AOA vs ACGME

[GreysHouse]

I'm a pre-med student and I had a question about post-graduate training, specifically residencies.

I'm interested in osteopathic medicine and they've got their own set of boards (COMLEX) and their own certifying boards for various specialties.

So hypothetically, if an osteopathic student was interested in doing a general surgical residency, they could go to an AOA-approved or ACGME-approved program (and I guess dual approved programs, if available).

Is there really a difference between whether someone goes to an allopathic or osteopathic surgical residency program? Does the quality truly differ? In the end, you're eligible to sit for the boards: ABS for allopathic programs and the AOBS for osteopathic program. And just as an M.D. can earn the "FACS" after his/her name, a D.O. can earn the "FACOS" after their name as well.

It seems like it's a name game and there's this perception that M.D. training is better but in the end... a doctor is a doctor and our loyalties are to the patient.

But what do I know? I'm still an undergrad so any posts with your feedback, experiences, and what you've learned would be greatly appreciated! Merci beaucoup.

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[DrMom]

It is variable. There definitely are AOA residencies that are high quality, but there are others that aren't. And, yes, DOs can apply for ACGME residencies. In some specialties it is more difficult for DOs to get ACGME spots, though. (mostly surgical subspecialties and derm)

 

[Spectrum]

It is variable. There definitely are AOA residencies that are high quality, but there are others that aren't. And, yes, DOs can apply for ACGME residencies. In some specialties it is more difficult for DOs to get ACGME spots, though. (mostly surgical subspecialties and derm)

What about future job opportunities? Is it common for major hospitals (say affiliated w/ allopathic training programs) to discriminate against an AOA trained physician. For example, how often do you see M.D. or D.O. required “w/ ACGME residency training”…? Is it safer to just do the allo residency to maximize employment options? Or are hospitals who care not likely to take D.O.s anyway? I’m interested in E.M. hence the interest in how hospital employers operate.

 

[DrMom]

You may find pockets of discrimination, but it isn't common anymore.

 

[peppy]

Personally, I would consider it an advantage to be a DO if you are interested in EM - there are numerous osteopathic EM residencies and many DOs in the field, so you have pletny of mentors available to you and many opportunities for residency training.
This is in contrast to, say, being a DO interested in Radiation Oncology.

 

[Doowai]

What about future job opportunities? Is it common for major hospitals (say affiliated w/ allopathic training programs) to discriminate against an AOA trained physician. For example, how often do you see M.D. or D.O. required “w/ ACGME residency training”…? Is it safer to just do the allo residency to maximize employment options? Or are hospitals who care not likely to take D.O.s anyway? I’m interested in E.M. hence the interest in how hospital employers operate.

I think it will not get harder for DO's to be in hospitals at all and will probably only get easier. I think the big issue with EM in a "major" hospital or big city is malpractice insurance - and from what I understand a board certified EM oestopath is as good a candidate as a EM board certified MD. I good friend of mine is a DO , he did do a ACGME EM residency - but the main issue is can they get liability coverage.

 

[Spectrum]

I think it will not get harder for DO's to be in hospitals at all and will probably only get easier. I think the big issue with EM in a "major" hospital or big city is malpractice insurance - and from what I understand a board certified EM oestopath is as good a candidate as a EM board certified MD. I good friend of mine is a DO , he did do a ACGME EM residency - but the main issue is can they get liability coverage.

Funny you mention liability coverage; aside from all of the other altruistic reasons for being attracted to a hospital -based specialty, having someone else pick up the liability insurance tab is surely a big reason. Do you mean to say that liability ins would be more for a D.O. EM doc? More for D.O.s? Or are you just making a general statement about the cost of liability ins for E.M. docs?

 

[Spectrum]

Personally, I would consider it an advantage to be a DO if you are interested in EM - there are numerous osteopathic EM residencies and many DOs in the field, so you have pletny of mentors available to you and many opportunities for residency training.
This is in contrast to, say, being a DO interested in Radiation Oncology.

I checked out the POH residency programs today. The hospital looks impressive, do you know anything about it?

 

[peppy]

If I were applying to EM, the main reason I would be hesitant to consider POH is just because of the city it's in. Pontiac is not the safest or friendliest town. POH might be a good learning experience if you are looking for that "inner city" ED experience, though.

Among metro Detroit EM residencies for DOs, a few that I would recommend taking a look at would be the programs at Mount Clemens Regional Medical Center (they get a lot of the trauma cases for the area) and Henry Ford Macomb-Clinton Township location (large patient volume, good mixture of demographics, and the program director for EM seemed friendly and enthusiastic). I have heard excellent things about the EM program at Sparrow hospital in Lansing too though I have never rotated there.