Anyone doing or considering armed forces HPSP?

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SurgDoc95

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Starting to consider whether or not I want to go this route. From a pretty strong military family so I actually would not mind serving, but do have some questions. Anyone know if having a 124 in chem will hurt my chances of getting the scholarship? I know they have cut offs for per section scores but I'm not sure what they are. Also, what does it take to be a competitive applicant to these programs? Thanks all!
 
Starting to consider whether or not I want to go this route. From a pretty strong military family so I actually would not mind serving, but do have some questions. Anyone know if having a 124 in chem will hurt my chances of getting the scholarship? I know they have cut offs for per section scores but I'm not sure what they are. Also, what does it take to be a competitive applicant to these programs? Thanks all!
I was pretty seriously considering it, but I spent some time exploring the forum here:

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/military-medicine.72/

And I'm now leaning against it. As far as your 124 section, it might hurt your chances. Last I heard, it was a 125 minimum in all sections. I can't speak to what is considered "competitive," but I know that the automatic acceptance criteria is cGPA: 3.6 and an MCAT of 507. I imagine that competitive falls somewhere a little less than that.
 
I have been working through the recruitment process for the past month. I have been on the fence because I don't come from a strong military family, and don't feel as if I know what I'm truly getting myself into.. This is a little nerve-wracking for me because I have read through the forums the above poster linked you to, and I feel like if I don't have someone that will have my back (that knows the ins & outs of the system) I will get screwed over.

Putting that fear completely aside, here is why I decided not to join the program:

My recruiter had me meet him before I had my medical exam so that he could tell me to lie to the doctors and other healthcare staff working that day so that I could expedite the process of being accepted into HPSP. Apparently this is a very common thing to happen (for recruiters to tell their recruits, HPSP and otherwise, to lie to the medical officers) because the first 30 minutes I spent there with my group consisted of a presentation on how the medical staff knows that recruiters tell you to lie, and they explain how that screws you over down the road (dishonorable discharge.)

Why is this a problem (IMO)? Because, as a future physicians who will be one day taking care of these people who are being told to lie about their medical histories, we will be missing potentially crucial knowledge that could help us make more accurate diagnosis in the future. In addition, this propagates the idea that it is okay to lie to doctors in their future visits. How are we supposed to do our jobs as physicians in the military if everyone is okay with lying to us about their health? That's like taking a mechanic's hammer and asking him to fix your car... There's a reason you don't have to pay for malpractice insurance in the military... it's because the physician are lied to by all of the patients and the physicians are incapable of making accurate diagnosis! (And I'm sure that not every single person in the military lies about their health... but you get what I'm saying here...)

In addition to this, think about what else is potentially going on once you are in the program and they have complete control over your life. If, at the forefront of this program, there is a constant battle between recruiters telling their recruits to lie and the healthcare workers telling the recruits to tell the truth, what other kind of battles like this take place within the system that we can't yet see as outsiders?

Another addition to this, at least from my experience, is my recruiter has frequently been telling me "half truths." This person hasn't withheld information from me or lied to me, they have just not told me the entirety of the story multiple times (with different issues.) I don't want to have to deal with this while I am in medical school, looking for a residency, or while practicing as a physician.

I have also asked many times to be put in contact with someone that has been through the program and is in residency or is a practicing physician and have only gotten one contact. When I attempted to e-mail this practicing physician, I asked questions I was legitimately concerned with (is the DO stigma more pronounced in the military world? How much control does the military truly have over your residency placement? Are you happy you did HPSP and would you choose to do it again?) and have not received a response (it has been numerous weeks.)

These are just my general thoughts... I had my medical exam last Friday, so I'm still really frustrated with the entire situation. I ended up not taking my recruiters' advise, and I told the physician my entire medical history, and I'm glad I did.

After researching this program as much as I can, including speaking to current HPSP students, a couple military physicians (who weren't HPSP), and friends/family, I have decided that it isn't a good choice for me, personally.

All things considered, I think someone who comes from a military family, knows what they're getting into, and is applying out of a genuine desire to serve, would be a great fit for this program.
 
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I've been in the Navy for five years almost and am attempting to go to medical school through the Navy to stay active duty. If you have any questions about the military in general or Navy medicine, send me a PM (I can give you general answers to the second--operational medicine as an HM is different than being an MD/DO obviously).
 
I was originally going to do hpsp, but after looking into the financials of it, decided against it. It really seems like it's only "worth it" financially if you go into primary care and even then that's debatable. This is especially true when you consider all of the incentives for rural primary care such as nhsc, pslf ( if it will still exist), and even fap if you still want to join up but want a little more control over your residency options.

I always wanted to serve, but it just seemed like a rip off to me.


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8 years active duty HM here. Did my time with USMC infantry and in a hospital. Unless you have true intentions to serve do NOT take this path. This is not a path just for the financial incentives. You will have to endure a bunch of roadblocks and BS, granted less than we do on the enlisted side, but still much more than on the civilian side. Not to mention GMO tours interfering with residency on many occasions.
If you have a true desire to serve than this path is excellent. You will gain a lot of experience and leadership and do things you most likely never would have before. But just do your research and make sure you know what your getting yourself into.
 
My fiancé and I were both recently accepted to Navy HPSP. I have a 503 MCAT, 123/124/129/128.

As someone who has had no prior exposure to the military (via family, friends, etc.) the decision was difficult, and it took a LOT of investigation. A lot of this process revolves around asking the right questions, and that can be challenging when we are at such an early stage of our medical careers, and may be unfamiliar with military culture and what the commitment really entails. My advice is this: seek out people (i.e. medical students, residents, attending physicians) who are familiar with the process and will be able to provide you with first-hand accounts of medicine in the military, and specifically with HPSP. I have read over and over, and been advised by military physicians, to not always take your recruiters advice at face value. I went through three different recruiters (it's a long process) and some were certainly more reliable than others. Often, things I would read online (and on these forums) about HPSP would turn out to not be completely accurate when compared to information gleaned from physicians who had first-hand experience.

I learned that it is a very personal decision that is a wonderful option for some folks, and maybe not the best route for others. It's a decision that no one else can make for you. For me, I ultimately chose to accept the scholarship because I am willing to accept a little bit of risk, and unknowns, for the benefits of the experience. To name a few:

1. I have a genuine interest in service. Through work in a level 1 trauma center, I have had an opportunity to get to know and work with military healthcare workers who rotate through our facility. It's changed my perspective on military service and given me insight into military culture - and I honestly find it very interesting and have truly enjoyed learning about what drives them to serve. I discovered that I shared a lot of common goals, passions, and personality characteristics with these individuals. Additionally, I toured the naval hospital in Pensacola, and am scheduled to visit the naval hospital at Camp Lejeune next month. I am sitting down with physicians in these facilities and getting further exposure to daily life as a military doc (you can request these tours via recruiters, or ask people you interview with if they'd be willing to provide any assistance in setting up these kinds of opportunities).

2. I am pursuing internal medicine, and have no interest in highly competitive specialties. This is a complaint that I see often (that you will be less competitive). Although this is anecdotal, I will add that I have spoken with an HPSP physician who was the director of a competitive interventional radiology program, interviewed with a naval dermatologist and orthopedist, and met/personally know many emergency medicine residents and physicians who completed HPSP. I feel that although this claim may hold some validity, it is clearly possible to pursue and practice within specialty fields in military medicine. Also - if you complete a GMO tour, I have been advised (by physicians who did them, and a couple of residency directors) that they can actually serve to make you MORE competitive for residencies due to the immersive, diverse, and quality leadership opportunities that you gain from the unique experience/exposure.

3. I am open to the possibility of a GMO tour. This is also a major point of misinformation and misunderstanding. Again, it took asking multiple people with GMO experience about what this commitment entails, how it can affect residency, what you will be doing, is it mandatory, how long it is, etc. Feel free to PM me if you want further info on this – there is a lot to be aware of and understand.

4. I am open to the idea of there being ambiguity in where I may be stationed. Although you are able to make stationing requests, it is not guaranteed. One reason I chose the navy was because I will be much more likely to end up living on the coast, and I am comfortable living on any coast for a short period of time if required of me.

5. I have a passion for humanitarian work, international medical relief, and travel. The navy offers a LOT of really cool/unique/adventurous opportunities to pursue these paths.

6. I am open to the possibility of deployment. This was a major area of concern for me. This will expose my initial naiveté about military medicine, but I had absurd visions of being strapped with some kind of high-powered weapon and thrown into some terrifying combat situation. This took a lot of education on my part to learn exactly what physician deployment entails in the military, how it will differ between different branches, lengths of stay, frequency, safety, and finally that “deployment” does not necessarily = going to a combat zone, or even near one. Although, I have accepted that deployment to a combat zone is a possibility. I have spoken with many military physicians who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. But physician safety in the military is taken very seriously – you are a valuable resource in which they have heavily invested. All in all, after learning about these physicians experiences in combat zones, I think it would be an incredibly rewarding and unique experience. Their stories were truly remarkable.

7. Finally, my fiancé and I are 28, and we are both attending medical school. We are looking at $500,000+ of debt when we are 33, and your income as a resident won’t really make a dent in it – so that’s another 3 – 4 years at least before you can really start to address that mountain of debt. In my experience, and after speaking with many residents and attendings regarding this, I have come to a few conclusions about this kind of debt, mainly – I don’t want it. I don’t want that kind of debt bearing down on my husband and I after working so hard to get to that point in life. Not only will you come out debt-free with the military, but you are provided with a monthly stipend and a sign-on bonus (Navy offers $20,000), effectively making your experience in medical school more comfortable and less stressful. Of course, like everyone says, don’t join just for the money, but certainly don’t bat your eyes at the economic opportunities that this kind of debt relief will afford you in the future, and while in school.

Anyway – this was meant for you, and whoever else may be interested in this path, to get a glimpse into my decision process and why I ultimately chose this. Clearly, it took a lot (seriously, like, a ridiculous amount) of investigation to decide that this was a path I was willing to travel, and I strongly recommend to anyone considering HPSP to do the same.

Edit: I wanted to add an additional point to consider: the military really, really wants you to be happy, enjoy your experience, and provide you with as much control over your time served as possible. By being offered the scholarship and accepting it, you are accepting a job offer. I have spoken with many military docs who choose to become career military. They have provided me with many different reasons for why that is, but one seems to remain pretty steady: they gave me an offer I couldn't refuse. The military needs doctors. They don't want to lose you - your happiness is their ticket to keeping your services. For example, I was initially concerned about potentially being separated from my husband but after multiple conversations with military residents and attendings, I learned pretty quickly that that would never happen unless there was some kind of extreme circumstance. They will make honest attempts to station you in your top 5, and you have some say over deployment. I would say that there is more choice in military medicine than a lot of people give it credit for.
 
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I spoke with a recruiter and he told me that they make exceptions towards the end of the school year for people who have made subsections with 123. The minimum gross score is 500. I was told that it is not competitive as they frequently do not make their recruitment number, hence why they run HPSP recruitment all the way up until August.

I did not get that in writing, but that is what the Sergeant told me.
 
I spoke with a recruiter and he told me that they make exceptions towards the end of the school year for people who have made subsections with 123. The minimum gross score is 500. I was told that it is not competitive as they frequently do not make their recruitment number, hence why they run HPSP recruitment all the way up until August.

I did not get that in writing, but that is what the Sergeant told me.

So a 124 in one section shouldn't hurt my chances you don't think?
 
So a 124 in one section shouldn't hurt my chances you don't think?
You'll be fine. Just don't join because of the promise of no debt. When you do the math, you actually lose money by joining because officer pay is crap.

Good luck, my friend.
 
You'll be fine. Just don't join because of the promise of no debt. When you do the math, you actually lose money by joining because officer pay is crap.

Good luck, my friend.

I'm from a strong military family and have always considered serving. Thank you for your advice!
 
I was just accepted to Navy HPSP with a 503 overall, 123 and 124 in verbal and physical, respectively. I was told as long as you have a 500 you will be fine.
 
I'm currently in the process and nearly set for my application to be complete (I'm missing the all important acceptance letter, still working on that) And in particular, I was also debating on attending west point a long time ago due to....well I was stupid. I opted not to go mainly because I wanted a normal college career.

Reason I'm going for this again is because it's something that does interest me. Long story short the army has been a big part of my life with my father as retired army and we've been using the healthcare system they have along with their doctors, and they're some of the best people I've had the pleasure of knowing. I'm a little bit on the fence, but as of right now, it'd be a huge help to try and pay for my medical school, as well as later possibly be able to take a fellowship with them for specializing. (namely with me I want to do IM and possibly Rhematology as a specialization later, but they want you to work with your initial degree first for a bit).

Also one upside is that as a DO, according to someone who's been through the HPSP whose link I will attach later, no matter which specialty I want I just have to take the COMLEX, the Army doesn't need you to take both. So it's a nice little thing to know in the future.

That being said https://sites.google.com/site/myarmyhpspexperience/ this might help you a bit more, it's from a person that went through the HPSP experience (They're in 2nd year now and are also getting information from someone on SDN who's been through the entire thing) . It's where I got a lot of my information and a lot of stuff that managed to calm me down. (Including the fact that I'd be signed onto the army as a doctor, and not thrown into the front lines to cry and panic, that was one really big fear of mine that has since gone down since I've gotten my head on straight).

As for OP's actual worry, 124 they made a point to mention (as my first MCAT I had a 124 in Chem/Phys) is their cut off for any section, but I've sure they've had exceptions before. I'm currently a 3.34 cGPA and about a 3.1-3.2 sGPA depending who's looking through my classes and a 503 MCAT and she said I have a decent enough chance. Just, if you're considering it, find a recruiter and talk to them ASAP, and get the info from them as well and move fast. I see you've got acceptances so you're in a good position to blast through everything you need to get done (and if you get into another school later that you prefer, double check on this one but I'm 90% positive you can change the school to use the scholarship on) and not end up in the air like me waiting.

If you've got any more questions about this shoot me or probably anyone else here a PM. A lot of us will probably be happy to give our opinions about this.



....also join Army, we finally won the football game, WOO!
 
It's not a bad gig if you can deal with the bs. There're a lot of bs.

However, you will lose out financially in all specialties unless your estimated debt is 500+K. Even at the most expensive DOs out there, the total debt is about 300-320K. That's hardly a deal breaker considering that it will be cut by 50% due to subsidies from different programs out there for you. Now, if you're a dental student, HPSP is an awesome deal.
 
Gang,

I know you want to believe that the Milmed forum is a bunch of bitter old no loads but, you're on SDN. That means you had access to the truth. So when you are dying inside 12 years from now, you'll have only yourselves to blame and no right to complain.

G
 
Gang,

I know you want to believe that the Milmed forum is a bunch of bitter old no loads but, you're on SDN. That means you had access to the truth. So when you are dying inside 12 years from now, you'll have only yourselves to blame and no right to complain.

G

Are you saying you're a fan or not a fan of HPSP?
 
I do!
Although I'm not aware of specific details. But I want to serve for at least 4 years!
 
Outside of the money, you need to think about the fact that once you finish medical school, the military has full jurisdiction as to where you go, whether you will get to opt out of the military match for a civilian match, whether they need you in a specific department. They can relocate you at their will.

Do your research extensively and do not take a recruiters advice at face value.


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My fiancé and I were both recently accepted to Navy HPSP. I have a 503 MCAT, 123/124/129/128.

As someone who has had no prior exposure to the military (via family, friends, etc.) the decision was difficult, and it took a LOT of investigation. A lot of this process revolves around asking the right questions, and that can be challenging when we are at such an early stage of our medical careers, and may be unfamiliar with military culture and what the commitment really entails. My advice is this: seek out people (i.e. medical students, residents, attending physicians) who are familiar with the process and will be able to provide you with first-hand accounts of medicine in the military, and specifically with HPSP. I have read over and over, and been advised by military physicians, to not always take your recruiters advice at face value. I went through three different recruiters (it's a long process) and some were certainly more reliable than others. Often, things I would read online (and on these forums) about HPSP would turn out to not be completely accurate when compared to information gleaned from physicians who had first-hand experience.

I learned that it is a very personal decision that is a wonderful option for some folks, and maybe not the best route for others. It's a decision that no one else can make for you. For me, I ultimately chose to accept the scholarship because I am willing to accept a little bit of risk, and unknowns, for the benefits of the experience. To name a few:

1. I have a genuine interest in service. Through work in a level 1 trauma center, I have had an opportunity to get to know and work with military healthcare workers who rotate through our facility. It's changed my perspective on military service and given me insight into military culture - and I honestly find it very interesting and have truly enjoyed learning about what drives them to serve. I discovered that I shared a lot of common goals, passions, and personality characteristics with these individuals. Additionally, I toured the naval hospital in Pensacola, and am scheduled to visit the naval hospital at Camp Lejeune next month. I am sitting down with physicians in these facilities and getting further exposure to daily life as a military doc (you can request these tours via recruiters, or ask people you interview with if they'd be willing to provide any assistance in setting up these kinds of opportunities).

2. I am pursuing internal medicine, and have no interest in highly competitive specialties. This is a complaint that I see often (that you will be less competitive). Although this is anecdotal, I will add that I have spoken with an HPSP physician who was the director of a competitive interventional radiology program, interviewed with a naval dermatologist and orthopedist, and met/personally know many emergency medicine residents and physicians who completed HPSP. I feel that although this claim may hold some validity, it is clearly possible to pursue and practice within specialty fields in military medicine. Also - if you complete a GMO tour, I have been advised (by physicians who did them, and a couple of residency directors) that they can actually serve to make you MORE competitive for residencies due to the immersive, diverse, and quality leadership opportunities that you gain from the unique experience/exposure.

3. I am open to the possibility of a GMO tour. This is also a major point of misinformation and misunderstanding. Again, it took asking multiple people with GMO experience about what this commitment entails, how it can affect residency, what you will be doing, is it mandatory, how long it is, etc. Feel free to PM me if you want further info on this – there is a lot to be aware of and understand.

3. I am open to the idea of there being ambiguity in where I may be stationed. Although you are able to make stationing requests, it is not guaranteed. One reason I chose the navy was because I will be much more likely to end up living on the coast, and I am comfortable living on any coast for a short period of time if required of me.

4. I have a passion for humanitarian work, international medical relief, and travel. The navy offers a LOT of really cool/unique/adventurous opportunities to pursue these paths.

Could you explain more in point 4? Thanks for the post!


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Does joining the army HPSP increase the likely hood of matching into a surgical specialty as a DO? I know they have the largest GME program but I'm not sure if the PDs have an MD bias or not.
 
Could you explain more in point 4? Thanks for the post!


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Hey! Sorry. I posted "3." twice on that post. Are you wanting to know more about stationing requests or international medical opportunities?
 
Hey! Sorry. I posted "3." twice on that post. Are you wanting to know more about stationing requests or international medical opportunities?

The international / humanistic options. Also, did you consider NHSC?


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The international / humanistic options. Also, did you consider NHSC?


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With regard to NHSC, I can't comment much there. I have heard about it and it seems like a great option. Personally, I was drawn to the military side of service, mostly for the reasons mentioned in my original post.

International medicine and humanitarian relief are a significant part of military medicine, the navy especially. The navy is always prepared to respond to most any international crises. There are a lot of opportunities to take part in these types of missions. For example, the navy commissions huge hospital ships (like the USS Mercy and the USS Comfort) in times of humanitarian disaster and crises. Look up navy relief efforts during the earthquake in Haiti. Additionally, the navy heavily participates in ongoing humanitarian efforts such as the Partnership for Americas and the Pacific Partnership. The navy offers avenues for physicians to request these types of deployments while serving.

For example, in the most recent disaster in Haiti, the navy sent in amphibious ships and marine units to respond. There are opportunities to be attached to these groups during GMO tours. In this instance, you would he providing care to military members involved search and rescue operations.

With regard to travel opportunities, the navy has coastal bases all over the world. I have spoken with physicians who requested stationing in Italy, Japan, Hawaii, Germany, etc. While there, you provide services to the military community living on your base.

There is a lot of info online about humanitarian and disaster relief efforts coordinated by the navy. I'd recommend beginning that investigation via reading about USS Mercy and Comfort.
 
Does joining the army HPSP increase the likely hood of matching into a surgical specialty as a DO? I know they have the largest GME program but I'm not sure if the PDs have an MD bias or not.
Yes it does. The military match is 2 weeks prior to the civilian match and if you don't like your match, my current understanding is that you can do the civilian match as well. ... just don't join the Army because you think you might want to do surgery. My desire to be a trauma surgeon fueled my grades and MCAT score. Now I think I'll go for Rads or EM. It would really suck if I joined up just because of anticipated surgery chances.

Edit: You're signing years away from your life. Think VERY hard about your motivations before signing that contract. Please be careful.
 
Yes it does. The military match is 2 weeks prior to the civilian match and if you don't like your match, my current understanding is that you can do the civilian match as well. ... just don't join the Army because you think you might want to do surgery. My desire to be a trauma surgeon fueled my grades and MCAT score. Now I think I'll go for Rads or EM. It would really suck if I joined up just because of anticipated surgery chances.

Edit: You're signing years away from your life. Think VERY hard about your motivations before signing that contract. Please be careful.

Definitely not going to join for GME alone. I come from a very patriotic family and have always had a desire to serve. HPSP just seems like the right opportunity to do so!
 
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