Applying for advanced positions for 2013

[Solarium]

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I'm applying for "out-of-the-match" positions on ERAS for July, 2013. Are all the advanced positions on the check boxes for 2014? How will I know which programs have 2013 advanced positions?

 

[viper930]

I'm applying for "out-of-the-match" positions on ERAS for July, 2013. Are all the advanced positions on the check boxes for 2014? How will I know which programs have 2013 advanced positions?

wat

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I'm applying for "out-of-the-match" positions on ERAS for July, 2013. Are all the advanced positions on the check boxes for 2014? How will I know which programs have 2013 advanced positions?

It's very confusing this year, because the rules have changed. This is the first "all-in" match.

So: If an advanced program is using the match, all positions to start either July 2013 OR July 2014 will be in the match. The 2014 positions will be advanced. The 2013 positions will be Categorical. This sounds somewhat crazy, but really Categorical = starts 2013 and Advanced = starts 2014.

Therefore, unlike prior years, you should have to match into an anesthesia spot in 2013. If you get an out-of-match position, you must start work by Feb 1. Anything after that is not allowed, must be put into the match. Note that if you match into a position for July 2013, nothing stops the program from actually starting you earlier. That's why the cutoff is Feb 1 -- you could match in mid-March, and if free and the program agrees you could start in April.

Now, it's quite possible that PD's will not understand this, and may continue with business as usual and offer you positions outside the match for 2013. This is a match violation, and the NRMP is going to look at ACGME stats looking for problems like this. I doubt heads will roll this year, but they might.

If a program isn't participating in the match, they can do whatever they want.

 

[Solarium]

It's very confusing this year, because the rules have changed. This is the first "all-in" match.

So: If an advanced program is using the match, all positions to start either July 2013 OR July 2014 will be in the match. The 2014 positions will be advanced. The 2013 positions will be Categorical. This sounds somewhat crazy, but really Categorical = starts 2013 and Advanced = starts 2014.

Therefore, unlike prior years, you should have to match into an anesthesia spot in 2013. If you get an out-of-match position, you must start work by Feb 1. Anything after that is not allowed, must be put into the match. Note that if you match into a position for July 2013, nothing stops the program from actually starting you earlier. That's why the cutoff is Feb 1 -- you could match in mid-March, and if free and the program agrees you could start in April.

Now, it's quite possible that PD's will not understand this, and may continue with business as usual and offer you positions outside the match for 2013. This is a match violation, and the NRMP is going to look at ACGME stats looking for problems like this. I doubt heads will roll this year, but they might.

If a program isn't participating in the match, they can do whatever they want.

So if I'm only interested in applying to programs who offer CA-1 positions starting July 2013, I should click the categorical box? I'm very confused.

Also, I put in a note on the top of my personal statement, in hopes that they will read it stating that I'm looking for a July 2013 CA-1 spot. How will this work?

 

[Solarium]

bump

 

[Solarium]

bump

 

[gutonc]

So if I'm only interested in applying to programs who offer CA-1 positions starting July 2013, I should click the categorical box? I'm very confused.

Also, I put in a note on the top of my personal statement, in hopes that they will read it stating that I'm looking for a July 2013 CA-1 spot. How will this work?

There are no programs in the Match currently looking to fill CA1 spots for next July. All of the CA1 spots in the current match are for 7/2014. The only Gas spots starting next July are categorical programs.

So if you want to find a CA1 spot for next year, you'll need to find a program that's looking to fill a spot that somebody bailed/failed out of. You will not find that on ERAS.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

There are no programs in the Match currently looking to fill CA1 spots for next July. All of the CA1 spots in the current match are for 7/2014. The only Gas spots starting next July are categorical programs.

So if you want to find a CA1 spot for next year, you'll need to find a program that's looking to fill a spot that somebody bailed/failed out of. You will not find that on ERAS.

This is the confusing part. I believe you are incorrect in this. It's a change based upon the all in rule.

In the past, if someone bailed on an anesthesia spot for July 2013, you'd look for an out of match spot.

This year, anesthesia programs must match applicants looking for a CA-1 spot for July 2013. This is a big change from last year. They will list such programs in ERAS and in NRMP as categorical PGY-2 positions.

This can lead to some further confusion, as some anesthesia programs may offer a "categorical PGY-1" match which includes the prelim year.

So, to the OP above, it's very confusing. You'll need to make it very clear that you're looking for a Categorical PGY-2 position to start July 2013. As I mentioned above, it's not clear that PD's will understand the rules this year.

 

[Solarium]

This is the confusing part. I believe you are incorrect in this. It's a change based upon the all in rule.

In the past, if someone bailed on an anesthesia spot for July 2013, you'd look for an out of match spot.

This year, anesthesia programs must match applicants looking for a CA-1 spot for July 2013. This is a big change from last year. They will list such programs in ERAS and in NRMP as categorical PGY-2 positions.

This can lead to some further confusion, as some anesthesia programs may offer a "categorical PGY-1" match which includes the prelim year.

So, to the OP above, it's very confusing. You'll need to make it very clear that you're looking for a Categorical PGY-2 position to start July 2013. As I mentioned above, it's not clear that PD's will understand the rules this year.

This certainly clarify things for me a bit. I did, however, select to NOT opt in the NRMP match, and mentioned that I'm specifically looking for CA-1 positions starting July 2013 as a note on top of my personal statement. Since I'm already doing my PGY-2 year currently at my advanced program, I doubt that I can go through the match again. Correct this if I'm wrong?

Also, I have only applied to programs with both the "categorical" and "advanced" boxes as an option, thinking that only these may possibly offer CA-1 positions starting 2013. What's the likelihood that programs only offering the "categorical" boxes as options will also offer these CA-1 positions?

Thanks again

 

[Solarium]

bump

 

[NotAProgDirector]

This certainly clarify things for me a bit. I did, however, select to NOT opt in the NRMP match, and mentioned that I'm specifically looking for CA-1 positions starting July 2013 as a note on top of my personal statement. Since I'm already doing my PGY-2 year currently at my advanced program, I doubt that I can go through the match again. Correct this if I'm wrong?

Also, I have only applied to programs with both the "categorical" and "advanced" boxes as an option, thinking that only these may possibly offer CA-1 positions starting 2013. What's the likelihood that programs only offering the "categorical" boxes as options will also offer these CA-1 positions?

Thanks again

It doesn't matter that you're in a PGY-2, or a PGY-7 for that matter. You can always re-enter the match.

I'll email the NRMP and see if I can get some clarity on the issue.

 

[Solarium]

It doesn't matter that you're in a PGY-2, or a PGY-7 for that matter. You can always re-enter the match.

I'll email the NRMP and see if I can get some clarity on the issue.

I'm targeting specifically out of the match positions because I don't want to resign my current residency yet. I have however read the NRMP match rules, stating that I would only be required to be in my PGY-2 advanced year for 45 days in order to switch my mind about switching to another specialty. That being said, what are my risks for applying for the NRMP match without notifying my current PD? Would it benefit me to partake in the match over just using ERAS to present my application for programs seeking out of the match residents?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I did get an answer from the NRMP, so let's review that first.

It is true that positions that are traditionally matched as advanced PGY-2, if they become open, need to be filled again in the match the next year. To avoid confusion, the NRMP is creating a new designation for these programs. Categorical PGY-1 programs will be "C", Advanced PGY-2 positions will be "A", and PGY-2 positions to start the year of the match will be "R". So, anyone currently in a PGY-1 who is looking for a Rads/Derm/Neuro/(insert any field which classically matches as a PGY-2 advanced position) would apply for PGY-2 R positions to start July 2013.

Earlier you mentioned that you were currently in your PGY-2 advanced position. If so, you have already exceeded the 45 day rule. You can finish the entire year (perhaps minus a week or two, to move if needed) and start a new program next year -- whether you find a position inside or outside the match.

You can certainly look for an out-of-match position to start immediately. Any program can hire you into a CA-1 position before Feb 1 without a problem. You are welcome to use ERAS for that also (i.e. you can put in your PS that you're interested in a CA-1 position off cycle immediately, or to start July 2013). Of course, you might need to give your program adequate notice, which should be described in your contract.

 

[Solarium]

I did get an answer from the NRMP, so let's review that first.

It is true that positions that are traditionally matched as advanced PGY-2, if they become open, need to be filled again in the match the next year. To avoid confusion, the NRMP is creating a new designation for these programs. Categorical PGY-1 programs will be "C", Advanced PGY-2 positions will be "A", and PGY-2 positions to start the year of the match will be "R". So, anyone currently in a PGY-1 who is looking for a Rads/Derm/Neuro/(insert any field which classically matches as a PGY-2 advanced position) would apply for PGY-2 R positions to start July 2013.

Earlier you mentioned that you were currently in your PGY-2 advanced position. If so, you have already exceeded the 45 day rule. You can finish the entire year (perhaps minus a week or two, to move if needed) and start a new program next year -- whether you find a position inside or outside the match.

You can certainly look for an out-of-match position to start immediately. Any program can hire you into a CA-1 position before Feb 1 without a problem. You are welcome to use ERAS for that also (i.e. you can put in your PS that you're interested in a CA-1 position off cycle immediately, or to start July 2013). Of course, you might need to give your program adequate notice, which should be described in your contract.

I searched every program on ERAS for a "R" designation and couldn't find any.

Also, what you're saying is that I can get an out of the match position only if it starts before Feb 1st 2013, if it starts after that it will have to be through an NRMP match?

Currently, in my ERAS application, I have selected to opt OUT of the NRMP match. Will I have to change this?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I searched every program on ERAS for a "R" designation and couldn't find any.

This doesn't surprise me. Programs don't finalize their rank lists until January, and given that this is all new I expect no one has updated yet. Plus, the NRMP hasn't been very aggressive about this. We shall see.

Also, what you're saying is that I can get an out of the match position only if it starts before Feb 1st 2013, if it starts after that it will have to be through an NRMP match?

That's the way I understand it.

Currently, in my ERAS application, I have selected to opt OUT of the NRMP match. Will I have to change this?

No, not really. No one is going to care what you put there. By the time we get to match / ranking season, everyone will know what you want and what to do (whether it's in or out of the match)

 

[shopsteward]

There's a Chicago program looking for a CA-1 to start July 2013 -

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=13102576#post13102576