AOA dermatology residencies

[rubisco88]

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How competitive is it to get an AOA dermatology residency coming out of an osteopathic school vs. getting an allopathic derm residency as an allopathic student? Are there any significant disadvantages if one pursues an AOA derm residency vs. an allopathic derm residency especially if one primarily wants to do clinical work and not really academics /research?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I don't think there is a real way of comparing the chances and many of the AOA derm programs are dual IM-Derm programs. But otherwise post-residency you're probably going to be just as successful as your MD counter part.

I'm going to add though that it might be easier getting into Derm as a DO if you attend a school with many Derm programs.

 

[rubisco88]

Which DO schools have good derm programs? I am guessing NSU-COM would be one of them.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

getting in DO derm as a DO is probably the same as MD derm as a MD. They are still crazy competitive because it is arguably the number one lifestyle specialty. And being that there are plenty of people that attend DO schools that could have/would have been very successful at an MD school, you are going to be competing against some top notch students.

 

[Larynx]

.

 

[cliquesh]

How competitive is it to get an AOA dermatology residency coming out of an osteopathic school vs. getting an allopathic derm residency as an allopathic student? Are there any significant disadvantages if one pursues an AOA derm residency vs. an allopathic derm residency especially if one primarily wants to do clinical work and not really academics /research?

There are 25 AOA derm residencies currently. Most of them take one or two students per year. There were about 4500 DOs that graduated last year. So, as you can see, the odds are not very good, and even if you do incredibly well at a DO school it is extremely unlikely you'll match at an acgme program.

 

[rubisco88]

Those statistics don't sound THAT bad when compared to trying to get into derm as an MD. Not all 4500 students are going to apply to derm. If 1/4 to 1/2 of 4500 end up applying to a derm residency, you still have a 1-4% chance of getting in. The young MD derm I work with said that for every 100 applicants only 1 person will get a spot... so a 1% chance as an MD grad. I don't think it's impossible to get a derm residency as a DO as many people seem to think/say on SDN. I think you have about the same chance as an MD if not a little better. Plus there are a few lucky DO grads that do match into allo derm, like the one person at my state school.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

A question I have is why even require a medical degree to become a dermatologist? That seems like a profession that could be spun off life dentistry.

You could have PCPs diagnose skin cancer and of course oncologists to treat it.

The rest of the stuff, acne, wrinkles, stretch marks, weight, etc. you could train for without a medical degree.

or am I being naive?

 

[rubisco88]

There is more to derm than meets the eye. Dermatologists also do small procedures like removing cysts, lipomas, skin cancers, and other lesions. They also have to know a lot of dermatopathology.

 

[oms2]

derm was not competitive or prestigious until med students found out about the money and the banker's hours:

Int J Dermatol. 1989 Jul-Aug;28(6):377-80.
The prestige of dermatologists. Are they "last among equals"?
Rosoff SM, Leone MC. University of California, Irvine.

notice the date.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

A question I have is why even require a medical degree to become a dermatologist? That seems like a profession that could be spun off life dentistry.

You could have PCPs diagnose skin cancer and of course oncologists to treat it.

The rest of the stuff, acne, wrinkles, stretch marks, weight, etc. you could train for without a medical degree.

or am I being naive?

Dermopathology is complex and oncologists don't treat skin cancers usually, usually rad oncologists or procedural dermatologists ( Surgical dermatologists, which do Moh's surgery).

derm was not competitive or prestigious until med students found out about the money and the banker's hours:

Int J Dermatol. 1989 Jul-Aug;28(6):377-80.
The prestige of dermatologists. Are they "last among equals"?
Rosoff SM, Leone MC. University of California, Irvine.

notice the date.

Dermatology is relaxed, there's enormous demand for them almost everywhere and the job is relatively light as no one dies. The atmosphere in derm is simply divine in my opinion, the only other specialty that gets close to that is psychiatry.

 

[gettheleadout]

A question I have is why even require a medical degree to become a dermatologist? That seems like a profession that could be spun off life dentistry.

You could have PCPs diagnose skin cancer and of course oncologists to treat it.

The rest of the stuff, acne, wrinkles, stretch marks, weight, etc. you could train for without a medical degree.

or am I being naive?

Derm is not cosmetology.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

Dermopathology is complex and oncologists don't treat skin cancers usually, usually rad oncologists or procedural dermatologists ( Surgical dermatologists, which do Moh's surgery).




Dermatology is relaxed, there's enormous demand for them almost everywhere and the job is relatively light as no one dies. The atmosphere in derm is simply divine in my opinion, the only other specialty that gets close to that is psychiatry.

Ya... dermatology isn't for me.

 

[MedPR]

I shadowed a Derm/Mohs surgeon and her lifestyle seems pretty awesome. She does 6-7 surgeries MWTF and 4-5 consults on Thursdays. She doesn't work weekends. Also, she is a DO (if that matters to anyone).

There are 25 AOA derm residencies currently. Most of them take one or two students per year. There were about 4500 DOs that graduated last year. So, as you can see, the odds are not very good, and even if you do incredibly well at a DO school it is extremely unlikely you'll match at an acgme program.

Not all 4500 tried to match derm. I don't think it's "extremely unlikely" for someone who does "incredibly well" at a DO school to match ACGME.

 

[DrBowtie]

IIRC, a few of the AOA derm spots were unpaid. Check the SDN archive for previous discussion.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

I shadowed a Derm/Mohs surgeon and her lifestyle seems pretty awesome. She does 6-7 surgeries MWTF and 4-5 consults on Thursdays. She doesn't work weekends. Also, she is a DO (if that matters to anyone).



Not all 4500 tried to match derm. I don't think it's "extremely unlikely" for someone who does "incredibly well" at a DO school to match ACGME.

Not going to argue the lifestyle is very good. I went to a dermatologist once, his office was in this millionaire's suburbs, he ran his own practice, had his MBA, and was probably rolling in money.

But I'm not someone who has a love for money or even a luxurious lifestyle. As holier than thou as that sounds.

 

[MedPR]

Not going to argue the lifestyle is very good. I went to a dermatologist once, his office was in this millionaire's suburbs, he ran his own practice, had his MBA, and was probably rolling in money.

But I'm not someone who has a love for money or even a luxurious lifestyle.

Well you don't have to do derm just for the money, you know.

 

[donkeykong1]

Dermopathology is complex and oncologists don't treat skin cancers usually, usually rad oncologists or procedural dermatologists ( Surgical dermatologists, which do Moh's surgery).




Dermatology is relaxed, there's enormous demand for them almost everywhere and the job is relatively light as no one dies. The atmosphere in derm is simply divine in my opinion, the only other specialty that gets close to that is psychiatry.

jk

 

[UrshumMurshum]

Well you don't have to do derm just for the money, you know.

I want to treat people with illnesses not cosmetic issues. Yes derms aren't constrained to just cosmetic stuff, but honestly it's gotta make up a major part if not the bulk of their work.

 

[cliquesh]

I want to treat people with illnesses not cosmetic issues. Yes derms aren't constrained to just cosmetic stuff, but honestly it's gotta make up a major part if not the bulk of their work.

If you do a moh fellowship it is all cancer for the most part, which would be cool in my opinion. Dermatology, as a subject, is actually pretty hard

 

[MedPR]

I want to treat people with illnesses not cosmetic issues. Yes derms aren't constrained to just cosmetic stuff, but honestly it's gotta make up a major part if not the bulk of their work.

Mohs surgeons primarily remove skin cancers. Skin cancer is the most common form of cancer and I imagine a good amount of the "regular" Dermatologists diagnose and refer many skin cancer patients on a weekly basis.

What specialties did you have in mind that are more illness oriented than Derm?

 

[Dr Dazzle]

What's up with DO programs requiring IM residency and then moving to derm? Further, what's all the fuss about not being paid in residency as a DO derm? Please clarify...

 

[donkeykong1]

What's up with DO programs requiring IM residency and then moving to derm? Further, what's all the fuss about not being paid in residency as a DO derm? Please clarify...

some require 3 years of FM. then you do 3 years of derm. in the end you're a board certified FM and derm physician. also during your derm years, there are pportunities to moonlight as an FM doc while training in derm

 

[UrshumMurshum]

Mohs surgeons primarily remove skin cancers. Skin cancer is the most common form of cancer and I imagine a good amount of the "regular" Dermatologists diagnose and refer many skin cancer patients on a weekly basis.

What specialties did you have in mind that are more illness oriented than Derm?

Certainly I have a lot more respect for derms involved with chemosurgery.

80% of skin cancers are basal cell carcinomas which are rare to undergo metastasis. Yes, melanoma is probably one of the if not THE deadliest type of cancer, but again I go back to my original statement that for dermatologists this type of work is probably not the majority of what they're doing unless they are trained in mohs surgery like the one you shadowed.

 

[gettheleadout]

I imagine few patients make appointments with academic dermatologists for cosmetic issues... I could be totally wrong but my guess would be that only dermatologists who bill themselves in private practice as focused on cosmetic issues would have a majority of patients' issues be cosmetic.