Applicant Specific Chances at St. Louis University SOM (SLUMD)

[Longidude]

Hi all,

Sorry ahead of time to post this kind of a question. I know it is nuanced, but I have searched through the posts, looked at AMCAS stats and SLU's self reported stats but am still a bit unsure about my chances. Looking to see if anyone may have insight or experience with SLU that can be applied to my situation.

UcGPA: 3.6 (With upward trend)
UsGPA: 3.2-3.3 🙁 -> Have not graduated yet so still flexibility but most likely in this range

1.5 years research experience
250+ Shadowing hours (Family Prac, Pathology, Ortho Sports Surgery) (still adding to these regularly. Are shadowing hours powerful in the app process?)

I have NOT taken MCAT yet. I completely understand that my MCAT is an integral component and a full answer cannot be given without it. But with most AMCAS data that I have seen published focusing on cGPA my primary question here is does my sGPA already put me out of contention? Some threads seem to say that my sGPA is a nail in the coffin at a lot of schools. I know SLU has a 3.8sGPA Average...

Also, I am pursuing completing a one year masters in bio-medicine for what otherwise would have been a gap year next year. Will my chances improve significantly if I am successful in that program (a quality post-grad GPA?)

AS A SIDE NOTE: I do recognize that my GPA is not good (my science GPA is bad) for most MD schools. I am not delusional about that. But, I have heard that SLU has a reasonably holistic analyses in their apps. I grew up for a time in the Lou and have strong family connections there. This is my reason for looking to SLU, specifically. It is the dream school, but of course I am looking to apply at many other schools for which I may have a reasonable shot...

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I appreciate your insight!

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[Goro]

Come back when you have your MCAT score, and then we can comment.

Aceing an SMP does help and there are schools that reward reinvention. I don't know if SLU is one of them

 

[Longidude]

Sounds good. I take MCAT here in a couple months, then I will update the post.

Thank you for your insight, Goro!

 

[candbgirl]

Are those your only ECs? SLU, like all Jesuit schools, are very service oriented. 250 hours of shadowing is overkill. 50 would have been enough. Where is your clinical experience? Where is your non clinical Experience? What have you done to prove to ADCOMS that you want to work with the sick/injured for the next 30+ years? What have you done to show your altruism? Medicine is a service profession and from what you’ve shared you haven’t even scratched the surface.
When are you applying? With a very low sGPA and an average cGPA you have to have something that makes your application stand out or at least be competitive. Start working on these issues and let us know when you have a MCAT score. Lots of people will be glad to help you.

 

[Longidude]

Hi Candbgirl,

Thanks for your reply. You're right, I should have been more clear on what of that shadowing was clinical experience.

I have about 100 hours of clinical experience (taking patient histories, vitals, requesting labs, etc.) at a family practice clinic. Of course, that experience was non-paid ("volunteer"). I recognize, though that is different than non-clinical volunteer.

I think I have around 50 hours of non-clinical volunteering experience. My interpretation is that is pretty low. I spend most all of my free time shadowing, so that has taken some time away from what I have available to do more non-clinical volunteering.

One thing that I have been told, that I am not quite sure is true: My current primary career interest is in forensic and anatomic pathology (autopsy). Many of my shadowing hours are in this specialty, and I am consistently continuing to shadow this specialty every week. I have been told that this may help to the extent that is shows a continued interest with reasonable level of experience.

My interpretation is that it is not going to make up for other shortcomings in my app, notably my sGPA and below average non-clinical hours. Any thoughts on the degree to which persistent interest and shadowing can round out an app?

 

[SLU Student]

Chances aren't great right now. Both of your GPAs are below average, and your EC's aren't stellar either.

You need to stop shadowing, and focus more on clinical/non-clinical volunteering. Showing "continued interest" through shadowing means nothing. You may think you're set on a specific field, but adcoms know that it's way too early for that. Showing interest in primary care at primary care oriented schools is a good thing, but your desired field and SLU's mission have nothing to do with that.

Also, unfortunately, ties to Saint Louis means very little. SLU is a private medical school, and it treats applicants from all regions equally.

You need to shift your focus to volunteering, and study hard for the MCAT. If you're URM, that will help a bunch. One of the reasons SLU is on probation right now is because of their lack of diversity.

 

[Longidude]

Thank you for your response. That makes a lot of sense and it gives me some direction to focus on, with MCAT and Non Shadowing Volunteer Hours.

and your EC's aren't stellar either

What would a "Great" set of ECs look like? I have a semester left of undergrad, and the master's is at my home institution. That gives me time to add to research and to focus in more on volunteer hours.

If I have, then, 3 years of research and closer to what I now have in shadowing in volunteer hours (aim for 200+) is that getting closer to a notable application?

Is there another piece to the puzzle that I am overlooking, something that makes a great set of ECs?

I am not an URM. I wonder if that may play against me given their probation situation. My guess is that if they are looking to admit lower than average GPAs they are not hyped to do so for non URM applicants. Technically, I am first generation haha. I know that is in the wording of the probation. But, I have a pretty strong feeling that a Below Average White Applicant, albe-him first generation is not high on the wish list this year! 😉

 

[Lawpy]

Just a heads up, I wouldn't place your hopes into any particular school. The application process can be long and unpredictable, so there's a good chance of being heartbroken when your top choice rejects you without interview (or worse, rejecting you post-interview). This is why it's important to go into the process with an open mind and without any expectations, as well as being satisfied with what you have.

 

[Longidude]

Thank you. This is some great advice!

Admittedly, it is a difficult line of thinking. But at the end of the day, the goal is getting into medical school, and if I can squeeze into any I'd be ecstatic.

 

[krukshanks]

Thank you for your response. That makes a lot of sense and it gives me some direction to focus on, with MCAT and Non Shadowing Volunteer Hours.



What would a "Great" set of ECs look like? I have a semester left of undergrad, and the master's is at my home institution. That gives me time to add to research and to focus in more on volunteer hours.

If I have, then, 3 years of research and closer to what I now have in shadowing in volunteer hours (aim for 200+) is that getting closer to a notable application?

Is there another piece to the puzzle that I am overlooking, something that makes a great set of ECs?

I am not an URM. I wonder if that may play against me given their probation situation. My guess is that if they are looking to admit lower than average GPAs they are not hyped to do so for non URM applicants. Technically, I am first generation haha. I know that is in the wording of the probation. But, I have a pretty strong feeling that a Below Average White Applicant, albe-him first generation is not high on the wish list this year! 😉

You definitely need a lot of volunteer hours for SLU (which you don't have for now). 250+ hours of shadowing is quite unnecessary in my opinion: the point of shadowing for pre-med students is to make sure they know what they are going into. If you shadow in a wide range of specialties, each for 1-2 days and get up to ~70-80 hours, that should be sufficient. Shadowing itself is a very passive clinical experience, and simply adding hours to this category is not that helpful.

To have a good EC profile for med schools, esp. for service-heavy schools like SLU, you should have significant volunteer hours in both clinical and non-clinical settings. Leadership roles in other activity may be helpful too.

 

[Longidude]

Good to know, thank you. Looks like my primary shortcoming for the ECs then is in lacking volunteer hours. That's something I can get to work on!

 

[candbgirl]

STOP SHADOWING!! You have so much to do to get your application to submitted stage you really don’t have time. Nonclinical
Volunteering is where you step out of your comfort zone and do stuff for those less fortunate than you. Think homeless shelters, soup kitchens, Habitat for Humanity, counselor at camps for disabled kids etc.. Things that show your altruistic side. You need 150-200 hours of this. You also need the same amount of clinical work. Your experiences in autopsy are interesting but you certainly are not interacting with patients. You have to do that. How do you even know you can deal with the sick and injured? Research isn’t really important unless you are interested in a PhD. So there is another place that can free up some time. Oh and Clinical
Experience can be paid. Get a job at a hospital where you interact with patients and their families. Clinical
Doesn’t have to be volunteer.

Why are you enrolling in a Masters program? MD schools don’t count them in their evaluations. It is assumed students will do great and therefore lots of grade inflation is seen. DO schools do consider grad programs.

I know you are directing all of your efforts towards SLU. That’s a really bad idea and will open you up to major heartache and disappointment. Be realistic. Consider DO schools too.

When are you applying? If it is next June(2018) you will come up short because of your ECs and GPAs. You only want to apply once with the very best application possible. So take your time and do it right. Some people apply and enter FUTURE activities-like I plan to work at UofX hospital two hours a week for the next 10 months. I’ve heard ADCOMS kind of ignore that because we all know life happens and you might not get the volunteering done. So be careful and do it right the first time.

 

[Longidude]

STOP SHADOWING!! You have so much to do to get your application to submitted stage you really don’t have time. Nonclinical
Volunteering is where you step out of your comfort zone and do stuff for those less fortunate than you. Think homeless shelters, soup kitchens, Habitat for Humanity, counselor at camps for disabled kids etc.. Things that show your altruistic side. You need 150-200 hours of this. You also need the same amount of clinical work. Your experiences in autopsy are interesting but you certainly are not interacting with patients. You have to do that. How do you even know you can deal with the sick and injured? Research isn’t really important unless you are interested in a PhD. So there is another place that can free up some time. Oh and Clinical
Experience can be paid. Get a job at a hospital where you interact with patients and their families. Clinical
Doesn’t have to be volunteer.

Why are you enrolling in a Masters program? MD schools don’t count them in their evaluations. It is assumed students will do great and therefore lots of grade inflation is seen. DO schools do consider grad programs.

I know you are directing all of your efforts towards SLU. That’s a really bad idea and will open you up to major heartache and disappointment. Be realistic. Consider DO schools too.

When are you applying? If it is next June(2018) you will come up short because of your ECs and GPAs. You only want to apply once with the very best application possible. So take your time and do it right. Some people apply and enter FUTURE activities-like I plan to work at UofX hospital two hours a week for the next 10 months. I’ve heard ADCOMS kind of ignore that because we all know life happens and you might not get the volunteering done. So be careful and do it right the first time.

Hmm. Lot of good and interesting points here. To begin, I am not actually devoting 100% to SLU. If I had a top choice, it would be SLU, but I have compiled a list of 20+ others that are lower in average GPA, etc. Given that, my reasoning here is that if you start looking at what it might take for your top school, the one that would require the best application you can possibly make, and shoot for that I think that sets you up to reach a better outcome than if you aim for just the lower tier schools you are looking at and end up with not a good enough app for any schools at all.

As Lawper pointed out, I do realize that once I send out apps it will be a long and unpredictable process. My key goal here is to give myself the best shot everywhere, doing that by stretching myself to see if I can’t get a far off chance at a school that is at the limits of my reach. Very possibly, it may turn out to be beyond my reach.

Understood on the shadowing side. Hearing that sentiment in a lot of responses. So far I do have 100 hours of clinical experience directly interacting with patients (taking vitals, histories, requesting labs, etc.) in family practice. Sounds like a little more of that will be needed. Thank you for the point that it does not need to be volunteer I did not know that.

 

[Longidude]

Why are you enrolling in a Masters program? MD schools don’t count them in their evaluations. It is assumed students will do great and therefore lots of grade inflation is seen.

Hmm. I have never heard this regarding masters programs at MD schools. In fact, i’ve been told by pre health advisors the opposite is true. I will have to look more into this.

One alternate thought I have considered is taking the extra year to take upper division biomedical science courses. Through looking at it, if I can continue my current upward trend in that area for an additional 20-25 credits over a year I could likely bring my sGPA up to 3.4-3.5 range and my cGPA up to around 3.7.

Would that be preferable over a masters track? What about being a 5 year undergrad, then?

Thanks again.

 

[candbgirl]

Extending graduation seems to be no problem with ADCOMS. This will
also allow for financial aid if you receive it. Very often on here it is suggested that students put off graduation so they can take upper division science courses. If you have to graduate you can take upper division science at any university(or CC)as a DYI post bacc.

I’m glad you have developed a list with additional schools. Over the months you’ll refine it many times. And when you get your MCAT let us know and people will help you with a good and focused list.

 

[Longidude]

Extending graduation seems to be no problem with ADCOMS. This will
also allow for financial aid if you receive it. Very often on here it is suggested that students put off graduation so they can take upper division science courses. If you have to graduate you can take upper division science at any university(or CC)as a DYI post bacc.

Very good to know! I will start looking into that more thoroughly. I imagine that raising the cGPA to 3.7 and sGPA to around 3.4-3.5 could do a lot in the way of increasing my chances across the board.

I’m glad you have developed a list with additional schools. Over the months you’ll refine it many times. And when you get your MCAT let us know and people will help you with a good and focused list.

Absolutely, I know MCAT is going to play a strong role in this as well. I will update that info here in a few months. Thank you!

 

[Longidude]

Overall, I just wanted to send out a big thank you to all of you who took the time to read this and to respond so far!

I've received a lot of great advice and insight. I now know some of the key things I need to focus on:
1) Finishing out my volunteer hours and my clinical hours;
2) Putting out as solid an MCAT as I can;
3) Considering additional coursework to improve the low sGPA that is holding me back the most at this point.

Thank you to everyone who pitched in and gave their advice! I sincerely appreciate it!

 

[•Syzygy•]

Just wanted to comment that SMPs ( special masters programs) and Biomedical Science Masters will definitely help. The comment about masters programs being inflated and not factored into medical admissions is only related to programs like public heath and business administration ie not medical related. That kind of graduate program is known to be “inflated” though I will say that is definitely not at all true everywhere......but that is beside the point

 

[Longidude]

Thanks for the advice. That reflects more of what I have heard, to this point. Definitely gives me something to consider.