APMLE vs. USMLE

[1stfootforward]

Hey everyone,

I am new to this forum and I am currently looking into podiatry. Researching schools and reading through these threads I've discovered that podiatry stats are significantly lower than MD/DO. According to this link: (http://www.aacpm.org/html/careerzone...ng Class.pdf and View attachment Podiatry_Score_Ranges - Copy (1).xls, some pod schools are accepting student with 18 sometimes even 15 mcats, not to mention lower gpas (even the top Caribbean MD schools: Ross, AUC, SGU and SABA would not touch applicants with these stats)

So my question is how much does the mcat ACTUALLY predict success with the APMLE as oppose to the USMLE? There are obviously not many people who could answer this based on experience but perhaps you had some insight. Is mcat for pod school just a way of filtering out applicants since most have low gpa's anyways? I understand that both are extremely difficult exams and pod schools is not any easier than an MD program. Some ppl on this forum are angered that students with sub-par mcat and gpa get admitted so that schools can collect money. I have two issues with this,

1. Why would a school want people to fail and not collect tuition for the later years, wouldn't that mean they are losing money. From a business sense a school would want to graduate every student they admit (maximize profits for all 4 years and have bragging rights about have awesome their student are!).

2. The numbers in terms of board pass rates and mcat ranges do not add up. As of last year in 2011 84% of test takers passed part 1 of the APMLE, and two years before that in 2009 when those students were "admitted" the mcat ranges were about the same for all schools (avg 21-22 for all schools; http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/MatrStats/Matriculant_MCAT.pdf). I am also aware that the stats have only gone up and thats not saying much, so in the beginning years you could get in with a much lower gpa and mcat (and those students are probably finishing their residencies by now) So the idea that all the other people saying anyone with sub-par mcat is going to fail is technically wrong based on statistics alone.

My concern is based on the fact that I do not know much about podiatry and I am simply looking into it but I am very interested. I also have not taken the mcat yet but I've done my research about this field before starting this thread.

How much does the mcat ACTUALLY predict success on the APMLE? I know why an MD program in thre U.S or top Carib schools would never admit a student with 18 mcat no matter how good the rest of their application was; because of the USMLE and any admissions adviser would tell you the same. I am also aware that pod schools is just as difficult and strenuous as MD/DO but the APMLE is very different than the USMLE based on the type of questions asked Any answers or opinions would be much appreciated by anyone in the field from pre-pods and pod students to residents and practicing DPM's.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.

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[arez10]

Just took part 1 on Wednesday. Don't know if I passed yet, but just based on the format of the APMLE versus the MCAT, I would say the MCAT in no way shape or form predicts pass rates for the APMLE. That correlation has been demonstrated more with the USMLE, which is set up completely differently. The MCAT is pretty much a reading comprehension test accompanied with basic knowledge of your pre-med courses. Time is a big factor with the MCAT. You also have to do lots of practice tests for the MCAT just to get accustomed to the reading passes and how they're going to ask you questions.

The APMLE, on the other hand, is similar in format to any multiple choice exam you'll see in podiatry school. Mostly first order questions. Some second order questions and longer clinical-type questions (ex: Patient presents with these signs and symptoms. What would you expect to see on an x ray with this knowledge?). The USMLE is MOSTLY like the type of question I just described, so you have to pick out more things in the question to come up with an answer.

So to summarize...the APMLE is more straight forward than the USMLE AND the MCAT. Also as I mentioned, time is more of a factor with the MCAT and probably the USMLE as well. You have PLENTY of time to answer the questions for the APMLE so time isn't a factor and you also don't really need to do too many practice questions to pass (not that they really release any ) Hope this made some sense!

 

[AMDG83]

What's the attrition rate like in pod school?

 

[1stfootforward]

Thanks for the replies. I really wanted to get to hear from real pod students about this and not a bunch of pissed off pre-pods. Pod admission stats have always been historically lower than MD/DO (even top four Caribbean). The majority of these folks with 2.9-3.3 gpas and 18-23 MCAT scores who entered pod school in the past must be doing alright and although the attrition rate is higher, I believe the folks that make up those stats continued using the same study methods they had in undergrad (aka cramming) or thought it might be easier since they got in with lower stats.

The student with >3.7 cgpa or sgpa and 30+ MCAT is a rare breed in pod school and it is hard to believe that ONLY this type of student will survive; (schools would graduate only a few students every year!). If there were more of these students the average stats would be naturally higher agree?

So I would like to ask; are there any podiatry students out there that had or know someone that had these "sub-par" stats and are doing just fine? If so, could you please explain why you are succeeding.

 

[SuperFeisty]

Pod students are not necessarily underachieving students. For a lot, they just can't get through the MCAT. Some people just can't score high. Unfortunately, this often gets you passed up in med school. Others had 1-2 bad years of college where they hadn't had time to adjust to that sort of life. Thus, they are also often passed up. Also, a lot of people realize how bright the field of podiatry is and are lured in. I know that I instantly ruled out pharm, grad school, and optometry once I shadowed a pod. It doesn't matter what you were in college, instead your success depends on what you do in school.

 

[rushrhees]

You also have to figure not all GPA's are equal, some schools are notorious for grade inflation, while others make it their business to make sure few get A's (I have a few courses at Loyola where in a class of almost 30 it was something like 3 or 4 would get an A, 6 or 7 a B and so on, would not matter if the whole class got 100). The other thing to consider is maturation, people can change a lot in a few years and get their priorities in order. Also getting older you get a lot smarter. I look back on some of my college work and it is so easy in retrospect.

Overall you do not need to be a rocket scientist to do well in POD school, they take plenty of people with under a 3.3 and most still seem to graduate. If you had to have a 3.7 in college with stellar MCAT, there would be a massive shortage of podiatrists.

 

[ckjets]

125 started at Temple, 107 now, but the class of 2014 have inherited these [edit: many of] these 18 defectors. Some student still cheat at this point in grad school, some hide in the clinic back rooms to not see patients. So clearly, there are many not fit in my opinion to even feel a patient's pulses. And unfortunately those guys are still around, they are graduating a year late, but are still graduating. I think Temple could do a better job with tightening their admission standards and stop filling whatever spots left they have with lazy cheaters. It is not financially viable for any school to leave spots unfilled, so yes, they do take anybody and keep giving them 2nd and 3rd chances as long as they get $38,000 a year.