Applied Clinical Research - PsyD or PhD?

[HelpBetter]

Hi there! I am in that ****ty part of the cycle where you are waiting and wondering and pondering and fretting and mulling and more verbs that imply a certain degree of anxiety along with needful introspection to make an important decision.

I'm hoping to get some thoughts from current students or folks already in the field. What I hope to do in my career is both clinical work and applied clinical research. I want to help patients dealing with serious mental illness (schizophrenia & other disorders presenting psychotic features), but also figure out how to help them better. That is, work on intervention studies trying out new techniques, including possibly new medications. I am wondering which would be the better program for this -- a PsyD which would provide a lot of clinical training and some research experience in an applied setting as long as I seek it out, or a PhD which would be much more focused on academic research training.

To be clear, I am not interested in making my career focus research. Don't want to struggle for tenure track and all of that. I want to primarily work with patients, and then also stay involved in research relevant to my patient population.

For the sake of new information, let's please skip over the fact that PsyD's tend to be outrageously expensive programs while PhD's are fully funded. I got that part. Tell me about the best way to get the training to accomplish what I want.

Thank you!

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[WisNeuro]

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/doctoral-applicants-read-first-helpful-threads.714255/

 

[HelpBetter]

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/doctoral-applicants-read-first-helpful-threads.714255/

A lot of these links are dead, outdated, or one million pages long. Is no one willing to engage in this topic again?

 

[wtfook]

This is a great read: http://mitch.web.unc.edu/files/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf

It was updated this year and is specifically directed at people interested in going into psychology. I honestly wish I'd read this when I was considering graduate school in psychology.

In addition to this, I would say that the general consensus I've seen in this forum is that the PsyD/PhD research vs. practice dichotomy is a myth. A truly competitive and quality PsyD program will have you do research an the level of research can be equivalent to a PhD program. Vice versa, some PhD programs are more geared toward training clinicians than researchers or future jr. professors. For example, when I interviewed at St. Johns's clinical psychology program, many of the current students told me that the program is more clinically geared. They still do research and are still required to write a dissertation, as that is part of the training to be a quality practitioner, but many graduates eventually go on to do clinical work rather than become faculty members. It's not a hard and fast rule but it was the evaluation given to me by current students.

So all that to say, both PsyD and PhD programs will get you to where you need to go. It's more about the fit you feel with the program, the quality of the training they provide, and how much money you want to spend on your education.

 

[Istilldontknow]

I would look at the program over the type of degree (assuming it's from an accredited school). If you're interested in schizophrenia research, you should check out Rutgers.

 

[WisNeuro]

A lot of these links are dead, outdated, or one million pages long. Is no one willing to engage in this topic again?

The basic ones that would answer many of your misconceptions are still active, and timely.

 

[psych.meout]

The basic ones that would answer many of your misconceptions are still active, and timely.

But that would require effort and discerning reading comprehension.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Hi there! I am in that ****ty part of the cycle where you are waiting and wondering and pondering and fretting and mulling and more verbs that imply a certain degree of anxiety along with needful introspection to make an important decision.

I'm hoping to get some thoughts from current students or folks already in the field. What I hope to do in my career is both clinical work and applied clinical research. I want to help patients dealing with serious mental illness (schizophrenia & other disorders presenting psychotic features), but also figure out how to help them better. That is, work on intervention studies trying out new techniques, including possibly new medications. I am wondering which would be the better program for this -- a PsyD which would provide a lot of clinical training and some research experience in an applied setting as long as I seek it out, or a PhD which would be much more focused on academic research training.

To be clear, I am not interested in making my career focus research. Don't want to struggle for tenure track and all of that. I want to primarily work with patients, and then also stay involved in research relevant to my patient population.

For the sake of new information, let's please skip over the fact that PsyD's tend to be outrageously expensive programs while PhD's are fully funded. I got that part. Tell me about the best way to get the training to accomplish what I want.

Thank you!

Based on what you are saying you want to be involved in: Clinical PhD with a strong research emphasis. The work you are talking about occurs at AMCs and they want people who have solid research skills and experience.

 

[HelpBetter]

But that would require effort and discerning reading comprehension.

Wow, rude! And completely without merit or provocation. I was under the impression that this forum was meant to be a helpful and supportive resource for individuals in a field that generally encourages compassion. This is not a very welcoming first exposure.

Thank you to those who have responded genuinely.

 

[deleted343839]

If you want to sustain any kind of research career, even if most of your time is spent in practice, it will be to your benefit to get strong training in clinical research. A clinical science or scientist-practitioner training program would be a good fit.

Most people who focus mainly on practice are not the same people who are leading large clinical trials (as a PI). There just isn't enough time to do it all and do it well. But it is possible, especially in an academic health center, to devote most of one's time to practice and still play important roles as a collaborator or co-investigator.

 

[psych.meout]

Wow, rude! And completely without merit or provocation. I was under the impression that this forum was meant to be a helpful and supportive resource for individuals in a field that generally encourages compassion. This is not a very welcoming first exposure.

Thank you to those who have responded genuinely.

So, because you refused to read the stickied threads or do a forum search before posting, the professionals here have to reinvent the wheel each time someone like you posts the same question(s) that has been answered numerous times over the years? These people spend a good portion of their limited free time answering questions and giving advice to prospective and current grad students. The least we can do is not waste their time by expecting them to answer the same questions over and over again before we do the minimal work involved in reading stickied threads and searching the forums to see if our questions can be answered without bothering them.

 

[wtfook]

So, because you refused to read the stickied threads or do a forum search before posting, the professionals here have to reinvent the wheel each time someone like you posts the same question(s) that has been answered numerous times over the years? These people spend a good portion of their limited free time answering questions and giving advice to prospective and current grad students. The least we can do is not waste their time by expecting them to answer the same questions over and over again before we do the minimal work involved in reading stickied threads and searching the forums to see if our questions can be answered without bothering them.

I would also like to point out that the OP opined the length of some of the resources provided in the sticky thread for new applicants. I also provided a link to a resource that is "one million pages long." However, these resources are available and lengthy because the decision to take on a 5-7 year long training program in a career that involves a great deal of thought, research, and learning should probably require a great deal of informed reading and contemplation. I myself stalked the threads on here for hours reading various insights that had already been provided. I found that after reading many of the links in the sticky'd thread, it wasn't really necessary at all for me to ask any further questions. While it is attractive to have a succinct sheet of paper that gives you your decision, the synthesis of knowledge from multiple resources is a strength many programs will want to see in applicants. It's definitely worth looking over everything, even if it looks "one million pages long," in order to make the best decision for you, @HelpBetter.

 

[HelpBetter]

I would also like to point out that the OP opined the length of some of the resources provided in the sticky thread for new applicants. I also provided a link to a resource that is "one million pages long." However, these resources are available and lengthy because the decision to take on a 5-7 year long training program in a career that involves a great deal of thought, research, and learning should probably require a great deal of informed reading and contemplation. I myself stalked the threads on here for hours reading various insights that had already been provided. I found that after reading many of the links in the sticky'd thread, it wasn't really necessary at all for me to ask any further questions. While it is attractive to have a succinct sheet of paper that gives you your decision, the synthesis of knowledge from multiple resources is a strength many programs will want to see in applicants. It's definitely worth looking over everything, even if it looks "one million pages long," in order to make the best decision for you, @HelpBetter.

Valid.