Applying ACGME FM with USMLE STEP 2 without USMLE Step 1?

[drnyit]

Will family medicine residencies accept step 2 without a Step 1 if they have a USMLE requirement? I want to apply to programs in the new york/ new jersey area. I thought FM was very DO friendly but I have been contacting a lot of programs (including lower-tier programs) and many seem to require USMLE Step 1. Step 1 is not really an option for me anymore but I can still take Step 2. Any thoughts?

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[MedicMike]

You have to take USMLE Step 1 before you can take Step 2


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[IslandStyle808]

For DO students you actually do not. I have quite a few friends who only took Step 2 CK and not step 1.

True for all students. However, for step III you need to take step I and II, which doesn't matter so much for DO students.

 

[W19]

According to SDN, most programs put a lot more weight in step1 score than step2. So why would you need to take step2 without taking step1 for FM? Will that change anything even if you got an above average step2 score? It's FM after all!

 

[Mosonik]

I'm not aware of a FM that doesn't accept COMLEX, despite the floating statistic out there that says 90-95% accept it. I'd do your research on your top programs before you spend the money and time for Step II.

 

[hallowmann]

Having a solid step 2 even without a Step 1 will definitely improve your chances at stronger/more competitive FM programs. That said, for many it might not make a difference. I agree to research your top programs and see what they prefer, even so far as contacting them and seeing if they'd advise you to take Step 2 as a DO.

I'm not aware of a FM that doesn't accept COMLEX, despite the floating statistic out there that says 90-95% accept it. I'd do your research on your top programs before you spend the money and time for Step II.

I remember seeing a couple that didn't, but they were blips.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm not aware of a FM that doesn't accept COMLEX, despite the floating statistic out there that says 90-95% accept it. I'd do your research on your top programs before you spend the money and time for Step II.

What they accept and what is competitive are entirely different.

 

[jw3600]

What they accept and what is competitive are entirely different.

The amount of times I've had to explain this is unbearable. It's like yeah I'm eligible for an nba contract because I have legs. It doesn't mean I'm competitive for one.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What they accept and what is competitive are entirely different.

I've honestly been under the impression that competitiveness for FM doesn't really relate to boards all that much. I mean maybe for some strong programs on the coasts or in california, but generally?

 

[Mad Jack]

I've honestly been under the impression that competitiveness for FM doesn't really relate to boards all that much. I mean maybe for some strong programs on the coasts or in california, but generally?

If you want to be in a desirable area, you're better off with a 205 on the USMLE than a 540 on the COMLEX. You'll probably be fine with either, but a USMLE score will go farther, in general, than a COMLEX score.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

If you want to be in a desirable area, you're better off with a 205 on the USMLE than a 540 on the COMLEX. You'll probably be fine with either, but a USMLE score will go farther, in general, than a COMLEX score.

Interesting.

 

[AlteredScale]

If you want to be in a desirable area, you're better off with a 205 on the USMLE than a 540 on the COMLEX. You'll probably be fine with either, but a USMLE score will go farther, in general, than a COMLEX score.

Very anecdotal but I am aware of IM applicants with COMLEX only scores at 600+ who did not have trouble getting interviews (and matched) to specific CA programs such as UCSF Fresno, UC Irvine, and the community hospitals affiliated with UCLA.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Very anecdotal but I am aware of IM applicants with COMLEX only scores at 600+ who did not have trouble getting interviews (and matched) to specific CA programs such as UCSF Fresno, UC Irvine, and the community hospitals affiliated with UCLA.

Sometimes I do wonder if we get our panties all bunched up over nothing. I've been told similar stories of people matching like that in a lot of fields. Heck the other day cliquesh said he even had a friend match ACGME surgery with just a COMLEX (admittedly it was a 700), and another one match university level surgery with a 230. Either some stuff isn't as bad as we make it out to be or there are just a lot of anecdotes known by lots of people.

 

[jw3600]

Very anecdotal but I am aware of IM applicants with COMLEX only scores at 600+ who did not have trouble getting interviews (and matched) to specific CA programs such as UCSF Fresno, UC Irvine, and the community hospitals affiliated with UCLA.

I would love to verify those claims...

 

[AlteredScale]

I would love to verify those claims...

I'm sure you would. I speak with these people on a day to day basis.

But go ahead and email residents from UCSF Fresno and ask them then if you really think I would be dumb enough to lie about something like that..

 

[AlteredScale]

Sometimes I do wonder if we get our panties all bunched up over nothing. I've been told similar stories of people matching like that in a lot of fields. Heck the other day cliquesh said he even had a friend match ACGME surgery with just a COMLEX (admittedly it was a 700), and another one match university level surgery with a 230. Either some stuff isn't as bad as we make it out to be or there are just a lot of anecdotes known by lots of people.

There's def more to the matching story for DOs than what is seen here on SDN. A COMLEX only applicant is not going to go unmatched but they also aren't just limited to just small middle of nowhere programs so as long as all their ducks are in order (LORs, rotation grades, strong step/level 2, location, etc etc).

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Very anecdotal but I am aware of IM applicants with COMLEX only scores at 600+ who did not have trouble getting interviews (and matched) to specific CA programs such as UCSF Fresno, UC Irvine, and the community hospitals affiliated with UCLA.

...and none of those are particularly competitive programs. Good, but not competitive, which is why someone can match there with just a COMLEX.

Sometimes I do wonder if we get our panties all bunched up over nothing. I've been told similar stories of people matching like that in a lot of fields. Heck the other day cliquesh said he even had a friend match ACGME surgery with just a COMLEX (admittedly it was a 700), and another one match university level surgery with a 230. Either some stuff isn't as bad as we make it out to be or there are just a lot of anecdotes known by lots of people.

It's a mix of both. The reality is that there are a fxckton of variables that go into who gets offered interviews and who match, and there's a wide enough spectrum of competitiveness among programs that if you want to match as a DO in most fields you probably can. Furthermore, things like ACGME surgery and University level aren't of great significance - there are plenty of ****ty university programs and quality community programs.

There's def more to the matching story for DOs than what is seen here on SDN. A COMLEX only applicant is not going to go unmatched but they also aren't just limited to just small middle of nowhere programs so as long as all their ducks are in order (LORs, rotation grades, strong step/level 2, location, etc etc).

This is emphatically not true. Plenty of COMLEX - only applicants never have their applications read and are effectively limited to low-tier programs depending on geography and specialty. If you're smart you definitely can match, but lets not pretend the playing field is even remotely even. At the end of the day if you're a DO with aspirations for an ACGME residency, take the USLME.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think the main take away truth within Altered's post, is that SDN's perspective on matching is at best a distant observation, and at worst warped misunderstanding.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Furthermore, things like ACGME surgery and University level aren't of great significance

Not really in that sense no, but university programs are more difficult for DOs just on principle. Academic surgery programs (a lot of university programs fit this model) tend to be one of the last great bastions of bias. That is really the only significance, because you are right and university vs. community doesn't really mean much in terms of quality a lot of the time. Some of those community programs pump out surgeons with excellent technical abilities and are highly desirable

 

[AlteredScale]

...and none of those are particularly competitive programs. Good, but not competitive, which is why someone can match there with just a COMLEX.



It's a mix of both. The reality is that there are a fxckton of variables that go into who gets offered interviews and who match, and there's a wide enough spectrum of competitiveness among programs that if you want to match as a DO in most fields you probably can. Furthermore, things like ACGME surgery and University level aren't of great significance - there are plenty of ****ty university programs and quality community programs.



This is emphatically not true. Plenty of COMLEX - only applicants never have their applications read and are effectively limited to low-tier programs depending on geography and specialty. If you're smart you definitely can match, but lets not pretend the playing field is even remotely even. At the end of the day if you're a DO with aspirations for an ACGME residency, take the USLME.

Those programs are not middle of no where programs. Sure they aren't great programs but I'm trying to get rid of this idea that a comlex only applicant who wants to do ACGME IM will be stuck in arkansas or South Dakota. There are hundreds if not thousands of ACGME (yes not competitive) that accept COMLEX only applicants.

We are just going in circles. A statement is made that no USMLE means no CA match. I state that's not the case. The rebuttal is it's a sucky match and we are back to square one.


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[jw3600]

I'm sure you would. I speak with these people on a day to day basis.

But go ahead and email residents from UCSF Fresno and ask them then if you really think I would be dumb enough to lie about something like that..

Wait. Which UCLA program?

 

[SLC]

Those programs are not middle of no where programs. Sure they aren't great programs but I'm trying to get rid of this idea that a comlex only applicant who wants to do ACGME IM will be stuck in arkansas or South Dakota. There are hundreds if not thousands of ACGME (yes not competitive) that accept COMLEX only applicants.

We are just going in circles. A statement is made that no USMLE means no CA match. I state that's not the case. The rebuttal is it's a sucky match and we are back to square one.


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Glad to see you realizing how things work Altered.

 

[SLC]

Wait. Which UCLA program?

Harbor is one I'm aware of through personal acquaintances.

 

[hallowmann]

Harbor is one I'm aware of through personal acquaintances.

That's what popped into my head. There's a lot of DOs at harbor in many of their programs. I think EM is one of the few programs where you don't see them there.

 

[SLC]

That's what popped into my head. There's a lot of DOs at harbor in many of their programs. I think EM is one of the few programs where you don't see them there.

Guy in the ATSU-SOMA class of 2012 or 2013 matched EM there.