Any nocturnal students here?

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Ioannes Paulus

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For some reason, I work more efficiently at night than during the day. Lately, I have been studying from 9PM to 6AM, sleeping from 5/6AM to noon or later, then going to anatomy lab at 1/3PM and the cycle repeats. I am getting a lot more work done.
Do you guys know friends/classmates/colleagues that have a similar routine?

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For some reason, I work more efficiently at night than during the day. Lately, I have been studying from 9PM to 6AM, sleeping from 5/6AM to noon or later, then going to anatomy lab at 1/3PM and the cycle repeats. I am getting a lot more work done.
Do you guys know friends/classmates/colleagues that have a similar routine?


You may have more luck posting this a few hours from now when they're up.
 
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Any semblance of normal biorhythm went out the window months ago for me. I just sleep when I'm tired. Just last night I was up until 7 AM studying, went to sleep from 8-2, then woke up for my one and only mandatory event that day.
 
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yes I do know such schedules

I either have a post written on how to adapt this delayed sleep phase circadian rhythm of yours to what you will be expected to have in the clinical years, or will write one, if you wish

you could also do IM then work as a nocturnist
issue there is having to do mostly 5:30 am to 7 pm days for most of the residency, however as above I can help you adapt

the issue with EM is that your schedule will be ever changing
however, on graduation the best & only best way to have a "regular" schedule would be to work nights/graveyards, as you will likely have no shortage of colleagues who will trade for your day shifts most of the time, but not always

keep in mind both schedules can be challenging with spouse and kids, but you can still manage to be home & awake when they are after school
however, you would likely still need to be able to switch back to days in that case, there's always events that will call on you to be days
 
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yes I do know such schedules

I either have a post written on how to adapt this delayed sleep phase circadian rhythm of yours to what you will be expected to have in the clinical years, or will write one, if you wish

you could also do IM then work as a nocturnist
issue there is having to do mostly 5:30 am to 7 pm days for most of the residency, however as above I can help you adapt

the issue with EM is that your schedule will be ever changing
however, on graduation the best & only best way to have a "regular" schedule would be to work nights/graveyards, as you will likely have no shortage of colleagues who will trade for your day shifts most of the time, but not always

keep in mind both schedules can be challenging with spouse and kids, but you can still manage to be home & awake when they are after school
however, you would likely still need to be able to switch back to days in that case, there's always events that will call on you to be days


Considering that you have more than 4,000 posts here, I had a difficult time finding the post you speak of. Do you remember which thread you posted it in?
 
yes I do know such schedules

I either have a post written on how to adapt this delayed sleep phase circadian rhythm of yours to what you will be expected to have in the clinical years, or will write one, if you wish

you could also do IM then work as a nocturnist
issue there is having to do mostly 5:30 am to 7 pm days for most of the residency, however as above I can help you adapt

the issue with EM is that your schedule will be ever changing
however, on graduation the best & only best way to have a "regular" schedule would be to work nights/graveyards, as you will likely have no shortage of colleagues who will trade for your day shifts most of the time, but not always

keep in mind both schedules can be challenging with spouse and kids, but you can still manage to be home & awake when they are after school
however, you would likely still need to be able to switch back to days in that case, there's always events that will call on you to be days

You need to start posting references or make some sort of dewey decimal system
 
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https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...stay-alert-on-test-day.1154625/#post-16810276

Short thread, if read has a decent intro into some things to do to affect your circadian rhythm.

1) It can take up to a month for you to fully "adjust" when you change your routine
For example, if I know I have to take Step 1 at 8 am, then I will institute a sleep/wake routine at least a month ahead of time, so that my brain will have learned to be "awake" at the desired time. In my case, this was not enough time because I was studying at the same time I was still adjusting. Ideally I would have done this a few weeks even prior to my study period. In my case, bedtime was 9 pm and wake time was 6 am. This allows for 9 hours, so it allows for not falling asleep immediately but still getting 8 hours at minimum. Many "night owls" are on the side of needing more rather than less sleep. We all differ.

2) In order to adjust, you need to sleep and wake at the exact same times every day, including weekends or holidays. You could have a deviation of one hour later but any more than that and you are again disrupting the system you are seeking to "entrain." Seriously, 1 day of going back to your "old" schedule and you have just undone the "entrainment." We all have hardwired rhythms, and we will default to them if the conditions that are "entraining" us to another rhythm are disturbed. It doesn't take much! (I could give you anecdotes to prove my point but will wait to see if someone demands them)

3) Sleep hygeine
-no caffeine within 8 hours of bed, preferably even earlier than that, restrict caffeine as much as possible (it has a very long half life, and even at doses where you no longer feel an effect causes sleep disturbance. Don't forget about caffeinated sodas. I've never told someone to avoid chocolate. YMMV.
-no alcohol whatsoever, perhaps 1 or 2 on a weekend night, because it is EXTREMELY disrupting to normal sleep patterns, and if you are trying to sleep when you are wired to be awake, you need all the help you can get. Don't shoot yourself in the foot.
-no pets. I had to get an electronic shockmat online so my cats wouldn't dig a hole through the door to get to me.
-if your partner helps you maintain the sleep/wake schedule you need, fine. If not, consider sleeping separately. It doesn't necessarily have to affect your sex life.
-cool room, not too heavy blankets
-if you can, DO NOT do anything in your bedroom except sleep and sex (putting on clothes in the am is fine). If you can, don't study/work there or do anything "mental." Don't have romantic spats there either
-if you can, having your bedroom like a "sanctuary," I always take the time to make my bed in the am so I look forward to it in the pm
-don't do heavy exercise within 1-2 hours of sleep, it can keep you up or disturb your rhythm
-exercise is good for sleep if you can do it at the right times, even just moderate walking helps
-a warm bath or hot shower within a couple hours of sleep can help, but not immediately before
-no heavy meals within 1-2 hours of sleep (I am someone who can't sleep on an empty stomach. YMMV)
-warm milk, herbal tea can be nice though. Creating a nightly ritual is good.
-you can use melatonin, best to take 1-3 hours within your intended sleep time, start at 0.5 mg and can increase PRN but don't go above 3 mg where it can have a paradoxical effect (keep you from sleeping. common SE is vivid disturbing dreams. rare SE is depression or drowsiness).

The rest of this is very heavily based on info from psycheducation.org, Dr. Michael Phelps' website has a lot on this topic

4) Light hygeine
-get light blocking curtains and make it so that a single photon cannot make it into your bedroom. I'm talking "wave a hand in front of your face & can't see it" dark. The only light allowed is maybe red light from an alarm clock face. Take black electric tape or other measures to hide any lights from electronics in the room.
-blue light hitting your retina, even with your lids closed, will turn off the brain's production of melatonin.
-lowbluelights.com has red bulbs that online I found socket plugins for, to use as red night lights (turning on the regular light to hit the can will instantly turn off your melatonin production and jar you awake)
-I use the computer program f.lux (google it) on all my computers. When the sun goes down the program automatically tones down the blue in your screen. When this happens, I institute my nightly low blue regimen
-I go through my entire house and turn off all regular light bulbs. From that moment forward, I only use yellow light bulbs (can find from that website which has yellow incandescent or fluorescent, or any local bulb or hardware store which tend to just have the brighter fluorescent) which are essentially spaced throughout the house so I can go about my business as usual, just with low blue light.
-This transition to "low blue" is now part of my nightly ritual. It signals the time for me to wrap up chores, do dinner.
-I have an alarm for when to take melatonin, which for me is two hours before bed. It is my signal to wash my face, brush my teeth, and any "calming" chores like folding the laundry. As a "reward," I can watch one hour of low blue screen tv & enjoy a cup of unsweetened "Tension Tamer" tea before slipping into a beautifully made bed.
-for those that like to read before bed, maybe even in bed, I think this is fine if it works for you and and not against you, and you use a yellow light

5) Waking up
-sunrise simulator with a daylight spectrum bulb, set to start about 1 hour prior to waking (since you are in such a dark room. Some would just use a sound alarm clock but there are benefits to having light slowly wake you through your eyelids re: turning off your brain's production of melatonin)
-could use a blue light right away or a couple of hours AFTER waking. Phelp's site talks more about this. It can make you feel more awake, like caffeine, especially at times you wouldn't normally feel awake. It works for SAD, it can also precipitate mania, but this isn't common, and I would say consult your psychiatrist and you can always start very low and see how it goes (for me, anything past 10 min gives me nightly sleep disturbance. However, just the 10 minutes feels like 2 cups of coffee in the best way)
-caffeine is fine, but keep it moderate

Listen, this stuff is mostly:
what I learned in med school
psycheducation.org and papers that Dr. Phelps cites
stuff my own physicians told me
stuff I've read online
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

literally encompasses everything I personally have learned to do. I am someone who has a sleep disorder (putting it mildly), and is a night owl to boot. No joke, my colleagues said I was NEVER so awake and alert at 7 am as I was ON NIGHTFLOAT. Chew on that a minute. Doing all of the above is what I feel let me feel closer to normal and "less" jetlagged during the 5 am - **** my life o'clock clinical years of med school & residency.

Some people just rise with the sun. If you're not one of them, you are "wired" "wrong". You need to use as many external inputs as possible to manipulate your brain's wiring into sleeping and waking when you want it to.
 
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I'm a night person and I do EM. It's one of if not the best field for nights. Most groups are really happy to hire nights only people since many people really don't like nights. It's also nice to not have the rotating schedule that my partners have, I only work one of two shifts which start at similar times. And as a bonus you do get payed more for nights at many places.
 
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