Any Mednax employees out there?

[deleted899865]

Several of the locations I'm looking at are staffed by Mednax/ American Anesthesiology. Can anyone at one of their groups- specifically NC, speak about them? Their stock is dropping the last 5 years so I am worried about their "employee stock purchase plan". Seems like a loss of money.

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[Mikkel]

A mednax job was one I was considering after residency.

In a large major metro area in the southeast, with substantial call burden in trauma centers, 4:1 CRNA, I was offered a three year "partnership" track: $250k first year, $275 second year, $300 third year, then $350k "partner" salary.

I wanted to tell them so badly "go f*** yourselves for wasting my time."

It's an AMC... It's not worth it, no matter how much you try to convince yourself.

 

[bigdan]

My Mednax offer (in 2015, for full disclosure) in highly desirable NC was $210, $220, $230, and then year 4 “partner” at “we think $400,000”.

**** off. I couldn’t get to my email fast enough to turn that down. The interview guy called to apologize that it “didn’t work out”. Indeed - making more than a CRNA wasn’t going to “work out” for me there.

 

[Pharmado]

2016-desirable area in TN. 220/270/320/370 then “pay equality” in year 5. That pay was around 440 at the time. No 401k, decent vacation. I have zero idea how these places find anyone to work these jobs.

there does seem to be some respectable pay from some AMCs, but I’ve not seen any from Mednax.

 

[deleted899865]

Thank you. I figured it was pretty bad.

 

[BLADEMDA]

USAP then Team Health then Envision then Mednax. Mednax is the worst of the bunch so avoid if at all possible.

 

[ERRES2288]

Any info about Mednax groups in Michigan? I can’t believe some people actually take those offers posted above. It’s bad for the specialty to settle for such terrible pay.

 

[caligas]

Just for fun: 2012, satellite location about an hour outside major SE metro, q4 call, all supervision, 6 weeks off. $280k with future cost of living adjustment.

(Took PP job in small town making $500k including profit sharing.)

 

[Ready_User_1]

We should start a sticky with a running list of all these parasitic AMCs and their bull**** offers and work conditions. They must carry around their balls in a wheel-barrel to have the audacity to make those offers.

 

[Lecithin5]

CRNAs make as much or even more than some of these amc offers. Geez

 

[Neopolymath]

Can't remember numbers but just spent a month in Atl at two of their sites and all the docs looked unhappy as hell. Hell, even the anesthetists looked unhappy.

 

[aneftp]

Unfortunately a lot of people are “stuck” with family, kids etc. I think it’s easy when we are single or don’t have kids to just get up and move. Unless u are from a small town to began with. It’s hard to convince a spouse. Maybe both working parents with family in major metro area to get up and move.

I got up and moved from a major top 5-6 population area BEFORE kids when I was single. That was easy to take a better job. Now that I’m settled down. Kids have their friends in school. It takes a lot more to get up and move again.

yes. Mednax has gotten really bad. It used to be a high flyer from 2009-2012. Ive never worked for an AMC was w2 employee. But the guys that sold out made out like bandits especially the very early sellers to mednax.....

so saying usap is the best right now is correct of all the amc. Wait another 5 years and see how usap is doing.

 

[dabears505]

I had an offer right out of residency in a suburb of a large midwest city for 350 plus benefits. Up 25 k a year and then you kax out at 400 essentially.

 

[Noyac]

USAP is paying more than any of these posted numbers as far as I can tell. But as with all AMC’s the benefits are shat.

 

[Twiggidy]

Any info about Mednax groups in Michigan? I can’t believe some people actually take those offers posted above. It’s bad for the specialty to settle for such terrible pay.

It's bad but when you've been a student/resident for 8-9 years and have debt/kids/wives/mortgages/ties to an area, you have to put food on the table and a roof over your head. Even for an eager graduating CA3, 250k looks a whole lot better than 50k, plus it's not like all the "good private practices" are always hiring. AMCs are typically always hiring for a reason.

 

[Mikkel]

It's bad but when you've been a student/resident for 8-9 years and have debt/kids/wives/mortgages/ties to an area, you have to put food on the table and a roof over your head. Even for an eager graduating CA3, 250k looks a whole lot better than 50k, plus it's not like all the "good private practices" are always hiring. AMCs are typically always hiring for a reason.

The purpose of threads like this is to give perspective to graduating residents about what salaries are available. If nobody has the information to make an informed decision, the crappy employers will have the power.

I'd recommend to anyone finishing residency to go wherever it takes to make the most money to pay off your debts and save for a future job in a more ideal location. Search for private practice jobs in the meantime and pounce when the moment is right.

$400k+ for fresh graduates is perfectly reasonable to expect.

 

[Pharmado]

As a resident when I was looking for a job, no one in my residency would provide assistance and no one could tell me how much I should expect to make. So I kept a record of every practice I talked to, how much they were offering and job details. I made a spread sheet and shared it openly with everyone. My younger colleagues all thought that 250k with 4 weeks vacation sounded awesome. Transparency hurts the AMCs, and helps us.

 

[deleted899865]

What about a buy in? Does anyone know if there is a forced amount of stock you have to buy for Mednax like USAP makes you do. USAP I believe is a $125,000 buy in of a stock that is unlisted and no one knows the share price.... Mednax stock is crashing but at least it is public.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

How do academic gigs look in comparison to the above mednax offers?

 

[Twiggidy]

How do academic gigs look in comparison to the above mednax offers?

For the most part TOTAL PACKAGES seem to range anywhere from 300-400k, maybe a 25k bump if you're fellowship trained. The key words here are total package, in which a benefits package can range from something like 75-125k depending on how good the benefits are. I was looking into an institution 400k total package as a cardiac anesthesiologist is what I was quoted. Many PP cardiac guys would laugh themselves stupid at that but there's a lot to factor in, ie, COL, amount of actual work hours, amount of call, home vs in house, etc. Something I do know is that the number seems to not change much base on high vs low COL area. I believe academic jobs in NYC are also paying about 300-350 total package.

The silver lining of a predatory AMC paying you the same as an academic institution is that at the AMC you won't have the academic responsibilities, even if it's just teaching residents a little, but the pressure to grind out cases will be higher, which leads many to be unhappy working at these places. You're working your tail off and not really making out any better than your colleague at UofX who covers two rooms and has 'academic time' *notice the quotes*.

I'm basing this on my residency in particular which is maybe a good academic gig if you don't have crazy expectations, but some definitely bailed for higher (ish) salaries.

 

[Twiggidy]

Of note, it should also be mentioned that there are some out there who have no desire/drive to make partner. They literally just want a job that pays them a check and let's them go home. I heard that directly quoted from a few when I was graduating, so in essence, that's also how a lot of these "bad AMCs" keep employees. I would make a guess that many have partners with good jobs, or they lack high debt, or whatever other factor that doesn't make money a driving force in their life.

 

[Mikkel]

How do academic gigs look in comparison to the above mednax offers?

$225-275k standard starting base, all the way to $600k+ for chairs, directors. Mid career maybe $325k?

 

[AdmiralChz]

$225-275k standard starting base, all the way to $600k+ for chairs, directors. Mid career maybe $325k?

This is much more in line with what I saw when I briefly considered academics. And this is total compensation. The ONLY folks breaking 400 were division heads and vice chairs.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

$225-275k standard starting base, all the way to $600k+ for chairs, directors. Mid career maybe $325k?

This is sad unfortunately

 

[sevoflurane]

This is sad unfortunately

Most AMCs will easily do better than this. Even the one mentioned in this thread.
Like I've said before, what was there prior to acquisition largely determines what is there after acquisition.
Groups don't get paid the same under any specific AMC. Lot's of variability within AMCs.
400k Starting with 8+ weeks isn't unheard of (md only/no buy in/or partnership track).

 

[TexasDoc2388]

This is much more in line with what I saw when I briefly considered academics. And this is total compensation. The ONLY folks breaking 400 were division heads and vice chairs.

We start at 300+ at my spot. I’ve seen a lot of academic jobs in the mid 300s and some 400s. Just matters what the location is.

 

[IMGASMD]

Mid to high 300s. Call was something like one first a week, post call off. Two weekends a month. (One first, one second). You pay for health insurance. 401k match but vest in 3-5 years.

Some kind of overtime schedule, originally was 200/hr. After the come to Jesus meeting, it was changed.

The stock option was something like 20% off, but you can’t sell until 6 months after purchase. Or something like that.

 

[dchz]

Some kind of overtime schedule, originally was 200/hr. After the come to Jesus meeting, it was changed.

Changed to what?

 

[caligas]

Don’t you get like 4 weeks vacation in academics? I take off a week a month, so that would be a bit of an adjustment!

 

[Justice4all]

Academic mid 300s with 8 weeks vacation

 

[anes121508]

As a resident when I was looking for a job, no one in my residency would provide assistance and no one could tell me how much I should expect to make. So I kept a record of every practice I talked to, how much they were offering and job details. I made a spread sheet and shared it openly with everyone. My younger colleagues all thought that 250k with 4 weeks vacation sounded awesome. Transparency hurts the AMCs, and helps us.

If I could like this 100 times I would

 

[anes121508]

Most AMCs will easily do better than this. Even the one mentioned in this thread.
Like I've said before, what was there prior to acquisition largely determines what is there after acquisition.
Groups don't get paid the same under any specific AMC. Lot's of variability within AMCs.
400k Starting with 8+ weeks isn't unheard of (md only/no buy in/or partnership track).

400k 8wks amc , Midwest

Sounded great at first.

Now the pay is getting cut, the call is increasing, the staffing ratio is going to 4:1, hours are increasing.

F the AMC

We need to figure out how to ban together and cripple them.

 

[Mikkel]

400k 8wks amc , Midwest

Sounded great at first.

Now the pay is getting cut, the call is increasing, the staffing ratio is going to 4:1, hours are increasing.

F the AMC

We need to figure out how to ban together and cripple them.

Sounds like private equity.

 

[IMGASMD]

I am all for openness and transparencies. A lot of these companies also have confidentiality built in their contract.

It’s also hard to really negotiate when you know someone out there “may” undercut you in the process.

Not as easy as just publish the data and let it be sorted out.

 

[12th man]

I worked for Mednax for 7 years as part Irish f my buyout obligation. Loved the partners I worked with. Learned a lot over that time with an AMC. We argued for $350k (made $535 k before buyout). You will work more but not make any more for it.
I’m now employed by a hospital and am much happier.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Mednax is the worst of the AMCs. They have lost more contracts than any of the other large AMCs over the past 3 years. They pay poorly and offer piss poor benefits.

 

[BLADEMDA]

400k 8wks amc , Midwest

Sounded great at first.

Now the pay is getting cut, the call is increasing, the staffing ratio is going to 4:1, hours are increasing.

F the AMC

We need to figure out how to ban together and cripple them.

As long as the next idiot will take the job the AMC will keep churning and burning new grads. Low pay and bad benefits with lots of call combined with supervision of crnas. I truly feel bad for those stuck in the dead end AMC job.

 

[nycitygas]

Although I’m sure Mednax has some crappy sites, North Star is much worse.

 

[dchz]

Although I’m sure Mednax has some crappy sites, North Star is much worse.

I remember looking at the Northstar job in fort Worth. Thought it was an April fool's prank. Then realized it's October.

 

[cockblockandrun]

2016-desirable area in TN. 220/270/320/370 then “pay equality” in year 5. That pay was around 440 at the time. No 401k, decent vacation. I have zero idea how these places find anyone to work these jobs.

there does seem to be some respectable pay from some AMCs, but I’ve not seen any from Mednax.

So these AMCs heavily recruit either people almost into retirement or CA-3's- fancy steak dinners, bring out the hottest recruiters to the ASA booths and then take you out for drinks, etc. The AMCs are almost like those women who you pretend to like you, go back to your place, roofie your drink and steal your wallet, watch, money. Once they have your soul signed, they will suck every ounce of life out of you until you are beat, weathered and in some sort of therapy or rehab (I am not joking about this part. Sadly I know too many friends and colleagues of mine who have been broken and in this situation). Going to medical school, residency, fellowship, loads of debt, strain on our families and loved ones and at the end feeling like this is the most demoralizing feeling.

And while they are waiting for these CA3's or desperate souls to sign, they hire locums and per diem mercenaries like me.

When dealing with AMC's, my motto is the line from Cobra Kai: Strike first, Strike hard, No Mercy.

 

[centdoc]

The purpose of threads like this is to give perspective to graduating residents about what salaries are available. If nobody has the information to make an informed decision, the crappy employers will have the power.

I'd recommend to anyone finishing residency to go wherever it takes to make the most money to pay off your debts and save for a future job in a more ideal location. Search for private practice jobs in the meantime and pounce when the moment is right.

$400k+ for fresh graduates is perfectly reasonable to expect.

$400k W2 is the same as $300k 1099. However, you will get scammed into working your A$$ off for the $400k because it is a bigger number. Plus, "$400k+ for fresh graduates is perfectly reasonable to expect," if DEFINITELY not "perfectly reasonable to expect." If you go to any major metro, good luck getting anything over $300k starting for a fresh, inexperienced, non-fellowship trained, resident.

 

[nimbus]

$400k W2 is the same as $300k 1099. However, you will get scammed into working your A$$ off for the $400k because it is a bigger number. Plus, "$400k+ for fresh graduates is perfectly reasonable to expect," if DEFINITELY not "perfectly reasonable to expect." If you go to any major metro, good luck getting anything over $300k starting for a fresh, inexperienced, non-fellowship trained, resident.

I’ve been paid both ways. You have things backward.

 

[Mikkel]

$400k W2 is the same as $300k 1099. However, you will get scammed into working your A$$ off for the $400k because it is a bigger number. Plus, "$400k+ for fresh graduates is perfectly reasonable to expect," if DEFINITELY not "perfectly reasonable to expect." If you go to any major metro, good luck getting anything over $300k starting for a fresh, inexperienced, non-fellowship trained, resident.

Going to a major metro area and expecting to be paid anything even remotely close to "fair" is a pipedream.

By the way, you have your W2's and 1099's backwards.

 

[DirtDocMD]

I remember looking at the Northstar job in fort Worth. Thought it was an April fool's prank. Then realized it's October.

Heh, heh. Preach it, brother! Been there, done that...

 

[deleted899865]

Do these AMCs negotiate contracts or non competes?

 

[IMGASMD]

They will if they’re desperate enough. Even though the official line from them is no.

Plan some time for negotiation. Know what you want. And have a good idea what you’re worth.

Lastly, think about what I said in the first sentence. Do you want to play there when they’re that desperate to get a body there? They usually will have some kind of language that you will cover all the shifts at the site. Unless you can negotiate straight hours and OT pay..... regardless what they say, all moot.

 

[BigRedBeta]

Do these AMCs negotiate contracts or non competes?

I work at a Mednax PICU

My mother is a contract lawyer for a Fortune 500 company, she couldn't even get them to make punctuation changes to large swaths of their standard contract. Talking things that made it clearer and followed standard contract language conventions well established in the legal world according to her and they wouldn't budge, stating a) that they didn't like having everyone's contracts be different, and b) no other lawyers brought these concerns up so they're clearly not a big deal.

Based off the response to what happened the anesthesia guys in Charlotte, Mednax has insinuated that non-competes are the lifeline of their business model to the degree they can be enforced and if they gave in on non-competes, it would be an existential threat to the company.

 

[IMGASMD]

I’ve been paid both ways. You have things backward.

I’ve heard it both ways.

 

[doctalaughs]

I’ve heard it both ways.

I’ve also been in both situations. W2 vs 1099 - all things being equal 1099 is better (more tax shelter opportunities). That being said, W2 varies widely. If you have a w2 with amazing benefits (such as 100% paid health benefits for a family, huge 401k match, paid disability insurance and a pension - ie like Kaiser) in those rare cases the W2 can be worth way more than 1099. Situation dependant.

 

[IMGASMD]

I was referencing Shawn Spencer.
But since you did give a real answer....

It’s hard for new grad and/or someone who doesn’t have good financial education (me) to really compare all these things AMCs, or even Sneaky PPs throwing at you.

Just for example:

salary is 350, but my shop will pay for my family’s insurance, max out 401k. If times are good/okay maybe some profit sharing/pension however that is structured.
Vs
Amc “total package” is worth 400k.
Salary is 350, you pay 20% of your insurance premium. If your spouse works, the there’s a penalty for using amc’s insurance. If you have kid(s) you pay for family rate. 401k match, is at max 20k, vested gradually in 5 years. You don’t get any match your first year. You get some ****ty life/disability insurance.
Vs
1099 250/hr. Good luck and you figure out whatever you want to do with the money/tax. Heath, malpractice, retirement. Pay everything on your own and write off whatever you can and hope not to get audited. But if you pay a good accountant or tax lawyer, you maybe very happy with this arrangement.