Applying EM-report Step 2 USMLE or no?

[Total Bro Doc]

Hello everyone,
So I've been unable to find an answer but was wondering what others would do in the same situation as me. Basically I didn't take USMLE step 1, but scored a 566 on COMLEX 1. Decided to take USMLE step 2 and totally bombed it with a 215. Timing was the biggest issue and totally killed me on that test. In practice i was scoring around 230-235 on NBME's and UWSA's. Waiting on COMLEX 2 but I anticipate it went a lot better than USMLE. I have 5 auditions set up. I know theres a button on whether we took USMLE and to report our USMLE ID, but would you report your USMLE step 2 score in my position? I've heard its too low and will hurt you, but I've also heard that having a score will still get you in the door for some programs that won't even look at you without a usmle score.

Thoughts?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Have the 5 auditions place historically taken applicants with COMLEX only? If yes, might be worth the gamble. Step 2 alone don't think would help that much, especially only 6 points from failing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Total Bro Doc]

Have the 5 auditions place historically taken applicants with COMLEX only? If yes, might be worth the gamble. Step 2 alone don't think would help that much, especially only 6 points from failing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, all 5 either take a lot of DOs or were historically DO programs that have switched to ACGME. So I guess you'd not report the usmle score and just apply with comlex only? Ill also be applying to IM as a backup plan.
Thoughts?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Have the 5 auditions place historically taken applicants with COMLEX only? If yes, might be worth the gamble. Step 2 alone don't think would help that much, especially only 6 points from failing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, all 5 either take a lot of DOs or were historically DO programs that have switched to ACGME. So I guess you'd not report the usmle score and just apply with comlex only? Ill also be applying to IM as a backup plan.
Thoughts?

Probably because it's step 2. Would make anyone wonder if you didn't take step 1 because you thought you'd fail.

 

[TTPpentad]

Does your dean’s letter include your USMLE scores? I know that some schools report both COMLEX and USMLE scores on the dean’s letter, so it may look bad if you chose not to report and then it shows up on your dean’s letter anyways...

 

[Total Bro Doc]

No it doesn't include it in the deans letter, I am sure since they never ask for it. I'm anticipating comlex to be around 590-610 since that's what my COMSAE scores were and comlex felt identical to COMSAE for me. I keep getting mixed responses and not sure to report or not.

Does your dean’s letter include your USMLE scores? I know that some schools report both COMLEX and USMLE scores on the dean’s letter, so it may look bad if you chose not to report and then it shows up on your dean’s letter anyways...

 

[anthony78001]

As someone with similar stats +/- a few points. My take and advice that I received if you are getting honors and top 1/3 at auditions and are getting good shift evals i would think that speaks volumes and is going to be more important than scores. scores will get you in the door and from there I would personally think that your auditions and SLOEs will mean more and speak to your ability as a resident and contributing to a program. Ive had PDs tell me they didnt care how I did on a written test, they wanted to see us pass, and then he placed much more emphasis on how we performed while on auditions. take that for what its worth im in the same boat as you. im casting very wide net for auditions and hoping for the best. good luck to you!

 

[narcan't]

Everyone approaches the match differently so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I would not submit your USMLE. Your COMLEX is great but your step is way below the average of 243 this year. Especially for EM. I too am applying for EM and have had multiple PDs tell me step 2 holds more weight for them than step 1. Think of it this way, your step score can't really help you but it can definitely hurt you. Apply to programs that accept COMLEX and don't worry about it. As far as if a passing score on USMLE gets you in the door, that's program specific. I would research the programs you are applying to and if it says USMLE required then yeah of course, submit your USMLE to them. But only them. Good luck!!

 

[soccermac42]

But isn't it a violation to not report the USMLE score? I am not sure. I bet all this will change with the merger to just report one score or the other.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

But isn't it a violation to not report the USMLE score? I am not sure. I bet all this will change with the merger to just report one score or the other.

Basically.

I mean, you could choose to not report if you want, but if by any offchance someone finds out you could be cited for a match violation and basically end up without a residency spot.

Plus its a rather unethical thing to do in general. Dont suck.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

It’s actually not a violation.

And it’s not any more unethical than not interviewing someone simply because they will have a DO degree and not an MD.

Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

Actually, according to the AOA

"If you apply to ACGME accredited programs, and you have taken the USMLE, you must report that on your application. If you only apply to AOA accredited programs, you do not have to report the USMLE on your application."

https://osteopathic.org/students/prepping-for-residency/electronic-residency-application-service/


As for whether or not it's unethical to not interview DOs, the ACGME was originally created for MDs. DOs (until 2020) have had their own postgraduate training programmes and have never accepted MDs, so I don't see why it's unethical for allopathic PDs to not want DOs.

On the other hand, OP is applying ACGME, took a test that ACGME applicants have to take, performed poorly and is deliberately hiding it to avoid having to be evaluated and judged on balance against other applicants. I don't know what mental gymnastics you're doing to make it seem okay but that's nowhere remotely within the realm of ethical behaviour. They're screwing over other students (including other DOs) by doing this.

 

[sab3156]

And it’s not any more unethical than not interviewing someone simply because they will have a DO degree and not an MD.

Come on. It is in no way "unethical" for ACGME PDs to avoid interviewing students from osteopathic schools... There are many legitimate reasons why those PDs refuse to interview DOs - including not wanting to risk their program's reputation, presence of highly qualified MD applicants, not wanting to have anything to do with osteopathy, etc. Completely understandable to me.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Actually, according to the AOA

"If you apply to ACGME accredited programs, and you have taken the USMLE, you must report that on your application. If you only apply to AOA accredited programs, you do not have to report the USMLE on your application."

https://osteopathic.org/students/prepping-for-residency/electronic-residency-application-service/


As for whether or not it's unethical to not interview DOs, the ACGME was originally created for MDs. DOs (until 2020) have had their own postgraduate training programmes and have never accepted MDs, so I don't see why it's unethical for allopathic PDs to not want DOs.

On the other hand, OP is applying ACGME, took a test that ACGME applicants have to take, performed poorly and is deliberately hiding it to avoid having to be evaluated and judged on balance against other applicants. I don't know what mental gymnastics you're doing to make it seem okay but that's nowhere remotely within the realm of ethical behaviour. They're screwing over other students (including other DOs) by doing this.

sweet lord, we have been over this again and again. AOA isn't NRMP and has zero say in what is a match violation. And I know you have been told this before.
As long as the score is reported but not 'assigned' all is legal. He has to disclose the score if someone asks, but he doesn't have to assign it. No ethical dilemma. Its the same thing as leaving a publication off your app cause its not in a field of interest. Or not assigning a LOR that you ended up not needing.

Seriously stop gunning for real. Your straight trying to sabotage people.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

sweet lord, we have been over this again and again. AOA isn't NRMP and has zero say in what is a match violation. And I know you have been told this before.
As long as the score is reported but not 'assigned' all is legal. He has to disclose the score if someone asks, but he doesn't have to assign it. No ethical dilemma. Its the same thing as leaving a publication off your app cause its not in a field of interest. Or not assigning a LOR that you ended up not needing.

Seriously stop gunning for real. Your straight trying to sabotage people.

And who told you this? Some other MS4? Taking and omitting the scores of a medical licensing exam is not the same thing as choosing to leave a publication off.

Dude I'm a resident - I have zero need to gun anyone I literally matched 2 cycles ago. But some of you lot are giving pretty reprehensible advice.

 

[anthony78001]

i would say apply super broadly regardless if you report or not. i personally think this isnt the time to pinch pennies if you can afford it. hit up all the historical DO places that are ACGME accredited you can also hit up dual accredited places and apply to them in the aoa and acgme match

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If you take a board exam, I'd report it, although in this case, since you didn't take step 1, programs may not figure it out. But when I'm interviewing someone in November or December, and they have a step 1 or COMLEX 1 score posted, but no reported step 2 score, I know they are hiding something. Programs aren't stupid. I ask them about the score and magically they are able to tell me what they got. I immediately discount those candidates as being dishonest.