Applying this Cycle?

[sortaconfused123]

This is my first time posting on here, so I'm sorry if this is the wrong place or format. I'm wondering whether I should apply for med school this cycle or the next, but I'm unsure if my age when applying (19) would put me at a disadvantage. I'm hoping to go straight to med school out of undergrad, but I would reconsider if applying this cycle will significantly hurt my chances at getting into a decent school. I'm not aiming for T10's or anything like that, but I want to get into a school on the West Coast (near home) if possible. I've heard med schools prefer older applicants with more life experience, and I'd like to get an idea of how much that could affect my chances if I apply.

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[JAK2-STAT3]

If you apply next cycle (so one gap year) your gap year will not really be "building your application" because you'll presumably graduate in May 2025, apply soon after, and start a gap year job around the same time, meaning those hours will be projected and not weighted as heavily. I'm not an adcom so I won't comment on the age issue, but I would encourage you to take a gap year. A year of being an adult in the real world can only help you.

I honestly think I enjoy being in school more than I'd enjoy any full-time clinical or nonclinical job anyways.

Fair enough, but remember that many of your future patients will have never had the opportunity to think this way. For many, working to make ends meet is the only option. If nothing else, think of a gap year as something that will give you a sliver of insight into what life is like for the majority of your future patients. That year will fly by, I promise.

 

[ablanco]

First of all, hard to say without MCAT. Anecdotally, I know some west coast stat studs who skipped grades and graduated early who got nothing this cycle. It seems that taking a gap year to gain some life experience is more common these days as average matriculant age increases. Could be fine though. I'd try to keep my school choices in consideration with EC hours from just college unless it was something you were really involved in HS that you continued (even then, unsure). I'd wait for adcom members to chime in before you fully consider my thoughts.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Welcome to the forums.

Typically you should apply in your summer after junior year. If you are applying early assurance, read below.

Applying Earlier? Health Professions Admissions through Early Assurance - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

Have you taken Casper or PREview? I doubt it, but you will need to plan taking these exams (depending on who requires them) or similar exams. Most people who have more life experience tend to do better, though you probably could do well if you have strong decision-making skills.

Casper and PREview Insights: 2023 SJT Experience Survey - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.

www.studentdoctor.net

I'm hoping to go straight to med school out of undergrad, but I would reconsider if applying this cycle will significantly hurt my chances at getting into a decent school. I'm not aiming for T10's or anything like that, but I want to get into a school on the West Coast (near home) if possible. I've heard med schools prefer older applicants with more life experience, and I'd like to get an idea of how much that could affect my chances if I apply. Also, please let me know if there are any other weaknesses in my application that an extra year would help with.

Thanks for reading! I'd really appreciate any insight.

Have you talked with the admissions teams at the schools located closest to you? What have they told you? What has your prehealth advising team at your university told you? Are you part of a mentoring organization for applicants from historically marginalized communities? There are many of them for California.

Presuming your MCAT is solid, your success is up to your school list and your mission fit. I don't quite get a mission fit from what you have, but you have strong experiences planned. Part-time teaching in an elementary school... noting that every premed does teaching/tutoring/mentoring so it doesn't help you stand out... why not be a teacher as there is a dire need for good, dedicated teachers? You have over 2000 hours in teaching/tutoring/mentoring, which is more than any of the other clinical or unrelated community service activities you have listed. Where you have spent time outside of class is where your passion lies, and it doesn't say "physician" to me as it stands.

You have more than sufficient shadowing hours (160) and not sure if any of it is in primary care. You need more clinical experience; EMT for 250 hours... should be doing THIS part-time (up to 1000 hours), not part-time teaching IMO.

And take the MCAT after you finish biochem. It's foolish to leave points on the table if you haven't even taken the foundational courses for the exam. Your score is your score, and if you get a 518 without biochem, no school cares that "I didn't take biochem when I took the MCAT... I could have gotten a better score."

This is not a race to get to medical school. Yes, we can obsess over the appeal of getting paid an attending's salary at the end, but there's no urgency to get into medical school.

 

[LizzyM]

Don't apply until you have the best application you could have. Take the MCAT after taking biochem. Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy of believing that you've already paid for it and would lose that money. A low MCAT score will stick like chewing gum on your shoe. Hold off and take it after you have completed all the requirements.

Working for a year is a great way to get some real world experience that you will find invaluable. It also helps to get out of your academic bubble and work along side people who are different from yourself in age and life-experience. This is particularly true if you have not had a job interacting with the public and /or working with adults who have not attended college.

 

[sortaconfused123]

First of all, hard to say without MCAT. Anecdotally, I know some west coast stat studs who skipped grades and graduated early who got nothing this cycle. It seems that taking a gap year to gain some life experience is more common these days as average matriculant age increases. Could be fine though. I'd try to keep my school choices in consideration with EC hours from just college unless it was something you were really involved in HS that you continued (even then, unsure). I'd wait for adcom members to chime in before you fully consider my thoughts.

My activity that is from both high school and college is hospice volunteering (direct patient care - feeding, bathing, caring for patients), with about 100 hours from high school and 350 from college. I was told that clinical experience could be included even if it is from high school, but is that incorrect? Is there some way I should only highlight the hours completed in college?

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hello,

This is my first time posting on here, so I'm sorry if this is the wrong place or format. I'm a sophomore in undergrad right now, and I'm wondering whether I should apply for med school this cycle or the next. I'm planning on graduating a year early, so applying this cycle would mean I go straight to med school without any gap years. I feel ready to apply, but I'm unsure if my age when applying (19) would put me at a disadvantage.

Demographics:
- Science GPA : 4.0 Overall GPA: 4.0 (might change after this semester haha)
- Ethnicity: ORM (Asian F)
- Clinical Work Hours: ~250 hours (EMT)
- Clinical Volunteering: ~800 hours (split between hospice volunteer & MA/scribe) from high school & college
- Shadowing: 160 hours (between 3 specialties)
- Non-clinical volunteering: 2000+ hours (main experience involving tutoring/mentorship for underserved community, other volunteer activities here and there)
- Leadership: created previously mentioned tutoring/mentorship organization, 1 leadership position in a club on campus, 1 year as resident assistant, future job starting in fall 2024 as a part-time teacher at an underserved elementary school
- Research: ~950 hours - 3 semesters of wet lab neuro research which I'm no longer doing, 2 semesters of clinical research with co-author pub in review and 2nd author abstract (1 oral presentation at a regional conference & 1 poster presentation at one of my undergrad college's conferences), 1 summer research program that ties into my narrative really well
- Extracurriculars: some sports I've been practicing as a hobby since elementary school, nothing major
- MCAT: Studying right now. Taking in mid-April. Landed around 516-518 with first few practice exams but hoping to push it up to 520+ in the next month by test date since I'm mostly losing points to general knowledge gaps from not having taken biochem previously

I know it probably doesn't make sense why I want to apply now instead of taking a gap year or studying abroad. But I just don't want to have to worry about building my application for an extra year. I don't enjoy research enough to want to do it full time, and I honestly think I enjoy being in school more than I'd enjoy any full-time clinical or nonclinical job anyways. Even if I were to take a gap year, at best it would add a few hundred more clinical/volunteering hours and a few more posters to my application.

So I'm hoping to go straight to med school out of undergrad, but I would reconsider if applying this cycle will significantly hurt my chances at getting into a decent school. I'm not aiming for T10's or anything like that, but I want to get into a school on the West Coast (near home) if possible. I've heard med schools prefer older applicants with more life experience, and I'd like to get an idea of how much that could affect my chances if I apply. Also, please let me know if there are any other weaknesses in my application that an extra year would help with.

Thanks for reading! I'd really appreciate any insight.

If you enjoy being in school more than clinical or non-clinical work, why are you aiming to be a physician and not an academic ? And why shorten your time in school by graduating early? (Yes I know it costs money and there is an opportunity cost too.)

I do think that applying at your age will put you at a disadvantage in the application process. As others have pointed out an additional year of life experience, especially if it's outside of academia, would give you perspective and experience that you just don't have now and that increasing numbers of your competition (other applicants) do have.

Your academic stats are excellent.

 

[sortaconfused123]

You have more than sufficient shadowing hours (160) and not sure if any of it is in primary care. You need more clinical experience; EMT for 250 hours... should be doing THIS part-time (up to 1000 hours), not part-time teaching IMO.

Thanks so much for the detailed response. I haven't taken Casper or PREview yet, but I am planning on taking them in May after my MCAT. Most of the schools I'm looking into don't require them so I'm not too worried about that though. As for my mission fit, I have a non-stem major that ties into my health economics summer research program and my current clinical research. I am also working as an EMT and have a strong interest in emergency medicine because of it, but I agree that my narrative isn't anything special.

I definitely also agree that 250 clinical hours is on the lower end, but do my clinical volunteering hours not count? I have about 800 additional hours split between volunteering and working, both of which were direct patient care, which adds up to over 1000, but as these are unpaid positions I'm not sure if they hold the same weight. I can still pull out of the part-time teaching role and commit more hours to clinical experience if that would help.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Clinical Volunteering: ~800 hours (split between hospice volunteer & MA/scribe) from high school & college

On your question about direct patient care: it's okay, but count only your post-high school hours. For me, I'm okay with the hours but just want the details of your responsibilities.

You should include your tutoring/teaching; most prehealth students do it, and you'll probably do more when you are a medical student. But you have to convince me you want to do patient care, and you have a purpose to do so. The fact that you created a mentoring organization says something about where you feel you are passionate. Working as a teacher part-time says something. To that end, it is reasonable to ask you why you don't want to be a teacher where you make a difference. Who will take over for your passion project if you don't want to do it? So many 30-year-olds quit teaching even after they had a passion for it. Many doctors will quit patient care after about 10 years or so.

What I don't know is how much of your experiences take you out of your comfort zone. You drop a few breadcrumbs here and there, but you're not talking about it, so I surmise it's not important.

Obviously, nail the MCAT. The question is would you want to apply if you got a 513. Would you be dissatisfied and want to shoot for 520's to apply immediately? What if you got a 508?

 

[sortaconfused123]

Don't apply until you have the best application you could have. Take the MCAT after taking biochem.

Thanks for your advice. I agree that taking biochem before the MCAT would be the best way to go about it, but the timeline I'm on doesn't allow for it. I'll be taking biochemistry my spring semester next year (there are classes only offered in the fall I need to take this coming semester that would conflict with biochem), and even if I push my MCAT to April of next year (the latest I would take it before the next application cycle) I'd only be about 2/3 through the class by the time I take the exam. So I'm mainly debating between taking the MCAT now or in a few months with more content review, haha.

I have been working 20 hours a week as an EMT for the past few months and I plan on continuing for the next year as well. This has been a good source of real world experience and has exposed me to a lot of different people, but it probably can't compare to a year of full time work. I'll keep this in mind, thanks again!

 

[sortaconfused123]

On your question about direct patient care: it's okay, but count only your post-high school hours. For me, I'm okay with the hours but just want the details of your responsibilities.

You should include your tutoring/teaching; most prehealth students do it, and you'll probably do more when you are a medical student. But you have to convince me you want to do patient care, and you have a purpose to do so. The fact that you created a mentoring organization says something about where you feel you are passionate. Working as a teacher part-time says something. To that end, it is reasonable to ask you why you don't want to be a teacher where you make a difference. Who will take over for your passion project if you don't want to do it? So many 30-year-olds quit teaching even after they had a passion for it. Many doctors will quit patient care after about 10 years or so.

What I don't know is how much of your experiences take you out of your comfort zone. You drop a few breadcrumbs here and there, but you're not talking about it, so I surmise it's not important.

Obviously, nail the MCAT. The question is would you want to apply if you got a 513. Would you be dissatisfied and want to shoot for 520's to apply immediately? What if you got a 508?

For the MCAT, I would not apply if I got a 513 or 508--I'd retake and wait until the next cycle. If my practice tests projected numbers similar to those, I would 100% postpone my MCAT and apply the next cycle. I am aiming for 520+, but I would still apply with a 516+, which I think I can achieve if I am consistent with my studying for the next month.

 

[sortaconfused123]

If you enjoy being in school more than clinical or non-clinical work, why are you aiming to be a physician and not an academic ? And why shorten your time in school by graduating early? (Yes I know it costs money and there is an opportunity cost too.)

This is a really good point. I'd say I really enjoy shadowing doctors and would enjoy working as a doctor, but I'm not super interested in working as an EMT or medical assistant full time, so I guess I meant I enjoy being in school more than any pre-med jobs a gap year would entail. I came into college with a lot of credits from high school, so even with a double major and minor, I am set to graduate in 3 years. I can't justify paying another year of tuition and adding a new major/minor just to spend another year in school.

Also, thank you so much for letting me know my age / experience would put me at a disadvantage. I'll keep that in mind when making a decision.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Your responses to my questions makes sense. As you can tell from my response, I do think that a year of growth in the working world will improve your chances of acceptance. Would there be a kind of work that you would find attractive whether clinical or not? Perhaps something in the non-for-profit world?

 

[LizzyM]

What I tried to say is that the timeline you are on could lead to a disaster. If you take the MCAT before you have taken all the pre-reqs, you leave points on the table and will have to apply with a sub-optimal MCAT. You'll get no leeway for having taken the MCAT without the pre-reqs.

If you apply and are not admitted, the timeline we are recommending, with a gap year, is the timeline you'll be on. Not to mention the amount of time, money, and emotion you'll have put into an application that will have its ups and downs. Furthermore, it is difficult, mentally, to plan for the alternative (a gap year) during your application year but you must or you are empty-handed and unmoored as you approach graduation.

Would you rush into marriage because you had to have "a ring by spring"? Don't let the calendar dictate when you will be ready for MCAT and the AMCAS application. Do it right and you'll only need to do it once.

 

[Mammothhighway]

Tbh seems like you would be fine if you wanted to apply this year, depending on how mcat went. I have friends who botched it and some who killed it. Practices are good but it’s hard to give advice without actually having a set score.

I have heard California schools can be a pain but people also say that about most schools, but your app does seem pretty good. I would say do not underestimate the importance of writing well, so make sure you can allocate a lot of prep time while you are still in school.

I don’t know this guy personally, just chatted a few times, but I know of a 19 year old who has seemingly done quite well this cycle. So I do not think age is a huge factor, but it could be one regardless.

Last thing but I think taking a gap year may be nice just to relax and regroup before med school. Gives you time to explore things you like and experience things you may have not done otherwise. But also as someone said, you gap year would be your application year, and projected numbers don’t mean the same as hours that have already happened.

 

[JAK2-STAT3]

If you are worried about your age, you can assuage the potential fears of adcoms by showing them that you have approached this process with maturity and good judgement. What does that look like? Taking the time to do things (like the MCAT) correctly instead of being in a rush.

If you crush the MCAT you could be fine. But that is a gamble where if you lose, you're looking at potentially $1000+ down the drain, a potential MCAT retake, a definite reapplication, needing to do something to show that you've improved your application (since you don't want to spend any more time "building your application" you really don't want this), and all of the emotional stress involved with all of that. Only you can decide whether that gamble is worth it.