Any Muslim Pre-Meds out there??

[irony]

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Cool thread!!

Any Yemeni's out there??

Irony, we'll be starting out at UIC together... see you at orientation bro!

and by bro im sure you werent being gender specific 🙂 look for the "bro" in female disguise.

see you on August 15th.

 

[salmanjafri]

Assalamu' Alaikum!!

My name is Salman, I'm a Pakistani American currently attending the University of California, Irvine. I don't plan on jumping into the application process until next year, so everyone here is way ahead of me. Anyway, its good to see a thread for Muslim pre-meds.

 

[chaeymaey]

Assalamu' Alaikum!!

My name is Salman, I'm a Pakistani American currently attending the University of California, Irvine. I don't plan on jumping into the application process until next year, so everyone here is way ahead of me. Anyway, its good to see a thread for Muslim pre-meds.

Salman-e Farsi!! Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

 

[BrownianMotion]

wow a Muslim Pre-med thread.. 👍

I'm from Lahore, Pakistan and applying this application cycle. Good Luck to all those applying and entering! 🙂

Lahore has the best food, hands-down
Food Street, the Village, hmmmmmm

 

[tifa]

pretty crazy huh....Ramadan is about to begin again! Right when med school starts too. Should be a pretty interesting first couple of months. 🙂

 

[Hoooba]

salamo 3alaikom guys,

I think this is the first "any muslim pre-meds?" thread I've seen in a while. I start med school next week so I'm not pre-med anymore. Good luck to everyone en shaa allah in their pre-med or med education. Some of us muslims/arabs have been lurking around the Africa and Middle East forum. Drop by to practice your arabenglish if you want,

salamat

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=86

 

[aliziry]

Im surprised by the number of muslims on SDN honestly. But thats a good surprise there mates. No Egyptians though. Now thats a bloody shame.

 

[Hoooba]

Im surprised by the number of muslims on SDN honestly. But thats a good surprise there mates. No Egyptians though. Now thats a bloody shame.

Aliziry,

I think you just missed my post. Check out the Eshta 3al 3arab thread over in the Africa/Middle East forum.

 

[BerkeleyMD]

and by bro im sure you werent being gender specific 🙂 look for the "bro" in female disguise.

see you on August 15th.

no gender specified, just 100% californian using only 5% of brain to type...

it actually crossed my mind that you may be a sis and using "bro" would be taken the wrong way, but that was long after i clicked submit reply.. my apologies 😉 .

 

[MasterMD]

Salam everyone! that's right, Lahore is the BEST city...i went to salamat school system. it's nice to see so many muslim pre-meds. Anyone from a UC school?

Berkeley

 

[MasterMD]

Lahore has the best food, hands-down
Food Street, the Village, hmmmmmm

everytime i go out to eat indian/pakistani food i keep telling my boyfriend about the village and how i HAVE to take him there.. that place is awesome.. haha... yes definitely lahore has the best food... !! 😍

 

[DrVanNostran]

mt. prospect haha.. anything is possible!

A little north of me, but I was just in the area doing some research 👍

 

[tictaq]

Im surprised by the number of muslims on SDN honestly. But thats a good surprise there mates. No Egyptians though. Now thats a bloody shame.

I am the Egyptian Magician!

 

[shaky_k]

I am the Egyptian Magician!

haha it's us Bangladeshis that are a rarity on this board. Where are they???!?

 

[kal ka doctor]

salamu alaikum... im a pakistani undergrad attending UCLA. doing econ major and pre med.

 

[RayhanS1282]

haha it's us Bangladeshis that are a rarity on this board. Where are they???!?

Raises hand.

 

[BrownianMotion]

haha it's us Bangladeshis that are a rarity on this board. Where are they???!?

Yeah at Hopkins, the majority of Muslim pre-meds here are prolly Bengali....

 

[khadija]

So, has anyone here experienced any discrimnation or know anyone who has during the application cycle. Like are there any schools one should avoid (e.g., Loma Linda)? Or should one not mention they were prez of their schools MSA or something.

 

[gujuDoc]

Yeah at Hopkins, the majority of Muslim pre-meds here are prolly Bengali....

A few years ago there were a few in Tampa. Some now in medical school and some others who are getting ready to apply soon.

 

[farikanok]

So, has anyone here experienced any discrimnation or know anyone who has during the application cycle. Like are there any schools one should avoid (e.g., Loma Linda)? Or should one not mention they were prez of their schools MSA or something.

al salamou 3alaikoum

i hope not... i put MSA board as one of my ECs

 

[MochezzmO]

Salaams My Fellow Brothers and Sisters,

Its great to see so many Muslamiks on this site... Im a Fellow Egyptian here in Cali, and although I am a year away from applying, its nice to see so many motivated people and it gives me hope.
Its nice to see that a number of people who are avid SD posters are muslim in particular (MasterMD (from MCAT forum) DrVanNostran (from all sorts of forums) and Chaemaey (Post-bac forum)...

Aliziry, I think I had asked you this before, but you will be applying african american correct? Let me know how that goes iA.

Salaams 😀

 

[aliziry]

Salaams My Fellow Brothers and Sisters,

Its great to see so many Muslamiks on this site... Im a Fellow Egyptian here in Cali, and although I am a year away from applying, its nice to see so many motivated people and it gives me hope.
Its nice to see that a number of people who are avid SD posters are muslim in particular (MasterMD (from MCAT forum) DrVanNostran (from all sorts of forums) and Chaemaey (Post-bac forum)...

Aliziry, I think I had asked you this before, but you will be applying african american correct? Let me know how that goes iA.

Salaams 😀

MochezzmO,
I will be applying next year as african american but Im not full Egyptian. Im half Nigerian and my fathers family is from Aswan (Nubian). My advisor told me that for Arabs it just depends on how "African they look". His words. But good luck.

Aliziry

 

[tifa]

So, has anyone here experienced any discrimnation or know anyone who has during the application cycle. Like are there any schools one should avoid (e.g., Loma Linda)? Or should one not mention they were prez of their schools MSA or something.

definitely put being prez of an MSA on your application. In my experience, med schools ADCOM love it and interviewers eat it up!

 

[gujuDoc]

al salamou 3alaikoum

i hope not... i put MSA board as one of my ECs

One of my Bengali friends was an officer in MSA and SUMA when she was applying, but she abstained from putting it on her application because she was afraid of discrimination occurring if she did that. However, I still think she should have listed it if it is a part of who she was and is, and that you shouldn't feel afraid to talk about it in your personal statement.

If anything its a good organization because you can talk about how your school's MSA chapter has helped to try to bring understanding to what ISLAM is vs. what extremists portray it to be and show how you've used your involvement to get involved with the community through service and what not, if your chapter has done such things.

At our school, MSA and SUMA used to put a fast-a-thon on where non muslims would join them in fasting for one day and in return they'd put on a program and feed everyone after it was over and have a live program with music. This was always done on the last day of ramadan.

They also used to put up a board in our student union center where they'd educate people about islamic culture and beliefs and history for awareness month.

 

[shaky_k]

Raises hand.

Haha, NY eh? when I visited Jackson Heights brought back memories of Dhaka. I had awesome food there, with free all-I-can-eat chat-poti and chai from this super nice restaurant owner.

 

[shaky_k]

definitely put being prez of an MSA on your application. In my experience, med schools ADCOM love it and interviewers eat it up!

very true.

 

[legobikes]

So, has anyone here experienced any discrimnation or know anyone who has during the application cycle. Like are there any schools one should avoid (e.g., Loma Linda)? Or should one not mention they were prez of their schools MSA or something.

I rolled my eyes when I read that first sentence but you know I really am curious how the jesuit people treat the brown/muslim folks.

 

[BrownianMotion]

So, has anyone here experienced any discrimnation or know anyone who has during the application cycle. Like are there any schools one should avoid (e.g., Loma Linda)? Or should one not mention they were prez of their schools MSA or something.

I think you should put this down if it was a big part of your life, b/c the fact of the matter is, if someone doesn't like it (i.e. Loma Linda) then its prolly somewhere you really dont wanna go to spend four years of your life, right???

On a seperate note, is there anyone here that wouldn't shake hands with people of the opposite gender in their interviews? Just wondering how you handled it and the responses you got? Just curious...Jazakallahkhair...Asalaamualaykum

 

[tifa]

On a seperate note, is there anyone here that wouldn't shake hands with people of the opposite gender in their interviews? Just wondering how you handled it and the responses you got? Just curious...Jazakallahkhair...Asalaamualaykum

I'm interested in how others handle that "issue" too. I shook hands with everyone during interviews just because I always shake hands with others, not because I was trying to impress anyone. It's funny, I was called on it too. At one interview, after we spoke and I shook the interviewers hand, he was like, "Why did you just shake my hand?" (I'm a hijabi and thus obviously Muslim) And I was like, "uh, well, um, you see..."

So...what how did you guys handle it?

 

[shaky_k]

I'm interested in how others handle that "issue" too. I shook hands with everyone during interviews just because I always shake hands with others, not because I was trying to impress anyone. It's funny, I was called on it too. At one interview, after we spoke and I shook the interviewers hand, he was like, "Why did you just shake my hand?" (I'm a hijabi and thus obviously Muslim) And I was like, "uh, well, um, you see..."

So...what how did you guys handle it?

Assalamu Alaikium!

I was wondering if there was anyway I can keep in touch with you? I am a premed seriously contemplating the hijab, but am wondering about your experiences as a hijabi premed. Jazakh'Allah sis!

 

[bgtati]

2 comments/questions. First off, the hijab is not mandatory in Islam so y wear it? Second, I don't see any rules against a M shaking hands with a F, what is wrong with this? MOst people who wear the hijab don't even know why they wear it. It is mostly a cultural thing IMO. ANy comments? Don' mean to be disrespectful/

 

[Monette]

2 comments/questions. First off, the hijab is not mandatory in Islam so y wear it? Second, I don't see any rules against a M shaking hands with a F, what is wrong with this? MOst people who wear the hijab don't even know why they wear it. It is mostly a cultural thing IMO. ANy comments? Don' mean to be disrespectful/

Are you Muslim?

 

[bgtati]

Are you Muslim?

bl

 

[BrownianMotion]

2 comments/questions. First off, the hijab is not mandatory in Islam so y wear it? Second, I don't see any rules against a M shaking hands with a F, what is wrong with this? MOst people who wear the hijab don't even know why they wear it. It is mostly a cultural thing IMO. ANy comments? Don' mean to be disrespectful/

Yeah, uh, first of all hijab is mentioned in the Quran, theres a consensus among scholars (progressive muslims are not scholars) that the hijab is mandatory, furthermore, even if it were something not mandatory, but a plus (i.e. sunnah), we shouldn't discourage people from doing it, rather we should be happy that our sisters are working hard to get closer to Allah and be good Muslims. There are a number of things that are not required that are Sunnah that not many people do, but that doesn't mean we should try to bash those people who do them trying to get closer to following the ways of our beloved Prophet. Plus the hijab is not a cultural thing (which culture, araby?). For example, the masjid I attend is a masjid of 90% african americans, mostly converts where all the sisters wear hijab. Why can't we just not judge other people and their intentions? It's not our role...

As for shaking hands with people of the opposite genders, even if there is somewhat of a difference of opinions, if one decides it is not permissible, you shouldn't try to put them on blast for trying to do what they think is right...

 

[BrownianMotion]

I'm interested in how others handle that "issue" too. I shook hands with everyone during interviews just because I always shake hands with others, not because I was trying to impress anyone. It's funny, I was called on it too. At one interview, after we spoke and I shook the interviewers hand, he was like, "Why did you just shake my hand?" (I'm a hijabi and thus obviously Muslim) And I was like, "uh, well, um, you see..."

So...what how did you guys handle it?

Even though I may still give in sometimes, what i do is when a lady tries to shake my hand, i say sorry i cannot shake your hand, but i smile really big (this part is crucial) and say "but its a pleasure to meet you" and apparently, its been working really well thus far....

 

[tifa]

Assalamu Alaikium!

I was wondering if there was anyway I can keep in touch with you? I am a premed seriously contemplating the hijab, but am wondering about your experiences as a hijabi premed. Jazakh'Allah sis!

That's wonderful, mashallah! PM me for sure and I'll share my contact info with you.

 

[tifa]

2 comments/questions. First off, the hijab is not mandatory in Islam so y wear it? Second, I don't see any rules against a M shaking hands with a F, what is wrong with this? MOst people who wear the hijab don't even know why they wear it. It is mostly a cultural thing IMO. ANy comments? Don' mean to be disrespectful/

Bilal is right. Hijab is specifically mentioned in the Qu'ran...making it mandatory without question. But everyone is at different levels of faith. Wearing hijab doesn't automatically make a woman a good Muslim. I know many sisters who are cool people from my point of view, great practicing Muslims who are not hijabis. But from my experience, wearing the hijab is absolutely awesome and I have never had any problems with it. Most people are totally respectful, and during interviews, I felt so proud to be in a crowd of scared pre-meds and KNOW that I stand out in a strong and personal way. For all my sisters out there, I recommend the hijab to you. Just try it for a day....see what you think. And brothers, try a kufi so we can tell who you guys are!

 

[DrVanNostran]

The Hijab "debate" has been going on for years; but as others have said it seems to be the general consensus among scholars that it is required. IMO, we can't judge anyone whether they wear hijab or not. As long as the person is true to themselves they are cool in my book🙂

Tifa--btw....so any tips on how to get into UCSF...I think Dua is all I have left.

 

[chaeymaey]

bgtati, are you Iranian? I guessed that just because hijab has a totally different meaning in Iranian culture that in other Muslim cultures. In Farsi, the word "hijab" doesn't refer to the actual clothes, but rather to the concept of modesty. For example, we call a scarf a "roosari" (literally means, something worn on the head), but say things like men have a "hijab for their eyes," meaning that men must guard themselves from temptation as much as women should protect their modesty. When the Pahlavi dynasty began, the physical hijab was banned in Iran so there were generations that lived without exposure to it other than in mosques because no one wore it in public. It became a very private thing. Then it became optional, but still people weren't used to wearing it. Finally, with the Islamic Revolution, it became mandatory for all Iranians, regardless of their religion, thus becoming a symbol of oppression to rebel against. Of course, none of this history accompanies the hijab in other countries, so the hijab remains a symbol of piety and modesty in those cultures. So you can see how a lot of Iranians become sensitive about the subject because of the way it has become entangled in our political history. In fact, its more common for Iranian immigrants to stop wearing hijab when they come to the US than to take it up here for the first time, which I think is part of the unfortunate backlash against Islam for many Iranians. I consider myself to be a religious Muslim woman, but I do not wear a hijab because of cultural reasons. I do, however, respect and admire sisters who do wear hijab and mark their love of God Almighty and wish them all a sincere Mashallah.

 

[legobikes]

^^^when I went to iran hijab was ever-present, but more as a watered-down version (read: colorful see-through cloth hardly covering anything) forced upon a population that is 50% under the age of 25. I was amused to learn a short while after I left that the mullahs were going to put their collective feet down and disallow both this and shaped/weird facial hair on men.

Even though I may still give in sometimes, what i do is when a lady tries to shake my hand, i say sorry i cannot shake your hand, but i smile really big (this part is crucial) and say "but its a pleasure to meet you" and apparently, its been working really well thus far....

holy ****.

 

[chaeymaey]

^^^when I went to iran hijab was ever-present, but more as a watered-down version (read: colorful see-through cloth hardly covering anything) forced upon a population that is 50% under the age of 25. I was amused to learn a short while after I left that the mullahs were going to put their collective feet down and disallow both this and shaped/weird facial hair on men.


holy ****.

Yeah, the Khatami administration was the first to allow women to wear color and the subversion of the hijab was a political tool. It looks like the Ahmadinejad administration is getting tougher now and putting the Morality Police back on the streets to enforce the original laws.

 

[kashif]

Oh God almight and the Hijab Debate begins, when is the Zabiha debate going start, page 6? This is coming coming from someone who only eats Zabiha but I don't force my opinions on others. Remember "There is no compulsion in faith"

 

[legobikes]

meat is yummy for me.

 

[gujuDoc]

So what's your alls take on Hilal (Sp??) meat only??? Do most of you become vegetarian when you go out due to lack of hilal meat, or do you guys not practice those beliefs of only eating hilal meat??

As per the Hijab, I notice a lot of muslim girls where hijabs but still make them where they are not dull colors but have different patterns and style to them so they still look like a fashion statement in some ways.

My question here is do you think the hijab should be plain as a nun's wear to show modesty, or are you for wearing a hijab that is in different patterns and fashion styles??? I'm asking cuz one of my Moraccan muslim friends once told me she didn't like that other muslim friends wore hijabs that were fashionable looking because she felt it defeated the point of the hijab.


Also is the belief of women covering everything but their eyes part of the muslim beliefs or strictly an Arabic thing???

 

[Frank Hardy]

So what's your alls take on Hilal (Sp??) meat only??? Do most of you become vegetarian when you go out due to lack of hilal meat, or do you guys not practice those beliefs of only eating hilal meat??

Halal means the meat was prepared in a special way. The animal was sacrificed by hand (instead of a conveyor belt) and God's name was pronounced over it. Many arabs use a verse in the Quran that states Muslims can eat the meat of "people of the book" ie. Christians and Jews and disregard these rules. You will see them eat meat from almost all restaurants and they still regard this as halal because they say bismillah (in the name of God) "over the meat" before they eat. Thus Muslims who wanted to preserve the original meaning use the word Zabiha.

As per the Hijab, I notice a lot of muslim girls where hijabs but still make them where they are not dull colors but have different patterns and style to them so they still look like a fashion statement in some ways.

My question here is do you think the hijab should be plain as a nun's wear to show modesty, or are you for wearing a hijab that is in different patterns and fashion styles??? I'm asking cuz one of my Moraccan muslim friends once told me she didn't like that other muslim friends wore hijabs that were fashionable looking because she felt it defeated the point of the hijab.


Also is the belief of women covering everything but their eyes part of the muslim beliefs or strictly an Arabic thing???

Hijab is simply a way of maintaining modesty. It entails not just a head scarf but covering the shape of the chest, legs, etc. This is why purists wear a head to toe covering, obviously leaving eye slits to see. "Modern" women dress according to western tradition and then put a scarf on. Others wear modest clothing, a scarf, and leave the face uncovered. Others do not wear hijab. It's a matter of preference and intention.

The different colors are related to fashion and culture.

 

[RayhanS1282]

So what's your alls take on Hilal (Sp??) meat only??? Do most of you become vegetarian when you go out due to lack of hilal meat, or do you guys not practice those beliefs of only eating hilal meat??

As per the Hijab, I notice a lot of muslim girls where hijabs but still make them where they are not dull colors but have different patterns and style to them so they still look like a fashion statement in some ways.

My question here is do you think the hijab should be plain as a nun's wear to show modesty, or are you for wearing a hijab that is in different patterns and fashion styles??? I'm asking cuz one of my Moraccan muslim friends once told me she didn't like that other muslim friends wore hijabs that were fashionable looking because she felt it defeated the point of the hijab.


Also is the belief of women covering everything but their eyes part of the muslim beliefs or strictly an Arabic thing???

I don't know about the others on here but my family and I only refrain from eating pork and that's about it. We really don't discern between halal or otherwise.

And as for the hijab, I feel that it is more or less a cultural thing and has become more prevalent esp. in countries where politics mixes with religion. From personal experience, it seems that some of the people who wear the hijab usually sees themselves to be more pious and kinda judges others do not. My mom and my sister don't wear it and there have been cases where they have gotten into "conflicts" with those that do because of the "holier than thou" attitude. The hijab I think should be a personal choice. This is probably more than you wanted to know, Guju.

 

[bgtati]

For those who say Hijab is in the Quran show me some proof. As for the halal meat thing. If you live in USA and you eat chicken and beef like from the grocery store or MC'D's you are probabally eating tainted meat. By tainted I mean chicken and beef that has been fed Porcine meat and or oil to increase the animals nutritional value. I know this because I used to work @ a big meat company as a chemist and we tested meat oil samples for concentrations of pig and other things. Pretty nice huh?

 

[shaky_k]

Since September 2001, the hijab has been a major issue among both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. I personally think its up to the woman as to when she feels ready or not. If not then whatever, if so then okay. There are different types of people out there with their own reasons, its hard to categorize/generalize anyone.

Anyway, we should also be examining issues such as why the most incompetent Muslim leaders are in power, why Bangladeshi and African children are being sold off as camel racers/servants/etc. into other Muslim countries at the hands of their Muslim brothers and sisters, why certain royal familes have 9053454 wives and kids while the leaders go have tea/drink wine/visit the ranches of the rich in other countries, why the gap between rich and poor is growing wider and wider, and why nationalism/patriotism continues to be a major force is not uniting us mainly as part of the aftershock of colonialism, and I can go on and on and on.

 

[DrVanNostran]

Since September 2001, the hijab has been a major issue among both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. I personally think its up to the woman as to when she feels ready or not. If not then whatever, if so then okay. There are different types of people out there with their own reasons, its hard to categorize/generalize anyone.

Anyway, we should also be examining issues such as why the most incompetent Muslim leaders are in power, why Bangladeshi and African children are being sold off as camel racers/servants/etc. into other Muslim countries at the hands of their Muslim brothers and sisters, why certain royal familes have 9053454 wives and kids while the leaders go have tea/drink wine/visit the ranches of the rich in other countries, why the gap between rich and poor is growing wider and wider, and why nationalism/patriotism continues to be a major force is not uniting us mainly as part of the aftershock of colonialism, and I can go on and on and on.

This is very true; so much debate rages on topics such as zabiha, hijab, etc but so much is ignored. 🙁 I think its things like this that truly make me believe that being a good muslim truly equates to being a good person. Hijab or not, Zabiha or not, I believe that the final judgement will be based on your sincerity and kindness, not what you wore or what you ate.

(I just refrain from eating pork and pork-related products).

 

[tifa]

For those who say Hijab is in the Quran show me some proof. As for the halal meat thing. If you live in USA and you eat chicken and beef like from the grocery store or MC'D's you are probabally eating tainted meat. By tainted I mean chicken and beef that has been fed Porcine meat and or oil to increase the animals nutritional value. I know this because I used to work @ a big meat company as a chemist and we tested meat oil samples for concentrations of pig and other things. Pretty nice huh?

I agree, the hijab/ halal meat debate will only go in circles. Mashallah, Islam is an easy religion with no compulsion. No one knows the intention of another, so I most definitely will not judge someone for eating halal or wearing hijab or not. But, because someone asked, here are the references…

The Qu’ran reference for hijab/ modesty: Surah 24 (An-Nur or Light), ayat 30-31. This translation is from Yusef Ali- Bismillah “Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them. And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do./ And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (ordinarily) appears thereof. That they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers or their brothers’ sons or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hand possess, or male attendants free of sexual desires. Or small children who have no carnal knowledge of women. And that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! Turn ye all together towards Allah in repentance that ye may be successful.”

Another: Surah 33( Al-Ahzab or The Confederates) , ayat 59. “O Prophet! Tell Thy wives and daughters, and tell the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when out of doors): That is the most convenient, that they should be known (As such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

For the food/ meat reference: Surah 2 (Al-Baqarah or The Cow), ayat 173. Bismillah. “He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then he is guiltless. For Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.

Another: Surah 5 (Al-Ma’ida or The Table Spread) ayat 3: Forbidden to you (for food) Are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name other than Allah; that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death. That which hath been (partly) eaten by wild animals; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form). That which is sacrificed on stone (alters); (Forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope your religion. Yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you, and have chose for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, most Merciful.

So, there, hope this helps.