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I've seen docs with this attitude too and their team hates working with them.
Applying to both PA and Medical School
Started by CaptainPoopyPants
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I've seen docs with this attitude too and their team hates working with them.
But they are docs and you need to do what they say. That's the bottom line.
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907914
LOL Administration, nursing, and ancillary services are going to eat you ALIVE.
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Okay I am starting to wonder if you are a troll.... which makes me regret spending time to try to sincerely answer your other thread.
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907914
I cannot stand idly by in passively accepting your utter dismissal of the value of the health care team. Just because you have an opinion on a matter does absolutely not mean your are free from the repercussions and/or opposition towards that opinion.
It's pretty obvious he's either a complete troll, or has absolutely no idea what is in store for him when working on a clinical team. Neither of those situations will be fixed by escalating this argument any further. The OPs question has been answered, this thread serves no further purpose.
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907914
The troll vibe didn't hit me until the "Gotta listen to the doctor" post. I agree with you however that future continuation is merely argumentative and doesn't serve a purpose.
Going Incognito
Full Member
You will see that you have no idea what you are talking about now regarding PAs.
Going Incognito
Full Member
Not all medical schools require orgo 2 either. Ugrad physics wasn't a weeder course. At least it wasn't for many people. The Physics for engineering majors is more involved. But, I loved physics. I have a doctorate in one and used to teach college and physics for pre-engineering students.
I think most people would agree that physics is a weeder course. We can choose to split hairs with the coursework but the fact remains PA schools want the GRE and that is nothing like the MCAT.
Do you know what autonomy is? If you don’t, it’s something you get as a doctor.
So then why did you throw a hissy fit, when I was talking about the military lol? Catch 22?
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907914
It is something that NPs can do in 23 states and climbing. It is something that PAs can do save for prescription power in 30+ states and climbing. But even with autonomy and independent practice potential, you would be naive to think that you will not have non-physician staff above you, next to you, and below you in a clinical setting. At that, the notion of a private practice is near dead in today’s health care climate.
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907914
Why are you derailing another thread? And again, you were confrontational in the separate thread as well. In all instances, you are questioning the legitimacy of other persons livelihoods by putting your own thoughts and experiences above those of others. Like...what are you even doing?
Again, no hissy fits. Literally just calling you out.
Just stop man.
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907914
Why even troll? What benefit do you get from trolling? It literally serves no purpose, particularly in what is supposed to be a professional forum
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AnatomyGrey12
Trolling more threads with uneducated opinions I see
Sooooo.... is it cool for me to apply to both or will I get caught and lose credibility?
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AnatomyGrey12
I mean you probably won't get caught, but if you want to be a doctor then you should only apply to medical school. PAs have their place but the roles are different and you need to be ok with that.
Going Incognito
Full Member
OP have you done any shadowing. Have you shadowed a PA and an MD? For either profession, you are going to need to do shadowing.
The word Assistant is a misnomer for a (PA). Some of them do end up seeing complex cases. Sometimes they are the only clinicians at a clinic, although the physician has to be in reach by so many miles for consultation by phone. To have further discussion about the profession go to the Physician Assistant Forums website for a more informative one.
The word Assistant is a misnomer for a (PA). Some of them do end up seeing complex cases. Sometimes they are the only clinicians at a clinic, although the physician has to be in reach by so many miles for consultation by phone. To have further discussion about the profession go to the Physician Assistant Forums website for a more informative one.
Give us some examples.
I witnessed a PA call an ENT about an ER consult case and he said "I don't speak to PA's, put your attending on the phone."
Another doctor said "So and so (a foreign doctor working as an OR assistant) is definitely not a PA...his knowledge base is much greater."
Another doctor I met last week at a meet and greet at my school said "PA's don't know anything."
So tell us or me at least what some of these complex cases are because the doctors I'm around don't seem to think very highly of PA's.
Just an anecdote but at the interview for my DO school, there were some other interviewees in another group in the same seated waiting area for when you were in the “interview half of the group” rather than the “tour half of the group”. I was curious so I went over to talk to them, and asked what they were interviewing for. Turns out they were PA candidates. I guess my point is that they will potentially see you at both even if they don’t have a mechanism to look for that.
I don’t think it’s the worst idea ever to do both in the same cycle, but I wouldn’t apply at the same school.
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deleted939001
Moderation has been implemented for some of the comments in this thread. Please be sure to stay on-topic and remain aware that posting with an intent to inflame others (particularly by disparaging other health care providers) will not be tolerated.
@CaptainPoopyPants There are usually different admissions committees for each healthcare profession office and they usually don't confer or talk about the applicants with each other. Why would they? There are hundreds of qualified applicants who are submitting in applications that the chances are nonexistent that even if two adcoms from the MD/DO & PA school were to talk shop that they would bother to talk about you. It's in a similar vein to medical students who apply to different specialties at the same hospital for match, more often than not different departments do not talk with each other and when they do it's not about specific candidates but more about managerial logistics (Conrad Fischer, Kaplan Video on Applying to Match).
@MemeLord I like how you're trying to be frank by carrying on the conversation, but you're wasting your time writing paragraphs on troll posters who respond with one sentence one liners. Not everyone uses SDN as a resource, this isn't like VBulletin's release in the early 2000s when everyone tried to use community boards to engage in the best conversation possible. More often than not you're going to have degenerates who use this subsection to offload their stress/psychopathy by seeing you get riled up and when you're having a one way conversation you're either wasting your time or you're the only one who is getting off on it.
@Going Incognito To be honest the whole notion with understanding PAs comes completely with entering into the healthcare practice. The whole attitude against PAs is irrational, if they are going to be answering calls then they are going to realize that at some point they are going to run into a resource crunch and make an egregious mistake if they think that they can take care of their patients riding solo. PAs don't need defending and even receiving a forum infraction is the wrong direction because this isn't about disrespecting other healthcare professions, it's about jeopardizing patient safety because someone completely misunderstands the role of a physician assistant who btw is hired by the attendings in the service they practice in because they enable the physician to do their job.
@MemeLord I like how you're trying to be frank by carrying on the conversation, but you're wasting your time writing paragraphs on troll posters who respond with one sentence one liners. Not everyone uses SDN as a resource, this isn't like VBulletin's release in the early 2000s when everyone tried to use community boards to engage in the best conversation possible. More often than not you're going to have degenerates who use this subsection to offload their stress/psychopathy by seeing you get riled up and when you're having a one way conversation you're either wasting your time or you're the only one who is getting off on it.
@Going Incognito To be honest the whole notion with understanding PAs comes completely with entering into the healthcare practice. The whole attitude against PAs is irrational, if they are going to be answering calls then they are going to realize that at some point they are going to run into a resource crunch and make an egregious mistake if they think that they can take care of their patients riding solo. PAs don't need defending and even receiving a forum infraction is the wrong direction because this isn't about disrespecting other healthcare professions, it's about jeopardizing patient safety because someone completely misunderstands the role of a physician assistant who btw is hired by the attendings in the service they practice in because they enable the physician to do their job.
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You should feel free to apply to both programs OP, though I do wonder why someone would apply to both. A career as a PA vs MD is quite different. Better to do some soul searching on which profession truly interests you, and then pursue that. It'll be less stressful, time-consuming and less costly.
Having said that, MDs, PAs, nurses, therapists all work together as a team, and we all play a critical role in patients' care. None of these professions are "better" than the others, but they are different. I also disagree with PAs having less knowledge than MDs -- the experienced ICU PAs in my residency were quite frankly better at ICU management than residents and pulmonology fellows. The pulmonary attendings will also bounce ideas off of them from time to time.
And being a doctor does not give me the authority to talk down to others, nor does it make me immune to repercussions. If I was abusive to my colleagues, my department chair would no doubt hear about it, and I'd be fired with repeat offenses. Simple as that. This isn't the old days when doctors were seen as God and had free reign. The sooner folks recognize this, the better it'll be for them and also their patients.
For what it's worth, if I could do things again, I would have pursued a PA rather than MD.
Having said that, MDs, PAs, nurses, therapists all work together as a team, and we all play a critical role in patients' care. None of these professions are "better" than the others, but they are different. I also disagree with PAs having less knowledge than MDs -- the experienced ICU PAs in my residency were quite frankly better at ICU management than residents and pulmonology fellows. The pulmonary attendings will also bounce ideas off of them from time to time.
And being a doctor does not give me the authority to talk down to others, nor does it make me immune to repercussions. If I was abusive to my colleagues, my department chair would no doubt hear about it, and I'd be fired with repeat offenses. Simple as that. This isn't the old days when doctors were seen as God and had free reign. The sooner folks recognize this, the better it'll be for them and also their patients.
For what it's worth, if I could do things again, I would have pursued a PA rather than MD.
Going Incognito
Full Member
As a physician, I used to hire PAs and have worked with many of them; so I know about their training. And many of them could have gone to medical school, but they chose not to. I just don't hire them anymore because midlevels are too much of a liability, even the experienced ones. Even if they are good for business, I didn't find hiring them to be worth it.
To the OP, I still suggest you visit the PA forums website and shadow both PAs and physicians. There used to be a guy on this forum with the username EMEDPA. But, I don't see him around anymore. Also, primadonna was a physician assistant who became a physician. She is a good contact person.
To the OP, I still suggest you visit the PA forums website and shadow both PAs and physicians. There used to be a guy on this forum with the username EMEDPA. But, I don't see him around anymore. Also, primadonna was a physician assistant who became a physician. She is a good contact person.
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If you want to be a gastroenterologist, I would suggest matriculating to an MD or DO program. Match into an internal medicine residency. Perform research in gastroenterology. Then apply for it.
Did you use different letter writers for your LORs? They try hard, but make lamentable mistakes at times. It's a dead giveaway when an MD program letter reader sees, "I highly recommend this candidate for your Physician Assistant Program." Or, "He/She will be an exemplary addition to any Medical School or Physician Assistant Class."
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907914
When letter writers make those mistakes, do ADCOMs still take the letter seriously? Like one of my LOR writers wrote both a scholarship LOR and a AMCAS LOR. If you read “I recommend MemeLord for scholarship for these accomplishments,” do you still take those accomplishments into consideration?
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@Catalystik Really good point. How many times has thick skin been a needed prerequisite because someone who you walked through the process still managed to be unable to carry out the first step? For me, it's more like the rule than the exception to the rule.
@CaptainPoopyPants The most frustrating thing you will find about LOR letter writers is that they care far less about the process than you do which is precisely why the best practice is to write their letters for them (after getting their approval). A more controversial idea is to ask if they care if you set up a dummy email account so that you can submit the letter you wrote as them. This may actually be fraud or impersonation, if so then do not do this because it is illegal. Imagine though if applicants chose to eliminate the aforementioned risk and stress brought about Catalystik's post that often happens in the application process.
@CaptainPoopyPants The most frustrating thing you will find about LOR letter writers is that they care far less about the process than you do which is precisely why the best practice is to write their letters for them (after getting their approval). A more controversial idea is to ask if they care if you set up a dummy email account so that you can submit the letter you wrote as them. This may actually be fraud or impersonation, if so then do not do this because it is illegal. Imagine though if applicants chose to eliminate the aforementioned risk and stress brought about Catalystik's post that often happens in the application process.
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You don't provide enough parameters for me to judge.
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907914
I guess, in general, if you get a letter that looks like it was sent to the wrong system but is otherwise a good letter and paints the applicant in a good light how is that perceived?
Not as badly as a Secondary that names a specific school that isn't the one receiving the Secondary.
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907914
I'm really glad you changed your original post. Impersonating an LOR writer so you can submit a letter from them is fraud, unethical, and a good way to trigger an AMCAS investigation that would forever ban you from MD schools.
Is this a theoretical question? Did you want to replicate the letter here to get a reliable opinion? I didn't think so.
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907914
It is a theoretical question. I am just curious how it reflects on an applicant if an otherwise good LOR has an error.
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907914
I agree that you are correct that students should not by any means do this as it is unethical, how would schools know? Like, does Interfolio (if used) do an authenticity check? Or is it mostly just reliant upon the school calling the number on the LOR to ask the writer “Did you write this for XXXX MED school applicant?”
Edit: I am trying to come up with some reason that a student would create a dummy email with an authentic letter though....? Nvm maybe? It is fraud regardless.
Depends on the specific situation. If a letter is clearly meant to support a scholarship application, and doesn't address information important to supporting a med school applicant, it's not going to help. It might not be a negative, but it won't be as much of a positive.
Feel free to explore the LOR writers portal on the AAMC website.
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