ap board first then cp?

[cellmatrix]

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most people take the ap and cp boards together...what are the potential advantages or disadvantages of separately taking ap first after residency and then cp boards after completion of a cp fellowship?

thanks!

 

[Pathguy11]

I actually haven't heard of anyone doing it in this order though I am sure some do. i know several people including myself who took CP after residency and the AP after our Surgical Pathology fellowships. I have never been a great standardized test taker so this was a strategy for me to seperate them and concentrate on just one at a time. It worked for me, not to say I wouldn't have passed if I would have attempted both at the same time but for me it was worth the extra money to have a better shot of passing both. For me it worked and I passed both on the first time.

Positives: less to study for all at one time (less stress); possibly a better chance to pass

Negatives: it costs more to do them seperately..$1800 per exam ($3600 total) versus ~$2300 if you take them both at the same time, plus two trips and hotel stays in Tampa. Then again if you take them both at $2300 and fail one then you are looking at $2300 + $1800 = $4100 after you retake. i would recommend you look at the big picture including your strengths and weaknesses in training, you testing ability, available time to study, etc to make the decision that is best for your. As an aside, everyone I know who took them seperatedly ended up passing both. Good luck on your decision.

Pathguy11

 

[cellmatrix]

thanks. do fellowship program directors care about general ap or cp board performance? My thought is that this is more of a personal matter since most jobs typically require passage of both components. I would expect the fellowship director to care primarily about passage of subspecialty boards since that is a reflection on their fellowship training.

 

[superkeith]

My thought is that this is more of a personal matter since most jobs typically require passage of both components.

as a reminder, if you completed a combined ap/cp program, you are not licensed until you pass both the AP and CP components of the exam.

 

[sirenomelia]

I actually haven't heard of anyone doing it in this order though I am sure some do. i know several people including myself who took CP after residency and the AP after our Surgical Pathology fellowships. I have never been a great standardized test taker so this was a strategy for me to seperate them and concentrate on just one at a time. It worked for me, not to say I wouldn't have passed if I would have attempted both at the same time but for me it was worth the extra money to have a better shot of passing both. For me it worked and I passed both on the first time.

Positives: less to study for all at one time (less stress); possibly a better chance to pass

Negatives: it costs more to do them seperately..$1800 per exam ($3600 total) versus ~$2300 if you take them both at the same time, plus two trips and hotel stays in Tampa. Then again if you take them both at $2300 and fail one then you are looking at $2300 + $1800 = $4100 after you retake. i would recommend you look at the big picture including your strengths and weaknesses in training, you testing ability, available time to study, etc to make the decision that is best for your. As an aside, everyone I know who took them seperatedly ended up passing both. Good luck on your decision.

Pathguy11

Good thread and great post.
The SP training in my residency was pathetic so I split them (CP first) and passed both on first attempt. I did 2 fellowships and they weren't concerned about boards but some fellowships allow you to sign out as a junior attending for some extra $ if your boards are done. I will say if you are prepared and can knock out both in Spring of PGY4 than do it because both tests are excercises in memorization of esoteric minutia which evaporate from your cortex from the day you leave training to go to work and focus attention on things that actually matter. Also, i found that despite so many job adds advertising for a certified or board eligible person employers, particularly pp seemed to really want people with boards done.

 

[Ruination]

I am in the process of doing this. I am an AP/CP resident. I completed my AP training and surg path fellowship last year and took AP boards at that time. I am in the process of finshing my last year of CP and will take CP boards this spring.

You have to register initially as an "AP only" or "CP only" candidate to go this route. In order to be able to do this you need to have 5 total years of training (2 years AP, 2 years CP, 1 year fellowship). If you do a fellowship it cannot be board certifiable. I don't know how this would work if you trained at a place where the AP and CP programs were completely integrated.

It will end up costing you an additional $1400 in exam fees plus double the hotel/airfare costs. For me it wasn't a problem, as we get paid to take surgical pathology call as a fellow (and afterwards), so I could afford to do this.

I thought it was much easier to study for a single exam than two, particularly when they are composed of tons of esoterica and are completely unrelated to the actual practice of pathology. I also did this because I have had significant personal events to plan as well during this time, so I couldn't be 1000% invested in studying for two exams.

Anyway, that's my take. I'd do it again the same way if I had to.

 

[Pathguy11]

You have to register initially as an "AP only" or "CP only" candidate to go this route. In order to be able to do this you need to have 5 total years of training (2 years AP, 2 years CP, 1 year fellowship). If you do a fellowship it cannot be board certifiable. I don't know how this would work if you trained at a place where the AP and CP programs were completely integrated.

Yea if I remeber correctly there is an option for selecting AP only of AP/CP or CP only of AP/CP. I believe this is different than just signing up for AP only or CP only since the former suggests that you will be taking both. That's how it was when I did it in the past two years. And as someone earlier mentioned, you are NOT board certified until you pass both...then again it buys you one more year before MOC and recertification...WHOOHOO!

Pathguy11

 

[mlw03]

Is there no longer an option for an AP/CP resident to pay to drop one or the other, say if they pass AP but can't pass CP and don't care to keep trying? I thought someone had told me this was possible in the past.

 

[Pathguy11]

Is there no longer an option for an AP/CP resident to pay to drop one or the other, say if they pass AP but can't pass CP and don't care to keep trying? I thought someone had told me this was possible in the past.

Yes there is still this option as far as I understand (at least as of two years ago), though it is discouraged by the ABP. I also vaguely remember something about having to remediate or even repeat the portion of your training you "drop" in this scenerio if you decide you need it later. Don't quote me on this but this is what I remember Dr Bennett of the ABP saying two years ago at a Residents Forum meeting.

Pathguy11

 

[Ruination]

Yea if I remeber correctly there is an option for selecting AP only of AP/CP or CP only of AP/CP. I believe this is different than just signing up for AP only or CP only since the former suggests that you will be taking both. That's how it was when I did it in the past two years. And as someone earlier mentioned, you are NOT board certified until you pass both...then again it buys you one more year before MOC and recertification...WHOOHOO!

Pathguy11

http://www.abpath.org/BookletofInformation.pdf
Page 5, numbers 2 and 3:

"Candidates already certified in AP must have an additional 24 months of full-time
training in CP including 18 months of structured training in CP. The remaining 6 months
are flexible but must be in one or more areas of CP."

"Candidates already certified in CP must have an additional 24 months of full-time
training in AP including 18 months of structured training in AP. The remaining 6 months
are flexible but must be in one or more areas of AP. The autopsy requirements must be
met as described under Combined AP/CP Certification."

I signed up for the AP-only examination last year. I am now certified in AP per the ABP website and the nice certificate that I received in the mail last year. Its doable, but you need 5 total years of training. I am now the 4th person in our residency program to have done this.

 

[sirenomelia]

Is there no longer an option for an AP/CP resident to pay to drop one or the other, say if they pass AP but can't pass CP and don't care to keep trying? I thought someone had told me this was possible in the past.

If you first apply to certify in AP/CP but then pass only one portion of the exam, you can inform the ABP that you wish to change your board application to be certified in only the one you pass. For some reason to hit the back space button three times on the certificate to remove the CP from the AP/CP or vice versa this costs $1,000. I personally never entertained doing this but the mere fact they get away with this practice demonstrates how corrupt these people are.

 

[KCShaw]

I would merely re-iterate that some fellowships (non-boarded, such as surg path) aren't really fellowships but junior faculty positions which may require board certification. Point being, before you lock yourself into a decision, either know where you're going for fellowship and what they prefer/require, or realize it may modestly limit your fellowship opportunities. -Most- of the time I doubt it would be an issue.

Otherwise I think it's personal preference. Not everyone needs combined AP/CP certification in the first place. Some people want to get it all over with, or feel they're as well prepared as they're likely to be at the completion of general residency. Others are convinced a year of X or Y is going to help their chances of passing one part or the other; maybe it will, maybe it won't -- depends on you, how your fellowship works, and whether you have to split study time -anyway- between subspecialty and whichever primary you skipped rather than splitting time between AP/CP study.

 

[lipomas]

I have no idea why anyone would voluntarily split up these exams.

1) More money (not a trivial amount)
2) A second trip to Tampa (+ airfare, hotel rooms, food)
3) Essentially continuous studying over an additional year.

The rationale for splitting them up is what? That it is "easier" to study for one at a time? No it isn't. Study for both at once, after a while it almost becomes kind of a break to stop studying CP and focus on AP for awhile. I know people who have split up the exams intentionally (i.e., not by failing one of the parts) and they don't really have any better chance of passing both.

This is one of the worst ideas ever.

 

[sohsie]

It's worth I to take both at the same time even if you only study and prepare for one. $400 is definitely worth the possibility of saving yourself a second trip to Tampa and another year of studying

 

[Ruination]

This is one of the worst ideas ever.

Opinions are like @ssholes. Everyone's got one.

 

[MirkoCrocop]

It's worth I to take both at the same time even if you only study and prepare for one. $400 is definitely worth the possibility of saving yourself a second trip to Tampa and another year of studying

Having signed up for both, the idea of just having to study for one is starting to grow on me.

 

[sirenomelia]

I have no idea why anyone would voluntarily split up these exams.

1) More money (not a trivial amount)
2) A second trip to Tampa (+ airfare, hotel rooms, food)
3) Essentially continuous studying over an additional year.

The rationale for splitting them up is what? That it is "easier" to study for one at a time? No it isn't. Study for both at once, after a while it almost becomes kind of a break to stop studying CP and focus on AP for awhile. I know people who have split up the exams intentionally (i.e., not by failing one of the parts) and they don't really have any better chance of passing both.

This is one of the worst ideas ever.

I know several people that sat for both and failed one or both. I know NO ONE who split them and went 0/1. Alot of people I talked to who combined were absolutely fried by the middle of the second day and stopped trying. Getting frustrated studying for both could drop your chances of passing one or the other. Some jobs also expect (or say so) they only want first time passers so there is a risk to failing one. I interviewed before i finished boards and a couple times I was asked whether i had taken them yet or if i didnt pass.

 

[lipomas]

OK, but how many people do you actually know who split them on purpose?

I don't know guys, seems to me like the options you are presenting are,

1) Take both at the same time and worry about failing one of them in which case you would have to go back and take the other half.
2) Take them separately in which case you have to go back and take the other half.

In both cases you will be out the extra money and time. The only difference between these two situations is that if you are a good resident and you study, you are more likely to pass both than to fail one of them thus obviating the need to go back. That, and the personal shame of failing part of the boards (which no one outside of your program who won't employ you in the future won't find out about anyway).

I mean seriously, one of the main arguments is that you will "feel fried" after half the test and give up during the second part? Seriously?

I am not going to understand this if you keep putting forward these weak benefits and theoretical but not realistic possibilities (like giving up or having a harder time studying because there is more material). If you are operating from the assumption that splitting up the boards necessarily means that your chances of passing are higher, I think you might be operating on a mistaken assumption. I would love to know the actual board statistics on this.

 

[sirenomelia]

Most people I know took both and passed both together. I know maybe a dozen people who took both and failed one or both, and I know about 7-8 people who split and passed both- one at a time. It has nothing to do with being a "good resident". My AP training was non-existent. It was 12 hrs/day grossing, no double scoping and self-learning from books and CTTR. It was better for me to split it- everyone is different.

 

[deleted314957]

I think most people who have been around would encourage you to take ( and pass) both of them together at your earliest possible chance.