applying in ophtho

[123doc]

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just wondering about applying to the very top ophtho programs (mass eye & ear, wilmer, doheny, jules stein, iowa, wills, etc.)

i have almost completed MD/PhD at a top medical school, i have about 14 publications in high-impact journals (most first-authored), honors in all of my clinical rotations, and awesome letters of recommendation. BUT, my USMLE I scores are only a bit above the national average. i am interested in academic medicine, probably in the subspecialty of neuro-op or possibly vitreo-retinal, so that i can eventually combine a clinical practice with basic/clinical neuroscience research.

in this forum, i've read about people asking about their chances for getting great interviews with high USMLE scores and minimal research or mediocre grades, but never the other way around...

so, any advice?

thanks, 123doc

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by 123doc
just wondering about applying to the very top ophtho programs (mass eye & ear, wilmer, doheny, jules stein, iowa, wills, etc.)

i have almost completed MD/PhD at a top medical school, i have about 14 publications in high-impact journals (most first-authored), honors in all of my clinical rotations, and awesome letters of recommendation. BUT, my USMLE I scores are only a bit above the national average. i am interested in academic medicine, probably in the subspecialty of neuro-op or possibly vitreo-retinal, so that i can eventually combine a clinical practice with basic/clinical neuroscience research.

in this forum, i've read about people asking about their chances for getting great interviews with high USMLE scores and minimal research or mediocre grades, but never the other way around...

so, any advice?

thanks, 123doc

123doc,

I was like you. I did fine on the interview trail. Don't sweat it.

Good luck!

 

[Primate]

Our PD and chair have addressed this issue with us. Their take is that the academic programs will very much like to meet with you (MEEI, Wilmer, Scheie, and such). Other, more clinically oriented programs may not even interview you (even if you had a top Step I) - think Wilmer here.

This is what I've heard from on-high, so take it as second hand info. That said, our faculty come from many of these programs and still have contact with colleagues there.

Also, and I think you know this or you're not as smart as you sound 😉 , your application is pretty OK even with a score only slightly above average.

Other opinions about programs?

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by Primate
Our PD and chair have addressed this issue with us. Their take is that the academic programs will very much like to meet with you (MEEI, Wilmer, Scheie, and such). Other, more clinically oriented programs may not even interview you (even if you had a top Step I) - think Wilmer here.

This is what I've heard from on-high, so take it as second hand info. That said, our faculty come from many of these programs and still have contact with colleagues there.

Also, and I think you know this or you're not as smart as you sound 😉 , your application is pretty OK even with a score only slightly above average.

Other opinions about programs?

Priimate is right on, except I think he meant Wills instead of Wilmer in regards to not seeking out MD-PhDs.

 

[Primate]

Originally posted by Ophtho_MudPhud
I think he meant Wills instead of Wilmer in regards to not seeking out MD-PhDs.

Absolutely. Thanks.

 

[chef]

wow, how do you publish 14 first author papers during phd?? how long did it take? that's awesome. was resaerch in virology or bacteriology or something? impressive work.

btw i think you'll do just fine in matching. good luck. you wont need it tho.

 

[chef]

btw i read the posts over again, and i gotta raise a q:

the original poster said he got all HONORS 3rd&4th yr. Only weakness in his app is his step1. but yet both primate and andrew said he wont even probably get an interview at clinically oriented programs like wills.

to me original poster sounds like a wonderful clinican (based on his 3rd yr grades) ON TOP OF having that PhD.

MY CONCERN: do PDs think you are a bad clinician automatically just b/c you are a mdphd? (in other words, is there astereotype of mdphds being lousy clinicians?) if this is true i'll be very sad. I personally think he'll have a great shot at ANY programs, even clinically oriented ones.

 

[phillybabe]

Besides interviews, how do you figure out which programs are clinically oriented? By the surgical volume?

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by chef
btw i read the posts over again, and i gotta raise a q:

the original poster said he got all HONORS 3rd&4th yr. Only weakness in his app is his step1. but yet both primate and andrew said he wont even probably get an interview at clinically oriented programs like wills.

to me original poster sounds like a wonderful clinican (based on his 3rd yr grades) ON TOP OF having that PhD.

MY CONCERN: do PDs think you are a bad clinician automatically just b/c you are a mdphd? (in other words, is there astereotype of mdphds being lousy clinicians?) if this is true i'll be very sad. I personally think he'll have a great shot at ANY programs, even clinically oriented ones.

Chef,

I think there is a bias that MD-PhDs are mediocre clinicians until proven otherwise. PDs want to meet you to make sure you're not a lab rat always wanting to break away from clinic to do experiments. Your first and foremost goal during residency is to be trained clinically.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by phillybabe
Besides interviews, how do you figure out which programs are clinically oriented? By the surgical volume?

This is better judged by what type and volume of research is being done at the institution. If there's minimal to no basic research, then the program is more clinical. You can also look at how much grant funding the ophthalmology pulls in.

 

[Primate]

I don't think that clinically oriented programs o'erlook the CD's because they think we're necessarily bad clinicians (though this may be part of it, in the absence of a whole bunch of honors in rotations). My take is that it's more what kind of practice they want their grads to have. A CD is more likely to do 1/2 day a week of clinic and, horrors, maybe not even any surgery. This is not the kind of doc on whom Wills wants its impramatur. They want to pump out leaders in clinical practice/education (generally - there are always exceptions). So, while a mudphud may be a great clinician, chances are they aren't going to use that talent as voluminously as an MD only.

Indeed, many CDs think the same way and don't consider Wills-type programs seriously if they want to do hardcore research.

This isn't a comment on which way is better, just my thoughts on why who goes where. 😉

 

[123doc]

thanks for all the info.

> wow, how do you publish 14 first author papers during phd??
> how long did it take? that's awesome. was resaerch in virology > or bacteriology or something? impressive work.

research was in neuroscience. phd took just under 3 years. a couple of those publications are case reports from my 3rd year clinical rotations, and one was research from during college.

in response to the clinical vs. research oriented programs, i'd definitely favor a place like wilmer, meei, or jules stein over wills because they seem to stress the importance of research in advancing the field (not that wills doesn't, probably just to a lesser degree)

i am not planning on becoming a PI and running a lab (i don't think...). i do want to be involved in research, but i really love clinical work and i think neuro-ophtho would lend itself to a very interesting clinical practice with some cutting edge research and possibly even some surgury. i really like the idea of being an expert in a specialized field and working closely with neurologists and neurosurgeons on interesting cases at an academic (teaching) hospital.

thanks again for the advice.

 

[Primate]

... meet the chior. 😀

Sounds good to me.

Good luck.