Can you say AWKWARD!!!! I felt like a leper!! I mean, if you don't want mexican americans at your school unless they have some kind of super-mexican medical powers, then why did I get an interview?
I have been holding onto this for months, so any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated. I am feeling pretty low about the whole situation and am REALLY wishing I had just hidden behind my white-looking skin.
Please, give me some feedback!!😳
At one of my Med school interviews, the faculty member asked why I put that I was Mexican-American. I told him because my mother is 100% mexican and moved here at the age of 20. Then, the interviewer insinuated that I was hardly Mexican then.
He then proceeded to ask what connections I had to Mexican medicine.
I looked at him puzzled, so he went on to ask what experience, if any, I had with hispanic clinics/mexican hospitals, etc. I said none, but that my whole family lives there, and I visit every other year.
He then changed the subject.
Can you say AWKWARD!!!! I felt like a leper!! I mean, if you don't want mexican americans at your school unless they have some kind of super-mexican medical powers, then why did I get an interview?
I have been holding onto this for months, so any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated. I am feeling pretty low about the whole situation and am REALLY wishing I had just hidden behind my white-looking skin.
Please, give me some feedback!!😳
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HaHa I saw this thread and had to post b/c my friend is in a similar situation. She's half Mexican but looks white...blue eyes, freckles, the works. Anyway, I think for race she answered "white" and for ethnicity she answered "Hispanic."
Now me, I'm a mut...Spanish, Mayan, German, French...it's a long story. I didn't know what to answer for the race question so I left it blank. Otherwise I may as well have checked every box. For the ethnicity question I answered "hispanic" b/c culturally I'm closest to that (I guess).
My 2 cents on the "Hispanic or Latino thing: I don't care which people refer to me as and it cracks me up how people get their underwear in knots over it. Just like I can't distinguish b/w someone who's Korean or Japanese, I don't expect people to be able to tell where I'm from or how to "properly" categorize/label me (whatever that means). I just think life is too short and there are more important things to worry about.
P.S. My boyfriend is Korean, so if we get married our kids will be ???
Oh & drdan766, I wouldn't worry about that interview too much. My interviewer at USC asked me if I could speak any Mayan dialect...yeah, right I laughed. I'm waitlisted there now so I don't think questions of the sort should be taken as too much of an indicator of anything. Hope that helps.
Now me, I'm a mut...Spanish, Mayan, German, French...it's a long story. I didn't know what to answer for the race question so I left it blank. Otherwise I may as well have checked every box. For the ethnicity question I answered "hispanic" b/c culturally I'm closest to that (I guess).
My 2 cents on the "Hispanic or Latino thing: I don't care which people refer to me as and it cracks me up how people get their underwear in knots over it. Just like I can't distinguish b/w someone who's Korean or Japanese, I don't expect people to be able to tell where I'm from or how to "properly" categorize/label me (whatever that means). I just think life is too short and there are more important things to worry about.
P.S. My boyfriend is Korean, so if we get married our kids will be ???
Oh & drdan766, I wouldn't worry about that interview too much. My interviewer at USC asked me if I could speak any Mayan dialect...yeah, right I laughed. I'm waitlisted there now so I don't think questions of the sort should be taken as too much of an indicator of anything. Hope that helps.
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MAYBE you should go read a history book. you don't know what you're talking about.
You left out Africans. Asians. Other Europeans.
It's a shame, rich white latinos steal opportunities away from our people who need it. The majority of us are a mixed of everything.
Spaniards should mark down white and leave us alone.
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