App or website to optimize sleep schedule for shift work?

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surely

surely

MD Class of 2018
Verified Member
10+ Year Member
Has anyone come across an app or a website that will schedule optimal sleeping periods for you after you enter in your work/lecture schedule? By "optimal," I mean sleeping periods that last the right number of hours while also providing the most gradual transitions when going from day shifts to night shifts.

I just did this manually on paper, given my rotation schedule for the next month, and it was tedious to do by hand. I've done a bit of poking around on Google without any luck, so I thought I'd poll the HiveMind. Thanks!
 
We use shiftadmin and you can utilize circadian rhythm optimizations. Tangier I believe let's you do the same as well as most major scheduling software vendors. There are some open source products but they all have a sig higher learning curve and are not full featured or easy to implement.
 
Thanks! Just to clarify, it sounds like what you're describing is software that creates a a circadianly-optimized shift schedule for a group, but I'm a medical student - I'm not in a position to create my own shift schedule, nor will I be for a few more years. I'm looking for something that I can plug my pre-defined work and lecture schedule into and have it spit out a sleeping schedule for me to follow. Does that make some sense?
 
I'm not aware of there being such a thing. Especially given everyone's optimum sleep is different.

To quote the old surgical adage, " Eat when you can, sleep when you can, and don't F#$% with the pancreas."
 
surely said:
Thanks! Just to clarify, it sounds like what you're describing is software that creates a a circadianly-optimized shift schedule for a group, but I'm a medical student - I'm not in a position to create my own shift schedule, nor will I be for a few more years. I'm looking for something that I can plug my pre-defined work and lecture schedule into and have it spit out a sleeping schedule for me to follow. Does that make some sense?
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It really shouldn't be that complicated in med school. Don't overthink it, or oversleep it for that matter. If your having problems now, wait until residency. Unless they carve out more protected nap time for residents like they've been doing last few years.
 
seebelcherrun said:
I'm not aware of there being such a thing. Especially given everyone's optimum sleep is different.

To quote the old surgical adage, " Eat when you can, sleep when you can, and don't F#$% with the pancreas."
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Never run when you can walk.
Never walk when you can stand.
Never stand when you can sit.
Never sit when you can lay down.
Never lay down when you can sleep.

-attributed to Winston Churchill
 
Go to sleep at the same time every night, perhaps midnight. You can do that whether you're working a day or evening shift. Then, when you work a night shift, go to bed as soon as you get home from your shift and sleep as long as you can. Problem solved, no software required.
 
The White Coat Investor said:
Go to sleep at the same time every night, perhaps midnight. You can do that whether you're working a day or evening shift. Then, when you work a night shift, go to bed as soon as you get home from your shift and sleep as long as you can. Problem solved, no software required.
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Interesting, I didn't realize that's how the pros do it.

If I'm asleep by 11pm every night, and I have a 10p-6a night shift, I suppose I can get by with a pre-shift nap and not feel like I've been awake for 24+ hours straight by the end of it... The real crunch will be the times when I have a 10p-6a shift followed by conference from 7a-12p.

I'll experiment and see what works best for me/how well I adjust.

Thanks, everyone.
 
Oh, were you trying to get around feeling like crap while at work all night or after staying up all night? I don't know of any way to do that. I didn't say any of this felt good, I'm just saying this is what people do.

I highly recommend you experiment with pre-shift naps. Wish they worked for me. If they did maybe I'd still be working overnights.
 
My "night shifts" are 8p-6a.

I nap from 3p-6p prior to the nightshift.

I then sleep as soon as I get home for 6/7 hours, generally awake before one.

During the shift, I take 20mg melatonin.

I am status-post nightshift today. I awoke before my alarm, and I don't feel awful. I don't want to go kayaking or anything, but an afternoon of video games and baseball-watching is okay by me.
 
The White Coat Investor said:
Oh, were you trying to get around feeling like crap while at work all night or after staying up all night? I don't know of any way to do that.
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Ha! For the time being, I'm mostly trying to come across as at least half a notch above terminally stupid to my residents and faculty while I do sub-internships this summer, with personal comfort a distant second. Figured being somewhat well-rested might help my performance. Oh well, message received, will stop overthinking it.
 
The White Coat Investor said:
Seriously, try pre-sleeping. It does work for some. Just didn't for me except my intern year when our night shift started at midnight.
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I'm militant about my sleep and definitely do the pre-shift nap for night shifts, and my nap is usually 2 hours long. Sometimes I can't fall asleep but even just closing my eyes for a couple hours helps. I've conveyed to my family the need for this, so I get a lot of cooperation about it.
 
Angry Birds said:
I'm militant about my sleep and definitely do the pre-shift nap for night shifts, and my nap is usually 2 hours long. Sometimes I can't fall asleep but even just closing my eyes for a couple hours helps. I've conveyed to my family the need for this, so I get a lot of cooperation about it.
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Underlined, for the win. Even if I just close my eyes and I don't fall full asleep - I can tell the difference. It sounds crazy to say it, but I get that familiar sensation of "jaw relaxes, saliva pools" and I can tell that I've "slept".
 
RustedFox said:
Underlined, for the win. Even if I just close my eyes and I don't fall full asleep - I can tell the difference. It sounds crazy to say it, but I get that familiar sensation of "jaw relaxes, saliva pools" and I can tell that I've "slept".
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I shoot for 3-4 hours, 4 is ideal (more than that might be ideal but 4 is hard enough to try for) and a healthy slug of melatonin.
 
TooMuchResearch said:
I shoot for 3-4 hours, 4 is ideal (more than that might be ideal but 4 is hard enough to try for) and a healthy slug of melatonin.
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I don't mess with Melatonin right before a shift, i.e. before a nap. I feel like it makes me drowsy, placebo or not. I take Melatonin only before a full night's sleep.

But yeah, sometimes I push my nap to 3 hours, which is probably my ideal.
 
So, while it certainly isn't peer reviewed or anything... closing your eyes for even 20 minutes does help mental sharpness in sleep deprivation. Well, if you believe the Mythbuster guys.

Several years ago, the Mythbuster guys looked at sleep schedules for the Deadliest Catch guys (yay Discovery Channel!), wondering if a 20 minute eyes-closed-might-be-asleep-might-not would make an actual difference in mental sharpness and some physical challenges. And it did. If I remember right, they sleep deprived the supplemental Mythbuster crew, then made them not take "naps," vs taking "naps," kept them up for residency-length shifts, cough, I mean, crab hauling strings, and made them do math problems and throw the hook, or something silly like that. Several of them said that they didn't sleep, but did rest with their eyes closed. And lo and behold, there was a difference. I don't think there were any p-values involved, but it made an impact on me. Thus, I do try to pre-doze, although it usually isn't more than a doze with eyes closed.
 
Angry Birds said:
I don't mess with Melatonin right before a shift, i.e. before a nap. I feel like it makes me drowsy, placebo or not. I take Melatonin only before a full night's sleep.

But yeah, sometimes I push my nap to 3 hours, which is probably my ideal.
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I've said this before, but it bears repeating - melatonin is not to be used during the daytime hours. When that ball of hydrogen is in the sky, its no good to you.
 
surely said:
Has anyone come across an app or a website that will schedule optimal sleeping periods for you after you enter in your work/lecture schedule? By "optimal," I mean sleeping periods that last the right number of hours while also providing the most gradual transitions when going from day shifts to night shifts.

I just did this manually on paper, given my rotation schedule for the next month, and it was tedious to do by hand. I've done a bit of poking around on Google without any luck, so I thought I'd poll the HiveMind. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Here's your "app" free of charge:

1) Work as little as possible, 2) sleep as much as you can whenever you can, and most importantly 3) don't be an Emergency Physician.

If you can do 3 of those 3, you'll always feel well rested.

If you can achieve 2 of the 3, you'll feel exhausted part of the time, but feel good and well rested part of the time.

If you are able to do only 0-1 of those things, you're going to feel exhausted and miserable, most of the time.

#BirdstrikeApp


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Agree with all the above recommendations, but would add:
- 15-20 minute power naps can be preceded by caffeine to combine their benefits. This might help in the (unfortunate) tight hour you have between your shift (grab some coffee a you leave) and conference. Find a quiet, dark place to lay down, use sound-isolating headphones and an eye mask, set a few alarms. Consider using a nap or sleep-tracking app for your alarm, as they can use either sound or your motion as a surrogate for your sleep depth and try to time your waking to be the least disruptive (within a preset window, e.g. 10 minutes).

- Try to take your daytime nap/sleeps in 90-minute intervals, as this is approximately the length of a typical REM cycle and will be the most restorative sleep. I aim for 4.5, 6, 7.5, or 9 hours between shifts.

- The typical human circadian rhythm is a little longer than 24 hours, so it's usually easier for people to extend their day a little longer than shorten it. i.e. It's usually easier to pre-sleep with some moderate length nap (as others have mentioned) before a night shift, rather than wake up and go right back to sleep really early to try to get 9 hours before your night shift.

- Reduce blue light exposure when you're going to need to sleep. I.e. blue-blocking glasses if you wear them, dark sunglasses or blue-blocking glasses (google them) in the morning after your night shift, etc.

- Some really good resources out there, including David Terca's 6-minute lecture here: 20 in 6 - 2015 Winners

Good luck!
 
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