Any online lecture showing whole process of analyzing abdomen or chest ct??

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Im radio

Im radio

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I major internal medicine
I am working in army now so i don't have access to hospital's pacs program or severe cases. Soon i will go back to my hospital
I was always not very good at ct scans

1. I need online lectures not showing one cut view but showing whole ct analyzing process.

2. Plus do u guys know how to study via Dicom or pacs library? Important point is that they should show whole ct films, not one cut.

I don't need ****ty cancer cases for radiology board review but i need basic cases and anatomy
Thanks and sorry for my poor english
 
Im radio said:
I major internal medicine
I am working in army now so i don't have access to hospital's pacs program or severe cases. Soon i will go back to my hospital
I was always not very good at ct scans

1. I need online lectures not showing one cut view but showing whole ct analyzing process.

2. Plus do u guys know how to study via Dicom or pacs library? Important point is that they should show whole ct films, not one cut.

I don't need ****ty cancer cases for radiology board review but i need basic cases and anatomy
Thanks and sorry for my poor english
Click to expand...
Have you tried radiopaedia.org
 
 
You're asking for an online residency....
 
2brads said:
You're asking for an online residency....
Click to expand...
Yes kind of online residency. But EKG has so many good lectures. Even endoscopy has great lectures but i cannot find good abdominal CT lecture. Except for advanced radiologist, showing one cut and numerous cancers
 
Unfortunately, the first few months/years of residency are devoted to just figuring out what the heck “normal” looks like. Only then can you start to describe “abnormal”. That’s why we have suggested the above resources and that’s why you’re only finding lectures with a few representative images.
 
2brads said:
Unfortunately, the first few months/years of residency are devoted to just figuring out what the heck “normal” looks like. Only then can you start to describe “abnormal”. That’s why we have suggested the above resources and that’s why you’re only finding lectures with a few representative images.
Click to expand...
What's your point? I was asking for basic lectures which describe 'normal' anatomy and basic diseases. I believe not every lecture is for advanced users. And i appreciate those resources.
 
To my knowledge there aren't really any good lectures out there to learn CT from scratch.

The normal is learnt by looking at hundreds of cases. Basic pathology are things you can look up individually and reinforce through seeing the case in real life. If you're asking for a search pattern, just look at any synoptic report and go in the order they list their organs.

There really isn't much more to it than that except doing it hundreds, then thousands of times.
 
Clean7795 said:
To my knowledge there aren't really any good lectures out there to learn CT from scratch.

The normal is learnt by looking at hundreds of cases. Basic pathology are things you can look up individually and reinforce through seeing the case in real life. If you're asking for a search pattern, just look at any synoptic report and go in the order they list their organs.

There really isn't much more to it than that except doing it hundreds, then thousands of times.
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There is slightly more to it: doing it with feedback. Supervised learning is a lot different from unsupervised learning. What this person is really asking about is how to simulate supervised learning without a supervisor.
 
Cognovi said:
There is slightly more to it: doing it with feedback. Supervised learning is a lot different from unsupervised learning. What this person is really asking about is how to simulate supervised learning without a supervisor.
Click to expand...
Sure i agree. Supervision is very important. I found radiopaedia youtube channel which is very helpful. I accept every recommendation i reviewed learnabdomen CT.com. And I am not in hospital so i need more cases to review
 
Im radio said:
What's your point? I was asking for basic lectures which describe 'normal' anatomy and basic diseases. I believe not every lecture is for advanced users. And i appreciate those resources.
Click to expand...
My point is, if you want to learn radiology then go do a radiology residency. And yes, virtually every lecture you come across will be “advanced”.
 
Im radio said:
I major internal medicine
I am working in army now so i don't have access to hospital's pacs program or severe cases. Soon i will go back to my hospital
I was always not very good at ct scans

1. I need online lectures not showing one cut view but showing whole ct analyzing process.

2. Plus do u guys know how to study via Dicom or pacs library? Important point is that they should show whole ct films, not one cut.

I don't need ****ty cancer cases for radiology board review but i need basic cases and anatomy
Thanks and sorry for my poor english
Click to expand...

Best online resource:
University of Virginia tutorial
Univ of Virginia

Best beginner book:
Amazon product ASIN 0323608329
Good luck
 
2brads said:
2brads said:
My point is, if you want to learn radiology then go do a radiology residency. And yes, virtually every lecture you come across will be “advanced”.
Click to expand...

First, i found many basic lectures which is not 'advanced' and it helped me a lot. I am not willing to take another residency program. Not every physician needs to do a radiology residency to learn radiology. I respect radiologists but your reply is kind of arrogant. Grow up.
Click to expand...
 
I think that it’s the height of arrogance to come here and demand to learn a specialty by watching a few videos. How would you feel if I demanded to learn your specialty in a few hours? Would you ask the same of other specialties? Your implication that the basics of radiology can be learned in such a trivial manner is insulting to radiologists. Our specialty is learned over countless hours on call and in tandem with more experienced trainees and attendings. If the videos you seek existed, they would be standard issue to every first year resident. The fact that they are not readily available speaks volumes.
 
2brads said:
I think that it’s the height of arrogance to come here and demand to learn a specialty by watching a few videos. How would you feel if I demanded to learn your specialty in a few hours? Would you ask the same of other specialties? Your implication that the basics of radiology can be learned in such a trivial manner is insulting to radiologists. Our specialty is learned over countless hours on call and in tandem with more experienced trainees and attendings. If the videos you seek existed, they would be standard issue to every first year resident. The fact that they are not readily available speaks volumes.
Click to expand...
height of arrogance = Asking how to read & improve abdomen CT to radiologists/residents ?
duh
I just wanted to read my patient's image better.(not like radiologists, I am not that good and I know I can't reach that level)
And I was asking for online course because of my circumstances.
I found many good lectures and helped me a lot. I am not insulting you.
I think you have some problems. Cool down man.
 
We gave you good resources but you came back and said not basic enough and you denigrated cancer patients. We gave you more resources and still you say not good enough.

Would you go over to the neurosurgery forum and ask “I want to get good at neurosurgery. I don’t want ****ty degen spine cases for board review but I need basic cases and anatomy”? If it’s not ok to ask it over there I don’t understand why you think it’s ok to do the same to radiologists.
 
I don’t know why you’re making this personal. It’s unprofessional and unbecoming.
 
I think it's better to have two sets of eyes looking at the CTs. I have made a fair share of calls to my radiology colleagues about life threatening misses and they were always very appreciative of it.

Having EM, IM, FM, OB, Neuro, Ortho, Surgery learn to eyeball imaging studies may help you guys one of these days. Think about it.
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
I think it's better to have two sets of eyes looking at the CTs. I have made a fair share of calls to my radiology colleagues about life threatening misses and they were always very appreciative of it.

Having EM, IM, FM, OB, Neuro, Ortho, Surgery learn to eyeball imaging studies may help you guys one of these days. Think about it.
Click to expand...

While some have chosen to denigrate clinicians looking at their own imaging, I also have had times where the clinicians have saved my bacon and definitely appreciate someone saving me from a patient-harming miss.

That being said, the OP asking a group of radiologists how to learn radiology which is fundamentally different than how a clinician looks at and learns radiology.

Clinicians learn radiology by reading our reports and correlating the imaging to the clinical picture, whether at surgery or by lab values. Sometimes they'll come down and ask the radiologists to explain the imaging. They also typically focus in solely on their area of interest.

Radiologists learn by repetition and supervised teaching. It's unlikely the OP could just self-learn radiology like a radiologist. He could learn radiology like a clinician, but that doesn't seem to be what he's asking for.
 
guytakingboards said:
While some have chosen to denigrate clinicians looking at their own imaging, I also have had times where the clinicians have saved my bacon and definitely appreciate someone saving me from a patient-harming miss.

That being said, the OP asking a group of radiologists how to learn radiology which is fundamentally different than how a clinician looks at and learns radiology.

Clinicians learn radiology by reading our reports and correlating the imaging to the clinical picture, whether at surgery or by lab values. Sometimes they'll come down and ask the radiologists to explain the imaging. They also typically focus in solely on their area of interest.

Radiologists learn by repetition and supervised teaching. It's unlikely the OP could just self-learn radiology like a radiologist. He could learn radiology like a clinician, but that doesn't seem to be what he's asking for.
Click to expand...
Nice point. I was not insulting any radiologist. I just needed to remind myself what I've learned during my training and catch simple images before asking our hospital's radiologist.
I was shocked that some guy up there said arrogance kind of thing. If some other clinician asked me about EKG, I would never replied like that. Sorry for my poor english and wording. And I am not trying to be a radiologist.
I respect your guys work and I really need more cases to look at.
I have no access to hospital's PACS program because I am serving my country now.
I looked at all the sites you've recommended and it was very helpful.
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
I think it's better to have two sets of eyes looking at the CTs. I have made a fair share of calls to my radiology colleagues about life threatening misses and they were always very appreciative of it.

Having EM, IM, FM, OB, Neuro, Ortho, Surgery learn to eyeball imaging studies may help you guys one of these days. Think about it.
Click to expand...

fair share of "Life Threatening misses" ???

Unless you call a small pulmonary nodule a life-threatening condition, most radiologists rarely miss life-threatening conditions.
 
Tiger100 said:
fair share of "Life Threatening misses" ???

Unless you call a small pulmonary nodule a life-threatening condition, most radiologists rarely miss life-threatening conditions.
Click to expand...
You'd be surprised. Let's see (mix of US, CT, MR, XR stuff)

1. Perforated gastric ulcer - missed
2. Subacute temporal lobe hematoma - missed
3. Appendicitis - missed
4. Pneumomediastinum - missed
5. Pneumothorax - missed, was not a subtle one either
6. HSV encephalitis - missed
7. Cholecystitis - missed, happening more and more often, which is very annoying
8. Flail chest - missed, caught this as an intern, pt ended up getting inappropriate cardiac admission as a result - wonder why chest hurts
9. Perforated diverticulitis/pneumoperitoneum - missed
10. Other Hodge podge of undercalled pathology like colitis, Mets on bone scan...

Granted, some of them were resident reads

The funny thing is that the addendum tends to say that they called me...uhm...I called them... embarrassing

I do have some radiology residency training...
 
Last edited:
CoffeeGourmand said:
You'd be surprised. Let's see (mix of US, CT, MR, XR stuff)

1. Perforated gastric ulcer - missed
2. Subacute temporal lobe hematoma - missed
3. Appendicitis - missed
4. Pneumomediastinum - missed
5. Pneumothorax - missed, was not a subtle one either
6. HSV encephalitis - missed
7. Cholecystitis - missed, happening more and more often, which is very annoying
8. Flail chest - missed, caught this as an intern, pt ended up getting inappropriate cardiac admission as a result - wonder why chest hurts
9. Perforated diverticulitis/pneumoperitoneum - missed
10. Other Hodge podge of undercalled pathology like colitis, Mets on bone scan...

Granted, some of them were resident reads

The funny thing is that the addendum tends to say that they called me...uhm...I called them... embarrassing

I do have some radiology residency training...
Click to expand...


Then your radiology department sucks. It is very uncommon for a radiology department to miss things that obvious.

If you are talking about prelim reads by residents, then the program should change its call schedule and have upper level residents cover call and not first years.
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
You'd be surprised. Let's see (mix of US, CT, MR, XR stuff)

1. Perforated gastric ulcer - missed
2. Subacute temporal lobe hematoma - missed
3. Appendicitis - missed
4. Pneumomediastinum - missed
5. Pneumothorax - missed, was not a subtle one either
6. HSV encephalitis - missed
7. Cholecystitis - missed, happening more and more often, which is very annoying
8. Flail chest - missed, caught this as an intern, pt ended up getting inappropriate cardiac admission as a result - wonder why chest hurts
9. Perforated diverticulitis/pneumoperitoneum - missed
10. Other Hodge podge of undercalled pathology like colitis, Mets on bone scan...

Granted, some of them were resident reads

The funny thing is that the addendum tends to say that they called me...uhm...I called them... embarrassing

I do have some radiology residency training...
Click to expand...
1. was this a supine radiograph?
2. was this only seen in retrospect AFTER the brain MRI?
3. hedged on prelim? more obvious on follow up?
4. missed on crappy portable AP?
5. you're awarded a point. no one should miss this.
6. cant see this on head CT early, assuming you mean it was missed on MRI brain??
7. This is the reason HIDAs are a thing. also why there are sarcastic impressions when indication for non-con CT a/p is "cholecytitis?"
8. should have been watching his step.
9. bad miss
10. attending specific.

most of the "misses" are because the wrong test was ordered. crap question in, crap answer out. but yea, shouldn't miss pneumo anything.
 
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Tiger100 said:
Then your radiology department sucks. It is very uncommon for a radiology department to miss things that obvious.

If you are talking about prelim reads by residents, then the program should change its call schedule and have upper level residents cover call and not first years.
Click to expand...

Couple of annoying misses again...had to point it...more addendum that says I was called and not the other way around

1. Subarachnoid
2. Kidney stone with ruptured ureter
3. Tibial plateau fracture with ruptured ACL, MCL

There are advantages to teaching non-radiologists some radiology
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
Couple of annoying misses again...had to point it...more addendum that says I was called and not the other way around

1. Subarachnoid
2. Kidney stone with ruptured ureter
3. Tibial plateau fracture with ruptured ACL, MCL

There are advantages to teaching non-radiologists some radiology
Click to expand...

The solution to your problem is to change the radiology group in your hospital and not having non-rads reading images. If what you are describing is correct (which is extremely rare and unlikely), then the radiologists in your hospital are at the bottom 1% of quality.

And if you want to become a radiologist, then go and become a radiologist.
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
Couple of annoying misses again...had to point it...more addendum that says I was called and not the other way around

1. Subarachnoid
2. Kidney stone with ruptured ureter
3. Tibial plateau fracture with ruptured ACL, MCL

There are advantages to teaching non-radiologists some radiology
Click to expand...
you're either making this up or these are findings on follow up imaging using an appropriate test. My guess is you ordered a portable single view knee radiograph which was called normal, followed with an MRI that showed fracture and tears.
 
DOFOSHO said:
you're either making this up or these are findings on follow up imaging using an appropriate test. My guess is you ordered a portable single view knee radiograph which was called normal, followed with an MRI that showed fracture and tears.
Click to expand...

This was my guess as well.
 
DOFOSHO said:
you're either making this up or these are findings on follow up imaging using an appropriate test. My guess is you ordered a portable single view knee radiograph which was called normal, followed with an MRI that showed fracture and tears.
Click to expand...

Last week, a wedged shaped abnormality with small effusion on my patient's right lung seen on the CT abd was called "pneumonia or atelectasis". Um, it was actually a PE with infarct on a confirmatory CTPE that I ordered. This is why I look at ALL my studies.

I don't generally order another study if I agree with a radiologist's "normal" read.

I do order a follow up study to better characterize a pathology that I see that a radiologist read as "normal". 🙄

Not sure what your referring physicians usual workflow is.
 
Last edited:
CoffeeGourmand said:
Last week, a wedged shaped abnormality with small effusion on my patient's right lung seen on the CT abd was called "pneumonia or atelectasis". Um, it was actually a PE with infarct on a confirmatory CTPE that I ordered. This is why I look at ALL my studies.

I don't generally order another study if I agree with a radiologist's "normal" read.

I do order a follow up study to better characterize a pathology that I see that a radiologist read as "normal". 🙄

Not sure what your referring physicians usual workflow is.
Click to expand...
you just proved my point lol. you ordered a non-specific (or wrong) study, followed by the correct study, and then say the radiologist "missed" the finding on the wrong study. glad you found the PE on the PE study, you're awarded a gold star.
 
Misses this week:

1. rt hip fracture missed on rt hip XR. confirmed on CT
2. L1 compression fracture and anterior superior end plate fracture on an L spine CT

ugh...called radiologist and reports amended.
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
Misses this week:

1. rt hip fracture missed on rt hip XR. confirmed on CT
2. L1 compression fracture and anterior superior end plate fracture on an L spine CT

ugh...called radiologist and reports amended.
Click to expand...

I don't get your point. Are you expecting radiologists to be perfect? If you see the volume of studies most radiologists read and the speed with which they are read, you would be amazed that our misses aren't more.

I can point out misses and errors by other physicians and surgeons since I see quite a bit of their mistakes on imaging.

If you are able to read and dictate a stack of 25-30 CTs of varying anatomic regions and of varying complexity in 4-5 hours, and with little or sometimes even misleading indications, while being responsible for every single pixel/anatomy, then you would be the peer of a radiologist.
 
the point is, it's to yours and our patients' benefit for radiologists to teach non-radiologists how to pick up pathology on imaging. no one's perfect but diagnostic errors really puts us and the patient in a bad predicament
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
Last week, a wedged shaped abnormality with small effusion on my patient's right lung seen on the CT abd was called "pneumonia or atelectasis". Um, it was actually a PE with infarct on a confirmatory CTPE that I ordered. This is why I look at ALL my studies.

I don't generally order another study if I agree with a radiologist's "normal" read.

I do order a follow up study to better characterize a pathology that I see that a radiologist read as "normal". 🙄

Not sure what your referring physicians usual workflow is.
Click to expand...

You do realize that pneumonia and an infarct can look identical, especially when all you are seeing is the lung bases.

Something tells me the OP is the type of person to tell med students that they read all of their own imaging and are better than the radiologists with a smirk on their face.
 
GadRads said:
I don't get your point. Are you expecting radiologists to be perfect? If you see the volume of studies most radiologists read and the speed with which they are read, you would be amazed that our misses aren't more.

I can point out misses and errors by other physicians and surgeons since I see quite a bit of their mistakes on imaging.

If you are able to read and dictate a stack of 25-30 CTs of varying anatomic regions and of varying complexity in 4-5 hours, and with little or sometimes even misleading indications, while being responsible for every single pixel/anatomy, then you would be the peer of a radiologist.
Click to expand...

Nothing like reading an MR Brain for "s/p gamma knife" when in fact the scheduled gamma knife treatment did not occur...considering its the difference between saying expected post-treatment changes vs disease progression.
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
You'd be surprised. Let's see (mix of US, CT, MR, XR stuff)

1. Perforated gastric ulcer - missed
2. Subacute temporal lobe hematoma - missed
3. Appendicitis - missed
4. Pneumomediastinum - missed
5. Pneumothorax - missed, was not a subtle one either
6. HSV encephalitis - missed
7. Cholecystitis - missed, happening more and more often, which is very annoying
8. Flail chest - missed, caught this as an intern, pt ended up getting inappropriate cardiac admission as a result - wonder why chest hurts
9. Perforated diverticulitis/pneumoperitoneum - missed
10. Other Hodge podge of undercalled pathology like colitis, Mets on bone scan...

Granted, some of them were resident reads

The funny thing is that the addendum tends to say that they called me...uhm...I called them... embarrassing

I do have some radiology residency training...
Click to expand...
How much radiology residency did you do?
 
CoffeeGourmand said:
the point is, it's to yours and our patients' benefit for radiologists to teach non-radiologists how to pick up pathology on imaging. no one's perfect but diagnostic errors really puts us and the patient in a bad predicament
Click to expand...

That's not the take home I'm getting from your posts. The take-home is that clinicians should do a few years of radiology and then switch into their clinical specialty. You were trained in image interpretation as a radiologist.

Our specialty could definitely look to the clinical fields and say "it's to yours and your patients' benefit for clinicians to put an accurate and useful history on the exam order. no one's perfect but diagnostic errors really puts us and the patient in a bad predicament".
 
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