Applying MD/MPH

[ChrisMack390]

There are a handful of topics on this, but they are 5-10 years old, so I thought I'd make a current one...

I am interested in the MPH degree, particularly in public policy and epidemiology research. Is there any reason NOT to apply for the MD/MPH? I think most schools consider the 2 applications separately, so it shouldn't detract from my chances of getting into MD school.

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[SovietDoctor]

Well do you want do anything with your extra degree, or is this just another dipoloma? If you want to incorporate public health into your career, then why not? Otherwise save your money and do an MD.

 

[allantois]

Honestly, med schools are popping out graduates with MPH degrees. In some cases it's actually easier to get into an MD/MPH program (U Miami) than MD program alone. Unless you have a clear objective for getting the degree, it really won't be worth much unless it's from a top school.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Also, you should be aware that internal applications to do an MPH degree once you are accepted MD are incredibly easy. At my institution, it was quoted to me by a trusted source that in the last 5-6 years, only one person in the medical school was not granted admission to the MPH program when applying internally.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Like I said in my OP, I do want it for a real reason not just to have more letters, and I will be applying with some epidemiology research experience. I just don't want to inhibit my chances to get accepted to a regular MD program.

@allantois Miami is on my list regardless, but what makes you say it is easier to get in MD/MPH than MD alone?

 

[ChrisMack390]

Also, you should be aware that internal applications to do an MPH degree once you are accepted MD are incredibly easy. At my institution, it was quoted to me by a trusted source that in the last 5-6 years, only one person in the medical school was not granted admission to the MPH program when applying internally.

This is a good point. But if I'm pretty certain I want to do it now, I may as well apply right?

 

[WedgeDawg]

This is a good point. But if I'm pretty certain I want to do it now, I may as well apply right?

Yeah, but just realize that if you get into an MD and not MD/MPH program, you're likely set as long as the program is also affiliated with an MPH program.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Cool, thank you! Honestly I think applying for it will help me articulate why medicine in some cases.

 

[md-2020]

@allantois Miami is on my list regardless, but what makes you say it is easier to get in MD/MPH than MD alone?

The avg stats for MD MPH at UM are lower than MD only. Though if you look at UG school profile there's hella top schools represented. Take that how you will.

 

[ChrisMack390]

The avg stats for MD MPH at UM are lower than MD only. Though if you look at UG school profile there's hella top schools represented. Take that how you will.

That is strange. I would think it is because they weight relevant experience higher than stats for the MPH program?

 

[md-2020]

That is strange. I would think it is because they weight relevant experience higher than stats for the MPH program?

Probably. If you look at the major(s), UG institution(s), and socioeconomic background, I am led to believe that Miami MD/MPH looks for slightly less "cookie cutter" pre-meds, which makes sense as you'd have to justify your unique interest in the MPH aspect of the program.

 

[LizzyM]

The avg stats for MD MPH at UM are lower than MD only. Though if you look at UG school profile there's hella top schools represented. Take that how you will.

Or it could mean that among the applicants who met the admission standards for Miami and who were admitted as MD applicants, those who chose to apply to (and were admitted) to the MPH had, on average, lower stats than those who did not choose to apply to the MPH. It does not mean that the MD/MPH applicants were admitted using a looser standard.

 

[GrapesofRath]

The avg stats for MD MPH at UM are lower than MD only. Though if you look at UG school profile there's hella top schools represented. Take that how you will.

http://admissions.med.miami.edu/md-programs/general-md/class-profile

Is that the link above you are referencing to?

4 WASHU
1 Yale
2 Vandy
3 Penn
1 MIT
2 JHU
1 Duke
4 Emory
1 Claremont McKenna
1 Rice

Out of 147 that's around 20 matriculants from top schools give or take(you can be generous and include another few schools as top like Notre Dame if you want). Not exactly what I'd call major representation from top schools unless I'm missing something, that seems pretty standard honestly.

Noen of this is really relevant btw, I was just asking more out of curiosity.

 

[md-2020]

Or it could mean that among the applicants who met the admission standards for Miami and who were admitted as MD applicants, those who chose to apply to (and were admitted) to the MPH had, on average, lower stats than those who did not choose to apply to the MPH. It does not mean that the MD/MPH applicants were admitted using a looser standard.

The profile for 2018 online said that over 7000 people applied, though. I'm sure plenty of top stats kids would have liked to get in, no?

 

[md-2020]

http://admissions.med.miami.edu/md-programs/general-md/class-profile

Is that the link above you are referencing to?

4 WASHU
1 Yale
2 Vandy
3 Penn
1 MIT
2 JHU
1 Duke
4 Emory
1 Claremont McKenna
1 Rice

Out of 147 that's around 20 matriculants from top schools give or take(you can be generous and include another few schools as top like Notre Dame if you want). Not exactly what I'd call major representation from top schools unless I'm missing something, that seems pretty standard honestly.

Noen of this is really relevant btw, I was just asking more out of curiosity.

That's general MD, I'm referring to MD-MPH.

http://admissions.med.miami.edu/md-programs/md-mph-program/class-profile

 

[LizzyM]

The profile for 2018 online said that over 7000 people applied, though. I'm sure plenty of top stats kids would have liked to get in, no?

I don't know how their decisions work but if the MD committee made its decisions first and then the MPH committee makes its decisions regarding people who had already made it through the MD committee, then choosing MD/MPH will not improve your chances except to the extent that the MD committee values applicants with an interest in public health.

 

[WedgeDawg]

That's general MD, I'm referring to MD-MPH.

http://admissions.med.miami.edu/md-programs/md-mph-program/class-profile

Still only like 1/3 of them are from top schools.

 

[allantois]

I don't know how their decisions work but if the MD committee made its decisions first and then the MPH committee makes its decisions regarding people who had already made it through the MD committee, then choosing MD/MPH will not improve your chances except to the extent that the MD committee values applicants with an interest in public health.

They have two separate processes for MD and MD/MPH as many students (if not most) are only given a choice to matriculate into the MD/MPH program.

 

[GrapesofRath]

What would be considered a "high" proportion of matriculants to be from top schools for a particular class?

I looked up a couple class profiles from "medium" tier type schools. I didn't add up the proportion of top school matriculants or anything like that, but I wonder if this is standard

Hofstra
http://medicine.hofstra.edu/admission/admission_meetourstudents.html

Ohio State
http://medicine.osu.edu/pdfs/admissions/Entering Class Profile.pdf

Einstein
http://www.einstein.yu.edu/education/md-program/admissions/default.aspx?id=35350

Rochester
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/medialibraries/urmcmedia/education/md/documents/2017-profile.pdf

 

[ChrisMack390]

This UM stuff all seems like it's really just a coincidence. It doesn't make any sense for them to intentionally lower their standards for the dual degree.

In any case, seems like everyone agrees that it can't hurt me to apply MD/MPH, so I'm going to go for it!

 

[WedgeDawg]

Hofstra is a prestige-***** school, so that's not surprising.

The trend I've noticed is a lot of decent top school applicants go to mid tier medical schools, so I'm not overall surprised by anything in grapes' post. USC-Keck is the same way.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Hofstra is a prestige-***** school, so that's not surprising.

The trend I've noticed is a lot of decent top school applicants go to mid tier medical schools, so I'm not overall surprised by anything in grapes' post. USC-Keck is the same way.

Well are those stats for those schools considered surprising or considered a "high" proportion of top school applicants? I honestly don't know that's why I was asking lol

Hofstra always gets that rep but I'm not sure if you can really say one way or another. There are a ton of lower tier small name schools on that list and the bigger thing is Hofstra's close to 60% IS matriculants. Now you can't tell where specifically IS matriculants went to UG, but I'm willing to guess a fair number of them went to these New York schools that aren't necessarily top tier.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Well are those stats for those schools considered surprising or considered a "high" proportion of top school applicants? I honestly don't know that's why I was asking lol

Hofstra always gets that rep but I'm not sure if you can really say one way or another. There are a ton of lower tier small name schools on that list and the bigger thing is Hofstra's close to 60% IS matriculants. Now you can't tell where specifically IS matriculants went to UG, but I'm willing to guess a fair number of them went to these New York schools that aren't necessarily top tier.

True, but from what I've seen, NY also has a disproportionately high percentage of representation at Ivy League undergrads (which may also be due to the fact that it has both Columbia and Cornell, but even at the other ones, there are a huge number of people from NY).

 

[LizzyM]

I find the Miami data very confusing... do they really have 7667 applicants to the MD/MPH separate from the 8,291 who apply to MD. That seems out of the ordinary. I think that almost everyone "checks the box" and the likelihood of an offer is less (proportionally) for MD/MPH than for MD.

 

[Krupke]

I find the Miami data very confusing... do they really have 7667 applicants to the MD/MPH separate from the 8,291 who apply to MD. That seems out of the ordinary. I think that almost everyone "checks the box" and the likelihood of an offer is less (proportionally) for MD/MPH than for MD.

I don't think they are separate. But there are plenty of people who wouldn't want a MPH getting in the way of basic science research and other people (like me) who selected MD/MPH only.

 

[LizzyM]

MD/MPH
applicants interviews matriculant admitted applicants
Florida 1,973 47 10 0.51%
Out-of-State 5,694 124 38 0.67%
Total 7,667 171 48 0.63%

MD applicants interviews matriculant admitted applicants
Florida 2,136 234 61 2.86%
Out-of-State 6,155 343 86 1.40%
Total 8,291 577 147 1.77%


This table isn't great but what it shows is that MD/MPH admits a smaller proportion of applicants than the MD-only and your chances of being admitted as an out of state applicant are better applying MD only than MD/MPH but the likelihood of being admitted to the MD/MPH is actually better for OOS than for in-state applicants.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

MD/MPH
applicants interviews matriculant admitted applicants
Florida 1,973 47 10 0.51%
Out-of-State 5,694 124 38 0.67%
Total 7,667 171 48 0.63%

MD applicants interviews matriculant admitted applicants
Florida 2,136 234 61 2.86%
Out-of-State 6,155 343 86 1.40%
Total 8,291 577 147 1.77%


This table isn't great but what it shows is that MD/MPH admits a smaller proportion of applicants than the MD-only and your chances of being admitted as an out of state applicant are better applying MD only than MD/MPH but the likelihood of being admitted to the MD/MPH is actually better for OOS than for in-state applicants.

Hi LizzyM (omg I can't believe I'm actually talking with THE LizzyM!!)

Based on these stats, what would you advise a student who got into both programs? I'm in this situation, and am completely stuck in making a decision. I don't want to hold a seat that could go to someone else, so I feel terrible for having this much trouble deciding.

Do you think that students who do Md/MPH programs have the same strength in the MD part as their MD only peers do?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Hi LizzyM (omg I can't believe I'm actually talking with THE LizzyM!!)

Based on these stats, what would you advise a student who got into both programs? I'm in this situation, and am completely stuck in making a decision. I don't want to hold a seat that could go to someone else, so I feel terrible for having this much trouble deciding.

Do you think that students who do Md/MPH programs have the same strength in the MD part as their MD only peers do?

You holding a seat right now won't take away a seat from someone else, so don't worry about that until the deadline to hold only one acceptance (which is in the spring).

MD students and MD/MPH students get exactly the same MD education, so there won't be any difference in the "strength" of their MD.

 

[Cytarabine]

There are a handful of topics on this, but they are 5-10 years old, so I thought I'd make a current one...

I am interested in the MPH degree, particularly in public policy and epidemiology research. Is there any reason NOT to apply for the MD/MPH? I think most schools consider the 2 applications separately, so it shouldn't detract from my chances of getting into MD school.

I would encourage you to complete the MPH later in your career. You can potentially get it paid for, and you're in a much better position to immediately start applying what you're learning

 

[LizzyM]

I would encourage you to complete the MPH later in your career. You can potentially get it paid for, and you're in a much better position to immediately start applying what you're learning

On the other hand, if you wait, you don't have the research skills going into residency that can help secure a highly desirable fellowship and so forth. As with many things, there are tradeoffs.

 

[Cytarabine]

On the other hand, if you wait, you don't have the research skills going into residency that can help secure a highly desirable fellowship and so forth. As with many things, there are tradeoffs.

Something to consider, though I would probably only weigh that significantly if the masters concentration is biostats or epi. I would also strongly consider the strength of the masters program at whichever md you apply to. Securing a competitive fellowship is still a fair bit downstream from med school to invest potentially a year of your time & tuition / CoL. Feasible to take a gap year during residency should that extra boost develop into a perceived need

 

[LizzyM]

Miami is a 4 year program so there is no additional CoL or an additional year.

 

[Cytarabine]

Miami is a 4 year program so there is no additional CoL or an additional year.

My perspective comes from having done a combined program with the gap year. My concern with a 4 year program would be the extra work load on top of med school, but the significance of that would depend on how they broke the curriculum up and individual ability / priority. Can't comment from 1st hand experience there

 

[ChrisMack390]

I think in pure terms of cost the MD/MPH makes the most sense as its usually a slight increase in tuition in many (most?) cases can be done in the regular 4 years.

The only thing that is holding me back is the potential opportunity cost. For example not being able to do as many selectives because of the public health classes.