Any OMFS attending out there working strictly in hospital?

[Jumpman26]

Im wondering if there are any oral surgeons out there who have fully limited their practice to hospital based surgery, but not in academics. For instance only doing facial trauma, orthognathic, cleft/lip etc. I know there would be ALOT less money in this, but just wondering if anyone is doing it

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Jumpman26]

bump

 

[2thDoc11]

Are hospitals willing to help pay back student loans in rural areas? Or smaller cities in the Midwest?

 

[Sublimazing]

Im wondering if there are any oral surgeons out there who have fully limited their practice to hospital based surgery, but not in academics. For instance only doing facial trauma, orthognathic, cleft/lip etc. I know there would be ALOT less money in this, but just wondering if anyone is doing it

2 routes i know of for this.

1. Do a micro fellowship and take a head and neck cancer job somewhere.

2. Work for kaiser out in california (though i have no first hand knowledge of this job)

The real question is why you’d want to do full time hospital but not have an army of residents to handle the abundance of scut work?

 

[nade0016]

Are you asking if there are OMS's who do not do Dentoalveolar and are strictly hospital OR/consult/call based? Or are hospital based but also have a clinic in the hospital where they do some DA stuff? I know plenty of the latter but none of the former.

 

[Jumpman26]

Are you asking if there are OMS's who do not do Dentoalveolar and are strictly hospital OR/consult/call based? Or are hospital based but also have a clinic in the hospital where they do some DA stuff? I know plenty of the latter but none of the former.

yes im asking more about the latter! Ive personally never met an OMFS who works in a non-academic hospital setting. The reason I ask is because all the OMFS in my area have a clinic, but do not take take trauma call or do any big surgical cases at the local hospital, mainly because the hospital does not compensate them for taking call. So I was wondering if there were OMFS who were directly employed by a hospital, and that way they are compensated for taking call, doing bigger cases, etc.

 

[nade0016]

Prior to our affiliation with a group there was a level one hospital in Minneapolis that had 2 H&N cancer OMS's who practiced and were employed by the hospital. Both of them worked independently one day a week for a corporate dental office providing DA services to make extra cash. About 1 year ago my OS training program affiliated with them so now they have 2 residents with them full time. The residents love it and the faculty love it and are really engaged in the training.

As would be the case with all good things this year the hospital recently spun-off the doctors group into a separate entity which is making for challenging affiliation.(the doctors group isn't GME accredited and doesn't want to pay for residents) We are keeping our affiliation but changing the way its organized.

I have a good friend who is employed by a VA hospital and is the only OMS there. No residents but mostly DA and grafting. No Trauma or orthognathics or big cases.

The topic of call and hospital compensation is a large and complex topic.

 

[nade0016]

Thats tough to answer. Generally an OMS would be an independent contractor and therefore receive a percentage of the daily collections. I have seen anywhere from 35-57% depending on a lot of different factors. And then there is the fact that these are usually dental offices and they have a tough time filing a full OS schedule from 1-3 GP DDS's. For me I have had really good days but also very poor days. The range has been $1200 for a day all the way up to $15K. So its not consistent.

 

[iluvnetters]

Prior to our affiliation with a group there was a level one hospital in Minneapolis that had 2 H&N cancer OMS's who practiced and were employed by the hospital. Both of them worked independently one day a week for a corporate dental office providing DA services to make extra cash. About 1 year ago my OS training program affiliated with them so now they have 2 residents with them full time. The residents love it and the faculty love it and are really engaged in the training.

As would be the case with all good things this year the hospital recently spun-off the doctors group into a separate entity which is making for challenging affiliation.(the doctors group isn't GME accredited and doesn't want to pay for residents) We are keeping our affiliation but changing the way its organized.

I have a good friend who is employed by a VA hospital and is the only OMS there. No residents but mostly DA and grafting. No Trauma or orthognathics or big cases.

The topic of call and hospital compensation is a large and complex topic.

How do gigs like these work? Do you go find a hospital job post-fellowship and then work in with them that you'd work corporate/PP on the side, do you find the PP first, or what? Have always wondered how to get a practice where youre doing DA to keep the lights on while still getting into onc. cases as well

 

[nade0016]

The one advantage of working for a hospital is that they rarely have non-competes in the contracts and the contract are usually 4 days a week or are at least negotiable. So get you a hospital job and during contract negotiations you have them remove the non-compete and let them know you will be working outside the hospital but not providing comparable services. For me personally, I was working PP 2 days a month while my wife was in the city. I did that to visit her while I was a staff at another hospital in another city. Then when an academic job opened up I interviewed and got the job.

Honestly, I wish my academic job paid well enough so I didn't have to work PP. I am not a big fan of working in corporate GP DDS office providing OS services. There is just something that make me slightly anxious about it. I am working on getting out of the PP gig at some point but right now the money is good since my wife went back to grad school.

 

[iluvnetters]

The one advantage of working for a hospital is that they rarely have non-competes in the contracts and the contract are usually 4 days a week or are at least negotiable. So get you a hospital job and during contract negotiations you have them remove the non-compete and let them know you will be working outside the hospital but not providing comparable services. For me personally, I was working PP 2 days a month while my wife was in the city. I did that to visit her while I was a staff at another hospital in another city. Then when an academic job opened up I interviewed and got the job.

Honestly, I wish my academic job paid well enough so I didn't have to work PP. I am not a big fan of working in corporate GP DDS office providing OS services. There is just something that make me slightly anxious about it. I am working on getting out of the PP gig at some point but right now the money is good since my wife went back to grad school.

So it seems to me like you gotta be full time at atleast one of them and the other one whenever youve got extra time.. I've seen practice models where it seems like the doc is working 2 days a week private practice (non corporate) to keep the lights on and 2-3 at a large academic institute. Do you see theses as being a realistic models or is it an anomaly?

 

[nade0016]

Depends. I think that the 3 academic and 2 PP gets dicey with benefits as most places you would need to be 70% time employee or greater to be considered full time and receive full time benefits. So realistically a person would need to be 3.5 days a week and most PP don't need someone 1.5 or 0.5 a week so it is either 4/1 or 5/0 if you want benefits. I have seen FT considered as much as 66% time. But I think that is anomaly. But if you owned your practice you could work a 3/2 or 2/3 situation and would not need the hospitals benefits.

 

[Jumpman26]

Depends. I think that the 3 academic and 2 PP gets dicey with benefits as most places you would need to be 70% time employee or greater to be considered full time and receive full time benefits. So realistically a person would need to be 3.5 days a week and most PP don't need someone 1.5 or 0.5 a week so it is either 4/1 or 5/0 if you want benefits. I have seen FT considered as much as 66% time. But I think that is anomaly. But if you owned your practice you could work a 3/2 or 2/3 situation and would not need the hospitals benefits.

Do you know if its common for OMFS to be hired as locum tenans to provide facial trauma coverage?

 

[nade0016]

Not that I have heard of in the US. I am sure it exists so PP OMS can take a vacation and keep the office open but I am not aware of anything specific.