Applying on September 15 with not enough LORs

[Peach Newport]

How screwed will I be if I submit my ERAS application on September 15 with only 2 LORs? The idea is that I would need to wait until the end of september-november to get the final letter. I was an idiot and didn't ask my preceptors for LORs. I have no idea how I'm going to get them now.

I don't actually know how the residency application process works so I'm going to sound like an idiot, but considering it's not on a rolling basis, shouldn't I be OK if I don't actually have all my LORs in until november?

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[ciestar]

Major problem, IMO.

No, it isnt rolling, but interview slots are given out early. I rotated with a kid who applied late and got one interview.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Moderately screwed, but if you wait until November? Quite screwed.

Interviews are offered on a rolling basis. Depending on your field, some programs will give out almost/all of their spots by early October. I would be quite surprised if a program offered a student with just two LORs an interview.

You will likely be hurt if you don't have all four (not three) of your letters before October 1st (MSPE release), but if they're up by then, you should still get interviews. After Oct 1st, all bets are off.

You need to figure out a way to get your remaining letters ASAP. Contact the chair of your specialty of choice's program.

 

[ortnakas]

Not as good as applying September 15 with 3 letters.

Infinitely better than waiting to apply in November.

 

[Peach Newport]

Moderately screwed, but if you wait until November? Quite screwed.

Interviews are offered on a rolling basis. Depending on your field, some programs will give out almost/all of their spots by early October. I would be quite surprised if a program offered a student with just two LORs an interview.

You will likely be hurt if you don't have all four (not three) of your letters before October 1st (MSPE release), but if they're up by then, you should still get interviews. After Oct 1st, all bets are off.

You need to figure out a way to get your remaining letters ASAP. Contact the chair of your specialty of choice's program.

Wait, 4 letters? I didn't know I needed 4, most programs say 3. Is this some unwritten rule that you actually need 4? Every website i've seen says 3.

 

[Peach Newport]

Also, is it a bad thing to have 2 letters that don't actually specify the field I'm applying for?

 

[mrbreakfast]

Is this some unwritten rule that you actually need 4?

You don't NEED 4, but I don't know a single person who didn't use all 4 spots. This is just my personal opinion but I think you'd really want to use them all. I mean, people dual-applying are collecting 8 letters, and the gunners are getting program-specific letters; you can get 4. Think back through all your clinicals for any preceptors you really clicked with, and reach out now.

Also, is it a bad thing to have 2 letters that don't actually specify the field I'm applying for?

Yes, unless/perhaps even if that field is FM. You can always ask your letter-writers to edit their letters.


Overall, letters have a strong impact on an application. You've got an opportunity to list people who are willing to go to bat for you. It's one of the best ways to show off your subjective skills. In that view, I would argue you want the maximum number of letters you can use, mostly/all from people in the field that you're applying to, all of which specifically state that you'd be an excellent resident in X specialty.

 

[ciestar]

And you’ll have to be okay with getting a LOR from an attending you worked only a week with. I had to from my sub-i.

 

[ndafife]

You've had how long to get this ready knowing September 15th is the day?

Interview invites are insane for residency. People give their email logins to friends/family/etc... to make sure that they can respond to interviews within seconds so that they can get a spot before they fill up. And you want to wait how long to apply? After how many programs have filled their slots?

Find someone to write you a letter and submit September 15th.

This isn't applying to med school where you can apply in August or whatever. You NEED to submit September 15th.

 

[ciestar]

You've had how long to get this ready knowing September 15th is the day?

Interview invites are insane for residency. People give their email logins to friends/family/etc... to make sure that they can respond to interviews within seconds so that they can get a spot before they fill up. And you want to wait how long to apply? After how many programs have filled their slots?

Find someone to write you a letter and submit September 15th.

This isn't applying to med school where you can apply in August or whatever. You NEED to submit September 15th.

I mentioned this before. I know someone who waited until October 15th to apply because they failed CK the first time and waited for a passing score to apply (and no CS at that point either). Needless to say, one interview. Had to SOAP into a field I know they didn’t want.

 

[ScubaV]

And if you're applying to multiple specialties or have any doubts about your letter writers you may want to contact the ERAS people to confirm your LoRs. I got screwed by them because I had a radiologist who wrote that I was applying for radiology even though I asked him for a general letter. I only applied to pathology programs and so whoever reviews that stuff withheld the letter and didn't tell me. I only found out because a residency program contacted me and said we'd like to offer you an interview, but we require three letters and you only have two.

I called ERAS to complain and they basically said "Sorry, you should've gotten a letter informing you. Oh well."

 

[GoSpursGo]

Get 3 letters ready by 9/15. If you have to email preceptors from months ago to see if they remember you and would write a letter, or if you need to get a department chair letter, do that.

It may not be the greatest letter in the world, but it's a massive massive problem to not have a complete application on 9/15.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Reviewing your past postings, it appears you're a DO with a great S1 score. If you're applying for traditionally ACGME spots (recognizing that this cycle will be a joint process) then you want your letters ready right at the beginning. Get 3 letters now. If you have some great rotation in Sept and then want to add a 4th letter in the end Sept / early Oct, that's totally fine (and a great idea if you have an away rotation at an ACGME program, for example)

 

[Peach Newport]

Reviewing your past postings, it appears you're a DO with a great S1 score. If you're applying for traditionally ACGME spots (recognizing that this cycle will be a joint process) then you want your letters ready right at the beginning. Get 3 letters now. If you have some great rotation in Sept and then want to add a 4th letter in the end Sept / early Oct, that's totally fine (and a great idea if you have an away rotation at an ACGME program, for example)

My big problem is that all my preceptors are ignoring my emails. I don't really know what the next step is at this point. My school has *no* advising and throughout 3rd year I was listening to 4th years who told me not to ask for LORs until I knew which field I was applying for... and now I'm at that point and no one's responding to my emails.

 

[GoSpursGo]

My big problem is that all my preceptors are ignoring my emails. I don't really know what the next step is at this point. My school has *no* advising and throughout 3rd year I was listening to 4th years who told me not to ask for LORs until I knew which field I was applying for... and now I'm at that point and no one's responding to my emails.

While it's unfortunate that you had bad advice, there's no sense in whining about it now--all of your reasons for not having your LORs won't change the fact that you will be at a distinct disadvantage if you don't figure this out. You've got two months, that is plenty of time to work this out. If your old preceptors aren't responding, then hopefully you have an elective now or next month where you could get a letter. Failing that, ask the chairman of your prospective specialty to write you a chairman letter. Failing that, then just get ANY 3rd letter you can get, even if it's from someone not in your specialty, just so your app can be complete on day 1 and then add another letter later on.

The golden rule of applying is don't apply late--so do whatever it takes to not fall into that trap.

 

[Peach Newport]

While it's unfortunate that you had bad advice, there's no sense in whining about it now--all of your reasons for not having your LORs won't change the fact that you will be at a distinct disadvantage if you don't figure this out. You've got two months, that is plenty of time to work this out. If your old preceptors aren't responding, then hopefully you have an elective now or next month where you could get a letter. Failing that, ask the chairman of your prospective specialty to write you a chairman letter. Failing that, then just get ANY 3rd letter you can get, even if it's from someone not in your specialty, just so your app can be complete on day 1 and then add another letter later on.

The golden rule of applying is don't apply late--so do whatever it takes to not fall into that trap.

Unfortunately I've been considering every angle and I've exhausted alot of my options. My elective rotations wouldn't be able to get me a letter until at least 1-2 weeks after Sep. 15. My school doesn't have chairmen of any specialty. I'm at the "any 3rd letter" point, but all the doctors who would make any logical sense to get a letter from are silent. What is the etiquette for following up with preceptors who don't respond to emails?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Unfortunately I've been considering every angle and I've exhausted alot of my options. My elective rotations wouldn't be able to get me a letter until at least 1-2 weeks after Sep. 15. My school doesn't have chairmen of any specialty. I'm at the "any 3rd letter" point, but all the doctors who would make any logical sense to get a letter from are silent. What is the etiquette for following up with preceptors who don't respond to emails?

Send follow up emails weekly. Try calling their office.

If need be, choose someone who DOESN'T make logical sense. Better to have a complete app and have the person reviewing it think, "strong app, even if this last letter is kinda weird," than for them not even to review it because it's on hold because your app isn't complete.

 

[ndafife]

Unfortunately I've been considering every angle and I've exhausted alot of my options. My elective rotations wouldn't be able to get me a letter until at least 1-2 weeks after Sep. 15. My school doesn't have chairmen of any specialty. I'm at the "any 3rd letter" point, but all the doctors who would make any logical sense to get a letter from are silent. What is the etiquette for following up with preceptors who don't respond to emails?

Have you tried talking to any of them in person?

 

[Peach Newport]

Have you tried talking to any of them in person?

No, because they're all at least a 45 minute drive away from me at various hospitals, but I might be getting to that point. Is it considered rude to ask in person after they didn't respond to an email or two?

 

[ndafife]

No, because they're all at least a 45 minute drive away from me at various hospitals, but I might be getting to that point. Is it considered rude to ask in person after they didn't respond to an email or two?

I have exclusively asked in person for recommendation letters going back to undergrad. Emails are too easy to get lost in the shuffle.

Make sure you're not showing up in the middle of a busy clinic day but if you've rotated with these people you should have an idea what time they are going to be likely more available. Show up with a personal statement and your CV and be ready to email it to them if needed.

 

[mrbreakfast]

I'm at the "any 3rd letter" point, but all the doctors who would make any logical sense to get a letter from are silent.

Is there a reason to think these people don't want to write you a letter? If not, call dept secretary and set up a meeting. I would also recommend setting up all letters of recommendation in person (which I did), and not worrying about being "rude" - we're talking about your future career here.